Great British Energy Bill

Earl Russell Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 11th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 37 in this group and to Amendment 1, which has been introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, and to which I have added my name. Before I start, I thank the Minister and his team for the very constructive and helpful discussions that we have had since Committee. We have made good progress and I am very grateful. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, and the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, for their support for my Amendment 37.

The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, has already introduced Amendment 1 with her usual clarity, so I will try not to repeat her too much. As we discussed at some length in Committee, this Bill creates GBE as an entity, but nowhere does it set out what GBE is actually expected to achieve—what its aims or objectives are. As the noble Baroness just pointed out, Clause 3 sets out its “objects”, but we should be completely clear that the objects set out only what the company is allowed to do, not what it is intended to achieve. The only place where the company’s aims will be set out will be in the statement of strategic priorities in Clause 5. However, we have not seen these, even in draft. They will be published sometime in the future and are not subject to meaningful parliamentary scrutiny. They will be laid before Parliament, but there is not even the level of scrutiny that may be applied to a negative statutory instrument. Your Lordships’ Constitution Committee described this as being “disguised legislation”.

It is important that the Bill should include, at least at a high level, some statement as to what GBE is actually intended to achieve. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, should be commended for not trying to score political points with her Amendment 1, which is why I have supported it. I think that she has tried to align the objectives in her amendment with what the Government have said are the goals for GBE, so I hope the Minister will look kindly on it. If not, and if the noble Baroness were to divide the House, I would be minded to support her.

My Amendment 37 covers similar ground to my amendments in a later group. I apologise: I was told at a late stage to degroup them on the advice of the Public Bills Office, for some esoteric reason that I am not sure I fully understand. These amendments all try to inject some much-needed transparency and accountability into the Bill—something that is currently somewhat lacking. The only reporting that GBE must do, as it stands, is the annual report and accounts that it must file in accordance with Section 441 of the Companies Act. We had a lot of discussions on this in Committee and the Minister undertook to write to set out the additional requirements that will apply to GBE as a publicly owned entity. I thank him for his letter, which I think satisfies the first three proposed new paragraphs of my Amendment 37. The element that would still not be covered, as the noble Baroness just pointed out, is the assessment of the extent to which the investments or partnerships entered into by GBE have encouraged additional investment by the private sector.

This is extremely important. If all that GBE does is make investments that would happen anyway in the private sector then that would not be a good use of public money. Indeed, it could actually damage the creation of a thriving market for financing green energy—the well-documented concept of crowding out. There is an important role for GBE, just as there is for the UK Infrastructure Bank, now called the National Wealth Fund, to act as a catalyst to kick-start or accelerate investment in new technologies where the private sector is not yet ready to invest. There is a good precedent for this: it can be very strongly argued that the offshore wind industry, now so successful, would have been much slower to develop without the initial backing of the European Investment Bank, which the UK Infrastructure Bank was designed to replace in this country.

If the Minister will confirm clearly that he would expect GBE to report in its annual report and accounts on the extent to which it achieves additionality then I will be happy not to press Amendment 37.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 17 in this group. This probing amendment seeks further clarity from the Minister on the Government’s commitments to Great British Energy’s budget. It seeks information on the timing of the delivery of the budgets that have been promised and further clarity on Great British Energy’s ability to borrow funds in the future.

I have raised a probing amendment on Report because, as we have heard, this money is still subject to the spending review, and we have seen recent announcements from the Chancellor surrounding growth. For those reasons, we seek clarity that the £8.3 billion up to 2029 is available as promised and will be delivered. We previously saw cuts to Labour’s £28 billion green deal before the election. The key thing—and I hope the Minister will agree—is that there is absolute clarity on these matters; that is needed for securing the £60 billion in private investment. We need clarity and consistency in policy direction, which I hope this Government will maintain.

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[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Earl. He said that he thinks that green energy will lower costs. So far, green energy has actually raised costs. Why should it lower costs in the future?

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. Green energy over time will lower costs. There is an initial hump to get over with investment, but the trouble that we need to address is our increasing and continued dependence on the vast fluctuations in foreign gas markets. We saw what happened with the war in Ukraine, and we saw that the noble Lord’s Government had to invest £40 billion towards subsidising bill payers—money that was invested for no long-term benefit. We must get away from those things and we must have energy security. These are investments in Britain and in reducing our bills, and they are worthwhile doing. It is really important that GB Energy invests in these emerging technologies. That is why I have raised my amendment on GB Energy’s ability to borrow; if GB Energy cannot borrow it will not be able to make these key investments.

