Windsor Framework (Democratic Scrutiny) Regulations 2023

Earl of Kinnoull Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)]

My Lords, the Windsor Framework is a compromise between the United Kingdom and the European Community. As with all compromises, neither side gets everything it wants. But it seems to me that, although the Windsor Framework is not perfect, it is a distinct improvement over the original protocol. The Stormont brake we are debating is an essential part of the Windsor Framework. It, too, is imperfect, and, despite the explanations of the Government and the Minister this afternoon, it is not clear to me exactly how it will work in practice.

Among other things, it will need the European Commission to provide the British Government with the right information about legislative proposals in good time, and it will need the British Government to pass the right information to the Northern Ireland Assembly in good time. “In good time” must surely mean “before EU legislation is set in store”, so that Northern Ireland concerns can be taken fully into account when it really matters. Could the Minister confirm that that will be the case?

Can the Minister also confirm that the Northern Ireland institutions will be strengthened to enable them to carry out the proper scrutiny under the terms of the Stormont brake? That will help the committee on the protocol, and now the Windsor Framework—which it is a great privilege to chair—in our current examination of the Windsor Framework, including the Stormont brake. The committee looks forward to hearing from the Foreign Secretary shortly on that subject.

Therefore, the Windsor Framework is not perfect, and neither is the Stormont brake. There is much still to examine, and they will both, no doubt, evolve. But the great advantage of the Windsor Framework is that it not only proposes a potential solution to the intractable problems of the protocol but opens up the prospect of a constructive relationship with the European Union and its member states, and a less fractious relationship with the United States. Those are important gains that will benefit the whole of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland.

I note that, although the polls must be taken with caution, they suggest that majority opinion in Northern Ireland is in favour of the Windsor Framework. On the other hand, history teaches us that policies introduced in Northern Ireland without the support of all main communities may not lead to the stability that Northern Ireland needs and craves. I hope the Government can square that circle.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, a plethora of issues between the UK and the EU are currently unresolved and in cold storage due to the impasse over the Ireland/Northern Ireland protocol. If resolved, many, if not all, of these issues would give mutual benefits to both sides. The trade and co-operation agreement has 24 committees, one of which is the very powerful Partnership Council, which would approve the output of the other 23, which are staffed not by politicians but largely by officials. The agendas and minutes of those committees are public, and I have observed before that they are operational but not really operating, held back by the cold hand of the protocol impasse.

I cite one example in particular: Horizon Europe. The European Affairs Committee has been active in trying to persuade the parties of the mutual benefit of co-operation in science, research and innovation—in short, that Horizon was a win-win for both sides. In response to the committee’s March 2022 letter advancing this point, respected EU Commissioner Gabriel wrote, in April last year, that

“the current political setting of this relationship should be recalled: there are at present serious difficulties in the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement”.

She went on to discuss the impasse:

“We look forward to a prompt resolution, and to the enhanced cooperation in research, space and other areas with the establishment of the association to Union programmes, including Horizon Europe.”


This is a polite, frank and clear expression of the wider impasse effects.

While our sister sub-committee, the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland Sub-Committee, is looking at the specifics of the Windsor Framework agreement and is in the process of taking evidence, as my noble friend Lord Jay laid out very clearly, the European Affairs Committee has for a long time been well aware of the wider benefits to both sides that would accrue from the resolution of the protocol impasse. It is in that spirit that I fully support the statutory instrument and will vote against the fatal amendment.

Finally, can the Minister inform the House of what discussions are currently under way about the accession to the Horizon Europe programme?

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, we should recognise that it is entirely understandable that the Democratic Unionist Party should find it impossible to support the Windsor Framework in its current form. It was betrayed by Boris Johnson in 2019, and it is natural that it should seek a complete reversal of that betrayal. In the Northern Ireland elections last year, it set out fully the tests against which it would judge any proposals to deal with the acute problems created by the Northern Ireland protocol. The party has examined the Windsor Framework carefully against its tests and concluded that it does not meet them all.

