Middle East: UK Military Deployments

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister, being a good Scot, will perhaps know the Scottish Gaelic welcome, “One hundred thousand welcomes”. I am happy to join in repeating the welcome to him. He has already referred to the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, which is part of the deployment. A little further on in the Statement, the Secretary of State said:

“Four RAF flights carrying over 74 tonnes of aid have landed in Egypt. I am considering whether RFA Argus and RFA Lyme Bay can support medical and humanitarian aid provision”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/12/23; col. 211.]


Has that decision been taken? If not, does not the deterioration we see on a daily basis in relation to medical and humanitarian aid suggest that, if it is to be taken, it ought to be taken fairly quickly?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point. I am sure he knows that my right honourable friend is out in that part of the world at the moment; that is part of the conversations that are going on. The whole question of humanitarian aid is obviously uppermost in people’s minds. We have already supplied more than 70 tonnes of humanitarian aid, I think, but the difficulty is getting it into Gaza, of course. The Rafah entrance point is under severe congestion and there are stockpiles of aid ready to go in. One reason why conversations are going on at the moment is to see whether any other route can be negotiated with the Israel Defence Forces and the Israeli Government to get aid into Gaza; every avenue is being looked at.

King’s Speech

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a patron of Caabu, the Council for Arab-British Understanding. I welcome the noble Earl to the Dispatch Box and offer my congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Belgravia. If he speaks as well as he writes, we will do very well out of him.

There is no shortage of issues for this debate, as we have already heard. In welcoming the future noble Lord, Lord Cameron, to the office of Foreign Secretary, I at least have hope of a more productive dialogue with the European Union, but I suspect that the most urgent issue on his agenda will continue to be the plight of the Palestinians living, or attempting to live, in Gaza.

Let me repeat the two imperatives with which I began the last time we discussed this issue. First, there is no place for anti-Semitism, either in public or private, in our country. Secondly, Israel has a right to take proportionate action to protect its citizens and territory in light of the vicious, callous and barbaric attack of Hamas. But we, in turn, are entitled to question the exercise of that right.

Proportionality depends on circumstances. Let me offer this clarification: action in self-defence must be proportionate in method, but the results of any such method should themselves be proportionate. There are terrible and continuing events by the action of Hamas, but the Government of Israel do not have carte blanche. If you rely on international law for the advantage it gives, you cannot ignore the obligation it creates in return.

It is said on behalf of the Israeli Government that the damage to life, limb and property as a result of their military action can be described as “collateral”. It does not seem collateral to those who have been injured, and even less so to those members of families where whole generations have been lost. What does the euphemism “collateral” mean? I suggest that it cannot be used to describe severe damage that is known to be inevitable. The more damage done to civilians and property in Gaza, the greater the risk that similar organisations and countries sympathetic to Hamas may seek to intervene.

We should now ask what victory will look like. Who will take responsibility for the homeless, the recovery of the injured and the rebuilding of Gaza? The cost of reconstruction, social and physical, is increased by every action of so-called “collateral damage”. A military solution will not resolve these issues, but who would come to a political conference? Hamas, if defeated, is unlikely to do so, and Israel if victorious will see no reason to do so either.

Gaza will be a wasteland—just the circumstances Hamas will try to exploit for recruitment. Would it not be an irony if the present action became a recruiting sergeant for the terrorist organisation Hamas?

The truth is that the least-damaging outcome would be a ceasefire as soon as possible. That would ensure an opportunity for hospitals to be properly serviced and their patients properly cared for—no more pictures of premature babies fighting for their lives. For the preservation of the life, limb and dignity of the Palestinians in Gaza, there is no valid option other than a ceasefire.

Defence Command Paper Refresh

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I want to return to the issue of expenditure in due course, but before I do, I associate myself with the remarks made about the Secretary of State. He has performed his responsibilities in an outstanding fashion, with great commitment. Of course, it is perhaps helpful that in his particular case he was a serving officer in Her Majesty’s Army.

On expenditure, does the Minister agree that what the Government are seeking to do when it comes to expenditure is to create a virtue out of necessity? In putting that question to her, I have regard to the contents of page 3 of the document and, in particular, the paragraph on the left-hand side which begins:

“After three decades of drawing the post-Cold War ‘peace’”.


