Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Lord Bailey of Paddington and Baroness Fox of Buckley

Report stage
Wednesday 11th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I want to give enthusiastic support to this amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Sater. I think that a criminal record disclosure regime is very important—we all understand that we do not want the worst of the worst working with children and so on —but the impact on rehabilitation is quite serious.

On Monday evening, it was therefore a great relief when the Minister said to those of us who were worried that non-crime hate incidents might be stored on a criminal database that could be used to prevent future employment or volunteering opportunities that that was a misplaced concern—although having the word “hate” by your name on a police database might not be what one would want.

In this instance, we are talking about people who have criminal convictions, have been in prison or have been serving their time. In working with former prisoners, I have known former drug addicts and gang members who have been invaluable as volunteers or in working with young people or youth services, but many of them are simply kept out of being able to help because of the barring scheme. A group of ex-prisoners that I had some dealing with wanted to do some work with care homes—we desperately need people to work in care homes. They were fully rehabilitated but were basically going to be barred from doing so. That seemed to me to be unfair and counterproductive. There was also a teenage victim of a grooming gang—a victim—who was convicted for soliciting prostitution at the age of 16. She should get a pardon, of course, but the main thing is that she is barred even from going on her own child’s school trips. She desperately wants to help out in the school, but she cannot.

These things should be looked at quite straight- forwardly. It is tricky, because I am aware that we do not want threatening people to work with, for example, children, but we should not be risk averse. I commend the noble Baroness on the wording, which is an appropriate balance between public protection and rehabilitation. There is no point putting people in prison and telling them that they will be different people and be given a second chance if they rehabilitate but then denying them that second chance when they leave prison. They might as well just carry on being criminals. I think this amendment is, as they say, a no-brainer, and I hope the Government will accept it.

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

My Lords, I support Amendment 390A from the noble Baroness, Lady Sater. I just want to give a practical look at this. As many noble Lords know, I have been a youth and community worker for well over 35 years now, and one of my biggest projects was to run a job club. Many of the young men in particular in my job club were very disappointed when they could not get work. Invariably, they had had some brush with the law that meant prison time, had done the work on themselves to be productive members of society, and came out, but then the barring code, DBS and all kinds of things got in the way. What do you believe they returned to then? They returned to the only skill they had, which was criminal activity. Most of the most serious criminals I dealt with—the repeat criminals, the ones that you really needed to cross the road for—were so because, at that moment when we could have assessed them slightly differently, when their youthful transgressions could have been looked at in a different light, we did not, and they then became a really serious, long-term problem to us all.

When I spoke to a group of young men very recently, and I keep saying men because I have been doing work with gang-involved young men, one of them finished our conversation by saying to me, “You”—by that, he meant us—“are doing it to yourselves”. He said that if we continue to view him as a criminal, he will continue to behave as a criminal.

We are all certain of two things: we do not want people who have committed crimes of the worst kind to go unpunished and get away with them, and we want to protect public safety. But since these rules first came in, some time ago now, our protection awareness and the rules have greatly advanced. As a trustee of a charity that does youth work, my job was to look at people’s criminal records and help to assess whether we could help them to work safely with our young people. Usually, we could do that, and for those for whom we could not we had to ask them to leave.

The idea that the Government should have a review is long overdue. If you really want to rehabilitate people, you have to show them that there is some chance that they can re-enter society and make up for what they may have done incorrectly. We understand that it is a balance but, again, as the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, pointed out, the wording of the amendment contains that balance. I commend it to the House.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Bailey of Paddington and Baroness Fox of Buckley

Report stage & 3rd reading
Friday 24th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

My Lords, this Bill is suboptimal. It is not the revolution that many leaseholders across the country have been desperate for, but it is the only game in town—a game that has taken 22 years to get to this point—and the Government should be commended for some things.

I have tabled this amendment because a share of freehold is more flexible and means that owners of flats can make any company arrangements that they wish, whereas commonhold is more top-down and restrictive. Residents would also have insolvency protection, which is always a good thing. Importantly, all leaseholders must be members of that share of freehold company to maximise alignment of interests and block any residents’ disputes. Forfeiture, as I have said before, is a gangster-like power. It needs to go, and I cannot see why that is not in this Bill.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, it is very difficult for us at this stage because a huge number of amendments have suddenly emerged. When I heard that the Government were putting forward so many, I was quite pleased, because I had had a very productive meeting with the noble Baroness, Lady Scott; I thought that we had made some strides in Committee and that there would be an attempt by the Government to strengthen the Bill for leaseholders. Then I saw all the amendments. I confess that I do not understand all the technical implications, but I know that, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, pointed out, the things that the Government have talked about in only the last couple of weeks—ground rent, forfeiture and so on—are not there.

