Hillsborough Families Report: Government Response

Lord Addington Excerpts

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I open by thanking the noble and learned Lord for repeating the Statement. I open also by recalling that one of my oldest friend’s brothers was killed at Hillsborough and my friend took part in the inquiry. The name Hillsborough stands to this day as an indictment of institutions, individuals and a culture in which transparency and accountability were absent. The events of 15 April 1989 have continued to send shockwaves through our courts, to the continuing pain of the families concerned. To say that justice delayed is justice denied would be an understatement in this context. It has now been 34 years since the fateful day. I too pay tribute to Bishop James Jones, the many campaigners inside and outside Parliament, and particularly to a number of current and former MPs who have campaigned tirelessly to establish the truth. Of course, I want to pay tribute also to the bereaved families themselves, who have achieved so much through this process.

The purpose of the Government’s response must be centred on the experience of the families, just as Bishop Jones’s report was, to ensure that their suffering is remembered and never repeated. It is the commitment of the Labour Party that we will work to ensure that the Government’s proposals deliver justice with real meaning. We welcome the commitment to consult on expanding legal aid for families bereaved through public disaster, but there is nothing in what we have seen from the Government to date to suggest that they will go as far as is needed on requiring public authorities to act with candour and transparency.

To the public, a duty on all public bodies to be forthcoming with the truth is a basic requirement if justice is to be done in the wake of events that scar communities and change lives forever. The Hillsborough Law Now campaign, which, as the Government know, includes bereaved families who are still fighting for accountability 34 years later, has said that without an effective duty of candour in place, the risk is that reform will simply add another layer of bureaucracy to what victims have already experienced. For this very reason, more than a year ago the leader of the Opposition committed to a Hillsborough law that would, first and foremost, impose a legal duty on public institutions, public servants and officials to act in the public interest and with transparency, candour and frankness when there has been a major incident. The Labour Party sought to amend the Victims and Prisoners Bill to introduce this duty of candour during its passage through the House of Commons. This was rejected by the Government, but we will revisit this issue when the Bill passes through our House.

This issue is above party politics, but we believe that the Government’s requirement for a code of ethics or charter does not go far enough. We welcome the commitment to a standing or permanent independent public advocate, but we believe the duty of candour is a vital additional piece of protection for victims’ families. There may be further disasters—maybe I should say that there will be further disasters—perhaps on the scale of Hillsborough. If there is to be one legacy from this whole sorry tale, let it be that bereaved families from disasters of the future are never treated like the families of the Hillsborough victims.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. This was one occasion when it was actually needed. Can he convey my thanks to those on the Government Front Bench for making sure that happened? I think it was appropriate on this occasion.

We have had a response that says many good things, but there is a network of codes, charters and advocates going through—other bits of law. Anybody who has ever done campaigning work knows that if you are trying to get a good result, the gaps between those codes, charters and bits of legislation are where people catch their feet, where they are slowed down, where they fall. One law, where you know what you are dealing with, has to be easier to navigate. It is not for an experienced lawyer to turn around and say, “Oh, but it’s quite simple: all you do is this, that and the next thing”.

Many of the changes here are welcome. For instance, the equality of arms—the fact that government-backed bodies cannot simply throw limitless money against somebody who is trying to hold them to account, and that they will instead be supported—is something that we can welcome. But it would be easier if we had a law. That is why my Benches, along with those of the Labour Party, are in favour of having one, single unit. You have to draft it correctly, and there is always that problem, but it would give you a chance to get through and make sure you get the right result, so that somebody campaigning from the outside understands what they are doing. That is something we might have lost here. We have an experienced bunch of people who have been fighting for a long time to get through. There is a great deal of expertise in this lobby. Think of them when they started—how intimidated they were and how easy it would have been for them to be scared off by just the edifice of law, because that happens.

