Northern Ireland: On-the-Runs Scheme

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson]

The noble Lord asked about the issues associated with the OTR administrative system in general. I can do no better than to refer him to the Hallett review, which set out in detail a description of the situation. This was a system set up under the previous Government. In so far as we are able, this Government have given the full information that we are aware of in relation to the Hallett review.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, will the Minister explain how a suspect received an on-the-run letter in error relating to a murder that took place post the 1998 peace agreement? Who was responsible for the error and who signed it off?

[Baroness Randerson]

I am sorry to disappoint the noble Lord. I really cannot comment on the details of a specific case.

Northern Ireland: National Crime Agency

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson]

I think the noble and learned Baroness expresses the same view that has been made clear around the Chamber not just today but in previous discussions that we have had on this issue. It is important that we are given this opportunity to discuss it because our frustration and concern need to be heard in Northern Ireland in order to ensure that all the political parties take this issue very seriously indeed.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that it is vital for the security of the whole United Kingdom that the National Crime Agency should be permitted unfettered freedom to operate within Northern Ireland as neither the Police Service of Northern Ireland nor the Garda Siochana will have the necessary expertise and resources to counter effectively the potential threat posed by international terrorists and criminal gangs operating across the United Kingdom’s only land border?

Northern Ireland: Haass Talks

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, for introducing this timely debate and for his supportive interest in Northern Ireland affairs.

I want to make three observations and one plea to the Government. First, it is important to remember how far we have come in Northern Ireland over the past few years. Northern Ireland is a transformed society. The Province is almost unrecognisable from what it was like just a quarter of a century ago. Northern Ireland is a place where people now want to come and to invest, where our young people want to stay and make their lives, and where relative peace and stability are now the norm. That progress has been built on the restoration of devolved powers.

Secondly, we should remember just how slow that progress has been. Though it is now 20 years since the announcement of the first IRA ceasefire and the loyalist ceasefires, and 16 years since the Belfast agreement, it is still only seven years since devolution was restored on a stable and lasting basis—it is fair to say that we never rush these things. So while it is easy to become frustrated with the pace of change, we must not become discouraged. Nor should we have unrealistic expectations about quick solutions to the most difficult issues that have so far eluded us. It is hardly surprising that the issues that have yet to be fully and comprehensively addressed are some of the most difficult. The reality is that it has proved to be easier to share power than to agree what happened in the past.

Thirdly, we should be aware that it is not the problems of flags, parading or the past that currently threaten the process, but the issue of the implementation of the UK coalition Government’s welfare reform policy. It is indeed regrettable that the nationalist parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly have refused to support legislation to implement those reforms.

The cost of this failure to reach consensus, in terms of penalties imposed by the Treasury and IT costs, will quickly increase to hundreds of millions of pounds a year. Given the already constrained fiscal position, cuts of this magnitude would simply not be deliverable and would jeopardize the future viability of devolved government. My party, while opposing aspects of welfare reform in this Parliament, accepts that the parity principle that has served us well in Northern Ireland should be adhered to. In addition, we have proposed to fund from our own budget in Northern Ireland measures designed to alleviate the burden of the reductions in welfare payments on those least able to afford them.

I want to see the parties in Northern Ireland agreeing a way forward on welfare reform. However, if they cannot, my plea to the Government is simple: they must act quickly and, if necessary, legislate in order to save the rest of the devolved settlement. If this issue is not addressed quickly, there will not be a functioning Stormont to consider solutions to other problems, such as the issue of the past.

I trust that in the weeks to come the parties will be given the opportunity and encouragement to find local solutions—but, if they do not, the Government must act to preserve and protect the progress that has been made to ensure that Stormont can continue to function.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Eames (CB)]

My Lords, the voices we have heard in this debate represent among them some of those who have made, on a sacrificial basis, a situation of relative peace, relative progress and relative hope. I am delighted to hear the tributes that have been paid, among others, to those who made that sacrificial attempt to bring us to where we are in Northern Ireland today. In particular, I join my voice to those who have paid tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Trimble.

In my position not as a politician but as the elected leader of a major denomination in Ireland for 22 years —those years spanning much of the worst years of our troubles—it was a privilege to get to know those elected politicians who found themselves in a position to move us towards peace. I was also privileged as a pastor to share with them their emotions, their thoughts and their problems. That is a privilege I will carry with me to my grave.

Listening to the debate this afternoon, I am reminded of two factors that I would beg the Minister to keep in mind when she responds to this debate. First, it is not just political voices that we must listen to today. We have to listen to widows. We have to listen to little children who are now adults. We have to listen to those who are not here to make their voice heard from Northern Ireland but who, through those tremendously devastating years, hoped that they could make trust with some.

The events of the past few days have not just shattered the trust of so many of us but have raised questions that, in their turn, have raised other questions: questions about misleading; questions about lies; and questions of a lack of trust in high places. Whatever we argue about this afternoon, and whatever we disagree about, of course there was a price to be paid for peace, of course things had to be done which were in a grey area, rather than black and white. I accept that, and I know something of the agony through which many decision-makers had to pass to make those decisions and to make those policies a possibility and a brick towards peace, but there is a limit to the way in which the elastic of public trust can be pushed or pulled. I beg the Minister to recognise that in listening to the voices that she has heard in this debate, the voices that she will not hear in this Chamber are saying, “Who do we trust, who can we depend on and what is the honest emotional answer to the grievous memories we have of the past?”.

