Ukrainian Refugees: Homelessness

Debate between Jim Shannon and Bob Blackman

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I am slightly constrained by the subject of the debate, as she knows. However, I take the issue of Afghan refugees very seriously indeed; some 11,000 are still in hotels in this country and without a proper place to live. I take the point, but Mr Deputy Speaker is looking at me as if to say, “Concentrate on Ukraine, not other refugees.”

I declare my interest as co-chairman of the all-party parliamentary group for ending homelessness. My co-chair, the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi), is in her place. We have held meetings with Ukrainian refugees, and it has become profusely clear to us that, far too often, the breakdown of the Government schemes is causing a new level of hardship for refugees. The Select Committee on Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, on which I have the honour of sitting, has also done work on this issue.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate. He brings many debates to this Chamber and Westminster Hall, and I always support them—or by and large support them; there are one or two things on which we disagree.

Is the hon. Gentleman, like me and my Strangford constituents, amazed and sometimes overcome by people’s generosity? I think of two people, Donald and Jacqueline Fleming, who have worked in Ukraine for more than 30 years and who provided homes for Ukrainian people in Northern Ireland. Not only that, but the church groups in my constituency have also reached out with a generosity that never fails to amaze me. Whenever we see such generosity, goodness and kindness coming through, does the hon. Gentleman, like me, feel that this great nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has many great people who offer so much to people when they need it most?

[Bob Blackman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. He shares many of the views I have on homelessness and how to assist people. As I have said, I think we are all greatly pleased that the people of the UK offer assistance to people fleeing violence, and we will always do so, as a caring nation. In particular, I applaud those who provide additional help that is way above and beyond the call of duty.

There are a number of grave concerns about the increasing reports of Ukrainian refugees experiencing a breakdown of living arrangements, facing gaps in support, and falling into homelessness or destitution during this cost of living crisis, which we all know is affecting so many of our constituents.

London Zoo Lease

Debate between Jim Shannon and Bob Blackman

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of the lease for London Zoo.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Dame Caroline, in this debate on extending the lease for London Zoo. I am pleased to see colleagues, including the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon)—no doubt to talk about Londonderry’s zoo, but unfortunately it is London Zoo that we will be talking about—and the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck) and my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken), both of whom have a direct interest. I am also pleased to see the hon. Member for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock), speaking for the Opposition, and my hon. Friend the Minister. I look forward to hearing their contributions.

London Zoo has been a staple tourist attraction since it opened to the general public in 1847—of course, none of us was around at the time. For centuries, tourists have flocked to the 36-acre site in Regent’s Park to get a closer look at some of the world’s most exotic creatures in the oldest scientific zoo in the world. Today, 176 years later, London Zoo continues to be one of London’s most popular attractions, despite covid, welcoming more than 1 million visitors a year, including 80,000 schoolchildren. For many, such a visit provides a unique experience and a unique opportunity to see up close some of the 20,000 animals to which London Zoo is home and to learn more about unique species and species at risk of extinction in the wild.

I am sure Members here today would agree that London Zoo is a childhood memory for many of us, and I vividly remember my first visit—the excitement of seeing in the flesh those huge animals that had previously been confined to the television, which in my case was a black and white. Additionally, over the years, some of London Zoo’s most notable residents are said to have further influenced our childhoods: the likes of Winnie-the-Pooh and Dumbo the elephant originated from the animals of London Zoo.

Recently, I was lucky enough to be welcomed back to London Zoo by Matthew Gould, Vicky Godwin and the team, and I am pleased they are here for today’s debate. Whatever someone’s age, London Zoo is a fantastic day out, and even on a cold January morning, the array of diverse species and educational areas provides a fantastic outing.

London Zoo is run by ZSL—the Zoological Society of London—which is an international conservation society established under royal charter in 1826. The charity is driven by science, and there are 140 scientists working on site to protect species, restore ecosystems, collaborate with communities around the world and inspire positive change for biodiversity. The work they carry out across the globe is led by evidence, and they produce the hugely beneficial data for the Living Planet Index, which is the world’s leading dataset on global wildlife.

London Zoo provides a huge number of benefits, both for local communities and for the animal kingdom at large. Each year, tourists from London, the wider United Kingdom and across the globe visit the zoo. That contributes to the funding for the zoo, but also to the wider United Kingdom economy, as visitors are much more likely to spend money in the surrounding areas, particularly as the zoo is only a stone’s throw from some of London’s many cultural hotspots. Each year, the zoo is responsible for contributing a huge sum—more than £24 million—to the local economy.

