(1 year, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberNoble Lords are confused: just because there is an item of retained of EU law, it does not mean it is necessarily still valid for the UK. It has been a very useful exercise to go back through the history books to find out about some of this stuff. Much of it is no longer applicable—some of it refers to sugar prices in the 1970s. My favourite bit is a regulation referring to the movement of reindeer between Denmark and Sweden. I am sure noble Lords do not believe that this is something we should retain on our statute book.
My Lords, does the Minister realise that many people are a bit worried that the end product might be the relaxation of some of the standards they have got used to, and that he could end this concern very easily by saying that whatever is changed, it will not worsen the protection currently in place?
I say to my noble friend that we have made it clear that we have no intention of weakening workers’ rights. I know this is a common refrain from the Opposition but let me repeat: UK standards did not depend on EU law. Let me give noble Lords an example. UK workers are entitled to 5.6 weeks of annual leave, compared with the EU requirement of four weeks. We provide a year of maternity leave, with the option to convert parental leave to enable parents to share care. The EU minimum maternity leave is 14 weeks. Our standards are far in excess of those provided by the EU.
(1 year, 11 months ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with trade unions concerning changes to workers’ rights proposed in the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill.
My Lords, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is responsible for labour relations and works closely with trade unions. Engagement is essential for developing and delivering our policies and, during the pandemic, helped to support jobs and keep workers safe. For example, the unions and business worked together to help to deliver a package of economic support through the job protection retention scheme, which protected millions of jobs.
I thank my noble friend for his reply but it is not an Answer to the Question, which was whether the Government had discussed this proposed legislation with the trade union movement, 2 million of whom vote for the party on this side of the House. Does he agree that it would be a good idea to talk to the trade union movement about this? Until that has happened, would it not be a good idea for those parts of the legislation that provide for worker protection not to be revoked without further representation?
We engage with the trade unions regularly. There have been a number of meetings in recent weeks, particularly about strike action, but the retained EU law Bill is not about workers’ rights; it is about retained EU legislation and the consequences that will flow from that. However, there will be a full opportunity to debate that in the House in the near future.
(1 year, 11 months ago)
Lords ChamberAs I said in response to earlier questions, we do not desire or wish to sack any public sector workers in any sectors. We are in the business of increasing the number of public sector workers, not sacking them.
My Lords, I declare my entry in the register of interests. The Explanatory Notes to the Bill say:
“This Bill and subsequent regulations are designed to enable employers to require enough workers to work so as to ensure minimum service levels”.
How will they make them work? I am the president of BALPA, the pilots’ union. We have an understanding with all the airlines that any pilot who feels unfit to fly the plane can declare themselves as such. What about a train driver? Will you say to them, “You’ve got to drive this train, however you feel” or will there be a back-up? Frankly, this legislation is just not thought through. What are the sanctions? You cannot direct people to do this without having some sanctions.
Much has been made of Europe. The European Trade Union Institute, the holding body for the international trade union movement, has fact sheets on 48 countries in Europe. Britain comes well down the list on flexibility of labour. Although a number of countries supposedly have agreements, they do not appear to be enforced. How much study has the Minister done?
My next brief point is that we are taking a chance, are we not? You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. I see here shades of 1972: the dockers in Pentonville prison and a Government completely out of control who then ask the country—as Ted Heath did—“Who runs Britain?” and they say, “Not you, mate.” For the first time in modern history, the Labour Party has committed itself to doing something, which is to repeal this if it becomes an Act. I actually believe the Labour Party, because the Bill is so ridiculous that it could not stand on the statute book anyway. Does the Minister wish to provide us with an autumn of fun and games—because that is when this will stretch on to—or would he like to advise his department to go back to the drawing board and see whether this is a sensible way of solving a problem which probably does not exist?
There were a huge number of questions in my noble friend’s statement. He asked me for examples of other European countries, which I am happy to provide to him. In Spain, France and Belgium, there are statutory minimum service levels in the ambulance and fire services. Many other European countries have statutory bans on border service workers striking at all. He raised the spectre of people going to prison, but that is not the case. There is no element of criminality involved in this. This is not the criminal law; it is the civil law. He asked me how it would work in practice. When a minimum service level is set, an employer will issue enough work notices to sufficient workers to ensure that the key sectors are covered in order to provide those minimum service levels.
(2 years ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government what plans the Prime Minister has to meet representatives of the Trades Union Congress, as well as individual trade unions, in the light of the current economic situation.
