Early Parliamentary General Election Bill
Lloyd Russell-Moyle ExcerptsTuesday 29th October 2019
(5 years ago)
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Jeremy Corbyn
No, I will not give way.
What this legislation does is sum up in a couple of words the undemocratic and authoritarian instincts of this Government and this Prime Minister in relation to Parliament. I want to put on record my thanks to my friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) for her persistence in tabling that amendment last night, which means that the House will have an opportunity to debate a number of very serious amendments today. We will be seeking to expand the franchise in the December election, which means supporting votes at 16, as is the case now for Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly elections. It also means that we support the rights of EU citizens with settled status to vote in elections in this country. After all, we do recognise their contribution to our society. We do give them votes in local elections, so it seems to me only logical that, since they have made their future in this country in our society, they should have a right to vote on their future as well, and I look forward to supporting those amendments later on today.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
I look forward to getting out on the campaign trail and smashing the Conservatives at the ballot box and returning more Labour colleagues here. I am particularly pleased by what my right hon. Friend has just said around EU settled status here. We already allow our Commonwealth citizens to vote in our elections, so can we try to ensure that all EU citizens who are settled here get to vote as well?
Jeremy Corbyn
My friend is right. Commonwealth citizens have permanently had the right to vote in British elections, and that is absolutely right, and, as far as I know, most Commonwealth countries reciprocate. Our relationship with Ireland means that all Irish nationals have an automatic right to vote in UK elections and vice versa.
Principles of Democracy and the Rights of the Electorate
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 1 month ago)
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The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Oliver Dowden)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the principles of democracy and the rights of the electorate.
This is a Government who believe in letting the British people exercise their democratic rights, and as Minister for the Cabinet Office my responsibilities include the smooth running and safeguarding of our elections and ensuring that every elector has the opportunity to cast their vote.
Since we came to office in 2010, we have made significant progress to give more people a say. Through the implementation of individual electoral registration, we have grown the electoral roll to nearly 47 million people—the biggest that it has ever been. People across the country are now able to go online to ensure that they have the opportunity to cast their votes. We have worked to open up the franchise for homeless people and increased accessibility for those with disabilities. We have committed to introducing voter ID, to protect the ballot and to stop those who want to steal other people’s identities and votes. Voters deserve to have confidence that their elections are secure and protected from electoral fraud.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
Can the Minister tell me what evidence he has that introducing voter ID reduces the amount of fraud more than it reduces the participation of legitimate voters?
Oliver Dowden
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I would recommend that he read the Electoral Commission’s report on that subject. I frankly find it astounding that Opposition Members should think that we should not have identity for voting. People in major democracies such as Canada are aghast that people can turn up at our polling stations with no evidence of their identity.
Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
To help the Minister on this point, I can tell him that the very first moment that I get a chance to sit at my desk I will be asking him to come to the House for an end-of-day Adjournment debate, in which I will give him evidence from my constituents of the kind of practice that is going on in my constituency, in their view, which I am quite sure will stand up to the requirement to make the changes that he would advocate.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Luke Graham). I agree that nationalism is a real problem. That is why it is such a shame that some Members in his party—maybe not him—seem to be pursuing an English nationalist policy that is likely to lead to the break-up of our Union. If it is done badly, that policy could lead to a hard border in Northern Ireland, to the departure of Northern Ireland and to further fragmentation. It is based on the view that the English nation should rule over other nations and that those nations’ views of the Union should be disregarded because English nationalism is the most important. I believe that is what some of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues are pursuing in their hard Brexit view. That is very worrying, and we should reflect on it across the House.
I also agree with the views of my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes). She described the importance of hearing all the voices in a debate. For me, the principle of democracy is that the losing side should be able to keep making its argument. As soon as that principle is removed, democracy has ended. If we say that a moment in time that will quickly vanish into the history books over the next three or four years should hold and bind all peoples and that alternatives should not be pursued, that will have a chilling effect on our wider democracy. Why not say that we will cancel all future elections? Why not say that the Opposition should not be allowed into the Chamber this week because the Government won the last election and only the Government should rule? I respect the result of the last general election, and not only because I was elected in it and defeated a Conservative. However, the first thing I did was vote against the Queen’s Speech. The first vote I cast was to defeat the manifesto that had just won and to attempt to bring down the Government and force a new election. That is the Opposition’s right in a democracy—to keep opposing. It is not the duty of Oppositions to implement the winning side’s programme; that is the duty of the winning side. That is true in a general election and in a referendum.
We talk about respecting different sides. I come from a remain area, but there are some leave areas that are sceptical about how things are playing out. Those views must be respected. I fear that the way in which some of the Conservative hardcore Brexiteers disrespect Opposition views is a symbol of how they treat democracy more broadly.