The Minister herself referred to part of the language thereafter. I want to unpack that language, if I may. It is clear that the 2.5% which is set out there depends on GDP. The estimated GDP for the United Kingdom economy this year is 0.3%. It does not seem to me to be a figure which would allow any movement towards 2.5%.

The other point that I want to make, and the Minister has already referred to it, relates to

“as the fiscal and economic circumstances allow”.

That is an entirely subjective test to be made at the whim, one might say, of the Government of the time. It is a test which, for example, could be blown away if the Government of the time were more enthused about expenditure on health or education, or something of that kind. Since we are talking about the Secretary of State, it is right to remember that there was a very public attempt by him to persuade the Prime Minister that more money in real terms should be made available for the defence budget. I am rather surprised by the expression—and the Minister may be able to help me with what exactly is meant by it—

“this ambitious trajectory also enables our modernisation for the challenges of the future”.

The trajectory is not only ambitious; it is entirely without foundation or substance.

We get some illustration of where this approach leads us if we look across the page at the paragraph that says:

“That does not just mean more ships, tanks and jets—indeed in this document there are deliberately no new commitments on platforms at all”.


The Minister has heard me—on a number of occasions—ask about the number of F35s that the United Kingdom is going to pursue, in order to ensure that those pilots who have been assigned to fly with that aircraft actually get the opportunity of flying one. I have heard it suggested that they should spend their time on simulators. Is that a serious suggestion? Respectfully, it seems to me that the Government’s ambitions are set out, but the substance by which they could be achieved seems to be a long way from the contents of at least page 3 of this document.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

First, I thank the noble Lord for his kind comments about the Secretary of State. When we talk about budget, we deal with two things: reality, and what this Government believe is a reasonable and attainable objective. Let me deal with the reality. Defence has received an increase to its budget in the face of very difficult economic circumstances. That is recognition of the seriousness with which this Government take the current security environment and their responsibility to protect the nation and help it prosper.

The Prime Minister said—this is a Conservative Prime Minister speaking; I cannot speak for any other party—that we are committed to increased spending over the longer term to 2.5% of GDP as fiscal and economic circumstances allow. I accept, up to a point, the noble Lord’s proposition that that is subjective. It is subjective in the sense that the Government will have to interpret how the economy is performing and what the fiscal regime looks like. As the noble Lord is aware, we are trying to reduce the debt and bring inflation down, and I am confident that we can reach a position of economic stability in due course, but that reflects a Conservative Government’s pledge, and we want to hold good to it. That is partly because we believe in defence, and secondly because we think it is an attainable aspiration.

As I said in response to an earlier question, the equipment plan has been published. The noble Lord raised the training of F35 pilots. We have contracted out some training in order to seek help from Italy. That is happening but we maintain our operational obligations and we would never compromise the safety of our pilots or the professionalism of their status by doing anything that underperformed or threatened their training integrity. I am satisfied that the training regime is perfectly satisfactory; it is robust and is delivering the skills we need.

Warrior Capability Sustainment Programme

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I have admitted at this Dispatch Box, and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has indicated similarly, that over successive Governments there has been a hollowing out of the land capability, but my noble friend will accept that there is now an exciting programme for development. I have referred to Boxer and Ajax, and we have the exciting prospect of the armoured future brigades. I point out to my noble friend that the equipment plan for the Army is £41 billion over 10 years, so I hope my noble friend is reassured that very serious planning is in place to augment the land capability.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, regretfully, it seems to me the Minister has not answered the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. Warrior was first commissioned in 1984 and, as we have heard, its upgrade has been cancelled. In spite of optimistic noises, there is as yet no service date for Ajax, and it is exactly the same position in relation to Boxer. If British Army infantry had to be deployed now, which armoured fighting vehicle would they have in support?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I do not share the noble Lord’s pessimistic assessment. As I have pointed out, there is in place an exciting programme of land vehicles. For Boxer, initial operating capability will be achieved in 2025. We anticipate that very good progress is being made on Ajax, and they will come into play later on in this decade. I point out to the noble Lord that, as he is aware, we have Warrior functioning; it is part of the transition. We have Challenger 2, and we are upgrading to Challenger 3. We have got a perfectly well-equipped Army. We observe our obligations to NATO and we observe our obligations to keep this country safe.