Community outreach projects are instrumental within the philosophy of the zoo. On my recent visit, I was impressed by the new garden area, where volunteers with complex needs can spend the day gardening and visiting the animals for much-needed respite and wellbeing. I know that you, Dame Caroline, take a particular interest in that area.

The zoo has also recently implemented a community access scheme to enable those on income support and other benefits to visit for as little as £3. During February half-term alone, more than 50,000 visits were facilitated through that operation. It is essential that everyone, regardless of where they live, has access to nature and outdoor space. I am pleased, therefore, that ZSL is committed to providing access for those who need the extra help, so that no one is left out.

Further, the educational offerings provide a critical supplement to classroom working for many children. Workshops are tailored to cater for all age groups and learning needs, educating children on hugely important topics, including wildlife, conservation, climate change and the impacts of pollution.

The zoo’s research has perhaps benefited animals the most, shaping the future of many previously endangered species. Many animals at risk of extinction have participated in the zoo’s breeding programmes, to ensure that they are saved for future generations. In 2021-22 alone, more than £17.4 million was spent on conservation science and field conservation programmes, with £38.5 million spent on conservation animal care, breeding programmes and conservation translocations. I am pleased that the zoo will, in the coming months, be returning the previously endangered Guam kingfisher into the wild.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing forward this debate. It is entitled “London Zoo Lease”, but we have Belfast Zoo in Northern Ireland, which is doing similar work, with conservation of endangered species at the forefront. It is important that all zoos across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland work together, whether that be London, Belfast or other zoos.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, to ensure that zoos are safe and enable animals to have a good quality of life—today’s zoos are different today from those we had when I was a wee boy, which was not yesterday—improvements must be made regularly, and that needs investment. That is easier to secure when there is long-term potential, rather than an uncertain future. Having the longer lease and the opportunity to expand will be to the advantage of London Zoo, but I believe it will also be to the advantage of all zoos across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Bob Blackman]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention, which goes to the nub of the issue that I am about to raise. ZSL and Whipsnade Zoo bring animals into the wild in a much more open setting, for them to run free and enjoy the benefits of a much larger area. He is right that zoos in this day and age do not confine animals to small cages, and there is the opportunity for animals to have a much wider spread. It is so important to get investment in zoos and to enable them to operate in such a fashion.

I called this debate because the Crown Estate Act 1961, which we have all no doubt studied in great detail, currently governs the lease of ZSL’s Regent’s Park site. The Act caps the lease at a maximum of 60 years, presenting a number of difficulties, which I will come to shortly. Through this debate and a subsequent change in the law, we hope to extend that maximum lease tenure to 150 years—a 90-year increase. This is not a new ask. Fairly recently, in 2018, a similar Bill was introduced to extend the lease for Kew Gardens, and that is now on the statute books.

At present, with only 60 years on the leasehold, there is a significant impact on the zoo’s ability to raise funds, create new partnerships, expand support programmes for the local community and invest substantially in regeneration of the existing site. What needs to be understood is that many of the buildings on the site are listed. ZSL is not suggesting that it wants to remove those listed buildings; it wants to regenerate them and make them fit for purpose in the current, modern environment.

The zoo’s extremely high running costs, including rising energy bills, of which we are all aware, cannot be compromised on, because it has to sustain climates appropriate for the animals and birdlife in the zoo. Given the zoo’s stature as an organisation—it receives no Government grant aid at all—it is vital that it is able to secure as much funding as possible and to plan for the future. To continue with the 60-year lease would make the zoo financially impossible to sustain and would bring us to a crisis point. I strongly suggest that we should not get to that position.

In 1826, when the zoo was founded, the average life expectancy in this country peaked at about 40. Thus, a 60-year lease was significantly longer than the average life expectancy, and was therefore a reasonable and respectable length. Thankfully, with the advancements in modern science and a better understanding of health and evolution, our average life expectancy has soared, and is now more than double that in the Victorian times, at an average of about 80 years. That makes a 60-year lease redundant. Thus, to tackle the complex challenges facing global wildlife, it is simply not long enough.

The knock-on effects of extending the lease will no doubt transform the site, not only for visitors but for the scientists who do such a brilliant job in the zoo. More certainty on the lease length would enable ZSL to find global investment partners willing to fund the state-of-the-art laboratories and drastically improve the current buildings that act as the animals’ habitat.

There are 140 scientists currently working in dilapidated buildings, which is considerably inhibiting their research. Unsurprisingly, they want modern conditions in which to practise and do their research. Providing new, fully equipped areas where they can conduct those vital studies would benefit not only the public but the animals themselves and other institutions, through the Living Planet Index. Further, London Zoo currently houses 16 species that are extinct in the wild and more than 100 seriously endangered species. Expanding those numbers through space, research and developed understanding, brought about by the leasehold, would prevent us from losing any more of those wonderful creatures.