Let us consider electoral registration and the boundary changes. Rather than choosing a high moment to draw boundary lines—for example, at the time of the referendum or a general election—it was deliberately done at a time when the number of people on the electoral register was at its lowest. It happened just after we had changed to individual registration, but before any public vote had taken place. We know many people who choose or remember—it is not a choice; everyone should do it—to register when an election comes round. Why on earth do we not draw the boundaries according to the census? Why not include everyone in the debate? What happened with registration is a sign that the Government are disingenuous about including all voices.
Rather than trying to set up citizens’ assemblies, open up a national discussion about how our country goes forward or open up the register, perhaps allowing, for example, schools to register people to vote, the Government close down the debate. They say that we surrender if we question a way forward, that people cannot register to vote unless they fit into small parameters and that they will redraw boundaries to exclude people disproportionately. That is the nature of our democracy: fragile. I hope that we regain it.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Kevin Foster)
It is always a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker. This has been a fascinating debate and we have heard a range of contributions. In the spirit of civility, I say that I always enjoy my conversations with my two shadows, the hon. Members for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) and for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith). I hope they agree that we treat each other with respect and that although we may disagree at times, we are still able to find common ground in the mutual interest of those we represent.
I will start by responding to some of the issues raised. Contrary to some of the comments we have heard, the individual electoral registration reforms produced the biggest electoral roll ever at the last general election, with more people registering to vote than ever before. Online registration is one of the easiest methods for younger voters in particular to get themselves on the electoral roll. That is a sign of commitment. It is now literally possible to register online. People can do it in a few minutes. They no longer have to get a form and send it to their local council. Obviously, the arrangements in Northern Ireland are slightly different. Many of us know the reasons for that, and it has a more devolved structure.
Kevin Foster
I will not take interventions, given that I have given up time to allow more Members to contribute to the debate.
We are also looking at reforming the annual canvass and are working constructively with the Scottish and Welsh Governments. The system is great at identifying people who have lived in one location for a long time, but we want to reform it, through the use of databases and other information, so that it targets other communities that we also want on the electoral register. We want a modern system. Fundamentally, the system originated in the 19th century, when heads of household would register to vote on behalf of the whole household, but that does not reflect modern lifestyles. It also means that resources are not targeted to getting the most vulnerable on the roll.
It has been good to hear some of the other speeches. I cannot go through them in detail, but I certainly enjoyed the contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Ochil and South Perthshire (Luke Graham) and for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely), especially when they talked about picking and choosing results. It is interesting to see how referendums described as once in a generation or once in a lifetime, with people told, “You have the power in your hands to make a sovereign choice,” suddenly, a couple of years later, become a matter of, “Actually, we’d like to have a rethink, please, and it was only an opinion poll.” In fact, referendums are different: people are told that they will make the decision and it will be binding.
People know my views on the separation of the Union; I think it would be a hugely retrograde step. However, had that been the decision of the Scottish people in 2014, we would have had to vote through the legislation. We cannot pick and choose which result we respect.
Early Parliamentary General Election
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
What the Prime Minister has put to us is clearly a poisoned chalice. He is like the schoolroom clown, who thinks that he can offer us something while dancing around and blabbering from the Dispatch Box. But we know who he is. He is a man who has been twice sacked for lying. He clearly is a person we cannot trust, and we therefore—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman is referring to parts of a Member’s career. I do not think he is making any allegation, and I sincerely hope that he is not—[Interruption.] If you will let me finish, I hope he is not making any allegation about the conduct of a Member in this Chamber.
Mr Speaker
He is not, and therefore he is not out of order—[Interruption.] He is not out of order. I know the rules, and I know how to interpret them. I do not require any guidance from anybody on that matter. I am very clear about that. I say to him that there is much to be said for moderation in the use of parliamentary language. As somebody who likes the hon. Gentleman, I urge him to be a little more courteous.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle
I will correct myself and say that the Prime Minister was allegedly sacked for lying twice, and the public—
Oral Answers to Questions
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 5 months ago)
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Oliver Dowden
I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman would welcome figures that show we are spending more with small businesses than ever before. On his point about prompt payment, we set a very challenging target of 90% of undisputed invoices from SMEs being paid within five days and we are meeting that for most Departments.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Mr David Lidington)
We are now moving towards the 20th anniversary of devolution in Scotland and Wales and we are making every effort possible to restore devolved Government in Northern Ireland. Under this Government, the devolved Parliaments have been given more powers than ever before, with new powers over income tax, transport and the benefit system, and we have been clear that, when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, a significant number of powers will flow back to those Parliaments. We are committed to upholding the devolution settlements and to strengthening the Union between all parts of the United Kingdom. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
I am not sure that the Minister is being accorded the respectful attention that his celebrity status within Her Majesty’s Government warrants, and I hope that there can be an improvement on that in the minutes ahead.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle
Yesterday, during the urgent question, the Government were asked how many names of EU citizens were transmitted from this country to other countries after the 7 May deadline. What is the Government’s response to the fact that, under the directive, article 9.4 says that EU citizens shall remain eligible to vote in perpetuity and not have to fill in additional forms?
