Recalled Offenders: Sentencing Limits

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

Monday 19th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is right that there is sometimes a big distinction between the offences that people commit. It is important that those committing serious further offences and those who are managed on a MAPPA 2 or 3 are treated differently from those with lower offences. I am clear that everybody who commits an offence needs to be dealt with by the law; but they also need to have an opportunity to rehabilitate themselves so that they do not create further victims in the future.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, as has been said, this stopgap measure really shines a spotlight on the whole issue of recalls, which have grown exponentially in recent years. Some 75% are for non-compliance, which is hugely detrimental to the big aim of transformed lives, which holds both victim and offender together. First, will the Minister assure us that his Majesty’s Government will look at recall in the light of the independent sentencing review, which is soon to be published? Secondly, there will be those in the process whose recall is seemingly for minor breaches, whereas in fact there may be a danger of control and fear instilled in victims of domestic abuse. We need to bring complexity into our thinking, rather than one size fits all. Will the Minister give reassurance to victims of domestic abuse that that is being taken seriously in this policy?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The right reverend Prelate can be assured that I will take the matter of victims of domestic abuse very seriously. I am sure she will be pleased to know that we will not have to wait too long for the Gauke review to be published. Obviously, I cannot comment on what is going to be in that, but I am confident that David Gauke will recommend changes to ensure that we never run out of space again. The number of recalls is 13,000 and growing. Only six years ago, the number was half that, so clearly there is a problem. We need to address that, and we will.

Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 19th May 2025 Grand Committee

There is real public interest in getting this right, and it is a financial interest as well as a societal one. First, custodial sentences are expensive: far more expensive than community sentences. Secondly, there is a great deal of evidence that community sentences are more effective than custodial sentences in cutting reoffending. So, if it is right—and I think it is—that good pre-sentence reports lead to more community sentences and to less custody, a central subject of the Gauke review, that is likely to lead to significant savings to the public purse and to a healthier society, with an overall reduction in crime.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, I will not repeat the arguments I made at Second Reading. However, as other noble Lords have said, I still do not believe that we need this Bill—and even less so, as the noble Lord, Lord Marks, said, given that the independent sentencing review will be published imminently. That should be the means for us to deal with the underlying principles raised today, and I do not know why this is not being paused and put on hold. I am also deeply concerned that the Bill may pass in a matter of days, while we go on waiting for decisive action flowing from the Lammy report, which stands at eight years and counting.

On the specific amendment in my name, Amendment 16, I will endeavour not to repeat all the important points that other noble Lords have made. I am simply seeking to minimise the harm to the unborn child and the wider family, and I hope that the sentencing review will give the opportunity to look at all this afresh.

I am grateful to organisations that have been advocating for PSRs for pregnant women, including Level Up and Birth Companions, and academics including Dr Shona Minson. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, and others, for supporting my amendment.

The Bill provides that sentencing guidelines about pre-sentence reports may not include provision framed by reference to an offender’s personal characteristics. It therefore removes any direction in any Sentencing Council guidelines for sentencers to obtain a PSR before sentencing a pregnant woman or a mother of a child. This means that an existing protection included in the current mitigating factor for pregnancy and the post-natal period, published in April last year, which directs sentencers to obtain a PSR before sentencing—and indeed adjourns sentencing until one is available—will now become unlawful.

In the absence of clear directions for courts to obtain a PSR for pregnant women and mothers who face a potential prison term, and whose children will be impacted by their incarceration, there is no guarantee that magistrates and judges will order PSRs for these women. The Government have put in jeopardy the now widely acknowledged need to urgently reconsider the incarceration of pregnant women and those who are primary carers of young children.

I do not want to rehearse the many reasons why incarcerating pregnant women and primary carers is dangerous, but I will give just a few key facts, which we have heard many times before. Pregnant women in prison are seven times more likely to suffer a stillbirth, twice as likely to give birth prematurely, twice as likely to give birth to a baby that needs specialist neonatal care and five times more likely to miss vital midwifery appointments due to staffing issues. Then, there are all those children deeply affected by the incarceration of their mothers and the removal of their right to family life when their mother is taken from them. Some 19 out of 20 children are forced to leave their homes when a mother goes to prison.

In 2019, the Joint Committee on Human Rights inquiry, The Right to Family Life: Children Whose Mothers Are in Prison, recommended that judges must not sentence mothers or primary carers without a pre-sentence report. It is critical that courts are directed to obtain a PSR before sentencing a pregnant woman or the mother of a dependent child.