Normally, when I give speeches in this place, I have a long list of questions for the Minister, but my simple ask today is for her to enable the lease to be extended to 150 years, either by supporting my excellent private Member’s Bill on 24 March or by amending another piece of legislation. When she responds, if she wants to make a short speech and just say yes, that would shorten these proceedings quite considerably.

As I come to the end of my speech and allow other Members to take to the Floor with their insightful comments, I remind colleagues of the important contributions that London Zoo and ZSL have made over the past 200 years. The iconic naturalist, Charles Darwin, conducted many of his studies at the site. Thus, it can be assumed that, without London Zoo’s existence, we would not have a proper understanding of the theory of evolution. Another significant character to come out of the zoo, I am told, is my hon. Friend the Member for North Herefordshire (Sir Bill Wiggin). I am sure that, without his zoological background, his adept manner of dealing with some of the more animal-like behaviour in Parliament would have been very different. Of course, he is now the Chairman of the Committee of Selection, so he has to deal with us all appropriately.

I leave Members with a final thought from the legendary Sir David Attenborough, highlighting further the need for the Crown Estate Act 1961 to be amended to enable a lease extension up to 150 years to ensure the continuation of this renowned establishment:

“ZSL’s work is vital in driving forward a vision of a world where wildlife thrives…from tiny dart frogs to majestic tigers and everything in between.”

Heart and Circulatory Diseases (Covid-19)

Debate between Jim Shannon and Bob Blackman

Thursday 23rd June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the impact of the covid-19 pandemic on people with heart and circulatory diseases.

May I say how pleased I am to have this debate in the main Chamber? It was originally earmarked for Westminster Hall, where most of my debates are—indeed, probably all of them—but on this occasion I have kindly been elevated to the main Chamber, and I am greatly humbled to have this opportunity. I spoke to Mr Speaker’s Office this morning to thank the staff for that. I understand the reasons for it, but the reasons do not matter: we are here, and that is the important thing. I am very pleased to be able to participate in this debate.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for taking on the opportunity to have a debate in this Chamber; as he well knows, had he not been so flexible the House would be rising now. He has enabled the House to continue, and on behalf of the Backbench Business Committee I thank him. Of course, his season ticket is honourably renewed.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kindness. The Backbench Business Committee is kind to everyone who applies for a debate, so I am always very pleased to do so, and on a regular basis. It will not be too long before I am back looking for more debates.

On this debate, I put on the record my thanks to the Committee. I am pleased to see that Members from across the House are involved, although I am mindful that today right hon. and hon. Members have many other engagements that mean they are unable to be here, even though the debate is in the main Chamber.

It is just over two years since the start of the lockdowns, and a little more since the pandemic first arrived. Life changed for everyone—I do not think there is anyone in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland who did not have a life-changing moment—and for some of us it may never be the same as it was. It will never be the same for those who have lost loved ones; that is very real for every one of us. Some of the changes that took place due to the pandemic and covid-19 were cosmetic, but others have been life changing, and it is those changes that we need to address.

I want to say a massive thank you to all the doctors, nurses, auxiliary staff and cleaning staff—there are so many to name—who have been outstanding. There is nobody in this House who does not know some of them, has not spoken to them and does not also want to put that on the record as well. I thank them at the beginning of this debate.

During lockdown, barriers and obstacles to providing care for heart patients and all patients rocketed. I know that happened across all health departments, but in particular I thank the British Heart Foundation and the Stroke Association for all the information, detail and evidence they sent to me and others for the debate. We are very pleased to have that.

Some of those efforts by doctors were heroic; I do not use that word often, but on this occasion it is a word that aptly describes their efforts. Despite those heroic efforts of doctors, nurses and other key workers in our health systems, however, we have seen cardiovascular services disrupted so greatly that people are still feeling the effects today.

I am beyond thankful for every NHS staff member who went ahead with emergency surgeries. The reality of life for elected representatives is that we do not get many people coming and saying, “Thank you very much for that.” We get the complaints, but that is what we do. We are a conduit for their complaints and concerns. Some of the people were waiting for emergency surgery were not sure whether they would pay a price for that, so again for that I sincerely say a big thank you.

We are all aware of the waiting lists, reduced access to primary care and the pressures on urgent and emergency care. They all have real consequences for people’s health. That is why hon. Members pushed for this debate and why we are so pleased to have the opportunity to hold it today in the main Chamber. I feel incredibly privileged, honoured and humbled to be able to present this case—not for me, because I am not important, but on behalf of our constituents who have experienced hardship because of those things.