The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is responsible for labour relations and works closely with trade unions. Engagement is essential to developing and delivering our policies, and during the pandemic it helped to support jobs and to keep workers safe. For example, the unions and business worked together to help deliver a package of economic support through the job retention scheme that has protected millions of jobs.
My Lords, can the Minister request his colleagues to make clear what the basis is for the Government’s current policy, which comes across as rather dismissive and uncaring in view of the rapid rise of inflation? Can I ask him to encourage the Government, in view of the sharp rise in inflation since the last pay review body reports, to ask the pay review bodies to reconvene and bring forward in January proposals for an interim settlement that takes account of the recent rapid rise in inflation and of staffing levels, such as the 600-midwife shortfall reported to me by the Royal College of Midwives this morning?
I thank my noble friend for that question but, as he knows, the Government have said that they will accept the recommendations from the independent pay review bodies in full. We certainly hope that the trade unions will call off the actions that are causing so much misery to billions of people all over the country.
(2 years, 2 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and draw attention to my entry in the register as president of a TUC-affiliated union.
My Lords, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is responsible for labour relations and works closely with trade unions. Positive engagement is essential to developing and delivering our policies, and during the pandemic it helped to support jobs and keep workers safe. That engagement is ongoing and remains largely positive.
I do not think I can thank the Minister for that Answer because the Question was about when the Prime Minister was going to meet representatives of the trade union movement. I have come back from the Trades Union Congress at the beginning of this week, where there was dismay that a Government who are looking to build back better and make use of the resources of the British labour force are apparently treating the trade unions with something that approaches disdain and proposing to bring forward legislation that will do nothing whatever to improve industrial relations. So I ask the Minister to answer the Question: does he know when the Prime Minister will meet the TUC, and, if not, will he get on to Downing Street and advise them that they should?
(2 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberWe have said that we will legislate when parliamentary time allows. Many of the proposals are being taken forward in Private Members’ Bills that the Government support, and some do not require legislation or can be done through secondary legislation.
My Lords, it seems to me that we have come some way from when David Cameron asked me to do what I could in the House of Lords to help trade unions. When will we have an employment Bill? Does the Minister not think it a good idea to do a bit of love-bombing of the trade unions, to try to get them, as they always are, to work in the national interest alongside the Government? That will get us the best level of co-operation. They may be not highly unionised jobs but some areas are, particularly in the public services, and we need them on our side.
My noble friend did a good job of working with the trade unions, and of course we are willing to talk to and work with all those who are willing and prepared to work with us.
(2 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberWe are confident that we are meeting all our international obligations. We are not interfering with the right to strike; workers still have the right to take strike action, provided they fulfil the legal tests required. We are confident in our legal advice on this.
My Lords, when these regulations are repealed, will the Government make sure that suitable points are put in place to safeguard worker and consumer safety? Some agencies have objected on the grounds that unqualified people might be drafted in to do these jobs. It is important that safety regulations are in place to look after consumers and workers, whether they are in trade unions or not.
I agree completely with my noble friend’s point. None of these regulations affects the existing safety provisions. Any staff who are drafted in will have to meet all the appropriate safety obligations that existing workers meet.
(2 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask Her Majesty’s Government when the Prime Minister last met with representatives of the Trades Union Congress to discuss how trade unionists can work with the Government to level up the economy and build back better.
My Lords, the Prime Minister last had a meeting with the Trades Union Congress last December. The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy works with trade unions, and positive relationships are essential to developing and delivering our policies. During the pandemic, engaging with the unions was important to our work supporting jobs and keeping workers safe. Continued engagement will support the Government’s ambitious levelling-up agenda.
I thank the Minister for his reply. As he will know, of the 6 million-plus trade unionists, a third vote for the Conservative Party. Indeed, the Labour Party has recently told its members not to go near picket lines, so it has made its position pretty clear. Can the Minister say whether he would consider—since the basic values of many trade unionists are at least small “c” conservative—that it is now opportune for us to make a pitch to them to show that this Government represent many of their core values? We should encourage them to work with us, because we occasionally will go on a picket line.
I will take that as a statement from my noble friend himself rather than the Front Bench. The Labour Party may indeed have told its members not to sit on picket lines, but it did not make any difference at the end of the day. My noble friend makes a serious point of course. Our policies, with record low levels of unemployment and the highest ever minimum wage, are good for workers and we should be proud to say so.
