Brexit: Financial Settlement

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

She has a grip. That grip was demonstrated in her Florence speech, where she set out our negotiating position, which is very strong and fair. Any settlement would of course be denominated in euros as the currency—we recognise that—but that, too, needs to be taken into account as we agree what the final settlement should be as part of the wider negotiations.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister may well have a grip. That is good, but some of us are absolutely fed up to the back teeth of reading, as we did this morning, of two Cabinet Ministers publishing their attack on a third. This is appalling, and something up with which she should not put.

[Lord Bates]

I think my noble friend would recognise that there can be full and frank negotiations in Cabinet between colleagues.

Overseas Development

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

As the noble Lord knows, those contributions are germane because they are very much part of the exit negotiations. We make a substantial contribution and our European colleagues are keen to retain a close relationship with the UK in respect of these things. We therefore want to work closely with them on these matters to see whether that is possible. At the moment, the EDF, to which I referred, is available only to member states, so there would also have to be changes on their side for us to continue.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is not the unfortunate logic of the noble Baroness who spoke from the Liberal Benches that in your anxiety to deprive the rich, you are prepared to further impoverish the poor?

[Lord Bates]

You could construe it in that way, but another, perhaps a little more generous interpretation, would be to look at the case of the BVI. Its population is about 28,000. We follow GNI limits, which are $12,754 for graduating. One billionaire can make a profound distortion to the noted wealth of that country. In the BVI there are some very poor and needy people who lack the resources to rebuild their communities. We are committed to them not only because they are overseas territories but because of our humanitarian commitment.

Public Sector Pay Cap

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

On that specific point, the Institute for Fiscal Studies has reported that public sector workers earn on average 13% more than those in the private sector. Secondly—this is very important—the purpose of the pay review body is to make sure that we continue to attract people into the public services and deal with employment. That is why it is interesting and helpful to note that a public sector pay review body has said:

“We do not see significant short-term nationwide recruitment and retention issues that are linked to pay”.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as one who has from time to time found himself at odds with government policy, will my noble friend tell his colleagues in the Cabinet that we do not expect them to have their debates in public?

[Lord Bates]

I was just about to say that was above my pay grade and then I realised that was probably not the right term to use. The Chancellor set out the policy on public pay in the Budget. That continues to be the case. We listen very carefully to what the review bodies say and watch very carefully to see the impact that has on recruitment. That policy will continue.

Iraq: Displaced Minority Communities

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Yes, I totally agree with that. A coalition of some 68 countries was involved, but a very important aspect, of course, is that the legitimate Government of Iraq are in the lead, and we are working with them. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs is taking the lead on the humanitarian response, and we work through those agencies very effectively to ensure that co-ordination is happening. One reason why it is taking so long is that past lessons learned tell us of the immense dangers to civilians, 750,000 of whom are still trapped in Mosul. We need to ensure they are protected and cared for as this military effort is prosecuted.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that this is a particularly appropriate moment for us to pay tribute to all those gave service—both in Iraq and Afghanistan—because this morning the Queen is unveiling a memorial to all those who have served?

[Lord Bates]

It is absolutely right that we should do that and recognise the 226 British service personnel who gave their lives to build a better Iraq and, of course, the 43 British civilians who also died in that effort. We recognise and pay tribute to their sacrifice today.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting: Human Rights

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord to his post on the Front Bench and I look forward to working with him, particularly in this area. At CHOGM, I will be chairing the round table on LGBT issues. It is absolutely unacceptable in the 21st century that we are still looking at these issues, but we have to do it with sensitivity. We have to work with countries where these are sensitive issues and make sure that we continue to raise them while also working locally on the ground, with grass-roots organisations, to offer help and support.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend try to ensure that it is made plain to the new Government in Burma—or Myanmar, as it is sometimes called—that they would be most welcome in the Commonwealth?

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend is right to raise the issue of the Burma elections, which allow us an opportunity to make some real progress with the reforms process that started in 2011. We look forward to working with Burma.