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Kevin Foster)
The process was exactly the same as for previous European parliamentary elections and I urge the hon. Gentleman to look at the independent review that the Electoral Commission will do following the poll.
EU Parliament Elections: Denial of Votes
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 5 months ago)
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Kevin Foster
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. The reality is that this Government are absolutely committed to implementing the democratic will of the British people expressed in the referendum in 2016, and it is a pity that other parties are not.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
I wrote to every single one of my EU national constituents at my own personal cost to inform them of this voter suppression. I wonder whether the Minister will repay me the cost of the postage, and whether he will also reflect on article 9(4) of the directive he cites, which says that Community voters “shall remain” on the register until they are removed. Getting them all to re-sign the form was therefore a breach of Community rules, and he should learn his law better.
Kevin Foster
I am afraid that this is exactly the same procedure that was adopted in 2014 and in 2009—
Kevin Foster
I am interested to hear what the hon. Gentleman’s comments were about the then Labour Government.
Mr Speaker
Mr Russell-Moyle, you are a person of passionate convictions. You are in some danger of rivalling your hon. Friend, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), who I am inclined to inform audiences across the country and round the world is the noisiest Member of the House. That is a questionable accolade.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 7 months ago)
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Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend is well aware that this House has not yet come to a conclusion as to whether it wishes to call on the Government to be part of the customs union or not. So far everything has been rejected and the Prime Minister is seeking to work across the House, and with colleagues in all parties, to come to an agreement on what the House actually wants.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
Alun Cairns
With the actions that the Government are planning, I am optimistic about our prospects outside the European Union. Having travelled internationally—I was in Japan some weeks ago and in China at the end of last year—I am encouraged by the interest that has been shown in the UK economy, and I believe that Wales and the UK economy will be prosperous outside the European Union.
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman knows, as we have been rolling out universal credit, we have been making changes to it. One of the early measures we took when I became Prime Minister was to change the taper rate. We have since abolished the seven-day wait. We have ensured that we have taken action to make it easier for those who are transferring on to UC in relation to their housing benefit. But, crucially, there is only one way to ensure that we sustainably deal with the issue of poverty—
The Prime Minister
No, and I will come on to that. It is to ensure that we have a strong economy that delivers jobs, and better jobs, and that people can keep more of the money that they earn. What do we know would happen? From behind the right hon. Gentleman, an hon. Member says, from a sedentary position, that the answer is a Labour Government. But a Labour Government would spend £1,000 billion more than has been proposed; a Labour Government would put up taxes; and the Labour party has opposed tax cut after tax cut. This is how you help working people: tax cuts which keep people in work; better jobs; and high employment. That is under the Conservatives.
Votes at 16
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 7 months ago)
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Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)
Thank you very much for calling me to speak, Mr Howarth. It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden). If I may say so at the outset, what a pleasure it is to hear this matter being debated in a responsible and uplifting atmosphere, because there will be young people watching this debate and those are the sorts of qualities that have been in short supply recently.
However, I am afraid that I take a different view on this issue to other hon. Members and I will explain why. One of the points made by the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Jim McMahon) that resonated me was that democracy is enriched by having the widest participation possible. That sounds unanswerable, but it begs a question: what is the widest participation possible? Should 13-year-olds be allowed to participate? I have met some 13-year-olds who speak with great authority on political issues. However, the fact is that we in this House have to make a decision about what the cut-off point for such participation should be.
What should be the underlying principles for that decision? The first principle that we have to grapple with is whether we take the view that it is only adults who should be able to vote, or whether we say that people who are not yet at the age of majority should be able to vote. I take as a starting point the UN convention on the rights of the child, which is absolutely clear. It says that young people have the right to be treated as children, and by the way that means that they should be afforded the rights they should enjoy as children up to the age of 18. That manifests itself in issues such as service on the frontline, and so on and so forth.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Alex Chalk
I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment; let me just develop the point a fraction.