Amendment 20, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Offord of Garvel, and the noble Earl, Lord Effingham, is about the annual report and financial assistance provided to GB Energy. We expect this to happen, so do not feel that the amendment is necessary.

We support the spirit of Amendment 37, but expect the Treasury to require all these areas to be reported on. Having reflected on what was said in Committee and the Minister’s response, we expect GB Energy’s reporting requirements to be similar to those of the Crown Estate. It would be useful if the Minister could confirm that.

Amendment 39, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Frost, and supported by the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, is one of the strongest Conservative amendments to be tabled on Report. We have some sympathy with proposed new subsection (1), which is similar to an amendment I moved in Committee. At that stage, it did not win the Minister’s favour—I suspect that that might be the case again today. Where I slightly part company with noble Lord, Lord Frost, is in relation to the annual review for the chair of GB Energy. My view is that an important and good annual review would not be one that was fully made public. To me, that seems a slightly strange request, and may be counterintuitive to the object which he seeks.

I am going to stop there as I have run out of time and there are a lot of amendments in this group.

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

I support Amendment 1, in the name of my noble friend Lady Noakes. I should declare at this point that I live about five miles away from Sizewell B nuclear power station and one that is about to be built, Sizewell C, and less than a mile away from other energy infrastructure that is still going through the planning process.

A lot of my time at the other end was taken up with considering the importance of energy, not only for a long-term sustainable future but the security issues rightly referred to in these objectives. The reason these objectives matter is that this is an unprecedented situation, where we are handing, in effect, a blank cheque to an arm’s-length body. Admittedly, it will have strategies set by the Secretary of State, but, as has been pointed out, there will be absolutely no reference to Parliament in its consideration. That is why the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Frost has attraction, in proposing at least having a direct connection with two Select Committees of the other place and a relationship with the chair of GB Energy. As my noble friend pointed out, these are the reasons that the Government gave us for having this new entity. Therefore, it would make a lot of sense for the Government to accept this amendment directly.

On Amendment 17, where I disagree with the noble Earl, Lord Russell, is that I do not believe we should get into legislation that dictates the amount of taxpayers’ money that will be spent. I have seen that happen before in legislation, and then all of a sudden money starts getting wasted. The whole purpose of this financial vehicle is to de-risk and bring in external private investment. That is a sensible approach, especially given the amount of uncertainty, which I appreciate the Government are trying to address in other ways. Nevertheless, for something such as energy security, a significant amount of investment is going to be required right across not just Great Britain but the United Kingdom, and this is a critical moment for our nation. That is why, while I think there will be money well spent, we should not be dictating a minimum.

The amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Vaux of Harrowden, is really sensible. This company will be in an unusual situation—not unique, but unusual—and the extra information required, particularly in proposed new paragraph (d), is the core essence of why this company is being set up: it is stepping forward to try to get others to do so.

If anything, what has evolved over many years is the need for transparency and understanding. The amount of trust that people have in how their taxpayers’ money gets spent really matters in the contract that Parliament and government have with the electorate—the taxpayer. So, elements such as this will enforce the rationale rather than just necessarily seeing energy bills tick upwards, unfortunately.

So if Amendments 1 and 37 are pressed, I will certainly support them—although, regrettably, not Amendment 17 from the noble Earl, Lord Russell.

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[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 8 relates to Clause 3 and makes it clear that community energy is within scope of the objects of Great British Energy. I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, for his support and for our engagement between Committee and Report.

We had an interesting and somewhat lengthy debate in Committee on the role of community energy. I have always recognised the important role that community energy can have as we strive for clean power and net zero. Following positive discussions across the House, particularly with the noble Earl, Lord Russell, I accepted that the role of community energy could be made explicit in the Bill. That is why this amendment has been tabled. It sets out a clear intention that local and community energy is important for Great British Energy and the Government.

