Environment Bill

Lord Carrington Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 5th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lords, Lord Berkeley and Lord Lucas, have withdrawn, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Carrington.

[Lord Carrington (CB)]

My Lords, I add my support to Amendment 134 proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle. She has put the case for a variable rate dependent on container size most forcefully. There is nothing I can add without repetition, so I would like the Minister to comment on the reason given by the Minister, Rebecca Pow, in the other place. When she gave evidence to the Environmental Audit Committee, Rebecca Pow, who is the Minister responsible for the DRS, said that the department was inclined to introduce a variable rate of deposit.

However, Defra currently wants to leave it to the scheme administrator to make the ultimate decision. The concern is that the administrator may not assess the need for a variable deposit independently and impartially, as it will be run by the industry itself, with all its vested interest to take into account. Can the Minister assure us of the independence of the administrator and how the appointment process for the administrator will work? A variable rate should be mandated in the legislation at this stage to avoid these potential problems.

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 133A, to which I have put my name, which was tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, and is also supported by the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, and the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott. This amendment is about what is known as an all-in deposit scheme, which means it catches as many items as possible. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, is absolutely right that our priority ought to be to reduce waste in the first place and so, if we are going to reduce waste, we need a comprehensive deposit scheme. We must stand back and look at what we are trying to do, which is to protect the environment. The bigger and wider the deposit scheme, the more chance we have of keeping the environment in the state in which we would like it to be.

However, I know this causes an awful lot of worry for those who have set up return or deposit schemes at the moment, have invested money in them and do not want to change. It is the nature of industry that there will always be vested interests, but I hope that my noble friend will stand back from them and say that this is needed in the interests of the environment.

My noble friend Lord Trenchard rightly mentioned that any scheme must be pretty much the same across the whole United Kingdom. However, I challenge him on one thing. He said that Scotland had rushed ahead; no, I think that England is the laggard. Why should Scotland have to wait until England finally gets its house in order and its act together? Scotland has once again led the way, and it is time that England got on and followed suit.

Getting a UK comprehensive plan will be very important. There was a consultation on an all-in deposit scheme in 2019, which was overwhelmingly endorsed as the right way forward. All I ask my noble friend the Minister is that, when he introduces a scheme, he keeps it as simple as possible; I ask him please to use the KISS principle with this if he is going to get us to participate in this scheme and make it work in the best way possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Carrington (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. I also declare my interest as someone who is involved in a major beekeeping operation.

As has been pointed out, this is not the first time that noble Lords have discussed this issue, and no doubt nor will it be the last. I would like to speak against Amendments 152 and 254 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and other noble Lords.

Neither of these amendments achieves anything that is not already covered by existing regulations and practice, but both might be not only counterproductive but harmful to food production in this country. Farmers need to grow healthy, affordable, sustainable food, at the same time as addressing environmental and climate-change issues. It does not make sense to push farmers out of food production, with the consequence of increasing imports from countries with lower standards. We need to accept that the UK has one of the most stringent regulatory systems in the world for the use of plant protection products.

With regard to Amendment 152, the existing PPP regulations cover the impact on bystanders and residents living or working near the area of treatment. There is already a strict code of practice, and incidents of harm and noncompliance are investigated. Operators must have appropriate qualifications and equipment is regularly tested under various protocols and insurance schemes. Please remember that farmers spray only when it is strictly necessary as part of integrated pest-management approaches. PPPs are targeted and not used in isolation. However, failure to use PPPs for weeds, pests and diseases can result in significant crop losses, which have been estimated by some at around 30% to 40% of our food.

Turning to Amendment 252, appropriate and robust risk assessments on all active substances are already performed. With the current pressure on farming to improve sustainable practices, as it moves from the blunt instrument of the basic payment to that linked to public good, there is considerable likelihood that the amount of land under food production will decrease. This will be compounded by pressures for land from forestry and housing. Therefore, improvements in productivity are essential. This will be brought about largely by technology, and agritech in particular. Plant breeding, precision farming and pest control, together with gene editing, are all part of the armoury to make sure that we can feed people in a sustainable and affordable way. Investments in these areas need to be encouraged, not discouraged by introducing more regulation regarding areas that are already sufficiently regulated, with the regulations recognised as being among the most stringent.

Humankind faces many challenges and I applaud this Bill for addressing many of them. But we need to bear in mind proportionality. Let us not, albeit guided by the best of intentions, limit our capacity to feed the population of this country in an affordable way. Just look at the number of food banks in the country today. Empty stomachs have caused many a revolution and riots.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I speak in support of Amendment 152 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and colleagues, and Amendment 254 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, regarding the use of pesticides and their impact on the environment. I vividly recall similar debates last year in Committee and on Report during the passage of the Agriculture Act.

I believe, like the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, that there has to be a level of proportionality and balance, but I live in a rural area and I know what it is like to be impacted by the use of pesticides. There is a clear need for a pesticide management plan, because there has been an excessive use of pesticides, which have been damaging not only to the pollinators, as expressed through Amendment 254, but to human health and the environment, as conveyed by Amendment 152.

Amendment 152 is a cross-party piece of proposed legislation and is crucial in that its focus is the protection of human health and the environment in rural areas by prohibiting the use of agricultural pesticides near specified areas and the vulnerable groups within them, such as rural residents’ homes, schools, childcare nurseries and other healthcare facilities. As detailed in the UK Pesticides Campaign’s submission to the Public Bill Committee, it is highly noticeable that, although human health and the environment are inextricably linked—particularly when it comes to the use of agricultural pesticides—and the Environment Bill includes priority areas for regulations to be set, including in relation to air quality and the listed air polluting impacts, there appears to be a total omission of any requirements for the protection of human health and the environment from agricultural pesticides. Quite clearly, a level of balance and proportionality is required in the use and the location of pesticides.

As it stands, the Environment Bill does not appear to recognise in any capacity or even have any specific reference to pesticides, when in actual fact they are the biggest contributor of damage, pollution and contamination of the air, soil, water and overall environment in rural areas. The UK Pesticides Campaign asserts that the existing pesticides standards here in the UK fail to protect human health and the environment in rural areas.

Because improving air quality is a major public health issue, long-overdue regulations for the protection of human health and the environment from agricultural pesticides now need to be set in the Environment Bill, most importantly for the protection of the health of rural residents and communities—hence the need for Amendment 152 to be put on the face of the Bill, as the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, outlined.

Furthermore, on Amendment 254, the reality of crop spraying in the countryside is that it involves the dispersal of innumerable mixtures and cocktails of pesticides sprayed on crops, so the critical point about the exposure of any species—whether it be humans or bees and other pollinators—is that it will be to mixtures of different pesticides.

There is also the risk of adverse impacts on bee health from the cumulative effects of multiple exposures to mixtures of different pesticides. The only way to properly protect bees and other pollinators is to prohibit the use of such harmful pesticides in rural areas. Maybe another way to address this issue would be if farmers were allowed to set aside greater areas that were fully covered by all the subsidy schemes.

The Soil Association wants to see a different approach to farming and the use of pesticides. It believes that the Government and society should support UK farmers to transition to whole-farm agroecological systems, ensuring that there is no lowering of environmental or health standards as a result of any new trade deals, and that they should introduce a clear quantitative target for significantly reducing the overall use of pesticides in agriculture.

Therefore, pollinators must be protected from pesticides as Amendment 254 requires. I look forward to the response from the Minister and I hope that he will see fit to accept both amendments to ensure that our environment, our natural life and biodiversity and the human health of individuals in rural areas can be protected from the harmful impacts of pesticides.