Devolution (Scotland Referendum)

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Tuesday 14th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Those in the Scottish National party must remember that that was indeed the result.

Some concerns have been expressed about the timetable for the Smith commission, but we cannot win on that one. It will be seen either as far too short and too urgent, or as being kicked into the long grass and not being treated urgently enough. Lord Smith has a huge challenge on his plate, but I and my colleagues, including the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Gregg McClymont), are committed to ensuring that his job is made as easy as possible, so that we can get this new settlement.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Does my right hon. Friend recall that the constitutional convention embraced the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats, civic society and trade unions but that, for reasons of its own, the Scottish National party declined to join it? It is worth remembering that we now have a Scottish Parliament as a direct result of the efforts of John Smith, Donald Dewar and now Lord Steel of Aikwood, as well as the efforts of the many others who, after the failed referendum of 1979, kept the faith.

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend rightly points to the history of engagement by the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats and, later on, the Conservatives. Now, we must hope that the SNP will engage in the process in the right spirit. The interventions from SNP Members this afternoon seem to being going against the spirit of welcoming the Smith commission; they seem to have prejudged it and decided that it will not work. I believe that John Swinney and Linda Fabiani will enter into the work of the commission in the right spirit to ensure that we can reach common ground; I hope that that is the correct judgment to make. It is the responsibility of all participants to create a package that will meet the ambitious aspirations of the people of Scotland, that will maximise the common ground between the political parties and those not of any party, and that will prove stable for Scotland and the UK more widely.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

I commend the Scottish Chambers of Commerce for the work that it is doing, along with others. This week, the Scotland Institute has also highlighted some important deficiencies in the nationalists’ arguments on defence. Our papers on devolution, on the currency and on financial services are setting out the arguments and analysis so that Scotland can make an informed choice. I remain confident that we will decide to stay part of the United Kingdom.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

May I commend my right hon. Friend on the positive case that he is making? As he has just been joined on the Treasury Bench by the Secretary of State for Defence, will he ensure that all Government Departments including the Ministry of Defence take every opportunity to examine critically the defence proposals of the Scottish National party and the Scottish Government, which have yet again been the subject of strong criticism in an independent report this week?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a very important point. I can assure him that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence is very much engaged in this entire debate. Central to that debate will be the SNP’s attempt to have it both ways by reluctantly and belatedly signing up for NATO—three quarters of Scots support it, so that was perhaps inevitable—while not being willing to accept the obligations and rules that go with it, including a nuclear umbrella as part of the strategic concept.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Lady is entirely right to focus on the need for us to move on from the process arguments to the issues of substance for families across Scotland. I am delighted that yesterday in the Privy Council the section 30 order was approved so that now we will have a legal, fair and decisive referendum. In that referendum, we have to discuss the big issues. As we have seen this week with the legal paper, which will be followed by others on the issues she mentions, there are some big questions that need to be debated—and so far no answers from the Scottish National party.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that if the outcome of the referendum is to engage the confidence of the Scottish people, the campaign must be conducted with candour and transparency? This week the Government published their view of the legal consequences of independence. Is it not time for those who argue for independence to do the same?

[Michael Moore]

It has been a curious week, but my right hon. and learned Friend is right to highlight that at times the Scottish National party has not been clear whether to embrace the opinions of our legal experts or to lambast them. The great merit of this document is that we have now laid out all the key arguments, backed up by the most impressive legal opinions, and nothing has come forward from the Scottish Government.

Constitutional Law

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point that reinforces the views of his colleagues, and I recognise that this matter is important to Members on all sides of the House. It will now be an issue for the Scottish Parliament to consider, and I am confident that in the political debate across Scotland the role of the armed forces and voting will be properly considered.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

The exchanges of the last moment or two have raised a broader question. Once responsibilities are handed to the Scottish Parliament, what will be the role of this place in monitoring the issue and ensuring—so far as we can—that the objectives of fairness and decisiveness are properly maintained?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend highlights an important issue and principle. In the order and the political agreement that sits alongside it, we set out what we believe should happen when the referendum process is resolved in the Scottish Parliament. As I said earlier, we are observing and honouring the principles of devolution so that when a matter is devolved from this place to the Scottish Parliament, it becomes that Parliament’s responsibility, including all the details and everything that goes with it. We are not, however, disfranchised from the political debate. Plenty of MSPs offered views on this process long before it went anywhere near the Scottish Parliament, and I am confident that lots of MPs will contribute to the debate long after it has left this place, and, if it is passed, the other place as well.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, whom I saw in the games-maker uniform and who was very helpful when I visited Hampden for the United States versus France women’s football game—clearly he has talents for things other than politics. He makes an important point. The volunteering legacy is one of the most important parts of the games—perhaps one of the more unexpected parts—and I hope that that legacy will be evident in Glasgow in two years and that people across the whole of Scotland will take part.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Would my right hon. Friend like to take the opportunity to congratulate that Scottish gold medallist, Mr Andy Murray, on his remarkable marathon triumph in the US? Has he noticed that the term “Scolympian”, coined by the Scottish First Minister, appears rapidly to have fallen into disuse? Also, has he heard of any Scottish competitors selected either for the Olympics or Paralympics, or any medallist in either games, complaining that they were representing the United Kingdom, not Scotland?