GBE will enhance existing support for community energy. This will be done through partnering with, and providing funding and support to, local and combined authorities, as well as community energy groups. This is very important. To support community energy groups to access funding and to establish themselves in all areas of Great Britain, GBE will provide commercial, technical and project-planning assistance, increasing the capability and capacity to build a pipeline of successful projects in local areas. This has clearly been missing in the current arrangements, where lots of local groups want to develop community energy but find it difficult to access advice and access the pathway to finance. GBE has a really important role to play here. I beg to move.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I support government Amendment 8 and will speak to my Amendments 14 and 25. I am deeply grateful to the Minister for putting community energy in the Bill with Amendment 8. It is now clear that Great British Energy may facilitate, encourage and participate in those things mentioned in Clause 3(2)(a) to (d) through projects involving or benefiting local communities.

I am really pleased, as this is a win for MPs on all sides of the other Chamber and for noble Lords on all Benches in this Chamber. There is notable strong cross-party support to see community energy in the Bill. It was a key objective for us, and I am delighted that we have had a successful negotiation and got this done. We have the third-best wind resources in the world. It is our view that there can be no Great British Energy without Great British community energy. With this amendment, our objective has been achieved.

It is worth noting that, as the Minister said, GB Energy has a unique role here. When Jürgen Maier was before the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee he talked about a system coming “out of the box”. That is exactly it—going into local communities, GB Energy will be able to deliver community energy and engage with them from start to finish.

I remind the House that community energy could deliver up to 8 gigawatts and power 2.2 million homes, saving two nuclear reactors-worth of energy. It could remove 2.5 million tonnes of CO₂ and provide over 30,000 jobs. What is not to like about that? I am delighted that we have made progress on this and I thank the Minister.

Moving on, my Amendment 25 is a probing amendment in response to a question that my counterpart, Pippa Heylings, asked in the Commons this week about the fact that, at the moment, the £10 million community energy fund is oversubscribed. Some 100 projects are unable to get funding, and the money is due to run out in May. While I greatly appreciate getting community energy into the Bill, can the Minister provide clarity on what will happen with that fund? Is he able to put more money in? Is there an interregnum until GB Energy can start funding it? Ed Miliband gave very strong words in support of community energy but did not really answer my honourable friend’s point about the money. If the Minister can provide any more certainty or say whether this is being looked at, that would be appreciated.

Amendment 14 is our warm homes plan and emergency home insulation plan. It requires the Government to transfer the responsibility for the warm homes plan to GB Energy should it be requested. We have some of that coldest, dampest and most miserable homes in Europe. UK housing stock accounts for around 7% of total carbon emissions. They are among the least energy-efficient homes in Europe, with 12 million homes in England alone currently falling below adequate energy efficiency standards. The UK Climate Change Committee has said that residential retrofits need to increase to a rate of 500,000 a year by 2025 and 1 million a year by 2030 to meet our climate targets. This is a huge and daunting task. It is one of the biggest infrastructure tasks of the 21st century.

Our citizens have suffered cold, damp, draughty and unhealthy homes for far too long. In the single largest housing-related cost burden to the NHS in 2023, some £50 million was spent fighting cold-related illness. Homes cost more to heat than they should because they do not retain the heat that the homeowners pay for. The best energy of all is the energy that we never use, in particular the energy that we do not waste on absolutely nothing. Energy efficiency remains a missing part of overall energy policy. Citizens should not have to choose between heating and eating. In this country, 6 million people live in fuel poverty, while at the same time we are wasting this energy. It is utter madness.

The last Government completely failed to tackle this problem. They cut the funding and the ambition to deliver warm homes and to insulate our homes. That was not good enough. Carbon Brief calculated that UK energy bills were £22 billion higher over the past decade than they should have been because the Conservatives cut the “green crap”. The number of homes being insulated each year at the start of 2024 was 98% below 2012 levels. Of that £22 billion, £5 billion was due to poorly insulated homes and £3 billion was because homes were being built that were not meeting energy efficient standards.

However, no Government of any persuasion has ever managed to tackle this problem. It is a tough nut to crack, even with the best will in the world. Going house-by-house and retrofitting our mixed housing stock is an extremely challenging undertaking. I welcome this Government’s commitment to the warm homes plan and the £6.6 billion in funding that has already been provided. The programme that the Government are setting out will provide low-interest loans to support families to invest in insulation, encourage low-carbon heating and enable the retrofitting of our homes. The Climate Change Committee has estimated that £3.15 billion is probably the total cost of getting this done, but I welcome what the Government are doing. My amendment is not a criticism of that but is here to support.

