(5 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberWe believe we can support farmers in their environmental stewardship and in caring for our natural environment through our replacement for the common agricultural policy. That will allow us to go further and faster in providing support for farmers conducting their crucially important role in protecting our natural environment.
I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. For everybody’s constituents, including mine in Gedling, the Bill is very important. It contains a lot of very welcome measures. If we are to have an election in the next few weeks, will she look at what can be done to preserve those measures so that they are not lost? I know that that is a matter of process, but it is extremely important to all of us and our constituents.
I agree that this landmark proposed legislation needs to continue regardless of when Parliament dissolves for a general election. It is vital that the Bill comes back to the House as soon as possible to ensure that we can embed in legislation the important protections it contains.
(6 years ago)
Commons ChamberIt is a bit strange to be discussing a subject like this today, but we are, and I think we should recognise how important the Bill is. I congratulate Opposition Front Benchers, and indeed the Government, on their work.
I was particularly struck by what the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) said. The Chamber should be much fuller than it is at the moment. As she said, what we are doing here is historic. She mentioned her daughter; unfortunately, for me it is grandchildren. As I have asked in other debates, are we to be the generation that sees the obliteration from our planet of some of the most remarkable species that have ever existed? Today we are debating the elephant, but what will people be saying in 20 or 30 years’ time? Every year 20,000 African elephants are poached and slaughtered just for their ivory. The Bill relates to our own country, of course, but hopefully it will act as an inspiration and a lead for other countries.
Is it not the case that the Chamber is normally full when we disagree and often empty when we agree with each other? There is an upside to the fact that there are not many Members in the Chamber: the Bill is proceeding by agreement.
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is something nauseating about a person who would slaughter an endangered animal to produce a trinket?
I absolutely agree that that is nauseating. It is also nauseating that people post photographs of themselves engaging in so-called trophy hunting. As for the right hon. Gentleman’s other point, it is not really a question of whether we agree or disagree. I am attending the debate because I agree with the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow that the importance of this issue should be recognised across the House. Of course there is no disagreement about it—I do not think it is a party political issue. Every single Member of Parliament is appalled by the prospect of elephants and other species being slaughtered for their ivory, and the Bill is an important step forward.
I visit school after school, as do all Members, and meet young people after young people, from all walks of life, who are simply sickened by what is happening. Unless we as a world wake up, these animals—whether they be elephants, whales, giraffes or any other species—will become extinct. It is all very well for us to say “It is difficult, and it is tough”, but the Bill is a step forward, so I am not criticising the Government. It is tough and difficult, but we must not be the generation that sees the end of these species on our planet.
We have a degree of unity in this debate, and I think we all agree about this elephant ivory Bill, but those of us who were on the Bill Committee and who spoke in previous stages in the House argue that the protection is not the same for the other species we talked about—I mentioned the narwhal in Committee and in the House, and there is also the rhino, the walrus and others. Is it not a failure that we are not including all those species in the Bill?
Of course that is a weakness in the Bill, but the Minister and our Front-Bench spokesperson, my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Sandy Martin), mentioned—this is my understanding, too—that the Secretary of State has committed to consulting on extending it to other species. I say to the Secretary of State that this is urgent. Public consultation can take a year or two years before the Government review it. I say to the Secretary of State—I know that he and I agree on this issue, if not others—that there is an urgency about this and we have to get a move on.
I say to our own country and the world that we need to wake up. If we do not wake up, our children, our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren will say to the Secretary of State, to my hon. Friends on the Opposition Front Bench, and to me and other Members here, “What were you doing? What did you do? How did you stop this?” And everybody will say, “Well, it’s terrible and awful and a disgrace.” That is not good enough—we all need to use the sickening feeling we have to demand more of ourselves and this Parliament.
The last point I want to make is that today and other days have obviously been dominated by discussions about Brexit, but our constituents often ask us what else is happening while that debate is going on. I hope that at least some of the comments made in the Chamber about the important step forward being taken through the Bill will be reported, and that some of the young people out there—whether in the school of the daughter of the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow, my grandchildren’s school or others—will learn that this Parliament has been listening and trying to do what we can to ensure that the great animals, including elephants, are saved for future generations.