Secondly, I ask the Minister to remember this. While of course we have to look forward and have our hopes for the future, and while so much has been achieved in the political process for which we must be thankful, I beg the Government to realise that we are talking about a very fragile situation and that one little incident can be multiplied out of all proportion and used to build on mistrust. I therefore share the view that it would have been helpful had we had a Statement at the beginning of this debate, rather than allowing our emotions to build up with other questions. I look forward to the Minister’s response and I pay tribute again to all the Lord Trimbles who have played a part in building this fabric.

It was my privilege when, five years ago—it is hard to believe that it was five years ago but the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, as the former chairman of the Northern Ireland Committee, will know exactly what I am talking about—I was asked by the then Government to co-chair the consultative group on the past of Northern Ireland. We produced many suggestions. I venture to suggest that some of those proposals should been given more serious consideration five years ago than in fact turned out to be the case. Many are now recognising, as they say to me, that we should have given more consideration to some of those proposals for dealing with the past.

I say to the Minister that until we find a way of dealing with the past—not just this incident but the fabric that went to cause the division, the Troubles and the suffering—that involves all those who can make worthwhile decisions in finding a structure to deal with that past, Northern Ireland’s future will go on to have incidents like those of the past few days. I beg the Minister to use her influence with Her Majesty’s Government and all the other Ministers involved so that what we have been agonising over in the past few days never happens again.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for allowing the time to discuss the issue of on-the-runs. To quote the First Minister, the right honourable Peter Robinson MLA,

“This entire incident has been another salutary lesson about the dangers of allowing powers to be exercised by those whose only concern was in appeasing the IRA”.

He said that devolution may be imperfect—indeed, today we are looking at ways of improving devolution—but that no Stormont Administration would ever have allowed that scheme to be put in place. That scheme, he went on,

“was put in place by a direct rule administration. It is appalling that we are now having to deal with the legacy of a process begun so many years ago”.

This issue has caused incredible instability in the Northern Ireland arrangement. The credibility of the justice system is a cornerstone in any democracy. In the weeks and months ahead, I am sure that we must all work together to make sure that the damage which has already been done will be repaired. The need of victims demands no less; the requirement of justice requires no less. I hope that the actions to be taken in future will bring this scandalous episode to an end and that all the efforts which we will make will be well worth while.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Trimble spoke for me regarding the events of last week. I associate myself completely with his remarks. I have two questions arising from what he said, and to which he himself gave voice. I shall repeat them and ask the Minister for replies to them. First, how was this dishonourable and disreputable policy allowed to continue under the current Government, from whom I and many others hoped for better standards and a better approach? Secondly, why was all knowledge and all information about this policy withheld from the devolved institutions when security and justice were passed to them? We have been told repeatedly in this debate that we must respect the devolved institutions and that they must have entire responsibility for those things that are in their Province and devolved to them. Now we hear that the Government themselves have not adhered to that principle. Why?

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Lords Chamber

I could continue with a list of these hypotheticals, but I think I have made the point that, by appeasing the Northern Ireland Executive on such a vital policy matter, the Government are sliding down a slippery slope that will help destroy Northern Ireland’s creative economy, destroy jobs and grievously undermine free speech. This issue is too important for the Government and, with respect, the Labour Party simply to say it is a devolved matter. If we maintain that approach, that will come back to haunt us in ways which we cannot imagine. The most regrettable thing of the lot is that it is the people of Northern Ireland who will pay the price.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, defamation, in common with other civil-law matters, is a devolved area, so the law in Northern Ireland is indeed a matter for the Northern Ireland Assembly. As the Minister stated in Committee, it is essential that we all respect the devolution process—and part of that process is that you have different laws in different parts of the country.

Devolution in Northern Ireland permits the devolved legislature and Executive to develop policies that differ from those in the rest of the United Kingdom. Therefore it is only right and proper that the Northern Ireland Executive should have the opportunity to consult on whether or not the Defamation Act 2013 should apply to Northern Ireland. Indeed, the Minister of Finance and Personnel, Mr Simon Hamilton MLA, has already asked the Northern Ireland Law Commission to assess the Defamation Act 2013. The Northern Ireland Law Commission is an independent body and will undertake a complete public consultation on the issue so that the people of Northern Ireland will have an opportunity to contribute to the discussion. I am sure that noble Lords who have contributed to this debate will make a robust submission to the Law Commission.

As we have heard, currently Mr Michael Nesbitt MLA has said that he is to introduce a Private Member’s Bill. To date he has launched a consultation on the issue but as yet no detailed analysis of the responses he has received has been published. I understand that he is willing to pass these responses on to the Northern Ireland Law Commission. The law commission is a fully independent body and is not subject to the direction or control of the Assembly or Government. The Northern Ireland Finance Minister has made it abundantly clear that, as with any other law commission report, all recommendations will have to be thoroughly assessed with a view to making final policy recommendations.