The burden is on the private sector, where 90% of these properties are owner-occupied and not meeting standards. We need to do stuff with the over-65s, because that is a particular problem. We need to tackle fuel poverty, as we have 2.26 million homes in fuel poverty as of 2022. We need new financing options, particularly green mortgages, so that private home owners can take the cost of making these measures and put them against their mortgage, and we need similar situations for people in the private rented sector.

This is good, though. The New Economics Foundation has said that every £1 spent of public investment could generate £4.60 in capital expenditure and £6.90 in broader economic activity; this is good for our homes and our economy. It could create thousands of green jobs and increase local UK supply chains.

I am worried about the delivery of these plans; that is why I have put this amendment forward. I recognise that the Government are exploring these issues as we speak and that my amendment is a bit radical and left field. I say to the Minister that this is difficult, and at a time when the Government are also trying to put in solar panels and heat pumps. I am not the only person to be concerned about delivery of these plans. I recognise that GB Energy is an independent organisation. My amendment is not prescriptive; it is simply about not ruling out options from the start. It is about making sure that that door is not closed to GB Energy from before it is set up; it is about making sure that there is space for those conversations to take place.

If my amendment passes and GB Energy never approaches the Government or the Minister to say that it wants to take any of this on, for whatever reason, then my amendment does no damage at all; it makes no difference whatever. It comes into play only if GB Energy approaches the Minister and says that it has the skills and the contacts within the industry, that it fits with its community energy plans, and that it wants to do this and make a difference. This amendment, if it does nothing else, allows these conversations to take place, and I think that is a good thing. I dare the Government to be different and take a different approach to this daunting and challenging task.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Watkins of Tavistock) (CB)]

My Lords, I apologise. I failed to make it clear at the beginning that, as Amendment 9 is an amendment to Amendment 8, I have to call Amendment 9.

Amendment 9 (to Amendment 8)

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[Earl Russell (LD)]

The aim of my amendment is not that GB Energy should pay for it; I feel that GB Energy would be a good body to deliver it.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

Okay.

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Moved by

[Earl Russell]

14: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clause—
“Warm Homes Plan and emergency home insulation(1) The Secretary of State must accept any request from Great British Energy to have responsibility over the delivery and implementation of the Warm Homes Plan.(2) If Great British Energy makes a request under subsection (1), the Secretary of State must provide support to Great British Energy following the transference of responsibility.(3) If Great British Energy becomes responsible for the delivery and implementation of the Warm Homes Plan, that delivery must include an emergency home insulation programme which—(a) provides targeted support for people on low incomes,(b) seeks to achieve to the reduction of household energy bills, and(c) contributes to the achievement of the United Kingdom’s climate and environmental targets.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Government to transfer responsibility for the Warm Homes Plan to GBE should it be requested and further requires GBE to introduce an emergency home insulation programme that would seek to reduce household energy bills, and contribute to achieving climate and environmental targets.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I appreciate the Minister’s response and what the Government are doing in relation to the warm homes plan. I also appreciate the commitment he has given, in time. My amendment is not prescriptive; it is simply about keeping those conversations open. I think that GB Energy could fundamentally have a role in delivering all or part of the plans, and I wish to test the opinion of the House.

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[Lord Petitgas (Con)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 15 I will also speak to Amendment 16 in my name. I will start with Amendment 16, which seeks to establish baseline investment governance for GBE. Remarkably, the Bill as drafted provides no clear framework for GBE’s investment decision-making process, leaving critical questions of accountability unanswered. This amendment is a necessary safeguard for three reasons.

First, it addresses the glaring governance gap that I just spoke about. The Bill delegates ultimate authority to the Secretary of State but offers no clarity on how GBE itself will assess value for money or who, within GBE, will be accountable for such decisions. Without defined governance structures, we risk approving an open-ended cash flow without proper oversight. This is simply not acceptable when billions of taxpayer pounds are at stake.

Secondly, it highlights the need for financial expertise and accountability. At Second Reading the Minister suggested giving GBE free rein to pursue opportunities with an entrepreneurial spirit—I think he mentioned independence today. While I sympathise with this ambition, GBE is neither a venture capital fund with a proven investment committee nor a publicly traded company like Ørsted in Denmark, subject to rigorous market scrutiny. In the absence of such mechanisms, it is imperative that His Majesty’s Treasury provides oversight. We need experienced financial professionals—dare I say grown-ups in the room?—to ensure value for money, while balancing financial returns with broader strategic goals.