Ukraine

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I very much regret that I cannot accept either the analysis or the conclusions of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. However, I know from personal experience that he is a man of principle and commitment; I must say, I very much admire the fact that he has consistently argued against the overwhelming opinion of support for Ukraine and what it is doing in both this House and the other place.

It is a particular pleasure to follow my friend the noble Lord, Lord Soames. His lineage is beyond reproach; likewise his contribution to this debate. I look forward to hearing him again, not least when we are both members of the International Relations and Defence Committee where he will, I am sure, make a much-valued and well-informed contribution.

On analysis, it seems to me, perversely, that Ukraine presents both certainty and uncertainty. We see daily certainty on the part of Russia’s illegal brutality. Reference has already been made to Russia’s aim in the debate, but I would put things slightly differently: it is clearly to dismantle the state of Ukraine, destroy its infrastructure and eradicate its identity. Ukraine’s aim is to survive. That is an uncertain aim, not least because it has lost 40% of its economy and 25% of the value of its currency. It has also given up 15 million refugees and we see its infrastructure being destroyed daily. Russia, on the other hand, is certain in its conduct. Ukraine is uncertain in its future. The only thing that they have in common is the fact of the casualties—the dead and injured—the precise numbers of which are not being revealed but are certainly estimated to be very substantial indeed.

Out of that, the conclusion is inevitable: to survive, Ukraine must win. On the other hand, leaving aside the possible political and other consequences for Mr Putin, Russia can afford to lose. Its economy has survived sanctions with a little help from its friends—albeit with damage, as the noble Lord, Lord Howell, pointed out. Its infrastructure is untouched. Its alliances have survived. Its statehood has suffered nothing. It is still proving an obstacle to the activities of the Security Council of the United Nations.

Let me put my conclusion a little more dramatically. Ukraine must win or be destroyed. As well as that, and of equal importance in the long run, is that if the credibility of NATO is to be preserved, Ukraine must not be destroyed. This involves the continued supply of top-quality equipment to Ukraine. However, top-quality equipment comes with some obligations. It requires top-quality maintenance and top-quality training. If these things are necessary for the proper use and taking into action of tanks, they are so much truer when we consider the possibility of fast jet aircraft. Let us remember that the older the aircraft, the more demanding the maintenance.

I question whether the United Kingdom has sufficient aircraft to release fast jets while maintaining the defence of the home country and fulfilling our obligations to NATO. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, referred to the combat air patrols. I add that we maintain a flight in the Falklands for obvious reasons. I add that the Quick Reaction Alert, based at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Coningsby, necessarily requires the presence of Typhoon aircraft. I am still tempted to call it Eurofighter, but in the interests of unanimity I will call it the Typhoon.

Notably, the Prime Minister has promised pilot training but not aircraft. That is a well-informed decision. I have sought to raise in writing with the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, who will close this debate, that there are some legal implications to be drawn from Russia having used an aerial bombardment of drones armed with missiles to mount indiscriminate attacks on infrastructure and citizens of Ukraine, contrary to the principles of humanitarian law. If it could be established that the manufacturers of these drones and the suppliers in Iran knew what they were likely to be used for and the extent to which they would breach the principles of humanitarian law, liability could be attached to them also. The issue is worth investigation. Without sounding too dramatic, I rather think that the principle was established at Nuremberg.

This issue will not be resolved by economic sanctions or diplomacy. It will be won or lost on the battlefield. That is the imperative for the supply to Ukraine of the means to win. This is a bloody war, and we are in for the long haul. I leave your Lordships with not a prediction but a possibility. In the event that Mr Putin were successful, might not triumphalism encourage him to turn his attention to Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia? If Mr Putin were defeated, for his own survival he might then be tempted to turn on Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. If that were his conduct in either circumstance, we most certainly would be in for the long haul, because that would trigger Article 5.

Integrated Review: Update

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, are the Government not embarrassed that they have had to admit to our closest ally, the United States, that the British Army can no longer put a fully equipped armoured division in the field? If they are not embarrassed, they should be.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Lord will understand that, in this day and age, we cannot look at one aspect of capability on its own—that is not how we deal with and address threats now. The key to how we operate is, first, co-operation with allies; it is also agility in how we respond and making sure that we have the technology and equipment to respond. Although there is no denying—and I have not attempted to deny—that we have seen a hollowing out of our land capability over some decades, it would be quite wrong to give the impression that MoD in the UK does not have a very solid capability: we do. It is important, particularly having regard to the instability in other parts of the world, that we do not talk down our Armed Forces, not least for the morale of the men and women who serve so bravely in them.