I also welcome the move to put this legislation in place, and I welcome the Lords amendments, but for those of us who served on the Bill Committee there are still some questions, which were referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Sandy Martin). I want to ask about some of the things I was banging on about during the previous stages of the Bill.
First, we talked about the enforcement of the legislation, particularly in respect of online sales, which can be difficult. Secondly, I would like to know about the future funding of the National Wildlife Crime Unit after 2020. Can the Minister give us some clarity and assurances on that? Most importantly, as other Members have mentioned, there is the question of when the Government expect to launch the consultation on extending the scope of the Bill to animals such as hippos and narwhals. If we really want to end the trade in ivory it is imperative that there be no debate about what kind of ivory it is and whether it is covered by this Bill. I urge the Secretary of State to clarify that point.
(6 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberThe hon. Lady will recognise the proactivity of her water company as it affects her constituents. By and large, Ofwat is doing a good job. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has asked Jonson Cox and Rachel Fletcher, who is the new chief executive, what powers they need to further improve the performance of water companies and to help consumers and businesses. We are prepared to give them those powers and back the actions they take to make sure that the water industry is fit for purpose.
The reality for many thousands of people, including hundreds in my constituency in Arnold, Nottingham, was 24 hours without water and, in some circumstances, no access to bottled water. In particular, people had concerns about vulnerable customers. Can the Minister assure us that companies such as Severn Trent will now review their emergency plans so that such things cannot happen again? It is simply unacceptable that we cannot even get bottled water to everyone who needs it.
(6 years, 9 months ago)
Westminster HallWestminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) on securing this important debate. I do not want to speak for long, but I felt it was important to make a short contribution to the debate. To be frank, I felt somewhat guilty that I have not spoken much on this issue in my time in Parliament. Like many people, over the past year or two I have been moved by some of the things that I have seen on television and by things that I have read. I have been moved by the devastating figures that have started to emerge, thanks to the work of people such as my hon. Friend and others in the Chamber, and by organisations outside this House, some of whom are with us today.
The world—and ourselves, as a developed nation and a Parliament—is at a crossroads. It is not that the Government are not doing anything and do not care; that would clearly be ridiculous and not true. We do care, and so do a significant number of people across the world. The criminal gangs represent a very small minority, but unless we tackle them and work with other countries with a greater sense of urgency—so that the issue becomes a greater priority for our country, for the various international organisations, for the EU, for the various policing bodies, for the United Nations and for the Organisation of Africa Unity, and so on—our grandchildren will not see a wild elephant, except in a photo or perhaps in a zoo, where we really do not want to see them. They will not see a wild tiger, a wild rhinoceros or many other species of plant or tree, or whatever. Unless we wake up to this, people’s grandchildren and great-grandchildren will look back at 2018 and say, “What were you doing? You were decision makers.”
We in Parliament make the laws. We set the priorities for our Government, and our Government, through the international organisations to which we belong, can demand that priorities are set and action taken. So the question is: what did you do? Where were you? What did you say? When I found out about this debate, it made me think I had better start speaking up. It is a challenge for me, let alone the Government. We must demand that the Government make the issue a priority. It is not a case of blame; it is a case of saying, “For Christ’s sake, let’s wake up. For goodness’ sake, let’s look and see what is going on.”
The figures say billions were made here, or billions were made there. We can argue about the figures, but countless billions of pounds are made by small numbers of gangs who are ruining our planet and our future. We must tackle them. We sometimes know who they are. We sometimes fail to implement existing laws and fail to take the proceeds of crime from people who have benefited from it, but why does that happen? The Minister does not want that to happen. The Prime Minister does not want that to happen. The Prime Minister of our dreams would not want that to happen. It does not matter which party is in power; it happens, and it carries on happening. The same can be said about the international bodies we belong to.