International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Friday 6th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This is a sensible change proposed by my noble friend Lord Tugendhat. It would obviously put the Bill, which we want to improve and strengthen, on to a less wobbly basis. There is an enormous debate going on in the economic world and, indeed, in the international scene generally about the nature of GNI. Colleagues will recall, certainly in the last year, or less than a year ago, that the British suddenly found that their budget contribution to the EU budget jumped by the most enormous amount. That was related directly back to redefinitions of our national wealth, product and income. The ONS redefined our national GNI as including various illegal activities and grey and black market activities—and I think, although I may be corrected, on prostitution as well. It made some assessments, which vastly increased our national figure. Instantly we were charged an extra several hundred million—was it even a billion?—for the EU budget. This is dangerous ground. It would be enormously sensible for those who want to see this Bill in place and have an effect to get a better, less shaky basis for it.

There is of course the additional point that if the 0.7% figure rose as a result of GNI rising by these slightly controversial means—I do not think this point has found favour in the House but I beg your Lordships to try to look at it—it would take resources away and put them into ODA, which, as we recognise, is a decreasingly relevant part of the development driver process. That would deprive areas where we want to see development, such as the technology to reduce energy costs, which are crucifying developing countries. We want money to be spent there and on all sorts of technological improvements, which will bring development. We want money to go into defining the law on property ownership, which Hernando de Soto has said is the key consideration in enabling developing societies to develop.

These are the things for which we feel quite passionate. To see money diverted into areas that are not promoting development, even if they add to the aid budget, is not good for this country, our pride and our development power, and it is taking the wrong turning. This is a small but sensible amendment, which I hope will be accepted without demur.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I sat through virtually the whole of the Second Reading debate, as my noble friend Lord Purvis knows. He also knows why I was not able to take part in that debate. It was a very good-humoured debate, which saw this House very much at its best. I regret that the hallmarks of our debates—courteous good humour and willingness to listen to the other point of view—have not been the defining characteristic of this morning’s debate. That is a great pity.

The fact that we can all accept a principle as being wholly desirable and good does not mean that we all have to accept that every particular is also wholly desirable and good. My noble friend Lord Tugendhat moved this amendment with precision and brevity, clarity and force. He made an extremely powerful argument. I hope it is an argument that will be recognised as such by my noble friend Lord Purvis and that he will feel that an amendment of this sort—although I sincerely hope there will be no pressing to a Division today—would not in any sense invalidate or undermine his admirable Bill, but would strengthen it in the ways that have been indicated. I hope that the rest of today’s debate can be conducted in a way that is more reflective of the good humour and good temperament of your Lordships’ House than the debate on the first amendment was.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

I very much support my noble friend Lord Tugendhat’s amendment. In the spirit of my noble friend Lord Cormack, I certainly do not intend to speak for very long.

The first point that my noble friend Lord Tugendhat made was one of transparency. He made the point, quite rightly, that we measure everything else in terms of GDP rather than GNI. If we want to take the public with us it seems to me to be very sensible to use GDP rather than GNI. Let us be honest: the reason why people support this Bill with the enthusiasm they do is because they want to be seen to be generous with other people’s money. We all like people to be generous with their own money; it is slightly different when they are being generous with other people’s money. As that is the purpose of the Bill, we might as well make it as clear as we possibly can by using GDP rather than GNI.

My noble friend Lord Tugendhat also made the point that the difference between GNI and GDP is very small at the moment. In that case, this is a unique and wonderful opportunity to use GDP instead of GNI before the two indices start to part from each other. We have no idea what might happen in the future; the economy of this country may change and it may well be that we start getting less money if GNI starts to increase above GDP.

If we really want to nail this down, I say to my noble friend the Minister that this is a wonderful opportunity to embrace the amendment and get it on GDP, which everybody understands. That also means that we then guarantee that the 0.7% figure means something in the future, if that is what the Bill and the House desire.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

Certainly. GNI became the preferred method of measuring a country’s wealth. As I said, we are meeting an international target.