I am delighted that this is in wash-up. I will not be able to speak on every group because, at this point, I just want to get the Bill through and do not want to do anything to delay it. I had hoped that the Government would be amenable to some of the constructive amendments, such as this one from the noble Lord, Lord Bailey, to give a bit of extra heft to a Bill which says the right things at the top but has left so many leaseholders frustrated. The Bill has left things dangling in front of them—“suboptimal” is entirely the right description.

When the Minister comes back, perhaps he could indicate whether there are any grounds for hope rather than that we end up spending too long on this discussion and somehow it does not even pass in the suboptimal state that it is in. How should we even view this discussion today? Is anyone listening?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

My Lords, I speak to my Amendment 67. When Parliament passed the Building Safety Act 2022, there was a major error within it. Anyone could be an accountable person except a manager appointed under Section 24 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987. Section 24 is a lifeline right for flat leaseholders with bad landlords, sky-high service charges and rundown buildings. Again, I return to my theme of control and the ability to remove a bad freeholder and a bad landlord—not a good one. Sadly, by barring Section 24 managers from being an accountable person, or at least from assuming that function, Section 24 is blown up.

Again, I just say that these are practical things that leaseholders will need. I believe that Labour colleagues also support this amendment. I would really like to hear from my noble friend the Minister why this cannot be done. It is a practical step, it does not seem to have any cost, and it would make a great deal of difference to the leaseholders involved.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, we are really close to the end. This is a very similar amendment to one that I proposed in Committee. In following on from what the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, said about the meeting with the Minister, I also had a meeting with the Minister half an hour before the election was announced, in which it was indicated that there was some interest by the Government in supporting this amendment. It is, of course, frustrating to be in this position in wash-up with regard to some of these details. For example, it was said only last week that, even if we were not going to get peppercorn ground rent, we might have had a very low £250 ground rent. We were all anticipating that Report would be a very positive and creative time to improve this Bill.

That was not to be the case; but for whoever takes on this brief in the future, the implication earlier today in some of the crosser exchanges was that nobody had thought about the implications of what this Bill was about. Many of us are bored of thinking of the implications and this issue has gone on for decades and decades and decades. Political parties of both sides have promised that they would resolve some of the anomalies associated with leasehold and move us on to commonhold. We are now in a situation where, through bad luck, we cannot have a full discussion on this particular Bill—it was inadequate anyway. At least we got it into wash-up, and I say simply that I found the department, the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, to be incredibly helpful.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Bailey of Paddington and Baroness Fox of Buckley

Committee stage
Monday 29th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

My Lords, my main focus so far has been boosting leaseholder control over service charges by removing barriers to the right to manage. However, we must dramatically reform the law for leaseholders who cannot gain this control and who wish to stand up to their freeholder on service charges. It is positive that the Government are enforcing service charge transparency and disclosure with the new right-to-inform scheme in Part 4, Clause 55, which makes changes to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, but I believe we need to go further and make it easier for leaseholders to challenge rip-off freeholders with their service charge.

Tribunals are very stressful: they take a long time and often do not have the power to enforce their decisions. This leaves leaseholders in a very strong predicament. Leaseholders normally have to file another application with the county court to get their money back for any overcharging, at least as they see it. My Amendment 78A is all about enforcement and giving teeth to tribunals’ decisions, where it has been determined that the service charges that the leaseholders have paid were not payable or were unreasonably incurred.

Various rules in Parliament have been passed in an attempt to regulate this behaviour of freeholders; again, I mean poor freeholders—the whole market is not like this. Often, these work only when leaseholders have the time, money and energy to enforce them at tribunal, which then is not always guaranteed when residents are up against armies of layers. Freeholders often hold many freeholds and have a big financial backing behind them and can just tire out leaseholders—they can work them into the ground and threaten them with forfeiture, for instance, should something go wrong. The Secretary of State was right to say that we need to put the squeeze on freeholders, but that means making freeholders actually fear leaseholders bringing cases against them at tribunal.