Of all female defendants prosecuted at court, 14% were prosecuted for indictable offences. That means that the vast majority of women in court who are accused of low-level non-violent crimes are sentenced by magistrates: hard-working volunteers who nevertheless undergo less than four days of training. Women in these courts are often represented by underpaid, overworked criminal defence practitioners. Without formal guidance on PSRs, the fate of pregnant women and mothers is in the hands of people who are very dedicated but may sentence them to prison without recognising the damage this causes.

I began by saying that I did not wish to repeat arguments made at Second Reading. I must say, however, that in tabling this amendment, I hope it to be, essentially, a stop-gap measure on a misguided Bill which should not have been brought in the first place and leaves me deeply perturbed.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a member of the APPG for Gypsies, Travellers and Roma, and I apologise for not being present at Second Reading. I did, however, watch this at home on the Parliament channel.

I will speak to Amendment 11 but support the whole of this group of amendments. I am, however, in two minds about the Bill. When I listened to the noble Lord, Lord Timpson, during his opening address at Second Reading, I felt that he was right. Everyone should be treated equally; there should be no preferential treatment for some. However, I know from my past experience that equality of treatment does not come automatically to everyone. Sadly, the evidence supports this.

I state at the outset that I have no legal experience. I am not a lawyer or an expert on technical legalistic language, and I am somewhat overwhelmed by the experience around me, but I will swallow hard and continue. We have heard some pertinent contributions this afternoon about whether the words “personal characteristics” should replace “protected characteristics”, as defined in the Equality Act 2010. I hope to make the case for “protected” over “personal”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD)]

There is no research, and this Bill has been brought forward on a premise that, from my experience, is wrong. It is that the provision of a pre-sentence report means that the judge will go easier upon the defendant. I think that is wrong and, without research, I do not see how you can bring this Bill forward.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

I appreciate that the Minister is in an interminable situation, but he did not actually respond to my key point, which is that there is an existing protection including the current mitigating factor for pregnancy. I drew attention to what was published in April last year, which already directs sentencers to obtain a PSR before sentencing and to adjourn sentencing until one is available, but this Bill is now making that unlawful. That is my key point.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Again, I apologise for not being too repetitive, but I am very keen on making sure that I am accurate in everything that I say. I will write to the right reverend Prelate.

Police, Prison and Probation Officers

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am pleased to say that we as a Government are putting an extra £1 billion into policing, which will go a long way to addressing the neighbourhood policing issues that we have discussed.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, last week I observed the intensive supervision court in Birmingham, where women serving community orders for low-level offences are closely monitored by judges. Probation staff play a pivotal role. It is clear that the work is high and intense. What steps are the Government taking to urgently ensure that problem-solving courts have the best chance of succeeding—and, indeed, other creative community proposals that we hope will come out of the Independent Sentencing Review?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I hope we will not have to wait too long for the Independent Sentencing Review; I may need to ask some noble and learned Lords about what the exact dates are. The best day I have had in this job—and I have had lots of really good days—was going to the intensive supervision court in Birmingham. It was incredibly uplifting seeing female offenders coming up from the cells in the morning looking very ill and then seeing how the lives of those who have been engaging with the intensive supervision court for six months have changed. But they knew that they had to engage with probation, housing and often drug and addiction work—and, if they did not, they went to prison.

Protection of Prison Staff

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

Like all noble Lords, I was shocked to hear about the serious assaults against prison officers at HMP Belmarsh and HMP Frankland. It is a sorry state of affairs. We will not tolerate any violence against prison officers. Prisoners who are violent towards of staff will face the full consequences of their actions. The incident at HMP Belmarsh is subject to a police investigation; as such, we are unable to comment further at any level of detail at this stage. However, in the past few weeks, since the recent serious attack at Frankland, we have announced a number of steps to improve prison officer safety, including trialling tasers, suspending the use of self-cook areas for certain prisoners and reviewing whether protective body armour should be made available to front-line staff.

We also have a zero-tolerance approach towards extremist gang activity in prisons. Staff clamp down swiftly on any threatening behaviour. Our staff turn up to work to help people turn their lives around, not to get assaulted.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

Prison staff work with a wide range of prisoners, from those who are the most violent to the many who are in prison for repeated low-level offending—many of whom have mental health issues and drug addictions—yet the training for prison staff is woefully short: a matter of weeks. I think that people would be shocked to hear how short that is. What is being done to expand that training and development so that staff not only feel valued but are equipped to deal with such a wide range of situations?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I share the right reverend Prelate’s interest in prison officer training. When I did my review into their training, it was clear that the period in which they have to learn the detailed and complex skills to do the job is too short. I have launched a trial in London called the Enable programme, where we are giving far more time to training. I believe that we should have a 12-month training programme rather than one of a matter of weeks. We should also give officers the time to learn the more subtle skills of being an officer. It is clear to me that one of the best ways to tackle the problems in our prisons and Probation Service is to ask the people who do the job.

Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 7th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, I declare my interest as Anglican Bishop for prisons. I am grateful to be speaking in this Second Reading debate. I too greatly look forward to the maiden speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Nichols. Having said that, I do not believe this is a debate we should be having at all. I do not believe this rather theatrical legislation is necessary.

In a world of sufficient resources, as has already been said, there would be comprehensive pre-sentence reports for everyone, to which careful attention would be paid in court. If we have to prioritise PSRs, then it makes sense to prioritise those we know are especially vulnerable, or where there is evidence of disproportionate outcomes from the justice system. Will the Minister comment on why he thinks there was such shock at this apparent two-tier justice with regard to ethnicity but not the other cohorts in the guidance, such as young adults and pregnant women? Do the Government believe the issues raised in the landmark report by the current Foreign Secretary almost eight years ago are now a thing of the past? Is there no role for judges in mitigating the issues raised in that report?

The use of the Sentencing Council guidelines apparently to feed a culture war is distressing. The allegation of two-tier sentencing based around race, religion, belief or cultural background is damaging to public understanding. This is already shaped heavily by media headlines and the shocking and extreme cases of violent crimes, which are not the norm. Public understanding of why and how criminal sentences are handed down is severely lacking, as evidenced by the Justice Select Committee in 2023 and a recent Prison Reform Trust report detailing a citizen jury exercise. My own experience of talking to teenagers in schools is that more information about sentencing results in more considered responses and a greater sense of engagement with what we are trying to achieve, which surely goes beyond mere punishment.

At the heart of the Christian gospel is a God who holds together both justice and mercy. We need a big long-term vision. Surely long-term vision must be about transforming lives and communities, and that includes victims as well as offenders, recognising that many offenders are also victims.

If we are committed to the transformation of society, we need to take account of the impact of sentencing on families and the wider community. I am not saying that people who commit crimes should not receive punishment, but I am saying that sentencing should be much more than this and give the best possible outcomes for society.

In a recent judicial critique focused on sentence inflation, four former Lords Chief Justice, including the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, highlighted that people in prison are individuals, not statistics, and that the

“consequences of imprisonment on people’s lives—in prison and upon return to the community—need to be considered in the whole”.

They go on to say:

“Evidence suggests that what happens during and after a sentence, including rehabilitative interventions and resettlement support, is more important than sentence length”.


If we are to treat people in the justice system as individuals, that surely includes taking into account people’s circumstances, such as whether a woman is pregnant, and their characteristics, such as neurodiversity. I echo what was said about characteristics. We cannot pretend that circumstances and characteristics do not matter. Wise sentencing is threatened by this am-dram politics, and the Bill risks taking us backwards, not forwards. I firmly believe that we need less political control over sentencing, not more.

I urge the noble Lord to revisit the House of Commons Justice Committee’s 2023 recommendation of the establishment of an independent advisory body on sentencing. I would propose an additional step: a commitment from the Treasury, set out to Parliament, where Ministers propose to expand or lengthen custodial sentences against recommendations from the advisory board, thus resetting the relationship between politics and justice, including the public purse.

There is more I could say—much more—but I will end by engaging with the Government’s own rationale for this legislation. The Justice Secretary says that inequality in society is a matter for policy and not for the judiciary. How, then, will the Government create an equal society over their term of office so that these guidelines become redundant?

Sentences of Imprisonment for Public Protection

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Baroness that it is a terrible stain on our justice system. In the job that I am doing, it is my job to make sure that as many IPP-sentenced prisoners engage with the action plan, get released, stay out and not come back. In 2024, the number of IPP unreleased fell by 182, and recalls fell by 83, but noble Lords will, I am sure, be aware that we are dealing with a number of issues in our prisons at the moment to do with a lack of capacity. We are battling to make sure that we get prisoners in the right prison to engage with the action plan, and hopefully they will get out and stay out.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, taking into account what has been said already, I welcome the enactment of the provisions in the Victims and Prisoners Act, passed by the last Government, allowing termination of licence conditions for IPP prisoners. However, there are huge legal complexities involved, so I wonder what steps the Government are taking to ensure that those eligible to terminate their licence conditions actually understand their rights and are able to exercise them.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for her question, and I agree with her. I have met IPP prisoners, both in prison and in the community, who are not fully aware of the situation they are in and what they need to do from here, so she raises a good challenge to me and my colleagues in the Ministry of Justice, which I will take away and reflect on and get back to her.