I would hope that the public advocate or somebody else will have that duty of explanation. Where is that in these codes and charters? Where is that ability to explain the law to somebody and make sure they understand? The noble and learned Lord nods his head. If we hear good news on this, we will have achieved something. How do we make sure people know how to apply what the Government have done? Because many good schemes, by Governments of all colours, have fallen down because of that. As I look around this Chamber, everybody here can probably think of an example. Can we find out what is happening there?

Also, will we continue to have access to some of the things that were used as trigger points for this action, such as the Human Rights Act and the European Convention on Human Rights? If they are removed in some change, will something else act as a trigger point for being able to act, through this apparently seamless bit of crazy paving, to enable people to make a challenge when something has gone wrong? That is an important point: how does it work, who will guide you through it? If it is not one straight road, who will guide you through the twisting paths so you can mount a challenge when something has gone wrong? That is something we need to hear soon because, if that is not clear, some of the good work that has gone on here could well be wasted.

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, to respond to the points that have been made and in particular, the principal point about the need for a Hillsborough law going slightly further than the Government have gone today, I first repeat again the tributes that have been paid to the families and the fight they have had, as the noble Lord, Lord Addington, has just pointed out. I entirely accept that, first of all, this is not a party-political issue, as far as I am aware. It is not at issue that there should be a duty of candour, that public authorities should act with candour; the question is whether, in the envisaged Hillsborough law, the public accountability Bill that Bishop Jones and his report discussed, we should have that duty of candour enforced by criminal sanctions on individual public servants, or whether we should proceed, as the Government at present believe, by a non-statutory route—by the charter and by the existing codes.

I will, if I may, address what is probably the most important point to make tonight; I am sure we will return to it in the Victims and Prisoners Bill discussion when we get there. I shall briefly set out the Government’s position on that point and then come to the other points made, especially by the noble Lord, Lord Addington. The first point is that the Government currently consider that the non-statutory framework of the Civil Service Code, the Code of Conduct for Special Advisers, the Ministerial Code and the Nolan principles of public life, backed by disciplinary sanctions and, if I may say so, rigorously upheld by the Government legal service and the law officers, is an effective mechanism for ensuring candour, frankness and honesty from civil servants as a framework. The Government therefore prefer to reinforce that culture of candour through the non-statutory route and the most important introduction of the Hillsborough charter, which was the primary recommendation of Bishop Jones. It was his main recommendation that there should be a charter: the duty of candour was a subsidiary one; the charter was the first one and we are introducing it.

If you introduce what I—or the Government—would describe as the blunt instrument of criminal sanctions into a situation such as this, you risk introducing a whole range of legal complexity and another layer of the need for legal advice and so forth into a situation where, in the Government’s view, we already have a comprehensive framework that is now being very strongly reinforced by the Hillsborough charter. The charter is going to be signed by all relevant public bodies. It has been signed today on behalf of the Government; it is set out on page 11 of the Government’s response and ensures that the public bodies in question place the public interest above their own reputation. That is particularly welcomed today by Bishop James, who says that, although it is true that the Government has fallen short of the hopes of the Hillsborough families— I think that is a reference to a Hillsborough law—the Government have made a serious and substantial response to his report that has risen above that given to other panels and inquiries. They have responded to all 25 recommendations, and Bishop James has very much welcomed the charter and the other measures that the Government have announced.

Specifically, in relation to the police, the Criminal Justice Bill will require chief officers to ensure that their organisations act with candour in official proceedings. There is, therefore, a duty of candour reinforced through law on the police. That is crucial: point of learning number 14 in the bishop’s report suggested that there should be a duty of candour on the police. That is also being implemented. In addition to that, as I think the Statement said, individual officers are now under a personal duty to co-operate with investigations and inquiries as a result of changes to the police conduct regulations of 2020. That should deal with the question of the police and with Bishop James’s point of learning 14.