(2 years, 8 months ago)
Lords ChamberI cannot commit to any particular measures, as I said in response to an earlier question. However, we have a very good employment law framework in this country, as evidenced by our unemployment rate, which is less than half that of France—which has a much more rigid employment framework. Therefore, flexible working is a good thing in this country because we have lower unemployment. The best right anyone can have is to have a job. It is right that we do not change the employment law framework until we are sure that any changes will address the needs of businesses and workers in the post-Covid economy.
My Lords, the response from the Government on P&O has been excellent. It has also shown the need for an employment Bill. At the end of this Session, the pledge in the last Queen’s Speech will disappear. However, we need it in the new Queen’s Speech because, at this moment, many workers are applauding what the Government have done with P&O and are looking to them to honour the promise of the employment Bill made two years—it is more urgent now, not less. I ask the Minister to go back to his department and lobby hard for it to be in the Queen’s Speech.
I have heard what my noble friend has said, and I know the close interest which he takes in these matters and his close relationship with the trade unions. I will certainly take his message back to the department but, as he will be aware, I cannot predict what may or may not be in the Queen’s Speech.
(2 years, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I have made this speech on a number of occasions. There are roughly 6 million trade unionists in Britain, and a third of them—2 million—vote for the party on these Benches. I am pleased, on their behalf, to welcome the Bill. It is a good step forward, because we always need to keep in mind the balance between the rights of the workers and those of the employers. This is a good Bill that rights an anomaly, and I hope that it will go further. I know that is difficult, but it is certainly in the right place and it has my personal full support.
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hendy, for moving his technical amendment in order to comply, as he said, with the recommendation of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. While the Government are not convinced that the Bill is the right course of action, we agree with the importance of legislative scrutiny and consistency. The Government therefore welcome the amendment, which would ensure consistency under the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 and the Employment Rights Act 1996—although, as I said, we cannot support the Bill.
I congratulate the noble Lord on bringing the Bill to the House and on enabling this debate on an important subject. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions during Second Reading, which allowed for what I thought was an insightful and important debate on this topic. I also thank the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee for its expert contribution and the noble Lord, Lord Hendy, for tabling his amendment.
As I said at the start, the Government are not convinced that the Bill is the right solution to give greater protection to those in insecure work. We will continue to take steps to protect vulnerable workers, delivering on our ambition to make the UK the best place in the world to work and grow a business.
(3 years, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberThe noble Lord puts his finger on the button as always. We are very keen to introduce it, and any influence he can bring to bear on the Public Bill Committee, or indeed the Prime Minister, would be greatly appreciated.
My Lords, many hard-working UK voters are fed up with the way in which the property market—particularly in London—is used to apparently hide ill-gotten gains, and with the seeming complicity of the UK Government. Do the Government accept that one way of ending this is to add some weight to getting this legislation into this House as soon as possible?
As my noble friend will know, I agree with him. We want to legislate on this as quickly as possible. The UK is one of the world’s largest and most open economies, and the UK and London are among the world’s most attractive destinations for legitimate businesses and overseas investors. That is a good thing, but it exposes the UK to the risk of money laundering. That is why we are being about tackling illicit financial flows through the Economic Crime Plan and why we will proceed with this legislation.
(3 years, 6 months ago)
Lords ChamberThe noble Baroness makes some good points. I agree with her that some of the appalling treatment in places such as Leicester that was highlighted in press articles is unacceptable. Our response to the consultation sets out the high-level proposals for the single enforcement body. We will be developing more detailed plans for the body’s operation and structure in partnership with the existing enforcement bodies. The noble Baroness will be aware that creating the new body will require primary legislation, and timing will depend on the legislative timescale. However, we are committed to ensuring that it has adequate funding for enforcement; we will do that through the spending review, as I mentioned.
The Government have a good record on protecting employment rights enforcement. We have more than doubled the budget for minimum wage enforcement and compliance, which is now over £27 million per year.
My Lords, a number of noble Lords have mentioned the warm words in this Statement. The one-third of active trade unionists who vote Conservative will welcome those warm words from this Government.
I have two specific questions. First, when will the proposed changes in the power of the Certification Officer be made public and put in the public domain for us to discuss? Secondly, does the Minister agree that it is important to balance flexibility with effective protection for workers?