[Michael Moore]

I join my right hon. and learned Friend in congratulating Andy Murray on his Olympic gold medal and on securing his first grand slam title—an immense achievement that is being celebrated the length and breadth of the country. The Olympic games demonstrated the great benefits of working together, whether in terms of financing, training or, indeed, competing—our first Olympic gold was won by a Scot and somebody from the south-west of England. That was great and perhaps makes the point that we are better together.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

I thought that the hon. Gentleman’s party had belatedly and even grudgingly welcomed the fact that the Scotland Act 2012 has now set in place the biggest transfer of financial powers north of the border, including borrowing powers, the Scottish rate of income tax and the transfer of stamp duty land tax. The debate to which he refers, which we all need to get on with, is the one about independence. That is why the UK Government are absolutely committed to ensuring that we get the necessary evidence and analysis, working with experts, academics and outside bodies to ensure that we are equipped for that great debate across the country.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Does my right hon. Friend consider that Scotland being part of the United Kingdom is an important benefit in any international trade disputes? I particularly have in mind the efforts of the United States some years ago to restrict the import of the finest quality cashmere goods from his own constituency, in a dispute about bananas. Was the fact that Scotland was part of the United Kingdom an important factor in ensuring a proper resolution of that issue?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. It was critical to us in the borders, and to the producers of luxury goods the length and breadth of Scotland, that we were part of the United Kingdom. We had great clout within the European Union and could negotiate within the World Trade Organisation to get the right outcome. Our position in the world, the protection of our citizens and the future of our economy are the three key strands that we will examine to ensure that we are well informed in this great debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Wednesday 22nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

Honestly, the hon. Gentleman has a bit of a cheek talking about a lack of detail when his party cannot spell out what the currency situation would be in an independent Scotland, what the national debt might look like and how it might deal with pensions and financial regulation. It is absolutely clear that we must make the most fundamental decision on Scotland’s future in a clear-cut and decisive way. The debate about devolution will be ongoing and I very much look forward to being part of it.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

My right hon. Friend has spelt out the absence of detail given by members of the Scottish National party in this House. Has he impressed on the First Minister, in the opportunities he has had to do so, the First Minister’s unequivocal obligation to explain to the people of Scotland not just the process of independence but the consequences and costs of it and the length of time it would take to implement?

Scotland’s Constitutional Future

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

The currency question will, of course, also be an issue in the referendum debate. The right hon. Gentleman draws on a lot of experience of the relevant legislation, and he makes an important point. When we hold the substantive debate—which must happen sooner rather than later—it is important that we can turn to agreed sources of information. We can consider that issue at a later date, but I accept the point the right hon. Gentleman makes.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

I am well aware of the convention that Governments do not publish legal advice, but, as my right hon. Friend has pointed out, this is a decision that can almost be described as unique because it would bring to an end hundreds of years of history. May I therefore urge him to reconsider whether the advice received by the Government should be published so as to achieve the clarity that the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) spoke about in relation to statistics?

I welcome today’s announcement, especially because political, economic and social uncertainty for the next two years would be deeply damaging to the people of Scotland. Does my right hon. Friend join me in wondering why those who are so confident of the case for independence are so unwilling to countenance a referendum now? Could it be that the bravehearts are no longer quite so brave as before?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend makes an important point: over the past few months they have been strangely quiet about the need to get on with this referendum on an issue for which they have campaigned over many generations.

I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for welcoming today’s announcement. In respect of the legal advice, may I advise him to look carefully at the consultation paper and the clear view about the authority in the Scotland Act? I am absolutely certain that that opinion is right, and as a result we need to ensure that the Scottish Parliament has the authority to pass a referendum Bill and get on with addressing this most important decision.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s passion for Scotland’s independence, but I wish it were shared with some intention to get on with the debate. The chairman of the independence campaign is sitting beside him. What are they scared of? Let us get on with it.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

My right hon. Friend has outlined the benefits to Scotland of European Union membership and the uncertainty that would surround those benefits in the event that Scotland were to be independent. Does he agree that it would help to resolve that uncertainty if the Scottish Government published the legal advice they have had on the point, so that it may contribute properly to the debate?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a very important point. The idea that we would somehow simply get membership of the European Union with complete agreement, without discussion and without needing to worry about the terms of negotiation is quite fanciful. It is a journey into the unknown and we need to have the detail.