In my Second Reading speech, I mentioned that research from Hamptons has shown that leaseholders paid £7.6 billion in service charges. Many of those service charges were overcharge, and we want to create a situation where leaseholders can fight back. The annual service charge for flats in England and Wales has increased by 8.4% since the beginning quarter of 2023. Around 270,000 leaseholders are now paying more than £5,000 a year in service charges, which could quickly become a second mortgage for many leaseholders.

My Amendment 78A seeks to amend the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 regime for service charge disputes to try to make service charge tribunals against freeholders more serious by taking three important steps. One is by providing an opt-out. At the moment, leaseholders have to sign up for a case to benefit. Even if the tribunal determines that they have been overcharged, unless they have signed up their neighbour may receive a payment but they will not because they did not sign up. That is unfair in modern life: you could be elderly; you could have children; you could just be away when all these things are going on. Your neighbour would receive benefit and you would not, even though you would also have overpaid. That is why we need an opt-out, not an opt-in, to make it more serious.

Secondly, after a successful Section 27A challenge by any leaseholder in a block, the freeholder would be under a duty to account to all leaseholders within a two-month period of the decision being handed down. This means that any money overpaid would have to be paid back within two months, because leaseholders—many of them owning a place for the first time, many of them young people, many of them elderly people on fixed incomes—have paid out this money which they often could not afford. They should get it back in a speedy fashion.

Thirdly, there should be interest after a two-month period if the freeholder has not paid back money owed to the leaseholders. This is to give the sanction some bite and to make sure that a freeholder does not just wait out hapless leaseholders because they have all the power and the financial power.

I would like to see some more action in this Bill to deter and punish bad behaviour by freeholders and ensure that leaseholders can swiftly get their money back where overcharging has been determined by a tribunal. My Amendment 78A gets us closer to that position.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, Amendment 78 is about one part of service charges that sometimes gets neglected: the lack of consultation about major works that remain uncapped, opaque and difficult to challenge. This mainly affects those who have brought homes where the landlord or freeholder is a council. The amendment is also about the failed attempts by the law to help them in the past and whether we can use the Bill to rectify that.

In Committee last Wednesday it was implied that leaseholders are mainly wealthy home owners of luxury flats. These leaseholders deserve fair treatment, however wealthy they are, and they should not be ripped off, but many leaseholders do not fall into that category, with 49% of leaseholders being first-time buyers. We also have right-to-buy leaseholders who bought their own council homes, and leaseholders who bought former council homes because they were cheaper and therefore home ownership was within their grasp, rather than them being priced out of the market. I declare an interest as one of those people.

Leaseholders living in former council homes now face enormous refurbishment bills of tens of thousands of pounds, despite a legal cap being introduced 10 years ago, which is being circumvented by local authorities. The reason for major works is no doubt exacerbated by years of weak investment and cuts. Social housing estates do need to be maintained, and I understand that councils have difficulty doing that. However, neglect builds up and leaseholders end up being the ones who pay the price. The bill for entire blocks has been divided between the local authority and individual leaseholders because council tenants cannot be charged. Therefore, we end up with situations such as that of George and Alma, a couple who were suddenly landed with a £45,000 bill for windows in the roof of the estate, which do not even affect them, making them sick with worry. As has already been discussed, the disrepair that accumulates on estates ends up not just increasing service charges but coming as one large bill. George said, “I pay a service charge and I have not seen any work being done on a yearly basis—then suddenly we get this big bill”.

I am a Haringey leaseholder of a maisonette. I noted one extreme case that came to light during lockdown, when 76 leaseholders in Wood Green were told to find between £56,000 and £118,000 to cover Haringey repairs and improvements. One young woman, when she bought her maisonette in 2015, was told that major works planned would cost £15,000. Instead, after losing her job because of lockdown, she ended up with a bill of £110,000. Another couple, when buying their property, were given an estimated bill for major works of £12,500. Mid-completing buying their house, that had swelled to £25,000 with no explanation whatsoever for the increase, and they could not find out why. There was then stalling for five years, again with no explanation. Haringey then added in some other major works—roofs, windows and door replacements—so now the final bill is a whopping £108,450. To quote them, “We will be ruined”. The bill will be a third of what they paid for their home.

This is happening all over London, and councils’ responses have been complacent. Lambeth Council said: “We appreciate that major works can place a financial burden on leaseholders, which is why we offer a number of repayment options”. However, even those which break it down over five years, for example, which is one of the options available, can almost double some people’s mortgage, and this is even beyond increasing service charges.