I thank my noble friend for his comments. The legislation will be introduced shortly, and it is important that we balance flexibility with protections. My noble friend feels very strongly about this issue. It is a dynamic, flexible economy that makes the UK such a fantastic place to work and gives us such relatively low levels of unemployment compared to many other European countries. We are the envy of the world in terms of not only our protection for workers’ rights but our flexible economy. The steps that we are taking on enforcement will help the country to build back better by taking a smarter approach to the enforcement of employment law, and will make it easier for the vast majority of responsible businesses to comply with the rules.
(3 years, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberIndeed, the noble Lord makes an important point, but these are all now matters that we can decide for ourselves. Immigration laws are, of course, kept under review, and the new immigration Act will be in force shortly, but we are now allowed to decide these things for ourselves. The EU will no longer be dictating to us how we conduct our own affairs.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that responsible trade unionism is valuable in protecting workers’ rights? However, clearly from time to time the law needs updating, possibly in the way referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Mann. The Minister will know that in 13 years of Labour Governments none of the basic reforms of the Conservative Government who preceded them was repealed. Will the Minister argue for reforms that will be similarly widely accepted?
My noble friend makes an important point. We remember that when we served in the European Parliament we were lobbied many times by UK Labour Governments to try to maintain existing flexibilities in the working time directive and others. Hopefully the Labour Party will return to that path of common sense soon. It is also important to bear in mind that most workers are not members of trade unions. We need to consult with trade unions where they represent workers but to bear in mind the rights of workers who are not represented by trade unions.
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberI thank the noble Lord for his support. The developments on the vaccine are encouraging. It is not my area of responsibility, but we all have our fingers crossed that the vaccine will prove successful, and that we will be able to help the industry through its current short-term difficulties and that it has a bright future ahead.
My Lords, I draw attention to my interest in the register. I ask the Minister to urge on his friend convening the cross-departmental tourism task force the need to take on board the genuine concerns of the trade unions, and in particular pilots, who, because they have a need for a certain amount of flying hours, are being quite challenged on keeping their flying credentials up to date. I hope the Minister will be able to encourage his friend to look across the whole spectrum of problems in the travel industry.
I will indeed pass on my noble friend’s concerns. As I have said, I cannot predict what will be in the announcement tomorrow, but we have been looking very closely at all the problems that exist for the tourism sector, in particular for those who want to travel abroad. I will certainly pass on my noble friend’s remarks.
(4 years, 2 months ago)
Lords ChamberThe noble Lord needs to understand the difficult environment in which Rolls-Royce is operating. Its revenues have fallen off a cliff, and we all know what has happened to the passenger jet market. It has to consolidate its operations across two sites, and that was the commercial decision it took. As I said, we are offering it extensive support and we are in regular and ongoing dialogue.
Will the Minister include trade union representation in any discussions and acknowledge the hard work put in by the two trade unions at Rolls-Royce to maintain in the UK jobs which are vital to keeping a skilled workforce and helping us to build back better?
I know my noble friend feels strongly about these matters. The unions are involved in the aerospace growth partnership, which is our main method of engaging with the UK aerospace industry, and we continue to have regular dialogues with Unite and other unions.
(4 years, 7 months ago)
Lords ChamberOf course, we are always reviewing these measures and acting on scientific advice. I think we all have to accept that that scientific advice will evolve as the knowledge of the virus increases. The noble Baroness, as she usually does, makes an important point: these are things that we keep under constant review, so that we can get the country back to work as quickly as possible.
My Lords, one of the good things that has come out of this crisis has been the way in which people work together and in particular the contribution of the trade union movement to working with the Government. I know that the unions welcome the positive attitude of the Government. I would like a reassurance, which I am sure that the Minister will be happy to give, that they will continue to work with the unions. As these measures wind down, of course there will be a lot of detailed points, but where responsible trade unionism and a listening Government come together, I hope that we can continue to have the good relations that we have had up until now. I welcome the Minister being able to confirm that the good relations with the trade union movement will continue.
I am indeed happy to confirm to my noble friend that we are very happy to work with all responsible trade unions, and we included them in developing this guidance and we are happy with the many constructive contributions that we receive. We continue to work with them on developing sensible guidance for business that gives UK workers the utmost confidence that they can return to work safely. Of course, we will always consider any new, sensible suggestions.