Billions of pounds are made. The figures produced by various people are shocking. When we see the pictures it brings tears to our eyes, but crying about it does not save a single elephant, rhinoceros or tiger. That is simply the starting point—the thing that wakes each of us up, to say, “We will not stand for this any longer.” Although we cannot wave a magic wand, we want to be able to say to our grandchildren that we did everything we possibly could. At the moment, I do not think I could say that. I will let others judge whether they could, but I could not. That is why I wanted to speak in this debate.
I do not want the Government to get defensive about this, but they could do more simply by saying, “We are going to put a new shirt on, dust ourselves down, see what the laws are, bang the desk and demand that we get better action”—from ourselves, but also from the police and the international organisations that we belong to. If that happened, it would not stop these things overnight, but I bet it would start moving things along.
Can we not accelerate things a bit? Do we really want to come back here in a year, or two or three, and say, “There are still elephants being poached for their ivory”? That was the plea of my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton and the hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr). Whatever the difficulties, the consultation has finished. I accept that it will not be easy, given the exemptions that will have to be made; but for goodness’ sake, we have been talking about an ivory ban for years. Can we not just get on with it somehow?
Other people know far more than I do about the laws and the difficulties—some will have had to go and witness them. I came here to say this to the Government. I know they want to do as much as they can, and they are doing so. That is true of us all. But let us not be the Parliament, or the Members, or the legislators who had to tell their grandchildren, “We’re sorry that those great wild animals no longer exist. We wanted to do more, but it was difficult to get people to work together, and the exemptions were difficult.” Whatever the challenges and difficulties, we owe it to our children and grandchildren, ourselves and the planet, to do better. That is the task before us.
(7 years ago)
General CommitteesI beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Environmental Protection (Microbeads) (England) Regulations 2017.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin. We will be debating legislation to tackle microbeads in the use of rinse-off personal care products. “Blue Planet II” has shone a spotlight on our seas, and it is clear that they are in danger from many issues, including plastic waste. Plastic has become integral to our modern-day lifestyles, but millions of tonnes of plastic enter the global ocean every year, which is why we must take greater care and action to reduce if not eliminate pollution of our marine environment.
The draft regulations will ban the manufacture and sale of rinse-off personal care products containing plastic microbeads. Significantly, the ban is twofold. First, it will ensure that products containing microbeads may no longer be produced in England. Secondly, it will ensure that such products may not be sold or exported from the country. That will reduce the unnecessary release of plastic into the marine environment and lessen the harm to marine organisms caused by that form of microplastic. The ban has been worked on in conjunction with the devolved Administrations, and they too will introduce similar bans on manufacture and sale, likely in July.
Microbeads are small plastic particles. For the purposes of the draft regulations, “microbead” means
“any water-insoluble solid plastic particle of less than or equal to 5 mm in any dimension”.
Microbeads are added to many personal care products for their exfoliating effect. It has been suggested that one shower alone can send 100,000 microbeads into the water system and, subsequently, into our seas and the marine animals that live there. Personal care products containing microbeads are calculated to add 35,000 tonnes of plastic a year to the marine environment. Once released, those microbeads are impossible to recover.
The impact assessment talks about “other products”, which will not be covered by the regulations. Will the Minister tell us, now or later in her remarks, what the other products containing microbeads that will not be covered by the regulations are?
I shall certainly endeavour to do so. I have at least one example, and I am sure the hon. Gentleman will prompt me again if I do not cover the extent of the regulations.
It is extraordinarily difficult to directly measure the effect of microbeads per se on the marine environment. However, as microbeads are a form of microplastic, evidence concerning microplastics can be used to inform our view of the environmental impacts of microbeads. It is thought that ingestion of microplastics by some marine organisms can reduce digestion of food, affect reproduction adversely and be passed along marine food chains. Evidence indicates that chemical pollutants can leach from and attach to microplastics, risking increased exposure to toxins when ingested by marine organisms.