Those problems have also had real consequences for families’ lives, their relationships and the happiness of their families. Very often, the issues for those who were ill reflected back on the families, who were under incredible pressure to deal with circumstances that would be difficult to deal with normally but that, with covid-19 and the pandemic, escalated even more. There are 11,000 people living with heart or circulatory diseases in my constituency. I know the Minister does not have responsibility for Northern Ireland, but I will provide examples from Northern Ireland that are relevant across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. There are 2,000 stroke survivors and 13,000 people who have been diagnosed with high blood pressure.

Long waits, difficulty accessing routine medical services and long ambulance response times make life more difficult for the 7.6 million people living with heart and circulatory diseases in the UK. I mention those issues not as a criticism, but to highlight them and raise awareness. Ambulance response times in many parts of the United Kingdom, including in my own constituency, have been difficult, as have been the waiting times outside accident and emergency departments, with ambulances in place. That is happening not just in Northern Ireland but elsewhere, as I am sure other hon. Members will confirm.

Someone in the UK dies from a heart or circulatory disease every three minutes. This debate has been going for six minutes, so that means two people will have died from heart disease since it began. By the time the debate is over—it is a stark headline, unfortunately—as many as 20 people will have passed away. That statistic reminds us of the fickleness of life. It also reminds us of what this debate is about and why we are here. Someone is admitted to hospital due to a stroke every five minutes. Indeed, someone will have been admitted to hospital since this debate began. Two thirds of patients leave hospital with a disability. Stroke as a standalone condition costs the UK economy £26 billion annually, yet it is largely preventable and recoverable.

I look forward very much to hearing the response to the debate from the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the hon. Member for Erewash (Maggie Throup). I know she is very committed to her job and has a deep interest in it, so I look forward to what she has to say in response to the questions we will ask her today. I also look forward to hearing from the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), who is a good friend and with whom I seem to be in debates all the time. If we were not in the Chamber today, we would be in Westminster Hall.

Northern Ireland Chest, Heart and Stroke highlights that there were 15,758 recorded deaths in 2019. That is some figure and it is worrying. The top three causes were cancer, circulatory diseases and respiratory diseases; together, those accounted for 64.3% of all deaths in Northern Ireland. That figure reminds us of just how fickle life is and that we are just a breath away from passing from this world to the next. They have been the three leading causes of deaths since 2012. Deaths due to chest, heart and stroke conditions, when combined, are the No. 1 cause of death, at 36%. As I said earlier, that reminds us why this debate is so vital and why we look to the Minister for a response that can help us, encourage us and give us some hope for the future.

These are some of the most prevalent, serious and life-altering conditions that anyone could have the misfortune to suffer from. They touch everyone’s lives, be they in Northern Ireland, where my Strangford constituency is, Scotland or Wales—or England, with whose health matters this House is primarily concerned. I also very much look forward to hearing from—I apologise; I should have said it earlier—the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) on behalf of the SNP. She has a deep interest in health, too, and I look forward very much to her contribution.

Every one of us has a neighbour, a friend or a loved one who has problems with their heart. Those problems do not halt at any border. They do not even, dare I say it—rather mischievously, perhaps—stop at the Irish sea border, which is able to prevent most things from crossing over. What prevents them from getting the care they need? The most obvious issue is undoubtedly waiting lists, which are at record levels. One of the questions I would like to ask the Minister—I always ask such questions constructively; that is my way of doing things—is: what is being done to reduce waiting lists and to provide some hope? According to NHS England, only this month the queue for NHS care stood at 6.5 million, the highest number on record ever. The number of patients waiting more than a year to be seen has increased to 323,000, which is a massive number. These are record levels as the health sector recovers from the impact of the pandemic.

Although the pandemic has hugely affected waiting lists, the issue predates the pandemic. At the start of 2020, around 30,000 people were waiting more than 18 weeks for cardiac care. This problem was not caused by covid, but it was exacerbated and worsened by covid. If it was bad before, it is much worse now.

The pandemic has had a seismic effect. In April 2022, two months ago, 170 times more people in England were waiting more than a year for heart procedures than in February 2020. I look for an indication of how we can reduce that number, and I know there is a strategy. I am putting this constructively, because I believe there are ways to do it, and the hon. Members for Denton and Reddish and for Motherwell and Wishaw, other Members and I are keen to hear what they are. Waiting lists for cardiac care have also hit record levels, rising to 319,000 people. In Northern Ireland there are 31 times as many people waiting more than six months for cardiac surgery compared with the end of 2019.