That acknowledgement of the age of majority at 18 is, in fact, reflected across the overwhelming majority of countries that are signatories to the United Nations. We could be forgiven in this place for taking the view that, “Well, actually, the world is moving towards 16,” but that is simply not the case at all. The United States, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain—in all those countries, the voting age is 18. In other parts of the world, things differ; for example, in Singapore the voting age is 21. It is true that some countries are moving in the direction of allowing voting at 16, Austria being one, but they remain overwhelmingly in the minority.
If we want to take the view that adulthood begins at 16, it is critically important that our country does so consistently. Otherwise, we would have the very odd situation where someone would be perceived to be old enough to vote in an election, but when they came out of the polling station they would not be entitled to walk across the road and go into a betting shop to “vote” on the outcome of that election; that would be odd. Alternatively, what about the situation where a 16-year-old, having voted in a general election, would not be entitled to sit on a jury to decide whether or not one of their peers was guilty of a serious crime, such as murder, manslaughter or rape?
My final point about inconsistency is that under the proposals, someone might be old enough to vote but not mature enough—so the law says—to use a tanning booth or buy fireworks. I am not saying for a second that there is not a legitimate argument to be had, but I think the electorate would find it extremely curious if we were to say that a person has the maturity to decide who should be the Government of a country that spends collectively £842 billion every year, yet does not have the maturity to decide to use a tanning booth.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
As we have heard, 16 and 17-year-olds are knowledgeable and passionate about the world around them. Participation in free elections is a fundamental right. Despite what the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk) says, it is a right enshrined in the convention on the rights of the child, which states that children have the right to participate in decisions about their lives and that it should be age-appropriate. Of course a three-year-old is different from a 16-year-old, but even the convention acknowledges that when young people—or “children”, if he insists on using that word—have capacity, they should have recourse to democratic participation. He was therefore right that we should heed UN and international agreements.
The hon. Gentleman also mentioned countries that we should follow: Germany, Italy and so on. Germany, of course, has votes at 16 in its local elections. Italy does not allow people to vote for the Senate until they are 25, and it is even older for certain other roles, such as the presidency. If we are to benchmark from other countries, we will get into a worrisome position. This House should lead and not simply follow. It should take a moral stance and not just say, “What is the lowest common denominator?”
We can look at best practice around the world and in Britain, and at how young people participate. Often, the debate focuses on whether young people have the right capacity and on the group of young people who might not know. Let us talk about the 600-odd members of the Youth Parliament and the 85% of schools with school councils, where young people participate.
I also want to touch on the importance of democratic rights coming first. We should first engage in voting and then enable the other rights and responsibilities and age limits to come in. Eighteen is the worst age to start voting: people leave home and live a chaotic life. Starting earlier means that people will continue to vote for the rest of their lives. If someone votes in their first election, they are likely to vote continuously throughout their lives. An 18-year-old who does not vote is likely to be a 50-year-old who does not vote. A 16-year-old who votes together with the family is likely to be a 50-year-old who votes, and I want to increase voting for all.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
I welcome the action that Essex County Council has taken in relation to new homes and I welcome its bid to the housing infrastructure fund. We have made that money available in the housing infrastructure fund because we understand the importance of infrastructure for new housing developments. We recognise the need for additional affordable housing in the south-east. Of course the Department for Transport will look very carefully at the bid for the second railway station that my hon. Friend has referred to, but I am pleased to be able to say that we are only able to do this because this is a Government who are putting record levels of money into capital investment in our country.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
The Prime Minister
I am very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with the details of the guidance that is given to schools on LGBT education and teaching. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities has been at great pains to ensure, working with the Department for Education, that appropriate guidance is given to schools, and I will write to the hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.] I recognise the issue that he has raised, and I will write to him with the details of the guidance, because it is very clear about what is appropriate.
Exiting the European Union
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(5 years, 11 months ago)
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Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
Last year the Prime Minister called an election, because she understood clearly that in democracies we regularly go back to the people and have a vote. After losing three votes in Parliament last week, she seems to have gone a bit cold on democracy. She does not want a people’s vote, but now she does not even want votes in the House of Commons. When will we get to vote? What date will the Prime Minister set for a vote? I have no trust in this Prime Minister, and I do not think the country does either.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer I gave earlier.
October EU Council
Lloyd Russell-Moyle Excerpts(6 years, 1 month ago)
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The Prime Minister
We are talking about coming to an endpoint in the negotiations, agreeing a withdrawal agreement and the future relationship, and then bringing that agreed deal back for this House to vote on.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
The Prime Minister is keen to avoid a permanent customs union and single market arrangement, despite some Brexiteers promising the exact same benefits. If she is unable to achieve the exact same benefits, is it time to let the people take back control either through a general election or a third referendum—after 1975 and 2016—on this issue?