Online Safety Bill

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 1st February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I generally welcome the Bill and I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, for the great work she has done. In the Bill, I particularly welcome the movement towards greater protection for children than we have had hitherto. I share the concern of the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, that there may be difficulties, including the age-verification system, which was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kamall. I am in favour of age verification and I would like to see it implemented quickly. I would also like the Minister to assure us that, having waited so long, if we find that there are loopholes in it, we can find some mechanism to fill those loopholes fairly quickly—perhaps a commitment to using secondary legislation rather than having to wait for so long, as we have done in the past.

My second concern relates to Clause 12, which the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford raised and which the nobles Baronesses, Lady Hollins and Lady Finlay, also spoke to, on the protection of adults from risk and harm. I do not think enough attention has been paid to what is happening with pornography and with mental health. Here I declare an interest as the founder and vice-chair of an All-party Group for the Twelve Steps Recovery Programme from Addiction. Addiction is not just about alcohol. AA started the 12-step programme but it has been extended over the years to a whole range of other addictions—not least drugs, gambling and overeating, and in particular it is growing quite extensively in the sexual field. We have a range of 12-step programmes operating, including for SLA—sex and love addiction—and sexual addiction. As to the latter, an ever-increasing number of people are in grave trouble due to the effects of pornography, not just solely on themselves but consequently the rest of their family in a whole range of different ways.

It is quite interesting that of the number of people watching pornography—mainly men—between midnight and 4 am is the time when most porn sites are being visited. These are affecting people mentally, affecting their work and affecting their relationships. The Bill as it stands does not address that issue sufficiently well. They had a go at it in the Commons and were persuaded that the approach was incorrect. Pornography is growing. We must protect the freedom of speech and what we circulate, but equally we must protect standards. In turn, we must make sure that we are not creating in certain areas a decadence that we have not had before that is damaging to society.

I hope that we might look again at Clause 12 and try to find a way for some accommodation to be found between the Government’s viewpoint and the views being expressed by people such as the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. It is important that we do so; if not, we will have to start campaigning privately. If we cannot get it through law, we will have to bring together those concerned about pornography and look for ways to bring to the attention of people that it must be drawn to a halt or at least diminished, given the extent and pace at which it is growing at present. I think it can be done. We have a dry January; why should we not, in the month of December, encourage people not to engage in pornography? At least it would capture attention. If we want to have a better society, we should be diminishing this practice rather than growing it.

Football Governance

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I welcome much of the report, but does the Minister recall that the Prime Minister, when he was Mayor of London, was very concerned about domestic abuse that arose after football matches where drinking had taken place? Recommendations 42 and 43 of the report are that there should be experiments in reintroducing alcohol into these leagues, which had been banned since 1988. Can he tell me why the Government have changed their view?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I advise the noble Lord to await the Government’s response to the fan-led review, in which we will deal with all its recommendations.

Public Health: Media Advertising

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Monday 28th February 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to assess (1) the impact on public health of advertising in the media, and (2) whether the tax system regarding such advertisements could be restructured to improve both physical and mental health outcomes.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay) (Con)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government do not have plans for a comprehensive assessment of the impact of advertising on public health but are committed to assessing its impact in a proportionate way and in response to emerging evidence. For example, we will use a post-implementation review to assess the impact of forthcoming restrictions to the advertising of less healthy food and drink products on television and online. There are no current plans to review the tax treatment of advertising but the Government keep all taxes under review.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I am disappointed that the Government are not extending the review of the effects of advertising on health over a wider front; I hope that might be reconsidered. It is important that we take from the Chancellor’s move to a variable taxation on alcohol—in which the highest taxes are placed on those drinks with the highest element of alcohol and incentives are offered for lower taxes on those with lower alcohol—that advertising will be looked at in a similar way, particularly where advertising damages people, such as in the case of gambling and so on. Why do such advertisers not pay higher rates of tax than the present standard rate, which applies to all advertising? This is a way in which revenue could be increased and we could also seek to get behavioural change, which would be positive for the country.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

On gambling specifically, as the noble Lord will know, we are reviewing the Gambling Act and looking specifically at advertising issues as part of that. More broadly, we recognise that advertising can have an impact on public health, which is why we continue to keep that impact on all aspects of public health under review and will assess any emerging evidence in a proportionate and measured way. That is why, for instance, we are responding to evidence that children’s exposure to less healthy food-and-drink product advertising can affect what and when they eat. DCMS will of course continue to work with other departments, and the regulators as necessary, to keep the impacts of advertising on public health under review.

Children: Online Protection

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 10th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. We have been speaking to the BBFC and others. The questions which we are addressing through the online safety Bill are not entirely new. The questions of access and how we can protect children, in particular, are ones that we have addressed in relation to other media. We are learning from those who have experience as we look to future regulation.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not bring any praise. Age assurance can be driven through easily by a coach and horses. The noble Baroness asked what further work is being done on facial recognition and the other factors which are now developing with technology. When we reflect on the great difficulties we have with so many areas on security, was it not a disaster, in 2011, when the then newly elected coalition Government threw away the Labour Government’s work on identification of individuals, when this is needed in so many areas? What are the Government doing to look back, reflect on that, change direction and produce proper self-identification for everyone, not just children?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am not sure that a national identity card scheme would be the right approach in this area. In the decade since, technology has moved on in a number of ways to enable both age verification and age assurance in a lighter touch way that affords the protections we need for children online while respecting the privacy of legitimate adult users.