Scotland Bill

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I am very grateful to Members who have taken part in all the different debates on the Bill, in particular those from the Opposition parties, members of the Scottish Affairs Committee and the many others who have examined the Bill closely during its passage through the House. Today, we have had important additional contributions by the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie), my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) and the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), among others.

The Bill delivers the key coalition commitment, set out in our programme for government, to implement the proposals of what we know as the Calman commission. The commission, established in the last Scottish Parliament, had the support of a wide cross-section of society in Scotland. Its membership included representatives of the three main United Kingdom political parties, local government, experts in Scots law, business, education and the trade unions.

Under the chairmanship of Sir Kenneth Calman, the commission gathered evidence from a wide range of sources and engaged directly with people in Scotland through detailed consultations, public engagement events, oral evidence and survey evidence. The commission reported to both the Scottish Parliament and the previous UK Government. At the general election in 2010, all three main UK-wide parties had manifesto commitments to take forward the recommendations made by the commission. Those commitments are being delivered in the Bill.

As Members are aware, the Bill will introduce a new Scottish rate of income tax, and it will fully devolve responsibility for stamp duty land tax and landfill tax to the Scottish Parliament. It will provide for new tax-raising powers to be created at the request of the Scottish Parliament, and it will introduce a new capital borrowing power and extend the current borrowing powers of Scottish Ministers. When combined with the existing tax-raising powers of the Scottish Parliament, it will provide Scottish Ministers with a total of £12 billion- worth of financial powers. That is a hugely significant package, which represents the largest ever transfer of financial powers from Westminster to Scotland. It is a radical but responsible step.

The Bill is not about transferring power for power’s sake; it is about creating accountability. By taking on the responsibility for raising the taxes required to fund the spending decisions that they take, the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Ministers will be more accountable and better equipped to respond to Scotland’s needs within the UK.

The Bill has been the subject of detailed scrutiny on the Floor of the House and by the Scottish Affairs Committee. The debate has been animated, even lively at times, such is the strong feeling and the keen interest in it that is felt throughout the House. However, our proposals have not just been scrutinised at Westminster. After the introduction of the Bill, the Scottish Parliament established a Scotland Bill Committee to assess the measure and the supporting package set out in the Command Paper, “Strengthening Scotland’s Future”. The Scotland Bill Committee issued a detailed 240-page report on the measure. The Committee’s first and main conclusion was that the Scottish Parliament should support the Scotland Bill. In the subsequent plenary vote, the Scottish Parliament voted overwhelmingly in favour of a legislative consent motion, agreeing to the Bill by a margin of 121 to three, with support from the Scottish Government. I am grateful to all parties for their support.

Since then, there have been elections to the Scottish Parliament, and I congratulate the Scottish National party on its victory. A new Scotland Bill Committee—meeting for the first time today—will examine the measure in the Scottish Parliament. I welcome that further scrutiny. However, given the previous Scottish Government’s support for the Bill, I look forward to that support continuing. In fact, I expect that it will have been strengthened by the package of amendments that the Chancellor and I announced on 13 June.

The amendments were based on the valuable report of the Scottish Affairs Committee, and also on the report from the Scotland Bill Committee that the Scottish Parliament endorsed so strongly. The amendments that we tabled on Report were based on the evidence that we received from the two Committees. The amendments to the package will ensure that Scottish Ministers have greater flexibility to exercise their new powers effectively.

We continue to believe that the package set out in the Bill and the Command Paper, based on cross-party consensus, meets the objective of strengthening Scottish devolution within the United Kingdom.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

May we take it that, as a result of the earlier proceedings, Government new clause 13 is now part of the Bill? If so, is that a confirmation of the fact that in any matter involving human rights, the Supreme Court is the final arbiter, notwithstanding some of the childish and petulant outbursts that we have heard north of the border in recent weeks?

[Michael Moore]

First, I confirm what my right hon. and learned Friend suggests. New clause 13 is now part of the Bill that will go to the House of Lords for scrutiny. Like him, I regret the tone of some of the remarks made against judges in the Supreme Court in recent weeks. I welcome the broad support for the idea that people in all parts of the United Kingdom should enjoy the same rights under the courts.

Scotland Bill

Debate between Lord Campbell of Pittenweem and Michael Moore

Thursday 27th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

I quite agree with my hon. Friend, who puts his point in such an elegant way.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

I hope that my right hon. Friend is not accusing the Scottish National party of inconsistency. Its attitude towards the Calman commission is entirely consistent with its attitude towards the Scottish Constitutional Convention, which it also declined to join.

[Michael Moore]

Once again, my right hon. and learned Friend puts it very elegantly.

As I was saying before that brief diversion, the fiscal powers included in the Bill are not limited to tax; they extend to borrowing as well.