It is only right and proper that the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly be allowed time to receive this report and I trust that they will act in a responsible manner after receiving its findings.

[Lord Carswell (CB)]

My Lords, the Defamation Act 2013 was wholly admirable legislation which righted and rebalanced the law of libel and slander in a thoroughly excellent way. It needed to be done and had been required for some time and I applaud the efforts of those who supported its enactment and who pioneered the hard work required to get it into legislation.

I cannot understand, and I can think of no sensible or acceptable reason, why the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly have failed to adopt the Act and put it into effect. However, I have listened with great interest to what has been said today by the eloquent speakers who have supported the amendment and I have read what was said in Committee, when I was not able to be present, and I find myself in complete agreement with practically everything that has been said today about the desirability of Northern Ireland introducing the provisions of the Defamation Act.

I appreciate the kind sympathy that the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, has extended to the Northern Ireland judiciary, of which I was privileged to be part, although not in the litigation to which he referred in such affecting terms. I think it was after I had been translated to become a member of the Appellate Committee of your Lordships’ House and therefore I cannot speak about the rights or wrongs of that case or of any other particular litigation.

Notwithstanding all that I have said, I have concerns and reservations and I owe it to the House and to those noble Lords supporting the amendment to say why. This is a reserved matter, as the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, has reminded the House, and it is therefore devolved unless taken back by the sovereign Parliament. I accept—there is no doubt about it—that, in principle, this Parliament, as a sovereign Parliament, is entitled to override any part of the legislation and to enact this if it sees fit, if it thinks that it is a proper case to do so.

My concern is whether it is right, sensible or wise to intervene in this way with a reserved matter, however important or desirable it is that the amendment should be put into effect. Where are the limits to lie for the House taking such a step? Is it not dangerous precedence for us to do that, even with something as important and fundamental as this? I accept all that has been said about the importance of free speech and the subject matter of the amendment, but is it wise? Would it create danger; would it start a process? If we do this in relation to this Bill, where will it finish if other people try to press Members of either House to introduce similar legislation amending Northern Ireland law in reserved matters on less fundamental subjects?

I do not find it easy to answer such questions. I am concerned that, if we go down that road, it is difficult to see where it will take us. I would very much like to see the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly adopting this without delay. It is time it was done briskly and expeditiously, but whether we should do it is another matter. It is with very real regret that I find it difficult to support the amendment, however important and desirable the result would be.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, this is an issue that the noble Lords, Lord Trimble and Lord Empey, have returned to on several occasions in the past, and I am sure that they will keep doing so in the future. However, as I pointed out in Committee, no other ministerial appointments, with the exception at present of the Justice Ministry, require cross-community support. It seems inappropriate that this requirement should be applied to the appointment of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister.

In Northern Ireland we are currently experiencing the longest period of stable government in a generation. What is detailed in the amendment simply moves us backwards and returns us to the position that existed in Northern Ireland pre-St Andrews. When we look back at Northern Ireland under the devolved institutions prior to the St Andrews talks and compare it with the stable Province we now have as a result of an extended period of devolved government since 2007, we see a remarkably different country.

As noble Lords will be aware, and as I mentioned in Committee, there is a legal requirement placed upon the Northern Ireland Assembly to provide a report on how the Assembly structures can be improved. My party, the Democratic Unionist Party, would be reluctant to pre-empt the work ongoing in the Assembly to review its functions and those of all the political institutions by supporting amendments such as this. It is my firm belief that it is inappropriate to simply unpick some parts of the relevant legislation. This amendment would simply divert attention from the important issues and challenges that Northern Ireland and its politicians face every single day. If changes are to be made we must look at the totality of the system of devolved government.

[Lord Alderdice]

I am encouraged by some of the things the noble Lord has said. I would be encouraged even more if he was able to give an undertaking that his party will also adhere to its commitment to this way of forming the First Minister and Deputy First Minister portfolios whatever the outcome of the Assembly elections in 2016. It would be a real reassurance not only to this House but to others if he was able to give an undertaking that his and his party’s commitment to this way of working is not only for when they have the First Minister but for whichever party has the First Minister.

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

I am not in a position to speak for the Executive or for my party in the Assembly. However, I am sure that they would wish to progress in a way that they believe will serve the people of Northern Ireland best.

I oppose the amendment and I hope that we will be able to proceed with the elections in Northern Ireland. Unlike the Ulster Unionists, I am not pessimistic about the outcome; I am very optimistic.

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I support the amendment. It is not the least of the distinctions of the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, that he is a former First Minister of Northern Ireland. He is not the only former First Minister of Northern Ireland in this House, but he is the only one who can say that he was supported by a majority of both communities in the process of election. We have lost something in the structures of the Assembly and the way it operates simply by the absence of that process and that type of affirmation for the First Ministership.