And it is not only life-saving surgery, as some of this surgery is about people’s quality of life. Waiting times for echocardiograms, a kind of heart ultrasound used to diagnose a range of conditions, have risen, too. More than 170,000 patients were waiting for an echocardiogram at the end of April 2022, with 44.6% of them—almost half—waiting more than six weeks. That is a 32% increase on the year before. The covid-19 pandemic has increased those numbers, and I am not blaming anyone for that, but we need to address these issues, both as a Government and collectively, in a way that gives succour and support to our constituents.

In Northern Ireland, the number of people waiting more than six months for a cardiac investigation or treatment reached a new record in March 2022. That is the responsibility of Robin Swann, the Health Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and I know he has taken steps to try to address it, but this is a general debate about how we address heart and circulatory diseases across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland following covid-19.

Nearly three quarters of people in Northern Ireland waiting for an echocardiogram have waited longer than the recommended clinical maximum. A number of worried, heartbroken family members have come to my office to say that covid is killing their loved ones, even though they did not have covid themselves. The delays were and continue to be a threat to life. Covid-19 does not seem to result in the number of hospital cases that it once did, which is good news.

Although an echocardiogram is not open-heart surgery, delays still cause increased anxiety for patients and delay the treatment they need. Taken as a whole, cancelled operations risk a rise in avoidable deaths and disability, and they cause anxiety and put physical pressure on people with heart problems.

What can we do about this? The British Heart Foundation is watching this debate, and I thank it for giving me most of my information. I also have a staff member who is qualified in this, and she has given me some information, too. I am proud to work with the British Heart Foundation, which has welcomed the additional funding for the NHS and the announcement that 95% of patients who need diagnostic tests will receive them within six weeks by 2025. It is good news that we have a target but, with respect, that target is a few years away. We need to consider how we address the situation over the intervening three years. The foundation has also pushed for an accompanying Government strategy for cardiovascular disease to take us beyond recovery and address the problems that existed before the pandemic.

With all that in mind, we need to think about how we can do better and support those who need help today. The NHS long-term plan identifies cardiovascular disease as

“the single biggest area where the NHS can save lives over the next 10 years.”

If there is one issue I would love us to tackle, it is how we can save lives. I am ever mindful of the statistic I cited earlier that every three minutes someone dies as a result of heart problems. If we can save lives, that is what we want to be doing. We know that the NHS is doing all it can to deliver cardiovascular services, but without a properly funded cardiovascular disease strategy, it cannot meet its targets and deliver adequate care. When will a strategy be put in place to address the issues in the short term?

What else would such a strategy address? Cardiovascular diseases have many and varied impacts on patients, who need different forms of care as a result. Access to primary care is integral to the identification and management of heart conditions. When people cannot access primary care, opportunities to prevent heart attacks and strokes are lost, and more problems are caused for those who are already under pressure. How do we address that issue?

A 2021 survey of 3,000 heart patients found that 12% had a routine medication or condition review cancelled or rescheduled in the first year of the pandemic. I understand that the pandemic was not the Government’s fault; the Government are to be complimented and thanked for how they responded to it, because we are all beneficiaries of the vaccination programme and it is probably why some of us are alive today. However, the cancellation or rescheduling of routine medication or condition reviews explains the longer waiting lists. Four patients in 10 have had appointments cancelled or rescheduled more than once. I know people back home who have actually fasted for an operation and then been told that it would not go ahead, which has caused anxiety and worry.

Health Foundation analysis shows that 31 million fewer primary care appointments were booked between April 2020 and March 2021 than in the previous 12 months. The pandemic has also had an impact on how patients with heart and circulatory disease interact with primary care. Some people say that there are lies, damned lies and statistics, but statistics prove a point: there were 5 million fewer face-to-face GP appointments in 2020 and in 2021 than in 2019. We understand the reasons why, but we have had a lot of debates in this Chamber and in Westminster Hall about GP appointments, and there is not one of us who would not wish for the number of appointments that we once had. My constituents tell me that, and I am anxious and keen for appointments to return.

Many people welcome the flexibility and safety that remote appointments bring, but they can mean that healthcare professionals lose the opportunity to collect information that they usually gain through physical examination. Constituents have told me that their ailments and problems would be better assessed physically. The quicker we move back to physical assessments, the better. Someone cannot really be diagnosed at the other end of a Zoom call; they can say what their issues are, and by and large the doctor may get a fair idea, but in many cases it takes a physical examination. The situation is no one’s fault, but it may lead to a delayed or even missed diagnosis of a condition such as high blood pressure. I take a Losartan tablet for my blood pressure every day; I was told by my doctor not to worry about it, but after he told me I would have to take it every day, he said, “By the way, you can’t stop it.” At that stage, I realised that it is necessary to keep me on the straight and narrow and keep me breathing, so perhaps in a small way I understand the need to control blood pressure.