I want to recognise the efforts that the industry has made to address the problem of microbeads. A number of manufacturers and retailers have already stopped using microbeads in their products or have committed to do so. We want to ensure, however, that all companies follow that approach. The draft regulations will also create a level playing field for industry and certainty for consumers. Natural alternatives to microbeads do exist. They are readily available and, indeed, were used successfully in personal care products before plastic microbeads were introduced.
We considered whether the ban should extend to other products, including leave-on toiletries and cleaning products. Our initial assessment is that leave-on toiletries tend to be wiped off and the material discarded via normal waste streams, but we have asked the Hazardous Substances Advisory Committee to review the evidence on that. As for cleaning products, the trade bodies have shown that no such products for sale in this country include microbeads. Some countries have opted to ban only those plastic particles added for exfoliating and cleansing purposes, but our objective is to minimise marine microplastic pollution. Therefore, our ban covers all microplastic particles in those rinse-off cosmetics and personal care products. That is what makes it one of the toughest bans in the world.
The approach we have taken is based on clear evidence and, as a result, has support from a wide range of stakeholders. Only by working together can we be the first generation ever to leave the environment in a better state than we inherited it. I would like to think that that approach is another strong example of the proud and continuing leadership role that the United Kingdom has played in protecting the marine environment, not just around our coastline but throughout the world, including our overseas territories. With this legislation we will deliver one of the strongest bans—if not the strongest—on microbeads in the world. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.
The hon. Member for North East Hampshire is absolutely right to say that the Committee is unanimous in welcoming these regulations, but clearly we are all impatient. We all want more to be done yesterday. Nobody is being churlish about welcoming these regulations, but it is incumbent on the Committee to challenge the Government to do even more. With that in mind, I welcome the action the Government are taking and their attempts to make progress.
The various notes about the regulations mention protecting the environment, and people have talked about “Blue Planet II” and so on, but this is not about protecting the environment; it is about saving the environment. We are at a crossroads as a country and globally, and we have to make some clear decisions. Unlike the hon. Gentleman, I have not watched the last episode of “Blue Planet II”, which deals with some of the major environmental consequences. One can watch it and feel that the situation is absolutely terrible and unbelievable and that we have to do something about it, but that is not enough. We are all shocked and horrified, which is why it is good that the Government have introduced these regulations.
The Minister was right, as was my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax, about encouraging consumer confidence. Consumers can make a huge difference, but they need information, so labelling is important, as it is in many areas, in enabling people to make particular choices when they go into a shop.
The Minister talked about our setting an example to other countries, which is absolutely right. Will she say a little more about how we intend to do that? We can do it through the various international bodies we belong to, notwithstanding Brexit. We can do it through the United Nations. However, the Government need a plan for how they intend to set the example. The regulations apply to England. I understand the devolved nature of these matters but if we are talking about a UK-wide approach, will the Minister explain how our actions relate to those being taken by Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?
I want to say something to the hon. Member for North East Hampshire: is it not disappointing that, given the outrage in this country and the way in which everybody speaks about the need to protect the environment, not every single major cosmetic company has already taken voluntary action? That is not only disappointing; it is absolutely incredible. There are major cosmetic companies on the list. There is no secret about which have signed and which have not, because the information is on the impact assessment. It is brilliant that 70% have done so, but why not the other 28% or 30%? It is astonishing. The managing directors and shareholders will have stood up at their board meetings and talked about their social conscience and the need for companies to reflect on their social responsibilities. I bet many of them have watched “Blue Planet”, but that is not enough. That is why I welcome the regulations: they say to the small number of companies—just over a quarter of them—that have not voluntarily moved that we are going to legislate.
I hope this resonates loud and clear: it is not good enough in 2017—nearly 2018—for major companies that make large sums of money to ignore their social responsibilities when it comes to something that every single person in this country demands that we do more about. The Minister should name those companies—I will not do it, unless she wants me to do so—that are listed in the public information available to the Committee in the impact assessment. Big companies have not acted and they should be held to account.