However, I do not want to dwell on the past. A number of points have been raised today about the future and possible destabilising trends—some of which might or might not eventuate—and it is important that we do not sleepwalk into this possible crisis with the Executive and the institutions. The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, asked a profound question, and one way of considering the implications of the question is that some of the parties, at least, to the current arrangements may no longer have precisely the same investment in those arrangements that they once had. If possible, there should be a dialogue or discussion in the Assembly with a view always to maintaining the stability of Northern Ireland, because there is a possibility, for the reasons mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Kilclooney and Lord Trimble, that we are sleepwalking into a crisis with these institutions. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, is right: these institutions have delivered a form of stability for some years now, but that does not mean that they will continue to do so. I would like reassurance that the Government are keeping the matter under review and are not sleepwalking.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I am sure that we all desire to see the Assembly at Stormont working better. This means reforming our political institutions and how government works. I believe that many clauses in this Bill will go a long way towards achieving progress on normalising politics in Northern Ireland.

Following four decades of terrorism and division, politics in Northern Ireland is changing and it is our duty to deal with the legacy of that period and seek to build a more united community. My party leader the First Minister of Northern Ireland has made it abundantly clear time and again that we are prepared to facilitate any party which wishes to opt for an opposition role within the current structures at Stormont. To date no party has taken up this offer. The DUP has always been willing to support additional resources and speaking time for a genuine Opposition as a first step towards the normalisation of our democratic structures.

In the long term, the best means of governing Northern Ireland would involve a voluntary coalition Executive and weighted majority voting in the Assembly, resulting in an end to community designation. This would be consistent with normal democratic institutions while respecting the particular circumstances of Northern Ireland. While a voluntary coalition could improve the performance of devolution in Northern Ireland, it would be a mistake to assume it is a panacea. However, that system could provide for both an Executive and an official loyal Opposition outside government instead of a disloyal Opposition within government. This should be the long-term goal of all the parties of Northern Ireland. However, we must be realistic about the ability to achieve it in the short term.

As the party which has constantly sought to improve the Assembly structures in Northern Ireland, we are in favour of an Opposition. In truth, this process could and probably should take place at the Northern Ireland Assembly. Therefore, I should be most grateful if the Minister could clarify whether at present the Stormont Executive and Assembly have the full power to approve an Opposition with speaking rights. I am of the firm belief that in a democracy there needs to be an Opposition, and I am firmly behind the principle of the amendment. However, I am not convinced as yet that this amendment is the best way to achieve that aim.

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Empey, makes, and has made in discussions with us, a reasonable case for this principle. Like the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, we can see where the pressure for this is coming from. Words such as “unique” have been used several times to describe the situation in Northern Ireland, and that is still the abiding mantra that we need to take into account. However, devolution is devolution, and this is a matter for MLAs to consult and decide upon. Should any newer reforms be proposed which require necessary legislation to be brought before this House, we should fully consider them.

The issue of an Opposition is not mentioned within the Northern Ireland Act 1998. It is therefore a devolved matter that can and should be dealt with at Stormont. Despite the Irish News, and despite positive statements that have been made, there is no detectable overall consensus among MLAs on a move towards a formal opposition model such as exists here at Westminster. The point has been made that the Assembly is the only legislature not to have these powers, but there are people here who know better than me and who have more experience of the situation in which the 1998 agreement came about. It divided a society. As was so eloquently put by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, the problem of a permanent Opposition was that it never had a chance of getting power and felt it had no say. The Belfast agreement was designed to deal with exactly that situation.

In June 2013, the Assembly and Executive Review Committee concluded that it was possible to grant informal recognition to non-executive parties in the Assembly on a proportional basis. As has been mentioned, this could be achieved through additional speaking rights, recognition of non-executive status in the order of speaking and the allocation of time for non-executive party business. All this lies within the purview of the Assembly; it requires no legislation in Westminster. There has been a widespread desire expressed to see a situation such as this come about. Surely the true test will be when the Assembly brings forward a unanimous recommendation along these lines and takes action within the powers that it already has. The structure of the committees within the Assembly already provides a vehicle for regular accountability. They are organised so that Ministers face a committee within their jurisdiction which is headed by a representative of another party.

The 1998 agreement established an Executive in Northern Ireland which would be inclusive. In the same way, the responsibility for accountability must be exercised in an inclusive manner. The committees of the Assembly already allow the Executive to be held to account, commensurate with the fundamental principle of inclusivity. Furthermore, there is a broad consensus about giving non-executive parties informal recognition. This could be given by the Assembly itself. It would have much more power behind it if it came about in that way. There does not appear to be a full consensus among MLAs about reforming the structure to create an Official Opposition. It is essential that all the structures within the Assembly operate in an inclusive manner and are supported by broad cross-party consensus. The question is: do these conditions exist or not? It is the responsibility of MLAs to consult and agree upon newer structural reforms for an Opposition. This is an ongoing process. If, once consensus is reached, it is necessary for legislation to be brought before the House, we shall fully consider it.

We are very responsive to and aware of the sentiments that have been expressed, but the Assembly is on a journey. Unfortunately, we do not yet seem to have reached the stage where it can take the next step, but we believe that it is getting there and the move must come from there, although at present the necessary conditions do not seem to exist. For this reason, although we understand the amendment of the noble Lord, we cannot support it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, in Northern Ireland we currently have the longest period of stable government in a generation. What is detailed in the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, simply takes us backwards and returns us to a position that was in the Northern Ireland Act pre-St Andrews. There is a legal requirement placed on the Assembly to provide a report on how the Assembly can be improved. My party would be reluctant to pre-empt the work going on in the Assembly to review their workings and all the political institutions by supporting an amendment such as this.