Online Sexual Harassment of Children

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Monday 24th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My noble friend is right. As technology evolves, children are susceptible to a broader range of harmful content on a wider range of services. Of course, these services can bring great benefits to those who use them legitimately; that is why the approach set out in the online safety Bill will go much further than, for instance, the Digital Economy Act. We are grateful to the Joint Committee and everyone who has helped us to improve it so far.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, the Sunday Times yesterday alleged that there is a major hole in the Bill and that there is no provision for protecting children from grooming in the new technology of the metaverse. What does the Minister think about that and does he believe that there is a case for urgent action to be taken?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I read the very disturbing report in the Sunday Times to which the noble Lord referred. That is why the online safety Bill takes the approach of not being specific on certain technologies and making sure that our legislation can be future-proofed so that, as the internet continues to develop and new technologies are invented, the legislative protections for users keep pace with that. The metaverse, to which he referred, is a key example.

National Lottery

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Wednesday 14th July 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to review the objectives of the National Lottery.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, since its launch in 1994, the National Lottery has been an unprecedented success, raising over £43 billion for community, arts, heritage and sports projects across the UK. The primary objective of the National Lottery is to raise money for good causes and we have no plans to change that.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, but I hope that she may be prepared to reflect. The National Lottery has not been quite so successful in recent years; life has changed and we should have new objectives. The big change has been the problem with the nation’s health. We have the worst number in Europe of deaths from Covid. I believe that the Government should review the objectives of the National Lottery and see whether a greater focus on health for the nation should be considered. One of the lottery’s great benefits is that it reaches the hard-to-reach groups in society. As many play the National Lottery with scratch cards and so on, the Government should consider how that link might be used to incentivise and reward players for moves to better and healthier eating and drinking and exercise rather than simply focusing on money rewards, as it does at the moment. Let us put the real health of the nation at the heart of this objective rather than simply money.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord is of course right that the pandemic has highlighted the importance of the nation’s health. He will be aware that health is one of the objectives of the National Lottery Community Fund, but, more broadly, this Government have an ambitious target for reducing, in particular, obesity. The lottery must provide additionality in its funding, not replace core government funding.

Gambling Legislation

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I hope I can reassure the noble Lord when I say, genuinely, that this is being actively worked on at the moment.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) (V)]

My Lords, I want to raise the point that the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, introduced. We have the worrying situation of 55,000 10 to16 year-olds now gambling online. Action can be taken quickly on this; it could be taken in the context of the online harms Bill. Will the Minister say whether she is prepared to have something in that Bill that will bring this to an end and that the Government will place a duty of care on the gambling industry? If not, why not?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can only repeat what I have said already: we are going to conduct the review very thoroughly. We found your Lordships’ report most helpful. We also consulted last year on whether to raise the minimum age for playing the lottery to 18, and we will publish our response to that consultation in due course.

Online Harms Legislation

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 13th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

We are liaising on developments in the EU and globally but, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, we will not let that slow us down.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister also look at my Private Member’s Bill on children’s well-being and online harms?

[Baroness Barran]

I can make no promises as there is apparently a reshuffle this afternoon, but I will endeavour to look at it whatever the outcome.

Museums and Galleries: Financial Sustainability

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that many of our national museums are housed in wonderful heritage buildings, but those buildings require constant upkeep, which is obviously very expensive. To help address this, the Government awarded earlier this year £44 million of one-off funding over the next two years to support essential maintenance for our national museums.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

Does the Minister share my view that the experience of visiting galleries and museums has changed quite radically in recent years since we saw the introduction and extension of the iPad and iPhones? Often when we try to see a picture we are surrounded by people taking selfies in front of it. It has changed completely from what it used to be. There is a great opportunity for museums and galleries to raise money from this. It is very simple indeed: nobody takes a camera in unless they pay a fee to do so. Could she try to run an experiment with a museum or a gallery to see how that works and just how much money could be raised?

[Baroness Barran]

I had not thought about it in quite the same way as the noble Lord, although when I go to a museum with my children I spend quite a lot of time trying to stop them taking photographs of the pictures. I am not sure about selfies, but more seriously, I am happy to take his suggestion back to my colleague in the department.

Problem Gambling

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I shall not give a technical answer to that but there is technology using cookies and other data to direct advertising and gambling advertisements to certain people. If you can do that, you can also target it away from people, and that is what the companies have committed to do today. Banks and other financial institutions can use data and algorithms to work out when people are getting involved in problem gambling. We are investigating that with the banks and it is something that we would expect them to do. As I said to my noble friend Lord Deben, we are also looking at the use of credit cards in that respect.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

First, following on from that point, can the Minister say whether the Government have had discussions with the gambling industry about the use of algorithms? Secondly, he says that the Government are now looking to the industry to act responsibly and will be monitoring what it does. How long will that period of monitoring last? Thirdly, a Select Committee in this House has been appointed to look at this issue. Will any agreement that the Government reach with the gambling industry inhibit the implementation of recommendations from the Select Committee?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I do not know specifically whether we have directly talked about algorithms. However, I know that we have talked about the use of data, which of course is the food for algorithms. Essentially, whenever you use data and computers to make decisions, you use an algorithm. I assume that is the case but I have not been given the specifics on it. The noble Lord asked for how long the industry will be monitored. We have been clear that there will be monitoring. It happens the whole time. Gambling companies have to give an annual assurance to the Gambling Commission and that will continue on a permanent basis. We will certainly take the Select Committee’s deliberations and conclusions into account, and we may or may not act on them depending on what they are.