The Government are also considering whether we should further reinforce the existing duty of candour. There is an existing duty of candour on the health service. It is regulatorily enforced; it is not enforced by criminal sanctions. There is a question, however, arising from the Lucy Letby case and other incidents as to whether that should be reinforced, and that is under review as well. So we are moving forward on many fronts. The Government will also—I hope early next year—respond to the Law Commission report on the offence of misconduct in public office, which is another possible route to achieve the protections that people are arguing about. This is a disagreement about what routes we should go down, rather than a disagreement on whether we should reinforce candour in public office.

Putting those things all together, the Government’s position is that we have not yet reached the point where we should have the kind of Hillsborough law that noble Lords have just been arguing for. Again, however, as the Lord Chancellor has said in his Statement, the Government’s door remains open. No door is slammed on this point, and we will continue to reflect and take into account the comments of the families and the practical, procedural, legal and other issues that are raised.

Finally, in relation to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Addington, on the need for families to find out how to do all this and where to go next: we can only imagine the situation that they are in. The Government’s intention and hope is that the independent public advocate will play a crucial role in that respect. That will be the main source of guidance, support and help for victims’ families in major disasters of the kind that gave rise to Hillsborough and other tragedies. That is the answer in principle to the point that the noble Lord was making. At this stage of the debate, those are the main points that I should be making on behalf of the Government.

Public Advocate Bill [HL]

Lord Addington Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 16th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord just said, this Bill has been a long time coming. It is coming because of a felt public need that the general public did not get justice, having been confronted by what turned out to be at least some elements of cover-up and, to be perfectly honest, behind-covering by the establishment. The cover-up, as the noble Lord just mentioned, involved the use of stereotypes, saying that the group were all hooligans. That was an easy position to take in the late 1980s when football did not have a good reputation, but it was not the case here. People then refused to admit that they had made mistakes. This appalling record is only just finishing now, three and a half decades later. On those grounds alone, the noble Lord is absolutely justified in taking up Parliament’s time as he has. There can be no real argument about that.

I am sure the Minister will say that these circumstances could not happen now or as easily. That is possible, and there may be something in that—it is a pretty standard government reply. They go through a process of saying, “We’ve done something”, but if it is not absolutely transparent, they have not addressed the biggest part of this. People having to fight to put their rights in law is the starting point of many a campaign. It is very easy to pass a law and say that this should not happen, but everybody who has been involved in any campaign knows that the real work starts in making sure that the law is enforced and that the people in power understand it and implement it properly.

From my experience of Parliament, that is my message about what should be done: you can have a nice statement about everything that should happen, but how do you enforce it? How do you find those people who do not understand how or are unwilling to enforce it, because it is difficult or it makes them look bad? That is what happened here, and it led to obfuscation, people not admitting what had gone wrong and a legacy of distrust.

I will not be as elegant as the noble Lord, Lord Wills, was when he introduced the idea of a tripartite approach, but I hope the Minister will tell us that people will be able to see what is going on and have someone who can guide them through it. If that element is brought in, the biggest potential gain of this Bill will have been achieved—ensuring that people understand what is happening. That is what did not happen. When someone defends themselves with the stereotype of “This is what people like this do”, we can say that, no, it did not happen like that, or indeed it did, to let people know what happened and the justification for that decision.

Making a process transparent, and one that people trust in, is something which all bits of government should at the moment take very seriously. This predates the height of conspiracy culture, but here there is a chance to address it, and to address it when things have gone seriously wrong. If the Government are not prepared to seize this opportunity, they are making a big mistake, and making it much more difficult for anyone who sits on the Treasury Bench to find the time and effort to go back to this. I hope the Government can assure us that they will either expand what they have taken from the aims of this Bill or show us where they will achieve it somewhere else. Saying that the current system is fine really will not cut it.