None of the other ministerial appointments, with the exception at present of the Justice Ministry, require cross-community support so it seems rather odd that we would isolate the First Minister and Deputy First Minister’s positions. Therefore, we oppose any changes in relation to this. Of course, one favours normalisation but not this bit-by-bit approach. It is important to take a comprehensive approach. If changes are to be made, one must look at the totality of the system so that the people are reassured that doing certain things is offset by other things. Therefore, I cannot support the amendment.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, this is an issue that the noble Lord, Lord Empey, has returned to in the past and I am sure he will do so again. I do not feel we can support it here today. Clearly, as I recall, the time leading up to the St Andrews agreement was tense in Northern Ireland. I seem to recall various deadlines in reaching agreements so that the Assembly could be re-established after what was then four and a half years of suspension—a situation that nobody wanted to be in at the time. The agreements made there were not just agreements made there and then. There were discussions for several weeks after, before the legislation came to your Lordships’ House. My noble friend Lord Rooker took the legislation through your Lordships’ House at that time. Legislation giving effect to the St Andrews agreement and ongoing discussions was passed by both Houses.

The noble Lord, Lord Empey, whom I have known for many years—indeed I followed him into his department, DETI, in Northern Ireland—has never been a great fan of the St Andrews agreement. He has had criticisms of it for some time. However, there is no doubt that that agreement led to the re-establishment of the Assembly and the process we have now. I really feel that it is not appropriate to unpick just some parts. The noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, made an important point about the ongoing review by the Assembly. However, it would be unfortunate in this legislation to unpick one part of the St Andrews agreement, even though I understand the concerns raised, and it is not something that we will support today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Alderdice]

My Lords, I have spoken on this issue before on a number of occasions. I did so right from the beginning, when the legislation first came forward, when it became apparent to me that there needed to be discussion not just with parties of Northern Ireland but with the Government of the Republic of Ireland, because we have a land border with them.

One of my concerns at home in the last little while has been that a new generation of people, including politicians, have come forward who do not know what had to be done in the past to reach the agreements. They do not understand the language and the choreography that was necessary. That is not just a matter for Northern Ireland. It is apparent to me that on this side of the water there are people in senior positions in government who do not realise what had to be done to reach accommodations in the past. For example, it was unthinkable, even in those days, that a Government—in which the noble Lord, Lord Hurd, who is no longer in his place here, served—would have embarked on a key issue of security policy that involved the border area without any discussion with the Government of the Republic of Ireland, and that was long before many of the agreements with which the subsequent political progress was made. The Labour Administration, particularly under Tony Blair, would never have engaged in some kind of agreement on security issues without discussing it with the Government of the Republic of Ireland. The Taoiseach and the Prime Minister had a very close relationship.

When I raised the question of whether there had been serious discussions between the Home Office and the department of justice in the Republic of Ireland—and I am talking about the Bill team stage, not after the legislation had been passed—I was astonished, because I was looked at as if it was an extraordinary question. Yet the responsibilities of the NCA will include border regions, and there is only one land frontier in the United Kingdom. I have raised that again and again, and I must say that from time to time Secretaries of State and Ministers—in particular I mention in dispatches David Ford, the Justice Minister—have worked extremely hard to try to ensure that the Irish Government were brought in to assist us in getting the agreement of some of the parties in Northern Ireland that find it most difficult to agree on those kinds of things. Therefore there have been efforts from within elements of the British Government here and from within the Northern Ireland Executive, but it is also clear that at some very senior levels there is no appreciation that you cannot simply take these things for granted within that part of the United Kingdom.

I support the noble Lord, Lord Empey, in raising this question, not because I think it should be dealt with in this particular piece of legislation, but—as he said earlier on, and it is true—because it is not every day that a piece of legislation relating to Northern Ireland comes forward without being governed by emergency provisions of some description and rushed through the two Houses. In fact, this is probably the first time in 16 years that we have had a piece of Northern Ireland legislation that has not come through under emergency provisions of some description. Therefore, it gives us an opportunity to raise these kinds of matters.

This is a serious issue: it is not going to go away; it has the potential to become more serious; and, unless the British Government relate with the Irish Government in trying to assist parties in Northern Ireland to achieve an outcome, I do not think it is going to be successful. I warned about this at the time and it did not seem to register, so it is no surprise that we are in the difficulty that we are in. People did not take the advice at the time; they did not think it was necessary. I hope they have learned and begin to take action. As I said, this does not fall in the lap of either the current or the previous Secretary of State for Northern Ireland because they actually realised the problem, but it was not in their bailiwick at the time. It was in that of another government department. They worked very hard, as did the Justice Minister, David Ford, but I hope the warning that the noble Lord, Lord Empey, has cited will be heard again and reverberate until we get a proper outcome for this.

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, I am pleased to support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, in relation to the National Crime Agency. Failure to extend the full operation of the National Crime Agency to Northern Ireland seriously jeopardises security in the province. Failure to extend the work of the agency to cover every part of the United Kingdom is the equivalent of putting up an “open for business” sign over the Province.