At some point, the DUP itself will be tested—at the ballot box, when the next elections take place in Northern Ireland. Those elections will show whether the party has correctly interpreted the wishes of that part of the electorate which supports it. In the meantime, the Windsor Framework will be implemented, and our country—our union as a whole—will be able to judge its efficacy. Surely that is the right way to proceed. Our Prime Minister conducted the negotiations which led to the framework with immense tenacity and skill, showing a mastery of detail that we have not seen in a holder of his office for quite some time.

Let us see what the implementation of the framework brings. It may show that further change is needed. In that case, the astute negotiator in No.10 will have further work to do. For now, let us rejoice that, surely, there are grounds for satisfaction that Northern Ireland’s union with the rest of the country is infinitely stronger than it was just over a month ago, before the Windsor Framework was agreed. It is a compromise, of course—just like the Belfast agreement 25 years ago.

Identity and Language (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]

Earl of Kinnoull Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 22nd June 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Morrow (DUP)]

I am speaking now about Clause 7, which the Minister is very familiar with. Furthermore, as was mentioned earlier, we were told that the Irish language Act was not a part of the Belfast agreement. I accept that; it was not. It was not a part of the St Andrews agreement. Was a private arrangement made? Somehow, mysteriously, this all started to evolve. Those were issues for the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Northern Ireland Executive. They should be allowed to get on with that. Was the protocol included in any of this? Was the Executive consulted in relation to that? I can clearly state that the answer is no—although I am not a member of the Executive, I have enough party colleagues who are in it.

Finally, in the 1998 Act, there are very narrow grounds, to put it mildly, on which Westminster can actually intervene. One of those grounds is national security, as I referred to yesterday. So this is being expanded all the time—“Oh, we’ll do this, and we’ll do that”—and it leaves one side or the other totally demoralised. I suspect that the architects of the Belfast agreement, some of whom are here, and those who signed up to it are bitterly disappointed at the way the whole thing has been treated and pulled. At times, they must wonder whether it will survive. It is kicked into touch when it has to be, and then parts of it are implemented and parts of it are not. We have to get to the stage where trust is built between the communities in Northern Ireland and the Government in London.

[The Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees (The Earl of Kinnoull) (CB)]

My Lords, I hope the procedural gods will forgive me for allowing that, but I think it was very important to get those things on to the record, and I stand by my decision.

Amendment 40 withdrawn.

Northern Ireland

Earl of Kinnoull Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I am very grateful to the former Secretary of State for reminding me of three very painful and frustrating years of my life after the Assembly and Executive were last in a state of flux and unable to function. It is important to remind the House at this stage that the First and Deputy First Ministers have ceased to hold office, but individual Ministers remain in office and the Assembly is still meeting. I think there are something like 28 pieces of legislation currently before the Assembly, and 15 sitting days before it is supposed to rise for the election in which to try to progress a number of them.

If the legislation to which I referred earlier is to receive royal assent shortly, there will be a period after the next election when Ministers can remain in place while an Executive is formed. So the situation is not—or hopefully will not be—exactly akin to that in which we find ourselves after 2017 and the noble Lord found after the Assembly fell in 2002. There are some important differences, but I entirely take his point about the urgency to get on with things.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, the Secretary of State was due to travel to Washington tomorrow on what sounded like a very important trip. I wondered whether this trip was still going ahead.

Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Earl of Kinnoull Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 13th December 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

Amendment 8A stands in my name and is very short—

[The Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees (The Earl of Kinnoull) (CB)]

If I may, I enjoyed the debate earlier, but the convention is that you do not move it formally in Committee.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I have in front of me, from the Public Bill Office, “If you wish to move your second amendment, you say, ‘My Lords, I beg to move manuscript Amendment 8A, standing in my name, which is as follows’, and read it out. You then make your speech.”

[The Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees (The Earl of Kinnoull) (CB)]

I think that was put down just in case something odd happened. The convention for right now is not to move it.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

I am sorry; I am new. I do not know the conventions. Shall I go on to move it?

[The Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees (The Earl of Kinnoull) (CB)]

I do not think you want to move it. It was spoken to earlier.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

This is a separate amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees (The Earl of Kinnoull) (CB)]

I know, but it was grouped with Amendment 7A and was spoken to there.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

That is fine, because it is very short and was simply going to repeal the Act, which would mean that we would not have the protocol consent principles.