[Lord Cormack]

I do not dispute the truth of what my noble friend said, but could she tell us when and why this change came about?

[Baroness Northover]

I think I just said when this change occurred. I emphasise too that the budget is subject to annual scrutiny, as my noble friend Lord Purvis said in the debate on the previous amendment.

Syrian Refugees: Food Aid

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right about the fragility of the countries around Syria—not least, of course, Iraq and what is happening there. Just to reassure him slightly, the World Food Programme has fully suspended only in Lebanon, although that is enough of a challenge. As regards the other countries, in Turkey, Iraq and Jordan at the moment it is proposed that vouchers should be reduced, but the full suspension is happening only in Lebanon. The noble Lord is quite right that we need to engage internationally and I can assure him that we have been extremely active in that regard, not least in the Gulf. He will know that the United Kingdom helped to bring forward $1 billion at the various international gatherings that took place last year and this year brought forward $3.3 billion. We now need to make sure that the pledges that were made are delivered.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the Government do not recognise the Government of Syria—that was perhaps premature. What discussions are we having with the Government of Syria to try to expedite delivery of relief?

[Baroness Northover]

We have to work with the Government of Syria, as my noble friend recognises, to get aid into Syria. There have been all sorts of access problems, which we are constantly working to resolve. He will know how challenging that is because of the variety of different groups in different places, which means that you cannot, for example, have safe corridors. However, that is an ongoing problem on which the United Nations is leading and working extremely hard.

Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, first, I declare my interest as a vice-president of WATCH, or Women and the Church. Naturally, WATCH warmly welcomes this Measure. We also especially congratulate the most reverend Primate and the Synod on achieving a solution to what seemed an intractable problem, as we have heard from others, and for doing it in such a short time.

However, I still wonder whether there might be some problems for senior women who might be considered for episcopal appointments. One is that they may have served many years in more junior positions despite their gifts and experience, and therefore be older than the usual run of candidates. Further, while some have already achieved high office, others might not have had the opportunity to follow the path which has previously been the norm for candidates to high office. As we have already heard, there have been some examples of why that may well have benefited many other parts of the world. It is therefore not altogether something to be totally sad about.

The second issue relates to the arrangements for the appointment of Lords spiritual. New diocesan bishops normally have to wait their turn, which can take five years or more. Members of both Houses have expressed concerns on this point in relation to newly appointed women bishops and would be interested to know of any arrangements to appoint women to this House as early as possible. That point has also begun to surface, I think.

We have before us a very short Measure on which this House needs to decide. However, the substance of it lies in the declaration of the House of Bishops and supporting documents. This declaration sets out the arrangements by which clergy and laity who dissent from the Measure can still continue to worship and function as members of the Church of England. WATCH fully accepts that declaration and recognises its importance in achieving the goal of seeing women appointed as bishops. Naturally we shall rejoice, as will virtually the whole church, when that occurs. Nevertheless, inevitably, these arrangements incorporate some measures of discrimination against women and give rise to questions which may not have been tackled in the very short time allowed for framing this legislation.

I have four specific questions which I hope the most reverend Primate will be able to answer, and I think that he has already hinted at the direction in some of his comments. First, can the Archbishops confirm that they will continue to observe the long-standing tradition of consecrating each new bishop? The document was silent on this point, but the most reverend Primate will appreciate how important it is for the validation of the episcopal orders of women and of those male bishops who ordain women.

Secondly, how can congregations in favour of the ordained ministry of women request the episcopal ministry of a non-discriminating bishop? As I understand it, the bishops’ declaration allows for parochial church councils—PCCs—on behalf of their congregations, to request the episcopal ministry of a male bishop. However, there are already parishes that have a woman priest but whose bishop does not recognise that priest’s orders. The declaration is silent on the question of whether such a PCC can request a non-discriminating bishop under the new arrangements. It is also silent on whether such PCCs have access to the newly created independent reviewer of disputes, who is to pronounce on,

“any aspect of the operation of the House of Bishops’ Declaration”.