In the Police Service of Northern Ireland, we have one of the most accountable police forces in the world, with constant checks and balances, scrutiny and high-level review. With the introduction of the National Crime Agency, this high level of scrutiny would continue. The head of the National Crime Agency, under statute, would appear in front of the Northern Ireland Policing Board once every year. Significantly, the NCA could not operate in devolved matters at all without the instruction of the chief constable. Despite these control mechanisms, some politicians in Northern Ireland have constantly blocked attempts to allow the full operation of the NCA. That leaves those involved in all levels of organised crime in a much better position than they were previously. A fully operational National Crime Agency would be a vital tool in tackling serious and organised crime such as human trafficking and the illicit drugs trade and in preventing terrorist attacks. At a time when my noble friend Lord Morrow is working tirelessly to stamp out human trafficking in Northern Ireland, it is vital that an operational agency is in place that can support this work. Therefore, I support this amendment.

[Lord Lexden]

My Lords, a most important note of warning has been sounded by my noble friends Lord Empey and Lord Alderdice. There can surely be no more important issue of concern to the whole United Kingdom than the national security of us all. It is intensely worrying that, in one part of our country, the national interest is not being secured fully and effectively. That is the simple point at issue. The principle is the same as applies to the amendment in my name to which we are coming shortly. We have in this House the right to look to all those involved in the Government and the law-making processes in Northern Ireland to do everything possible. In no area is it more important than this: to secure the total interests of the United Kingdom as a whole.

District Electoral Areas (Northern Ireland) Order 2014

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, as I have said in this Committee before, this represents the end of a 13 to 14-year process, so nobody has broken into a sweat with the effort of getting here. It has taken a monumental length of time to get to this point.

Technically, the Minister is correct that this is needed in order to provide for the elections to take place in May. She is also right to say that commissioners were appointed and held inquiries. I do not necessarily agree with every one of the proposals, particularly, for example, the one in respect of Enniskillen in Fermanagh. Nevertheless, the Secretary of State has accepted the recommendations and they are here before us. However, they show, for those familiar with the geography, that a fundamental injustice has been committed with the designation of the boundaries for some of the councils. A glance at the map and a glance at the proposals for Belfast show that it has been gerrymandered in the most obvious and blatant way. Areas such as Dundonald and Ballybeen have been excluded from the City of Belfast, along with Rathcoole, and included, in the case of Dundonald and Ballybeen, with Lisburn and Castlereagh, with which they have little or no connection.

However, that is not the matter before us. It is merely a point that I have made before and will make again. I suspect that more can be said when we come to the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in Committee next week, although we do not know which day each bit will be debated. Nevertheless, I wanted to put on record my dissatisfaction with the fundamentals behind these proposals before us.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I welcome the order and I, too, thank the District Electoral Areas Commissioner, Mr Richard Mackenzie, and his team for all their hard work in preparing it. Redrawing boundaries is always a difficult task, and it is not always possible for political parties to obtain all they desire, but considerable work has gone into this and the areas are now well balanced. Going into the statistics, there are about 2,500 people per area, with a mean variation of plus or minus 5%. Considerable progress has been made. I hope that the discussions next week on the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill will allow the Northern Ireland Executive to review the role of the Local Government Boundaries Commissioner and, I hope, improve it in the future. In general, I welcome this order.

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, the Official Opposition, too, welcome the report and the order, and I endorse the Minister’s commendation of Mr Mackenzie and his team. It can be very tricky drawing boundaries anywhere, but in Northern Ireland they have been hotly disputed. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, has expressed dissatisfaction. I would be more worried if nobody had expressed dissatisfaction, so that is actually quite a commendation. My honourable friend Stephen Pound in the other place, who is far more eloquent and far more loquacious than me, has asked a couple of questions, which I would like to ask the Minister to get them on record here.

First, given that the Sandyknowles roundabout has traditionally been a key landmark in identifying the border of the DEA, Mr Pound asked for the Minister’s assessment of the commissioner’s decision to change the name of Sandyknowles to Glengormley Urban. Secondly, the commissioner and his team should be commended for their work in liaising closely with community groups in Derry/Londonderry, particularly given the historic sensitivity that surrounds polling districts in the city. However, does the Minister agree that, on this occasion, the commissioner should perhaps have listened more to the advice of local community groups and accepted the recommendation to change Rosemount DEA to Edenballymore? Those are a couple of technical questions. If the Minister has the answers, fine, but if not she can write to me so we can get them on the record.

As I say, this is a welcome step. It has been a long time coming, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said, but it is another step on the road to making sure that Northern Ireland is like every other place in the United Kingdom. Political disputes may go back and forward but there is general acceptance of this measure, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, was good enough to say. With that, I repeat that we support the order.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I welcome this Bill, which provides the opportunity to give the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Executive and Northern Ireland politicians the tools that they need to continue to move forward as agreement allows. This will allow Northern Ireland to maintain the process of maturing and evolving politically as trust and confidence is built. The greatest challenge that we in Northern Ireland face daily is rebuilding our society after many years of division.