We do not know for sure how many missed diagnoses there have been but we do know that the NHS issued 470,000 fewer prescriptions for preventive cardiovascular drugs between March and October 2020 than in the same period of the previous year. The Institute for Public Policy Research forecasts that if those missing people with high-risk cardiovascular conditions do not commence treatment there will be an additional 12,000 heart attacks and strokes in the next five years. I ask the Minister what is being done to find those who have not been prescribed these preventive drugs over the last period of time, mindful that the unfortunate end result of that is more heart attacks.

This is a ticking time bomb, and we need to defuse it if we are to meet NHS long-term plan aspirations to prevent 150,000 heart attacks, strokes and dementia cases by 2028-29 and, more importantly, if we are to be able to look those families in the face. Behind every person who dies of a heart attack there is a grieving family; we know that probably personally and certainly from constituent cases. As the Good Book says, we have threescore years and 10; we might get less than that or we might get more, but one thing we do know is that our time will pass. We must address the issue of preventing heart attacks, strokes and dementia.

At least half of the 15 million adults in the UK who have high blood pressure are undiagnosed. We all need a bit of stress; it is part of life, and I thrive on a bit of stress, but we can only take so much and it is important to find the right balance. Many of those with high blood pressure are not receiving effective treatment. It is vital to find people early and support them to manage cardiovascular risk factors such as atrial fibrillation. The Automated External Defibrillators (Public Access) Bill was introduced in the House not long ago, with support from all parties; I hope the Government will support its progress so its measures can be introduced in health and education settings. Finding the people with conditions early is vital; we must try to help people manage conditions such as raised cholesterol and hypertension so they can longer and healthier lives.

However, we cannot do that if we do not know who they are, which shows that data is important; it comes up in almost every health debate I participate in. To be fair, the Government and the Minister understand this, as data helps to focus on the right strategy and develop it in a constructive way based on evidence. I ask the Minister to put on the record where we currently are in relation to the collection of data, as it will point the way forward.

Some patients do not need to be found, however, as they or a loved one call 999 because of a medical emergency. For cardiovascular conditions, that normally means they have had a heart attack or stroke. A fast response that gets the right person to the right hospital department at the right time in an ambulance can be the difference between life and death. The newspapers often present examples of ambulances not arriving in time for whatever reason and people passing away. Unfortunately, in England the average response time in May for a category 2 emergency such as a heart attack or stroke was almost 40 minutes; we must do better. The target is 18 minutes; it is not being met.

I did not manage to source the corresponding data for Northern Ireland, but I know personally of one 70-year-old lady who had called believing her husband was having a stroke. She was told to give him an aspirin to chew and that the ambulance was delayed. She was then told in another phone call, which was fairly frantic, that if possible she should bring him herself to hospital, so she dragged him to the car—he is a fairly big man—and arrived at the hospital crying and begging passers-by to help. This man was diagnosed with some form of hernia which presented like a heart attack, and I thank God for that because he could have died waiting on the ambulance and then waiting on his elderly wife to trail him to a car and on to a hospital; that is simply not good enough.

Owing to the scale of current ambulance and A&E delays, we will see more disability and deaths from heart and circulatory disease that could otherwise have been avoided, but if we can avoid them—if we can do things better—the debate will have achieved its goal. This is happening despite NHS workers and paramedics going above and beyond the call of duty to help those in need. I used the word “heroic” earlier, and I use it again now. It is not a word that is taken out of context when I apply it to those workers. Ambulance delays are the symptom of a system that is under immense pressure at every level. Problems in one part of the NHS affect other parts. Problems with accessing primary care lead to more emergencies, which means that, again, there is a greater demand for ambulances.

Christians and Religious Minorities: India

Debate between Jim Shannon and Bob Blackman

Thursday 24th February 2022 Westminster Hall

[Bob Blackman]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for his intervention. He rightly refers to investments that have been made, not only by the UK but by the various different religious groups across India.

We should also remember that India has state government as well as federal government, and therefore the state government should make decisions as well as the national Government. Indeed, independent democratic institutions, such as the National Commission for Minorities, the National Human Rights Commission of India and the Ministry of Minority Affairs, safeguard those rights. National Minorities Rights Day is observed in India every year on 18 December. Given that we are talking about what should happen in India, perhaps we might think about having a national rights day in this country. India has one already, so let us learn the lesson from India and give minorities that opportunity.

We should equally look at the growth of the different minority religions’ populations. India is an incredibly diverse country; there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan and Bangladesh combined. We should remember that minority religion is growing demographically, up from 15% in 1947 to around 20% in 2011. That is completely unlike the trend in our country. With over 207 million followers of Islam, India has the second largest population of Muslims in the world. Indeed, that is 10% of the world’s Muslim population. Not only is that number growing, but it is expected that by 2050 India will have the largest Muslim population in the world, overtaking Indonesia.