Thirdly and lastly, Amendment 16 is designed to ensure public trust and confidence. Some may argue that setting governance requirements could stifle innovation. On the contrary, clear accountability and oversight would enhance GBE’s credibility and reassure taxpayers that their money is being managed responsibly. Without these safeguards, we risk undermining trust in this ambitious initiative.

This amendment does not constrain GBE’s mission; it strengthens it by ensuring robust governance and responsible stewardship of public funds. In summary, we are asking for clarification from the Minister of how GBE’s spending will be monitored and how the Government will ensure value for money.

Amendment 15 seeks to establish a cap on the level of funding for GBE. While the Government have allocated £8.3 billion for this initiative, the Bill lacks clarity on whether additional funding may be sought without parliamentary oversight. This amendment is prudent and necessary, again for three reasons.

First, it ensures fiscal discipline and taxpayer protection. GBE’s mission is to attract private investment into renewables but, as we have said several times, there is absolutely no shortage of private capital in this sector. Companies such as Iberdrola, SSE and National Grid have already committed billions to clean energy projects, so there is a clear risk that GBE’s funds will be directed towards high-risk or less attractive ventures like a magnet. As the noble Lord, Lord Mandelson, once said, when politicians try to pick winners, losers invariably find the politicians. A funding limit would safeguard taxpayers, while allowing GBE to prove its effectiveness and build a track record.

Secondly, Amendment 15 aligns with precedents and market practice. Other government initiatives aimed at crowding in private investment have operated within defined financial limits. Moreover, to me, GBE’s structure resembles that of a venture capital fund holding minority stakes in multiple projects. It would be unheard of for such a fund to operate with open-ended financial commitments. That would undermine investor confidence and fiscal accountability.

Thirdly and lastly, a cap signals discipline, not doubt. Some may argue that limiting funding could project a lack of ambition. On the contrary, in an era of fiscal scarcity, such a measure would demonstrate resolve and responsible stewardship of public resources. It would also encourage efficiency in achieving GBE’s objectives while maintaining credibility with Parliament and the public.

This amendment would not hinder GBE’s goals. It strengthens them by ensuring accountability and the prudent use of public funds. I am minded to test the opinion of the House on Amendment 15.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I rise from these Benches to speak against Amendment 15 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Petitgas. His amendment seeks to add a limit on the maximum amount of money that the Secretary of State can provide to GBE—anything above and beyond the £8.3 billion that the Government have committed to. We strongly oppose this amendment. The noble Lord talked about resolve, strength and all these things, but I do not agree with any of that. It is not for the Opposition to use an amendment to legislation to determine what funds a Government can spend on something in the future, when we do not know what is going to happen.

Just this week we have talked about the Drax situation; the Government have halved the subsidies to Drax. The money that the Government are saving from having to subsidise Drax is money that could well go to GB Energy—for example, to fund the long-duration energy storage that we desperately need, so that we can do the transition and keep the lights on. The money should be used for other renewables projects.

It is for the Government to make day-to-day spending decisions and they are accountable for the decisions they make, as GB Energy is accountable to the Treasury and the public for how it spends its money. Ultimately, the Government themselves are responsible to the public, but I do not think it is for the Opposition to put a cap on what Governments can spend. Core spending is a decision for the Government, so this would be a highly unusual amendment and, if it is put to a vote, we will oppose it.

[Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)]

My Lords, I support the amendments in the name of my noble friend Lord Petitgas. In tabling his amendments, my noble friend looks to protect the taxpayer while securing the financial integrity of GB Energy, establishing that GB Energy’s attempt to ramp up renewables must not come at the cost of fiscal responsibility and £8.3 billion. The drafting of Clause 4 is far too ambiguous. We must introduce sufficient safeguards by limiting the scope that the financial powers in the Bill afford the Secretary of State. The taxpayer is coughing up a significant £8.3 billion into an investment vehicle that, as my noble friend Lord Petitgas said, has the potential to completely de-risk the profits of multi-million pound energy companies. Meanwhile, the Government have cancelled winter fuel payments, introduced an NI jobs tax and launched a raid on British farmers, all to save money.

The reality is that £8.3 billion is actually a very tricky number. On the one hand, it is a lot of money, a big, significant investment into energy. On the other hand, in the scheme of energy investment required, it is a relatively inconsequential figure, especially when we talk about wind farms being built out to the potential tune of £100 billion. Either way, whether we consider that to be a big or a small number, the taxpayer deserves to know that the Government are deploying public funds appropriately. The Bill contains no limitation on how much financial assistance GB Energy will receive, there is no cap on the money that can be pumped into GB Energy and nor does the funding have to undergo any approval. What is to stop GB Energy becoming a bottomless pit?