After the longest period of stable government in a generation, politics is changing. It is right that the regulation in relation to political donations should be adjusted to reflect that change. My party, the Democratic Unionist Party, supports Clauses 1 and 2, which provide for greater transparency concerning donations made after 1 January with the important proviso that a final decision will be made only when the security situation in Northern Ireland allows it. Those who donated to political parties under the current procedure did so with a full expectation to full and perpetual anonymity. We support the commitment not to retrospectively publish the names of donors who have given in the past.

Northern Ireland of course is a special case and I am sure that noble Lords will appreciate that, in this instance, there is a requirement for it to be afforded special status which does not exist elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

Many individuals and businesses are to be commended for stepping forward during the bad old days of the darkest of times in the history of Northern Ireland. Despite great personal risk to themselves and their businesses, these brave persons donated to political parties, standing up for democracy. As we move forward to a more normalised society and as we attempt to put our troubled past behind us, it is correct that we move towards the system of donations employed throughout the rest of the United Kingdom. We support the normalisation process for political donations as is outlined in the Bill.

With regard to setting a timetable for the removal of anonymity, sole responsibility for this process lies with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Under the Bill as currently drafted, in assessing the security risk and potential future risks to commercial companies, the Secretary of State is obliged to consult only with the Northern Ireland Electoral Commission. It is certainly right for it to be consulted regarding the mechanics of changes, but as regards the security situation, surely the Secretary of State should also consult with those who have relevant experience and specialised knowledge of the subject. We also believe that provision should be made for consultation with political parties as political parties will have to live with the consequences of reduced funding if the Secretary of State gets the timing wrong.

One issue of concern is that the Bill will not close the sizeable loophole that at present permits political parties based outside the United Kingdom to be bankrolled by donations made abroad. Unfortunately, the Government have not so far seen fit to close that particular loophole, which should not be made available to any political party. Under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, political parties registered in Great Britain are permitted to accept donations only from UK residents and bodies. That is a solid and sound principle. The same Act extends to parties in Northern Ireland. However, parties registered in Northern Ireland may accept donations from the Republic of Ireland. Unfortunately, in this particular instance, an exception has been made in relation to Northern Ireland. Certain political parties have raised substantial amounts of money outside the jurisdiction, and that money is used to influence the political and electoral process within the United Kingdom. That is wrong and it is an area that should be looked at.

In relation to Clause 3, dual mandates served a useful purpose in Northern Ireland during the period of the Troubles. It was important to have political leaders present in both the Northern Ireland Assembly and another place when negotiations and decisions around Northern Ireland's future were being made. Given that the Troubles as we knew them are now over, we hope, the constitutional debate has been won and we now have the longest and most stable period of devolved government in a generation, it is clear that dual mandates are something that have naturally come to an end. My party, the Democratic Unionist Party, has been actively phasing out dual mandates for a number of years and by 2015 all our dual mandates will have ended. This legislation change simply underscores and re-emphasises what has been happening already on a voluntary basis.

While dual mandates do indeed need to be addressed, the anomaly of non-representation must also be brought to an end. It is time for those persons from Northern Ireland elected to the other House to make a decision. If they want their expenses and office costs, they need to demonstrate that they are doing the work. That means taking their seat. They are free not to take their seat if they so wish. However, the situation that exists where people do not take their seat but are allowed to claim expenses must end. The issue of non-representation while still claiming expenses is an affront to democracy.

Regarding Clause 6, there is broad consensus within Northern Ireland that there should be a considerable reduction in the size of the Assembly. As Northern Ireland moves towards a more normalised society, this should be reflected in a more proportionate legislature. As the party that has most consistently sought to improve Assembly structures, we believe that it is right and proper that the Government should change the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to allow determination of the size of the Assembly to be a reserved matter. That will allow the Assembly to legislate for themselves following consultation and agreement with the Secretary of State.

However, an important point that could arise from the reduction in numbers in the Assembly is that, as it stands currently, a petition of concern requires 30 signatures. If the Assembly were to be reduced to 90 MLAs or fewer, as would be my preference, it would clearly be right, proper and sensible to reduce the number required to sign a petition of concern. This debate should take place between the parties of Northern Ireland at the same time as a discussion on the reduction of MLAs. Thus, I believe that the Bill should be amended to make petitions of concern a reserved matter upon which the Assembly may legislate following agreement.

I also welcome Clause 7, which will bring Northern Ireland into line with the rest of the United Kingdom. Holding elections for the Assembly and the other House on the same day leads only to confusion and does not allow for the issues pertaining to each body to be properly debated and considered. This change has been legislated for already in Scotland and Wales and is welcome for Northern Ireland as well. There is unanimity of support for the changes proposed in respect of the appointment of the Justice Minister. Those changes would permit that appointment to become normalised within the d’Hondt system.

As regards changes to the reform of electoral registration and voting, I welcome any proposals that will improve and simplify the current process. It is very important to compile an accurate and complete electoral register and I am glad to see that there has been a good uptake of people registering for voting, although some areas still need more work.