Of the 28 states, four—Meghalaya, Arunachal Pradesh, Mizoram, and Nagaland—have a Christian majority. I hope that they have enlightened policies and enable other minority religions to prosper and grow. Kerala and Tamil Nadu have the largest section of Christian population anywhere in India. I know the hon. Member for Strangford has not had the opportunity to do so yet, but I invite him to come with me on a visit to India and we can see that first hand. Kerala is the state that is visited most by people from the UK, and there not only the churches but the synagogues are preserved. It was the centre of the Jewish population in India before Israel came into existence, and, after that, many of those people chose to migrate to Israel from their ancestral home. These circumstances demonstrate that clearly not only is there an opportunity but there are centres of Christianity in India.

Jammu and Kashmir has a Muslim majority and Ladakh has a Buddhist majority, so it is not fair to say that India is not a diverse country. That can only be possible when minorities feel safe, secure and nurtured. Across the board, minorities have been the torchbearers of India’s scientific and economic success and leadership. From Indian states in the north-east and regions in the north where minority religions form the majority, minorities’ visibility, success and leadership in all spheres of human activity—from the civil services to political representation and civil society, and from media to corporate houses—is a true reflection of the Indian people’s genuine commitment to their age-old tradition.

In any thriving democracy there are bound to be questions, debates and challenges from time to time. There might have been—and have been—isolated cases and reports of minorities facing discrimination. However, there are independent institutions to address them, such as the National Commission for Minorities, and others that I have mentioned, as well as an independent judiciary. Those reports and cases need to be reflected on in the context that there are 200 million religious minority members. The incidents are very rare, relative to the population size.

We should also consider the concerns that have been expressed to me by many people of Indian origin about the activities of those who seek to convert people from one religion to another. We have to be very cautious about that approach. I agree that it is the fundamental human right of an individual to choose their religion. However, it is not reasonable—it is unacceptable—for people to be forced to convert against their will, and against their family’s will as well.

[Jim Shannon]

Of course, if the individual is of age, he or she will be able to make their own decision about which religious viewpoint they wish to pursue or follow. May I say gently to the hon. Gentleman—we are good friends, and I am always very mindful of that fact—that Open Doors, whose event the right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) chairs every year, said in its report that India was 31st on the list in 2013 and is 10th today, meaning that it went up the ladder of where religious incidents are recorded? That shows that there is more persecution, so how does the hon. Gentleman equate those facts? Whenever persecution is rising in India, the number of incidents rises, and he cannot ignore that.

[Bob Blackman]

Clearly there are tensions, and I would never say that any attacks on individuals because of their religion are acceptable. What I would say, however, is that when a country has a growing population with growing opportunities for employment, wealth and getting people out of poverty, there are bound to be clashes. There are often clashes in India over religious sites, and there is fault on all sides in that respect. In many cases, the clashes occur where there has historically been a temple when a mosque or a church has been erected on that site, or the other way around. That leads to fundamental clashes between religions. It is up to the Government of India and the forces of India to ensure peace and harmony between people, and it is up to the religious leaders of the religions in India to encourage and promote that harmony as well.

I say to the hon. Member for Strangford gently that, having had the opportunity to visit many of these parts of the world and to see at first hand the position in India, I would argue strongly against the position he has taken. Yes, there are problems—there will be problems all over the world—but they are very rare relative to the size of the population and the number of people who celebrate their religions in peace and harmony.

India is a robust pluralistic democracy where the aim is harmonious co-existence of people of all religions, cultures and ethnicities across the length and breadth of the country. That is a fundamental characteristic of the people—certainly in my visits, I have always experienced that. Safeguarding and celebrating India’s unity and diversity is central to the Indian Government’s social and political ethos, and is firmly embedded in the constitution of India through inviolable provisions and plays out in spirit in myriad ways. Finally, India’s unique example of protecting and nurturing religious minorities offers important insights for other countries, including this one.

India-UK Trade Negotiations

Debate between Jim Shannon and Bob Blackman

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Westminster Hall

[Bob Blackman]

My hon. Friend is a former Trade Minister who knows such things all too well. Those go hand in hand—it is no good having a free trade agreement if we do nothing with it. Indeed, before we get to the free trade agreement, we have to use the opportunities we have in the diaspora here and all the other opportunities for trade.

There is also a great opportunity in the digital sector. The Government of India aim to have a $1 trillion online economy by 2025. We expect internet penetration in India to hit 50%—or 622 million users—so the free trade agreement represents a huge opportunity for businesses in the UK, such as those in tech, artificial intelligence and cyber-security.