Does my hon. Friend agree that ordinary citizens feel a real sense of urgency when they watch those programmes and become educated about the environment? However, there is a real lack of ambition in the extent of this proposal and in the industry’s willingness to match how passionately people feel about this.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and that was the major contribution I wanted to make. We can talk about that passion for reform and say that it is a good thing. The 70% of the major cosmetics companies that have already taken action should be complimented and held up as examples of what can be done. They obviously have to make a profit and do all the things we expect in the market economy we live in. However, as I say—I cannot labour this point enough—big companies have a social responsibility. It is good that the Government are bringing the regulations forward, but in a sense it is not only disappointing but makes one deeply ashamed of some of the ways in which people operate. They watch these environmental programmes, see animals tangled up or being poisoned and feel as affected by it as we all are, yet they take decisions in those companies that fail to recognise those consequences.
I will make a couple of other points, which were also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax. Will the Minister say a little more about the plastic microbeads not included in the scope of the regulations? Will she also say a little more about the further work that will be done by the Hazardous Substances Advisory Committee to see what action can be taken on other categories of products that might contain microbeads? I think all of us want to see that done as quickly as possible.
As the Minister will know, the impact assessment talks of 680 tonnes of microbeads used each year in the UK. If each microbead is less than 0.5 mm in size, goodness only knows how many microbeads must be needed to make 680 tonnes; I do not even know how they would measure that. Anyway, it must be an incomprehensible number, and that is just for usage in the UK each year. Has the Minister made any assessment of how much the regulations before the Committee will reduce that 680 tonnes? I am one for concrete examples, and it would be interesting, if that amount has somehow been measured as 680 tonnes, to know whether there is a scientific estimate of what the reduction in that amount will be.
As I understand it, some major retailers have said that they will not sell their own brands from now on. In the time between now and when the regulations come into effect, will they still be able to sell brands other than those they have manufactured? In other words, can they stop selling their own brands but sell products made by somebody else?
I see it will be 21 days from when the regulations are made before many of them come into effect, and 60 days for the other bits. Will the Minister say a little more about how quickly, after the regulations come into force, we can expect trading standards to actually use the powers and take action against people who might not be adhering to the legislation? In other words, it is clearly 21 days—or 60 days for some—until the regulations come into force. How long does the Minister think the transition phase will be, between day one when the regulations come into force and every single one of those other 28% of companies complying with the legislation and not selling products containing microbeads?
The regulations make one think about the consequences for human health if sea creatures are eating these things. That point is beyond the scope of the regulations, but it is worth making. I will finish where I started. I hope that my remarks are in no way seen as my saying that the regulations are not important, because they really are. As my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax said, the Opposition support the regulations; I and other Committee members clearly support what the Government are doing on this, and there is clearly more work to be done on what is not included in the regulations.
The Government and Parliament need to use the regulations as an example of the sort of legislation that Parliament will pass if industry and others fail to put their own house in order. It should act as a wake-up call. It is not good enough to be horrified; people need to act. They need to act now.
No. That is another example of products that have become part of everyday life. However, when they go through a washing machine, microfibres and microplastics are released. The regulations also extend to things such as tyres, because in tyre wear we see microplastics generated, washed on to the road, then into our water courses and so on. It is a challenge across a wide range of products. In particular, we focused on this because we know the evidence is already there. We know that our existing sewage treatments cover particles from about 6 mm upwards, so this is a specific way to try to address the problem by stopping at source the very generation of microbeads in products that are widely used. We wanted to tackle that.
If the hon. Member for Halifax has evidence that cleaning products with microbeads are available, she should please let me know and we can look at that. So far, the evidence we have seen is that no such cleaning products are available for sale. We need to ensure that, dare I say it, we regulate to address the problem in hand and not just create regulations for their own sake.
With regard to the devolved nations, yes, the consultation was UK-wide between the four Governments. We cannot dictate the processes by which they bring the ban into effect, but we are working with them to try to ensure that we coincide the ban that will come in due course.
As the hon. Member for Gedling knows, the 21 days will kick in from when the regulations are voted through the House—I think they have gone through the House of Lords today. Then, in essence, manufacture will become an offence, and then sale will become an offence. I suggest to the Committee that it will become more difficult for people to buy such products for resale in their shops. Of course, today the products are legal, so people can choose to sell them but, as we have seen, many companies have already taken action.