Prisons: Education

Lord Addington Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend in paying tribute to Timpson. There are many other employers with which we are in close touch. The Prison Service has recently introduced prison employment advisory boards in all prisons and an employment innovation fund, and heads of education, skills and work will be established across the prison estate. This is all to improve post-prison employment, which is, I am glad to say, on the increase.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, would the Minister agree that prisoners have probably the highest density of special educational needs of any group in society? All these groups need different learning patterns compared to the norm to be successful. Is the prison education service equipped to, first, identify and, secondly, provide the extra different types of learning to this client base? If not, it is not going to succeed.

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that the Prison Service needs to be equipped, and I respectfully suggest that it is. There are a whole range of things here. There is the core curriculum, which is made up of English, maths and digital skills; vocational courses, such as construction; personal development courses; and digital personal learning plans. I assure the House that the Government are on the case and working hard to improve matters.

Independent Public Advocate

Lord Addington Excerpts

Thursday 2nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for the Statement which he just read out; there is much to welcome in it. I add my thanks to all those mentioned in it. Above all, the Government’s action yesterday is a tribute to the heroic campaigning of the Hillsborough families over decades. However, as the families themselves have said, the Government have not gone far enough.

Your Lordships will recall that the idea of an independent public advocate was born in your Lordships’ House seven years ago, when the Private Member’s Bill of my noble friend Lord Wills had its Second Reading; my noble friend sends his apologies—his health prevents him being here today but I know that he supports what I am going to say. As a Minister, my noble friend was the key architect of the Hillsborough panel. His experiences led him to draft his Public Advocate Bill, which was supported by all sides of your Lordships’ House at Second Reading. Since then, he has continued to campaign for it, alongside the right honourable Maria Eagle, who has championed it in the other place.

Two key elements of that Private Member’s Bill are missing from the Government’s Statement. First, the Statement denies effective agency to bereaved families in calling the independent public advocate into being. We should understand how profoundly the Hillsborough families and others bereaved by public disasters have felt let down by successive Governments in the aftermath of a public tragedy. We must offer them reassurance that others similarly bereaved in future will not be similarly let down. We must give them the agency that the Government are currently denying them.

Secondly, the independent public advocate must have the power to establish a Hillsborough-type panel. It was only that panel which exposed the cover-ups in the aftermath of the disaster and secured the transparency that the families deserved and for which they have campaigned. The Labour Government who set up the panel and the Conservative Government who supported it to its conclusion set a welcome precedent. This Government must not now row back on that precedent.

Yesterday, through this Statement, the Government indicated their willingness to make changes to their earlier proposals. I welcome that. We will hold them to that commitment to ensure that bereaved families in future receive the agency and transparency that they are owed and for which the Hillsborough families have campaigned for so long and so heroically. I have one question for the Minister: when might we expect to see the victims Bill?

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, this is one piece of legislation that I am very glad to see but very sorry, of course, that it had to happen. We have here a response to things going very badly wrong. The three examples mentioned are things that we did not expect to go wrong but did, with horrible consequences. They all have in common that they happened quickly and on one day. I can think of a few other things. My noble friend Lady Brinton, who hoped to be here but has not been able to make it, gave the example of contaminated blood. Would this be caught by any definition as a case where independent public advocacy is required?

I am still not clear on whether one person or a panel is coming through here. That is probably my fault. When will the trigger point to get involved be? Will it be case law? Will it be a judgment? To add to that, my example was the accounting cock-up—I cannot think of any other way to put it, although that is putting it too mildly—with the Post Office system. That is a massive problem that has caused tremendous harm and, it is assumed, loss of life through suicide on numerous occasions. Where the trigger point will be is very important.

My noble friend Lady Brinton was also going to ask how much resource could be called on. It will probably have to vary because there will be differing circumstances and different bodies to call on. How will the Government have the resources to follow it through? Will they set a precedent of what is initially available and where to go, because in all three cases—here and in the two that I have just mentioned—there will be slightly different requirements to do stuff. A fixed panel will not to be able to do it—end of story. There needs to be a greater degree of flexibility than just having a panel. The capacity to call in expertise as one goes through will be needed.

