Workforce: Trades Union Congress

Wednesday 19th October 2022 Lords Chamber

Question

15:28

Asked by

[Lord Balfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government when the Prime Minister expects to meet representatives of the Trades Union Congress to discuss problems facing the workforce in the United Kingdom; and what measures they intend to take to alleviate those problems.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and draw attention to my entry in the register as president of a TUC-affiliated union.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is responsible for labour relations and works closely with trade unions. Positive engagement is essential to developing and delivering our policies, and during the pandemic it helped to support jobs and keep workers safe. That engagement is ongoing and remains largely positive.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

I do not think I can thank the Minister for that Answer because the Question was about when the Prime Minister was going to meet representatives of the trade union movement. I have come back from the Trades Union Congress at the beginning of this week, where there was dismay that a Government who are looking to build back better and make use of the resources of the British labour force are apparently treating the trade unions with something that approaches disdain and proposing to bring forward legislation that will do nothing whatever to improve industrial relations. So I ask the Minister to answer the Question: does he know when the Prime Minister will meet the TUC, and, if not, will he get on to Downing Street and advise them that they should?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sure that the Prime Minister does not need my advice as to whether she wishes to meet the Trades Union Congress. The direct answer to my noble friend’s Question is that I have no information that a meeting is scheduled or not.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, Frances O’Grady, the TUC general secretary, will be a welcome addition to your Lordships’ House. Last year, when talking about supply chains and employment, she said:

“Ministers may scratch their heads about how to protect supply chains and fill vacancies. Well, here’s a novel idea. Invite unions in with employers. Get us around the table. And let’s make that industry deliver decent conditions, direct employment and a proper pay rise.”


Does the Minister share my view that this is an eminently sensible suggestion, and will he action it?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are always looking for helpful suggestions to improve supply chains. In fact, Frances O’Grady was in a BEIS meeting with one of my ministerial colleagues in August. We remain open to constructive meetings with trade unions where it is required.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

The noble Lord talked about opportunities for the supply chain. The biggest barrier to growth and prosperity in this country is a shortage of skills, so will the Minister take back the comment that the Government, trade unions and employers must work together to deliver the skills we need? Can the Minister tell us what new initiatives the Government are now bringing in place to deliver the skills that we so badly need?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Skills is an important part of the Government’s agenda; we are spending some £2.5 billion, directed through the Department for Education, on building up skills provision across the economy. We remain open to working with trade unions, employers and whoever has good proposals for the future.

[Lord Hendy (Lab)]

My Lords, this is not just a question of being “open” to working with trade unions; it is a question of whether the representatives of 30 million workers in this country should have a seat at the table to discuss with employers and with government the answers to many of our problems—which cannot be in doubt. Will the Minister reconsider setting up something formal between the TUC, the CBI, representatives of small business and government to look at the problems this country is facing?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I said that we remain open to meeting trade unions. However, the noble Lord’s figures are wrong: trade unions do not represent 30 million workers in this country; only 23% of workers are members of trade unions, so more than three-quarters are not represented by them.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that one of the problems facing workers is ageism? This could be properly dealt with if we had an older people’s commissioner.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I followed the previous exchanges with interest and fully endorse the noble Lord’s job application.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister made comments about the number of trade unionists. Many members of staff in the health service are members of trade unions. We have a situation where there is no funded workforce plan for the NHS, and we are importing doctors and nurses from many developing countries to make up in the shortfalls in this country. Is that not a priority for the Government to talk to trade unions about?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sure that my health department colleagues engage regularly with the trade unions. As the noble Lord says, the membership of trade unions is higher in many public services. I am sure that these contacts are ongoing.