Thirdly, can the most reverend Primate confirm that any newly appointed conservative evangelical headship bishop will minister only to parishes that request his ministry? There appear to be two possible models for the appointment of a headship bishop. One would be the “flying bishop” model instituted by the Act of Synod of 1993. In this model such a bishop would minister only to those parishes that specifically requested his oversight. The other—and, one has to say, much less acceptable—model would be to make a suffragan appointment to a specific see. In this case the majority of parishes under his oversight would not wish to receive the oversight of a bishop wedded to the concept of the subordination of women.

Fourthly, and finally, can the most reverend Primate confirm that Clause 2 of the Measure will have the effect of allowing the church to discriminate exclusively on grounds of gender and will not facilitate discrimination on grounds of sexuality and remarriage after divorce?

Clause 2 of the Measure declares that the office of bishop is not a public office—and we have had that confirmed by the most reverend Primate—and therefore is not bound by Section 50 of the Equality Act 2010. This clause is crucial to the regime for women bishops set out in the House of Bishops’ declaration, because that regime depends in part upon arrangements that discriminate against women. Reluctantly, women and supporters of women bishops have accepted it on this basis. However, the effect of this clause is finally and irrevocably to exempt the bishops from the anti-discrimination requirements of the Equalities Act 2010, not only in relation to gender but also in relation to other protected characteristics under that Act, including, most importantly for the church, sexuality and remarriage after divorce. Verbal assurances have been given that the bishops will not avail themselves of that exception, and I think that that is also what the most reverend Primate was telling us, but to have that assurance recorded in Hansard would really be a great help. I very much look forward to the most reverend Primate’s reply.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the most reverend Primate for the most generous way in which he introduced this Measure. I also pay tribute to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, who is the chairman of the Ecclesiastical Committee—a committee on which I had the honour to sit for some 40 years—for the understanding way in which he spoke.

I do not wish to enter a jarring note in this debate, nor do I wish that anything I should say should diminish the delight and joy of those who have an unreserved welcome for this Measure. However, this is a debating Chamber, and where there are diversities of views it is important that those views should be voiced, if only briefly. I happen to belong to what Archbishop Hope—now the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Hope—referred to very memorably in earlier debates on the ordination of women as the traditional integrity within the Church of England. I have the great good fortune of being able to worship every Sunday in the cathedral of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Lincoln. Before I moved from Staffordshire, I was churchwarden of the church of St Mary in Enville in the diocese of Lichfield.

For me, this is not a matter of equality in the secular sense to which the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, alluded in her speech. I honour the position of women in all walks of life. I revere the Blessed Virgin Mary, second only to our Lord himself. I have had the great privilege of being associated with some very fine women leaders in various walks of life, including the noble Baroness, Lady Howe; I have worked in a secular capacity with her for several years on matters of equality. So this is not a matter of gender discrimination. However, I happen to believe—this matter was referred to with great understanding by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd—that the majority of Christendom cannot be just lightly brushed aside. I talk of the Roman Catholic Church, and the Orthodox Church in particular. The majority of Christians in our world belong to one or other of those churches. I worked in the ecumenical field as a lay man, and I always longed for the day when there would be a unity among the catholic churches, of which the Anglican Church is one. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, was right when he said that what we are doing this evening—I shall certainly not oppose it—will not exactly accelerate ecumenism. Let us not put it any more strongly than that.

Afghanistan: Quarterly Statement

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, we have had a member of the Cross Benches speak already. We take these things in turn. I hope that that will be helpful.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, I am grateful. My noble friend has made a moving and impressive Statement. However, she has not mentioned one group of people, and upon them so much has depended: the Afghan interpreters. As we withdraw from Afghanistan, we of course maintain our aid and connection. Can my noble friend assure me that the sacrifice and service that those men and women have given will not be forgotten, and that we will ensure—so far as is possible—that their lives will not be endangered after we have withdrawn?