I hope we will have further discussion on this before we get legislation. We will have to know, or we will have yet another long and brutal session in Committee and on Report to get this out. An issue such as this should not have that because we have had all the discussion already. We know what we are trying to get at. If we know that we will be removing a few cases from this which have to go somewhere else, then fair enough. There will have to be a line drawn somewhere, but there will be an argument about what the trigger point is.

My principal point is: what is the trigger point for having the body brought into action? That must be set. If the Government do not know now, can we know the process by which they will decide? The first time that we decide will be incredibly important for what follows. Will resources after that follow the individual case or will they remain in place? Let us ensure that we know exactly what is happening here, because I am afraid that without that, we are getting nowhere.

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords for their comments and interventions. I begin by indicating and reiterating the willingness of the Government to work collaboratively across party with all these measures and to consider possible changes to the scheme that I have briefly outlined. Speaking for myself, in response to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, it seems very sensible to have those discussions in early course so that we do not get into a legislative battle when the Bill is already set in stone.

On the specific points raised, and subject to my renewed expression of willingness to discuss this, whether to give agency to the families is a very important point for further discussion. At the moment, it is envisaged that the Government should trigger the appointment or operation of the public advocate in particular circumstances, but the question of what power to give the families to trigger it is for further discussion.

Similarly, the power to establish a Hillsborough-type panel is something that we need to consider in some detail, not least with a view to avoiding duplication. We have had some expertly conducted inquiries—on Grenfell by Sir Martin Moore-Bick and on Manchester Arena by Sir John Saunders. One does not want to duplicate or overconfuse the issue; we need to work out the exact relationship between that kind of statutory inquiry and this kind of operation. Those are matters for further discussion.

The noble Lord, Lord Addington, raised the issue of scope. The concept at the moment is that of an event—a specific disaster like the three that we have been talking about: Hillsborough, Manchester and Grenfell. Whether contaminated blood, the Post Office and the NHS-type scandals that we have unfortunately experienced over the years fall within the definition is for further reflection. They are probably not events, as presently constituted, so we need to think about this further. Will this have a roving remit for everything that goes badly wrong somewhere in the system or is it directed specifically at major disasters? At the moment, the Government’s thinking is the latter but, again, I express my willingness to consider this further.

On resources, clearly this will not work unless sufficient resources are available. Exactly how that is done, where they come from and on whose budget they fall are all details that need to be refined.

We have taken a decision in principle. It is now for everyone to work collectively across the parties to sort out the details and make this work, in the interests of the families, whom we will consult fully to make sure that we have filled in the gaps, closed the loops and got a good working system to make sure that Hillsborough never happens again.

Mental Capacity Act 2005: Small Payments Scheme

Lord Addington Excerpts

Thursday 2nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, it is not simply a question of cost to financial institutions. There is a whole range of problems here and an essential tension between protection against abuse and simplicity of process. In this area, where it is possible to have very different views, the Government feel that the principle established in the 2005 Act, placing responsibility with the Court of Protection, is right.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, when the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, raised this, I said that he had put his finger on an absurdity, and it is quite clear that I was right on that one at least. Can the Government give us some undertaking of what they are doing to make sure that, when parents put money into funds for their children’s future, they are told all the things they have to do to make sure the child can access it properly? Saying that there should be greater awareness will not help; you need one place to go that says, “This is the legal process”.

Her Late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

Lord Addington Excerpts

Saturday 10th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, when training to be a professional linguist, I was trained to drill down to as few words as possible, so forgive my lack of eloquence now. When I think of Her late Majesty the Queen, I drill down to one word: grace. She exercised grace in her responsibilities at every level, and it was rooted in her avowed and admitted need of the grace of God; it was where her discipline of accountability came from.