Ukraine: Challenger 2 Tanks

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes, there is a lot of sympathy with the point the noble Baroness makes. She is perhaps aware that engagement is going on. The Chief of the Defence Staff is meeting NATO CHODs today and tomorrow. The Secretary of State will be in Estonia tomorrow and the noble Baroness is quite correct that at the donor conference being hosted by the United States at Ramstein, the Secretary of State and the Chief of the Defence Staff will be present. There is a recognition that, despite the donation of tanks to date —and I think I am correct in saying that the United States, the United Kingdom, France and Poland have been donating tanks—there is a quantum step that could be taken with the addition of the Leopard tanks.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that the House supports, without qualification, the supply of arms to Ukraine, but are we not entitled to credible evidence that the Government are even now replenishing our own stocks of military equipment so as to maintain, now, the credibility and the capability of our own Armed Forces?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I know that the noble Lord takes a keen interest in this and has posed similar questions before. I can reassure the House that the Secretary of State is cognisant of this and indeed commented in his Statement in the other place on Monday that we are very closely engaged with industry, as are our allied partners, because we are not in a silo in respect of industry supply and security of the supply chain. We are having to work with partners to ensure that, holistically, industry is able to understand demand and plan accordingly to supply it. Certainly, we are confident that we have retained sufficient equipment and ammunition so that we are able to undertake our primary responsibility to the security of the United Kingdom.

Afghanistan: Independent Inquiry

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I will deal first with the matter of previous investigations. The noble Lord will be aware that significant investigations and reviews have already been undertaken by the MoD to investigate the allegations. That includes through service police investigations; reference was made to Operations Northmoor and Cestro. Steps have also been taken to improve the service justice system, and the inquiry will take all this into account.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, I said that the Secretary of State proposed back in May that progress should be made on looking at an inquiry. I cannot specifically comment on what my right honourable friend Mr Heappey said in the other place on 14 July; I would need to look at Hansard. I think it would be for him to respond to the noble Lord’s challenge or charge that he did not fully disclose to Parliament what the current situation was. Obviously I am not privy to what he knew, and it will be for him to address these matters.

As I previously indicated, a process was already under way to look at the possibility of a statutory inquiry. On the “Panorama” programme itself, the Royal Military Police has independently requested material from several sources, and legal engagement continues to secure access to that material, but as yet no new evidence has been received. This matter will now pass to the inquiry and to Lord Justice Haddon-Cave to pursue whatever channels of evidence he wants to procure.

I do not think there is anything more I can offer the noble Lord. He will see from the terms of reference that this goes much wider than just the two events investigated under Northmoor and Cestro. There is a very wide remit for the inquiry and for Lord Justice Haddon-Cave to investigate a whole raft of things. To go back to the earlier point on which I think we are all agreed, if anything needs to be discovered and to come out, it is in the interests of all those who serve this country bravely and with the highest standards of professionalism that their reputations are kept intact. If there has been any wrongdoing, this inquiry will seek to uncover that.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, like others, I too hold our armed services in high esteem. As the Minister has just pointed out, this makes it all the more necessary that we should have an inquiry of the kind that we are discussing.

I begin by acknowledging that the appointment of Lord Justice Haddon-Cave is a very good sign, not least because his previous experience involves other elements of the military. He will therefore start with an advantage compared with someone who might, for example, have spent all his time in the Chancery Court, however worthwhile that time might have been.

The procedure and conduct of this inquiry are to be a matter for the judge. I observe in the description a reference to the fact that closed hearings may be held. Since there is no reference otherwise, does that mean that evidence may be heard in public, always within the discretion of the presiding judge?

The third and last point I want to make is this: I have some limited experience of responsibility in my party in relation to defence. The Saville inquiry took 12 years to produce a report—Saville being, of course, an analysis of what took place on what came to be called Bloody Sunday—while the Chilcot inquiry into the second Gulf War lasted six years. One appreciates the finely balanced tension between detail and getting it right but, the longer the issue is dragged out, the more difficult it may be for people to believe that the word “expeditiously”, which was used in the Statement made in the other place, has any real meaning.