I welcome this Bill: it addresses some incredibly important matters. As I have mentioned, I wish that it had contained further provisions concerning political party donations and, in particular, the loophole regarding donations from outside the United Kingdom; but I have no doubt that we will turn to that issue some other time. It is to be welcomed that elections for the Northern Ireland Assembly have now been brought into line with those for Scotland and Wales. I welcome the new arrangement in place for the Minister of Justice and the Assembly’s power to reduce the number of MLAs, which we certainly want to see. It is clear that there are far too many Assembly Members in Northern Ireland and they need to be reduced.

I recognise that there are many other issues that need to be debated and for which provision needs to be made. I hope that after the talks with Dr Richard Haass and further consideration in the Assembly and Executive Review Committee, we will be in a position to come forward with some consensus on these issues and debate them further. I believe that the Bill will help to keep politics moving forward in Northern Ireland and improve the working of the devolved Administration. Finally, in reply to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, the DUP is fully in support of parity.

European Parliamentary Elections (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2013

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for a very clear and full exposition of these necessary changes. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Empey, is a complete realist and knows that those changes must go ahead to fit in with the various consequential amendments that are required.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Empey, I noticed that there will be two ballot boxes, and I am aware of what happens in those circumstances and so on. Being an experienced politician, I can see the capacity for confusion and mistakes. Therefore, will special emphasis be placed on the counting officer being required to make sure that all the political election agents concerned have a right and a duty to supervise that procedure so that there will not be instances of it going ahead in the absence of one or more political agents?

I also noted the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, concerning coterminosity. I understand his point of view, because in Scotland we also hoped that we would have coterminosity in terms of organisation after the founding of the Scottish Parliament. However, we do not have the coterminosity that many of us would like to have seen, and I understand his point of view. It is a cliché, but we are where we are. We need these SIs to go ahead. I believe that there were commitments to coterminosity at the time. I remember that quite clearly because local boundaries in Northern Ireland, as everywhere else in the United Kingdom, are quite important. Nevertheless, the Opposition views these SIs as necessary. We are grateful for the clear exposition. If the Minister could comment on the two ballot box situation, I would be very grateful.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I welcome these SIs, which are designed to help the elections proceed smoothly. With regard to the Local Elections (Northern Ireland) Order, which replaces the existing 26 councils with 11 larger local council areas, the elections are to be held on 26 May 2014. I welcome that. It is important that local elections go ahead as, to date, there have been many co-options on to local councils in order to address the so-called problem with double-jobbing. Many councils have a high proportion of councillors who have never received a mandate from the electorate. From 2015, when I understand co-option will stop, councils will be truly democratic.

In order for political parties to have sufficient time to prepare for these elections, it is vital that they know in good time what wards are grouped into which electoral areas. Will the Minister indicate how soon an order will be laid before Parliament so that the chief electoral officer will be able to draw up plans for locating polling stations? I regret that the normal 12-week consultation period in the draft scheme has been withdrawn, but I trust that that will not lead to problems with the siting of polling stations.

I am pleased to hear that the papers for the local election and the European election will be of different colours. That is what happened last time when we had the Assembly elections and the local council elections, but there was considerable confusion because even though the papers were colour-coded, the colours were insipid, which led to problems. This time, with the papers having a title showing which election they are for, that problem will be solved.

There is a continuing decline in turnout at elections in Northern Ireland. I think that only 55% of the electorate took part in the previous election—down from 62.9%—but I trust that these regulations will encourage voters to turn out.

[Baroness Blood (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said what I was thinking when I was listening to the Minister. This is a dog’s dinner. Working on the ground and trying to get young people interested in voting in Northern Ireland—it has mostly been older people who have voted—the different colours of ballot papers are hard to explain. I am most anxious that we are given time to explain and that this is not just put into the media or the paper and that is it. We will have to explain on the ground to young people, in particular, why this election is taking place and why we are working to the 2015 election and all that. Many people will get confused and think that they are voting for two lots of councillors. Knowing Northern Ireland as we do, that is a very distinct possibility.

I take up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, about who will police when the stations close. That can be a very dangerous situation in Northern Ireland. Has any thought been given to that?

Northern Ireland

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson]

The noble Lord, coming from the same part of the world as I do, is well aware of the importance of history to us all. It is of course extremely sad when history becomes so embroiled in violence. I say to him that it is important that as the years go by the people of Northern Ireland are able to embrace the future, and to let go of the past while not ignoring or neglecting it. They should be able to celebrate it in a positive way. I point to the importance of the Derry/Londonderry City of Culture in that transition process, because it does not shy away from the traditions and problems of the past. It embraces them and makes them part of a cultural experience.

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

I join the Minister in condemning unreservedly the recent street violence in Belfast, and in paying tribute to the bravery and strength of the police men and women from all parts of the United Kingdom who formed the front line in protecting the rule of law. However, does the Minister agree with me that the remit of the proposed all-party talks, under the chairmanship of Richard Haass, should include consideration of a change in the law to make the default position an unrestricted right to parade peacefully anywhere in Northern Ireland, unfettered by the arbitrary edicts of an unelected quango? Surely this is the only acceptable legal model for the mature and tolerant society which we are all trying to create in Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Randerson]

I join the noble Lord in the hope that in future years it will be possible to hold parades that are entirely peaceful. Unfortunately, the events of this year have made his hopes even further off than they were before.