It is only by sitting here when the Queen was delivering her gracious Speech one year that I realised that we inhabit the constitution here. We do our business, as the judiciary, the Executive and the legislature, in the name of Her Majesty, but she reads the gracious Speech in the name of God as she looks up and sees the barons of the Magna Carta around this Chamber. It is that accountability that must lie at the heart of her legacy, if our words are not to be merely sentimental, nostalgic or empty. I trust that, in the reign of King Charles, this accountability, rooted in his already stated need of the grace of God, will characterise our common life. Long live the King.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

Thinking about the reign of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, I have been struck by several factors. First, like most people alive today, I have only ever known a Queen. When you say, “God save the King”, it seems like something from a historical play, and we will have a great deal of getting used to it. This has become apparent, listening to these tributes, by the number of noble Lords who have made the mistake—I will probably make it myself—of referring to the Queen in the present tense rather than the past. There is a very strong feeling of a permanency that has been removed.

Secondly, the greatest achievement of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth’s reign is probably soft power. My noble friend Lord Alderdice has already mentioned her tremendous achievement in Ireland by making the settlement work there. I hope it is also worthwhile for me to join those who have commented on the Commonwealth. When an empire becomes a commonwealth, it is a considerable achievement. Empires do not usually come about because a nation has been invited to rule people; there are usually marching feet and weapons involved. The fact that we have transformed the Empire into the Commonwealth, and that it has grown and prospered, is a magnificent achievement. The fact that it was achieved by people who were not involved in that Empire is remarkable. This was all done under the leadership of Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. It will probably be regarded as her greatest achievement: the United Kingdom’s soft power, its projection and its cultural values have become things that we will all remember.

There is also the personal touch. As has already been mentioned, the Queen was “the Queen”; there was no other worldwide. The best example of that that I can find is from many years ago. I went through a friend’s record collection and found a BB King album on which he talks about meeting the Queen and giving her advice about what you do when you have too many parties to go to. I feel that the advice could probably have been going the other way. Nevertheless, everybody knew who the Queen was, and His Majesty King Charles III has a great opportunity and burden to carry on that work. I wish him every success.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

During her long reign, Her late Majesty demonstrated hard work, tireless commitment, loyalty, dignity and respect for duty and became the longest-serving monarch in British history. The changes that she saw over that time are quite astounding. In my part of the United Kingdom—Wales—the heavy industry that I grew up with in the mining areas has given way to financial and other services. Indeed, the United Kingdom itself is very different. Power is dispersed to other Parliaments in the four nations of the UK. Movement to and from the Commonwealth, the European Union and beyond has fashioned a more diverse and multicultural people in our society. Throughout her long life, the late Queen was an example of the importance of public duty. She clearly valued community, public service and loyalty to others.

I echo the comments of the First Minister of Wales, who said yesterday:

“It is with great sadness that”


people in Wales mourn

“the death of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II”

and

“her long and exceptional life, as our longest reigning monarch”.

Perhaps the most significant and long-lasting connection between Wales and the late Queen grew out of her empathy following the Aberfan disaster, as noted by my noble friends. That Friday in October 1966, as a young schoolgirl in Pontygwaith Primary School in the Rhondda, I stood in the playground after lunchtime and, along with my friends and under the instruction of our headmaster Mr Lewis, I closed my eyes, put my hands together and prayed for the children of Aberfan. I had never heard of the place before that day, as it was several valleys to the west, but I have never forgotten it since. The late Queen continued to make visits to the village over the decades and, indeed, visited it more than any other member of the Royal Family.

The first time I saw her in person was at Buckingham Palace in the summer of 2009. I was struck by her luminescence; she simply shone. The next time I saw her in person was in your Lordships’ House in December 2019 when attending my first State Opening, and the moment of seeing her again in person was extraordinary, especially as I was now one of her trusty and beloved servants, a phrase and understanding that will live with me for the rest of my life.