A trade agreement will not only build on our relationship but give young Indians the opportunity to come to this country to study—to get their degrees, master’s degrees and PhDs—and to return to India to use the knowledge that they have gained in friendship with the UK and to expand India’s economy even more. We already have excellent educational co-operation, in particular with our higher education facilities, but I want to see us do better. I want us to get back to the position where the UK is where India chooses to send its young people to for study. We have slipped behind in recent years, and myths have developed about caps on numbers. Those are problems to resolve—we know that—but nevertheless we want to return to the position whereby we are the place of choice.

Indian-owned businesses in the UK employ more than 95,000 people. Some 29,200 are employed in the west midlands alone—at least one west midlands MP, the right hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), is present—with 20,700 in London and 10,700 in Wales. Indian investment alone created 15,000 new jobs in the past three years. That demonstrates our opportunities to expand. Furthermore, India’s import requirements are set to be worth £1.38 trillion in 2035, which gives us an opportunity—if we can reduce the high tariff barriers—to utilise our capability to provide a high level of services and good-quality goods.

The tariffs paid on exports to India total £49 million a year. The tariffs for automotive manufacturers stand at 125%, so a trade agreement would obviously benefit them. In 2019, 9,900 UK businesses exported goods to India, 98% of which were small or medium-sized enterprises. That demonstrates that it is not only big companies but small companies that could gain.

We are a global leader on climate action, and the Government are obviously maintaining our high standards of environmental protection within trade agreements. An agreement with India could represent a huge opportunity for our world-leading renewable energy industry. The Government of India recognise the need to transition towards renewable gas and plan to install 175 GW of renewable energy capacity by the end of this year. Our expertise can help them to achieve that and to remove their dependence on coal and other fossil fuels. Although we already have a productive trading relationship, it would also help us to bounce back from the pandemic and to invigorate trade and investment services.

The reality is that our negotiation stance needs to be clear and above board, and we need to be clear that India was the UK’s 15th largest trading partner in 2020. As I have said, trade was worth £23.3 billion and our exports worth £8.5 billion in 2019. That makes India the 10th largest export destination for the UK. Outside of the EU, that clearly provides us with a huge opportunity. Imports were worth £14.8 billion in 2019, which was 2.1% of our imports, making India the UK’s fifth single largest import supplier. India is now the fifth largest economy in the world and the third biggest investor in the UK. We have slipped down the list on investment in India, and we need to put that right as we go forward. We were the third biggest investor in India, but I think we are now fifth or perhaps even sixth. India is the second most populous country in the world, with 1.38 billion people back in 2020, which amounts to 18% of the world’s population. I am throwing out a lot of stats, because we need to understand the huge benefit that can result from having a free trade agreement with India.

Obviously, under covid, both our economy and India’s economy contracted, but as they expand we will have an opportunity to get involved in further investment in India. At the moment, India is projected to overtake Germany and become the world’s fourth largest economy by 2030, and it could leapfrog Japan to become the third largest by 2050. The opportunity there is huge, and India has obviously been the engine of global growth over recent years, with its economy growing by 7% a year. If we could grow our economy by 7%,- wouldn’t we bite people’s hands off to achieve it? Clearly, that is going to be the position. I have mentioned India’s middle-class market, which is growing fast and which is a huge opportunity for us overall.

With a free trade agreement with India, we can obviously support jobs across the UK. If our exports to India grow, we can grow our businesses, and SMEs will grow as a direct result. In 2019, something like 1,000 Indian-owned local business units were operating in the UK, so clearly the opportunities are there and the demand for imported goods and services will grow as we use the living bridge between the United Kingdom and India.

Obviously, the success of exports to India will depend on how well the world economy goes and how our relationship grows with it. As I understand it, the second round of negotiations is due to take place between 7 March and 18 March, with a shared ambition to conclude negotiations by the end of this year. I wish those negotiations well, and I hope the Minister will be able to update us on the position when he responds to the debate.

Looking at the various parts of our economy, there are huge benefits right across the UK to having a trade agreement with India. One of our hugest exports is Scotch whisky. That has a huge impact. Those of our Scottish friends who are present—the hon. Members for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry), for Glasgow East (David Linden) and for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes)—know that they will gain as a result of a global Britain free trade agreement. If they were to engage in foolish behaviour and leave the United Kingdom, they would lose that free trade agreement and once again face tariffs of 150%. Indeed, the export of Irish whiskey is a vital part of the Irish economy and will clearly be—

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Northern Irish!

[Bob Blackman]

I have had the opportunity of sampling Irish whiskey on many occasions.