[Baroness Northover]

Yes, we owe a great deal to the local Afghan staff who have worked for us in Afghanistan. As my noble friend will probably know, there is now a scheme in operation which is based in a generous in-country package of training and financial support for those for whom it is appropriate to stay, and a financial payment. For those who are eligible, such as staff who are regularly involved in working on the front line, there is the opportunity to apply for relocation in the United Kingdom.

In the other place, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Development said that she would write to Keith Vaz, who chairs the Home Affairs Select Committee, with some details on numbers. I will ask that that same letter is put in the House of Lords Library and copied to my noble friend.

Human Rights

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 21st November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Clarke of Hampstead. I pay my tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, who has been an indefatigable campaigner. He gave a very fine keynote speech today and it is a privilege to take part in this debate. It is a privilege also to follow four very distinguished, and I might say distinguishable, maiden speakers, each one of whom brought a particular quality to our deliberations.

In a brief debate, I want to highlight one or two things. First, we must always be persistent—the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, did right to quote the great Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I think back to those in our own country who struggled for what we now take for granted but what, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, pointed out, is certainly not taken for granted in many parts of the world. I think of Wilberforce and his campaign against slavery, and Shaftesbury, who rescued children. We have a great deal to be proud of—which does not mean that we have great deal to be complacent about. We must also remember that persistence pays off.

I want to relate two, very brief stories to the House from my own experience. I do it in the light of the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, who talked about Russia as it is today—and certainly there is a great deal of imperfection. When I came into Parliament some 43 years ago, I immediately became a great friend of the noble Lord, Lord Janner. We decided to form a campaign for the release of Soviet Jewry. He thought that it was right that I should chair it, as a Christian, and he was a very tireless secretary. I am sorry that he is not in his place at the moment, because I pay tribute to him. At that time, it was impossible to get a visa to go to Moscow to argue our case. It was impossible to get religious books accepted in the Soviet Union. I remember we sent one, signed by all the party leaders, to a dissident called Slepak’s son for his bar mitzvah. It was sent back. Twenty years later, as a member of an international commission on human rights, I took part in an epiphany service in the Kremlin in a place where the leaders of the Soviet bloc countries had gone in the past and Christian worship would never have been permitted. At that service, handed to Mr Gorbachev’s special representative and chef de cabinet, Andrei Grachev, was a volume of the Scriptures which was symbolic of a million Bibles being accepted into the Soviet Union. That was true progress.

I relate just one other incident. Two years later, in 1972-73, we were in Vienna receiving some who had come out and been given visas. There was one young lady who spoke the most perfect English. I joked with her and said, “You must have been top of all your classes” and she said, “Well, actually, I was, until the day after my parents were granted the visa, when I was summoned to the vice-chancellor’s office and told that I had been the victim of a mistake and I had failed everything”. Thirty-one years later, I stood in that vice-chancellor’s or chancellor’s office in the University of Tartu in Estonia, a country by then a member of the European Community and of NATO, and rejoiced at the freedoms that had come.

I tell these two very brief stories merely to illustrate that persistence can and does pay off. It is important that we maintain dialogue—the noble Lord, Lord Alton, referred to the Helsinki accords. It is important that we keep contact with those countries whose regimes we deplore, and it is important that we deplore them publicly so that there is pressure on the leaders of those countries to make them realise that they are not acting in isolation but are being looked at, and that their words and deeds are being monitored. Let us remember that in almost every country of which we are talking, be it Pakistan, Nigeria or Iran, a vast majority of ordinary, decent people are desperate to have the freedoms which we enjoy and which my noble friend Lord Finkelstein spoke so movingly about earlier in this debate. If we are going to be able to ensure that human rights really are universal, we must keep up both the public and the private pressure.