(4 years, 9 months ago)
Lords ChamberI thank the noble Baroness for her questions. Their extent reveals the number of different sectors of the economy that we will need to look at. As she says, they range from sole traders to small businesses and to the very largest companies. We are looking at a comprehensive package. There are a number of different international models that have been introduced. A number of think tanks in the UK have also produced suggestions. They are all being examined at the moment. We are guided by three principles: it has to be a comprehensive package; it has to be co-ordinated; and it has to be coherent. The noble Baroness will understand that we need to look at these things properly. It is no good having a scheme that comes into effect in six months’ time. It needs to work now, it needs to be available and it needs to be deliverable. We are doing all those things, and we will make the appropriate announcements as soon as we possibly can. I understand people’s natural frustration and their wish for urgent action.
I wish to make a very minor but important point. At the moment, if a company is insolvent, the workers do not get paid. They can have worked for several weeks up to the date of insolvency but when insolvency comes, their pay is basically at the mercy of the receiver, or whoever is winding up the company. In the Statement the Minister said that any business that needs cash to pay salaries will be able to access a government-backed loan. In other words, a company that cannot pay salaries but is not becoming insolvent will apparently be able to access it. I know that in its submission to the Government the TUC has asked for a relaxation of the rules on insolvent companies, and I realise that it will probably be beyond the Minister’s pay grade to agree that that will be done, but will he agree to reflect to the Government that this point has been raised and possibly to write to let us know what has been decided? This is a small category, but companies are going to go bankrupt and workers may be denied their wages, while others in companies that have not gone bankrupt will be able to access a loan. It is a small point, but it is very important.
The noble Lord speaks with great authority on these matters. This might be a small point, but I agree with him that it is important. Actually, within my ministerial portfolio I have responsibility for the Insolvency Service, although not for the Treasury and the guarantees that it will provide. I take on board my noble friend’s point and will make sure that it is conveyed to the Chancellor. My noble friend’s intervention is welcome.
(6 years, 3 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and draw attention to my entries in the register of interests.
My Lords, the Prime Minister has been clear that the financial settlement reflects the UK honouring our outstanding commitments made during the period of our membership. Our estimate, based on current assumptions, is that it will fall within the range of £35 billion to £39 billion. This settlement has been put forward within the context of an overall agreement, under Article 50, of the UK’s withdrawal, taking into account the future relationship.
I thank my noble friend the Minister for his Answer. Do HMG realise that while any doubt remains as to whether the debts owed to the EU 27 Governments will be honoured, no Minister or civil servant in any member state can contemplate the UK taking part in any other activities, such as Galileo, which might add to those liabilities and thus increase the debt that might not in the event be paid?
Of course we are committed to the financial settlement in the context of the withdrawal agreement, but if we do not have a withdrawal agreement, that commitment falls away.
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberI was going to mention the noble Lord as responsible for renaming it as the people’s vote in a worthy spin operation, but perhaps he was not involved. I apologise.
The Government’s position remains unchanged, noble Lords will not be surprised to hear, from the time of the first referendum. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky—to mention him—and others that it is essential for our democracy that we respect the result of the referendum. I am pleased to say that this appears to be a position that we share with the Labour Party. Last week the Huffington Post reported that the shadow Foreign Secretary categorically ruled out a second Brexit referendum. She said that,
“we went ahead and had a referendum and we lost it and overwhelmingly, above everything else, we are Democrats, so we have to do as instructed”.
On this one occasion, I agree with Emily.
Furthermore, in response to points made by the noble Lords, Lord Wigley and Lord Kerr, let me make it clear that we will not be seeking an extension of Article 50. We are leaving the EU on 29 March 2019 and we will deliver the necessary legal framework in time.
The Government are delivering a principled and practical Brexit. For our economy, we are developing a deep trading relationship with the EU; for our security, we are building on our close co-operation with the EU to keep all of our citizens safe; for our communities, we are ending free movement and responding to concerns raised during the referendum; for our union, we are meeting our commitments to Northern Ireland, and for our democracy, we are restoring sovereignty to this Parliament. For the UK’s place in the world as a champion of democracy and free trade, we are building on progress made so far in negotiations and the ambitious and credible proposals in our future relationship White Paper and must now redouble our efforts to achieve a sustainable and lasting settlement with our European partners.
Before the Minister sits down, the noble Baroness, Lady Young, and I raised a point on the European Aviation Safety Agency. We asked whether the Minister could write to us dealing with the points we made, and I repeat that request.
As the noble Lord knows, we have made a commitment to remaining part of the European Aviation Safety Agency if that can be negotiated. There are four or five paragraphs in the White Paper on future aviation agreements, but I would be very happy to write to both noble Lords with clarification.