Yesterday was the day His Majesty conferred the title of Prince of Wales—Tywysog Cymru—on his eldest son. God bless the Prince of Wales. Yesterday evening, I joined the Bishop of Monmouth and the leader of Newport City Council at the city’s St Woolos’ Cathedral to take part in a service of thanksgiving for the life of our late Queen. It was a moment of extreme poignancy to sing for the first time in public—and we are good singers in Wales—“God save the King”, and I am glad that it took place in my home city and the place from where I proudly take my title. Tomorrow, I shall join the leader of the council and others to take part in the official proclamation ceremony at Newport Civic Centre and will then return to London on Monday to hear the King’s Address to both Houses of Parliament.

On the death of his father, Wales’s finest poet, Dylan Thomas, wrote:

“Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”

God bless you, ma’am, and may you rest in peace. Er côf annwyl. God save the King.

Child Trust Funds

Lord Addington Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, my officials met Mr Nyahasha on 17 August, and we are well aware of this proposal. The problem is that it is not a matter of the Government recognising the scheme; the scheme, I am afraid, is inconsistent with the Mental Capacity Act, and it is fundamental to the rule of law that the Government act in accordance with legislation passed by this Parliament. Therefore, we cannot just bless schemes that are inconsistent with the legislation. If we want to solve this, we have to change the legislation. That is what the consultation is aimed at.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, it is quite clear that the cock-up school of history has been proven correct on this issue. The Minister has said that the law is incompatible with the current status and intention of this. Surely we have enough time in Parliament to change the law. Will the Government guarantee that we get that time?

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, guaranteeing government time might be a little above my unpaid pay grade—but what I can say is that there will be a consultation. As the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, pointed out, there are interests to balance here. There will be, I hope, an eight-week consultation, and I invite everybody to be part of that. Following that, if we are going to legislate, I agree that it is something we should be getting on with.

Child Trust Funds: People with a Learning Disability

Lord Addington Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, we are putting the consultation material together as quickly as we can. The noble Lord is certainly right that we have to balance the ability of young adults to access their own funds against the importance of the protections given by the Mental Capacity Act to young adults who lack the mental capacity to manage those funds or give instructions to others to do so.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, we have been going at this for a while. Would the Minister agree that a parent who has filled one of these trust funds for someone who is now a young adult should be presumed to have their best interests at heart, unless there is another good reason? Saying that you now have a warning system for those coming up is of no assistance to those who have already matured.

Child Trust Funds: Children with Learning Disabilities

Lord Addington Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for referring to Mr Justice Hayden, with whom I have met and who I know is personally committed to resolving this. It is fair to say that our understanding of all sorts of mental capacity is considerably greater now than it was in 2005, when the Act was passed, and in 1995, when the Law Commission reported on this issue. We are therefore looking to address this.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Young, for bringing this to our attention and for his wonderful summary of that letter. If we agree that the money is for the children, and that they are capable of spending money in other situations, why have the Government not used the capacity of this Chamber and the other place to make sure that this happens?

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the position is this: in 1995, when the Law Commission reported on this, it recommended a small claims exception to the Mental Capacity Act. Parliament did not do that; it put in a Mental Capacity Act with no exceptions at all. That is the legislative background against which I now have to operate.

Learning Disabilities: Child Trust Funds

Lord Addington Excerpts

Thursday 11th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, there are a number of ways in which the requisite capacity, or lack thereof, can be established and assessed by the court, and those issues probably take me outside the bounds of an answer here. I will write to the noble Baroness to give more detail.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, last time this was discussed, I said that the Minister had pointed out an absurdity. He has still got his finger on it. Can he give the House an assurance that we will not only get a solution but will hear about when that is reached, and that banks and their internal bureaucracy are informed about this so it can be done quickly?

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the present situation is absolutely unfortunate. One of the problems is that this does not seem to have been anticipated by the Government which put child trust funds into existence. We are doing all we can, and I will certainly report back to your Lordships’ House on the progress we make. As I have already said, I am personally committed to ensuring that this problem is solved.