Clause 4 states:

“The Secretary of State may provide financial assistance to Great British Energy”.


But, again, we are lacking in detail on ways to hold the Secretary of State and GB Energy accountable. We have seen no method to restrict the amount of financial assistance the Secretary of State may provide, nor do we understand how the success of each investment will be measured, or indeed reported on. I trust that the Minister will take these amendments seriously. Our transition to net zero must be done with an eye to fiscal responsibility, ensuring that the energy transition is both sustainable and affordable.

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[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I offer Green support for Amendment 18 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and a range of other distinguished Members of your Lordships’ House. I will also speak to my Amendment 19, which goes further than the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Alton, but which demonstrates just how moderate and reasonable his amendment is. Your Lordships’ House, the British Government and many parts of British society have long expressed their absolute horror at modern slavery, so surely we can put this into this important Bill, where it is such a crucial issue, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, identified.

The noble Lord mentioned the Democratic Republic of the Congo and how the issues of modern slavery there, as well as child labour amounting to modern slavery, are very much an issue in terms of the energy supply chain. My amendment refers to

“credible evidence of deforestation or human rights abuses”.

I will take human rights abuses first. Much of what is happening in the Democratic Republic of the Congo might not fit the definition of modern slavery, but it absolutely fits the definition of human rights abuses. I note that I was at a briefing today with the DRC Foreign Minister, Thérèse Kayikwamba Wagner, who gave us the news, which has since been more widely reported, that, sadly, the ceasefire that had been called in the eastern Congo had been broken by M23, backed by the Rwandan Government. We have already seen nearly 3,000 people killed and some 3,000 people injured, and we heard from the Foreign Minister that, sadly, they expect those figures to rise very significantly. These are violent human rights abuses—there is simply no other term.

To tie this to the Great British Energy Bill, it is worth noting that the DRC produces 70% of the world’s cobalt, yet it somehow disappears without trace and reappears out the other side as legal, apparently appropriately sourced material, without any traceable chain to account for that. Of course, the people of the Democratic Republic of the Congo do not benefit financially from that. It is others—damaging, dangerous, aggressive forces—who benefit from it.

I wrote the amendment in this particular way because it goes back to the passage of what became the Environment Act, during which a number of noble Lords here today had much the same debate, with the tying together of deforestation and human rights abuses. One of the issues here is that indigenous people are responsible for protecting huge amounts of the world’s forests, and abuse of their rights is very much tied to the destruction of deforestation. I will note just one stat: if deforestation was a country, it would be the third-largest emitter of carbon behind China and the US. Much of that deforestation is of course linked in particular to agriculture. But in the DRC and parts of Latin America in particular, mining and deforestation are intimately linked.

So, your Lordships’ House has before it two amendments. I do not plan to push mine to a vote, but I offer the Green Party’s strongest support to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for his amendment. How could we not vote to ensure that there is action on modern slavery?

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak also in favour of Amendment 18 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool, and supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, and the noble Lords, Lord Offord and Lord Teverson. I will speak briefly and will not repeat the arguments that I made in Committee.

We believe in people and planet, and we should never have to choose one or the other. The two are intertwined and co-dependent. Our goal of reaching net zero must not come at the expense of supporting repressive regimes that do not support the human rights of their own citizens, or on the back of slave labour.

In brief, we are very supportive of the intentions behind this amendment, but we feel that the ultimate solutions lie above and beyond GB Energy. The real solutions in the UK are about working with our allies and partners to develop our own manufacturing capacity for solar panels in particular, so that we are free of those from China. California has made progress on this; it can be done, particularly working with our European allies. This is really important stuff that the Government need to get to grips with.

We do not want to see GB Energy put at an unfair disadvantage vis-à-vis every other private contractor or engineering company doing solar panels in the UK. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, has already spoken about this, but I know that noble Lords will be very grateful to Jürgen Maier for having come and spoken to us. Unfortunately, I was off at the time, but my understanding is that it was a very good and productive meeting, and that he gave very strong and powerful arguments and responses to questions that were put to him on these issues. GB Energy, as we know, also has lots of stringent reporting requirements in place, including under the Modern Slavery Act.