Imprisonment for Public Protection (Re-sentencing) Bill [HL]

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 15th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, I add my voice in favour of the Bill, and say amen to all that I have heard. I declare an interest as the Anglican bishop for prisons in England and Wales. I an not going to repeat all that has been said regarding the shocking statistics that have already been outlined.

Like other noble Lords, I am glad that such sentences can no longer be given and that there have been some changes in the rules around the termination of licences, but those rules are complicated and not easy to navigate. That is particularly significant when it comes to offering hope and support not only to those serving their sentences but to families and friends as well.

At the heart of the Christian gospel is a living hope and a God who, in Jesus Christ, embodies both justice and mercy. The IPP sentence reflects neither justice nor mercy and does not offer hope. When I visit male prisons in particular, I can guarantee that the issue of IPP sentences will nearly always be raised by prisoners, officers and chaplains because of the reality of what is being experienced. Anyone who visits a prison and meets those serving IPP sentences will be struck by the sense of uncertainty, hopelessness and injustice and the impact that it has not only on individuals but on the wider prison and on families on the outside. Surely that is also not helpful for the victims of crime.

When there are people in cells watching those alongside them working towards a clear release date, while the person serving the IPP sentence has no such clarity and may remain in prison for longer than the person who seemingly committed a more serious offence, that of course seriously affects the well-being of the individual. It raises levels of anxiety, hopelessness and alienation, which impacts a wider prison environment and puts pressure on staff. I see and hear again and again the deterioration in mental well-being of those serving IPP sentences, which, ironically, leads to situations that then have an adverse effect on their sentence because of their outbursts of behaviour due to anger, frustration and hopelessness. The cycle is indeed vicious.

Many noble Lords will be familiar with the case of Rob Russell and the tireless campaigning of his brother Roddy. The brothers are originally from the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire, and I had the privilege of meeting Rob on a recent visit to HMP Swaleside. Rob was given an IPP sentence in 2009 with an initial tariff of two and a half years. He now suffers serious mental distress and seems to be in a disturbing vicious cycle. Prison is not the appropriate place to address his well-being and restoration. This is just one story among many. It is heartbreaking to hear the events of suicide and attempted suicide and to see how that pain and hopelessness continues to ripple out across prisons, families and communities.

I come back to the need for clarity regarding the purpose of prison. If we believe it is all about punishment, then IPP sentences are doing a jolly good job. If we believe in transformation, a reduction in reoffending and transforming lives that create stronger communities, then IPP sentences are failing. It is stark to hear prisoners and staff say how hard it is to speak of hope and justice when someone is living an IPP sentence. For the sake of the prisoners in question, the wider community and our society, I submit that a resentencing exercise is necessary. Like other noble Lords, I ask the Minister to think again on this important matter.

Prison Capacity

Lord Bishop of Gloucester Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord; if he stays around long enough, he may find a mention of himself in my maiden speech—a positive one. So far as finding work, when I first started recruiting people from prison, I was the only one knocking on the gates of the prison. We now have a good problem: that so many companies have recognised that there are talented people who want to leave prison and get a job that it has become a very competitive process. That is a positive thing.

We will conduct a sentencing review; it needs to focus on cutting crime, and to be consistent and coherent. The noble Lord asked about the new design of prisons. Two weeks ago we went to Five Wells, a very new prison just outside Wellingborough. The facilities it has really help to reduce reoffending; it has fantastic workshops and educational facilities, and the maintenance bills are much lower. I look forward to having the conversations again that we had probably 15 years ago.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, I too welcome the noble Lord, Lord Timpson—someone so brilliantly equipped for the task. I welcome this Statement and all the good sense contained in it as we lift this immediate crisis. I am all for new prison places, as long as they are not in addition to all the crumbling prison places. It was wonderful to hear him offer assurance that increased prison capacity will not become the main aim but rather, if I heard correctly, that we will have the courage to look at a whole-systems approach in a solution-focused way.

One of my concerns in all this is that unless we change the public perception and public narrative, we will not have support. Can the noble Lord say something about the thinking about how we change public education and perception, so that people understand what prison is for and not for, that two-thirds of people in prison are there for non-violent offences, and that we need to look upstream?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate. New prison places are important and we will build more prisons—prisons we are proud of. So far as the public narrative goes, I could not agree more, but I have confidence in the fact that 20 years ago, when I first started recruiting people from prison, no one thought it was a good idea. Now, every company I meet thinks it is a good idea. It proves that changing perception when it comes to offenders and prisons takes time. I hope to be in this role longer than many other people who have done my role, and to be able to get into the detail and try to get prisons we are proud of.