I point out that the regulations also cover the import of products, so if they are imported they still cannot be sold—that deals with that challenge. In terms of international actions, it might surprise the Committee to know that we had to get permission from the European Union and the World Trade Organisation. We initiated that on 28 July. We had to have a three-month process for objections, and there were none. We also have to go through other regulatory processes where we make the case, which is one of the reasons it takes so long. I think it was my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) who brought the issue to the attention of the Environmental Audit Committee when giving evidence some time ago. Members are right to pay tribute to that Committee, but that is an explanation of why it takes quite so long to reach the point we have got to today.
I do not think the regulations are necessarily the end of the process. I am sure that the Committee will want to be assured that we are taking appropriate action. We are addressing wider issues of microplastics getting into the environment. We need to continue to work with industry to ensure that it has time to develop alternatives.
The 680 tonnes is the amount used in cosmetics, and we recognise that not all of it ends up in the marine environment. I would not want to throw out a figure just to satisfy the hon. Member for Gedling. The point is that we are removing these microbeads at source so that there is at least a reduction from what we have today.
I think I have covered all the questions that I have been asked so far, and I recognise that the hon. Gentleman did not want to be churlish. We are going to press on and try to pass the regulations today, and I hope that they will then go through the House.
We have considered the regulations at considerable length. They are a good step and they are the toughest ban announced in the world so far, to the best of my knowledge. Enforcement will be down to local councils, but we believe clearly and strongly that manufacturers will know that it is an offence to create microbeads. Individual large stores and our wholesalers, from which smaller stores often buy their products, will also know that it is an offence to sell these products. I am confident that the supply chain for these products will collapse. I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft Environmental Protection (Microbeads) (England) Regulations 2017.
(7 years ago)
Commons ChamberMy hon. Friend has been a passionate and successful campaigner for animal welfare during his entire career in the House of Commons, and he is right to say that there are now opportunities to take steps to improve the treatment of live exports—or potentially to ban them—as we leave the European Union. The steps that we take when we put animal welfare at the heart of all we do must be consistent with our broader negotiating objectives as we leave the EU.
On animal welfare standards, whether we are in the EU or outside it, will the Secretary of State consider the importance of labelling so that people know what they are buying? When a label says that a chicken has been reared outside or been stunned or not stunned, people must be able to trust that they know what has happened.
The hon. Gentleman is right: there is confusion and uncertainty in the minds of some consumers as a result of current labelling. Already, farmer-led schemes such as the Red Tractor scheme ensure that people know that animals have been kept to the highest welfare standards, but we can go further and I look forward to working with the hon. Gentleman on that.
(7 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberI want to make a brief contribution to the debate on the need to increase courts’ flexibility to sentence offenders for up to five years. As it stands, the maximum sentence is six months, and that has been the case since 1911. All Members have experienced considerable pressure from constituents about the issue. Constituents have contacted me to say that they simply cannot believe that the law has stayed in place for so long without being changed.
When we look at the cases that we deal with in our constituencies, as well as the cases reported in the newspapers, we can clearly see that courts need the flexibility to deal with those offenders much more severely than they can at present. Making this change would not compel the courts to sentence somebody for five years—it would not compel them to do anything—but, as the Minister knows, it would send a message to the courts that they have that power and they can use it if necessary.
I support the Committee’s recommendation, and I add the voices of my constituents in Gedling, and of many others from across the country, to those who ask the Government to review the matter as quickly as possible and change the maximum sentence from six months to five years. I hope that the Minister will take that on board and make the change as soon as possible.
(13 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberUrgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
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I do not think that that is a proper question about the waste review. The Prime Minister enjoys a very good refuse collection service in his Oxfordshire constituency.
If the Secretary of State wants to meet her waste targets and tackle recycling, why has the availability of feed-in tariffs been reduced?
That is more accurately a question for DECC, and I suggest that the hon. Gentleman addresses his question to a Minister from that Department.