I appreciate that the Minister cannot give any undertakings, but it might perhaps be enough for me to suggest that the issue of “expeditiously” is one that the Ministry of Defence should impress as reasonably as it can upon Lord Justice Haddon-Cave when he begins his inquiry in full.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

On the first point raised by the noble Lord, my understanding is that the evidence will be heard in closed hearings. As the noble Lord will understand, we are dealing with a lot of classified information. I thought the noble Lord was going to ask me whether it was truly independent to have this inquiry based in the MoD building; that is happening because the inquiry team will require access, certainly to classified IT, and that cannot be routinely accessed outside the MoD. To reassure your Lordships, this was a decision made by Lord Justice Haddon-Cave and it will ensure that the inquiry can proceed efficiently.

On timescale, there is a mutual interest on the part of the MoD and the inquiry in trying to come to conclusions without the passage of an unduly excessive period of time. Looking at the terms of reference, we see that we are dealing with fairly well-defined circumstances and situations. Lord Justice Haddon-Cave, with his panel for the inquiry board, will have his own view of what he wants to focus on. While it is the case that many investigations have taken place—this has already been referred to—it does mean that some body of evidence will be available and it will be possible for Lord Justice Haddon-Cave to come to his own conclusion about where he wants to reach for his new evidence.

When I say I think there is a mutual interest, the MoD would certainly like to see this concluded expeditiously, and I think Lord Justice Haddon-Cave will want to do that. But the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, is correct: we do not want to compromise the purity of the investigation by feeling that we have our foot on the accelerator just to come up with a result. That would be an unfortunate conflict. That is why the MoD will be very careful about any engagement, because we do not want to give any impression that we are trying in any way to influence this inquiry. To me, the value of the inquiry is its independence. The noble Lord will understand that there is a mutual interest in everyone hoping that it can get its work under way, procure its evidence, begin to draw its conclusions and make recommendations in a reasonably swift period.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

If the Minister will tolerate me intervening again for a moment, the terms of reference say under the heading of “Method”:

“As such, the procedure and conduct of the Inquiry are to be directed by the Inquiry Chair. There will be closed hearings and all necessary steps taken to protect sensitive material and the security of witnesses”,


but they do not say that all hearings will be closed. That ambiguity probably ought to be resolved in some way, lest there should be expectations that are not fulfilled.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I hear the noble Lord and I will certainly seek to obtain further clarification. I rather took it at face value—that there will be closed hearings, as a statement of fact—but I will go back and double check.

Ukraine: Russian Drone Attacks

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

We have been very careful as a country, whether acting bilaterally with Ukraine or in consort with our allies, to ensure that we are responding to what Ukraine says it needs and what Ukraine’s armed forces have identified as the necessary weaponry for them. That is a very important message to listen to, and we have been endeavouring to respond to it as best we can.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, following on from the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, has the Attorney-General been consulted about the legal liability of countries that supply weapons to other countries in the knowledge that they will be used against civilian targets, contrary to humanitarian law?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I do not know whether the Attorney-General has been consulted, but the noble Lord will be aware that Iran, for example, is breaching United Nations Security Council resolutions. If it continues to do so, there will be continued pressure at United Nations level to address that. We all take very seriously the involvement of Iran and, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, indicated, if Russia were to expand that procurement base, we would look at that with the utmost gravity.

Fleet Solid Support Ships

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I can only repeat what I said in response to earlier questions: that the majority of these ships will be built in the UK. As I understand the technical situation, the majority of the blocks and modules from which the ships will be assembled will be built at Harland & Wolff’s facilities in Belfast and Appledore. Again, I repeat that this is very good news for British shipbuilding, particular on the back of the recently announced Batch 2 of the five frigates at Govan. This is all indicative of the very good state of the British shipbuilding industry. I refer the noble Lord to what the chief executive of Harland & Wolff had to say:

“I am pleased to see the Government seize the last opportunity to capture the skills that remain in Belfast and Appledore before they are lost for good.”


That is testament to the strength of this decision.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is it a fact that the Government’s dispute with the DUP had something to do with the choice of Harland & Wolff?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As the noble Lord is aware, when it comes to the procurement of complex contracts such as those in which the MoD is frequently engaged, what matters is who has the skills, what the design looks like, and what offers to deliver well for the MoD and as a warship for the British shipbuilding industry.