Artificial Intelligence: Regulation

Earl of Clancarty Excerpts

Monday 10th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

I completely agree with my noble friend that the aim of AI should be to increase the opportunity for those things that humans can do, and that includes, of course, human-to-human interaction. It is a very important point to consider as this is rolled out, including across the NHS. On automated decision-making, we have been clear that there needs to be human involvement in terms of somebody who knows what they are doing having the opportunity to review a decision and to alter it if necessary.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Ranger of Northwood (Con)]

My Lords—

[Captain of the King’s Bodyguard of the Yeomen of the Guard and Deputy Chief Whip (Baroness Wheeler) (Lab)]

It is the turn of the Cross Benches.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, the Government will have heard clearly enough by now—consultation or no consultation—that the creative industries want, and indeed require, an opt-in on the use of their own data. Will the Government simply listen and do this?

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

We are clearly in the middle of a consultation. It is due to read out on 25 February. We are accumulating evidence both on how this would work and on the technologies necessary to make it work. It would be inappropriate to jump to a conclusion before we hear all that.

Data (Use and Access) Bill [HL]

Earl of Clancarty Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 28th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freyberg (CB)]

My Lords, as one of the supporters of these amendments, I support the amendment so expertly moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron. I declare my interest as someone with a long-standing background in the visual arts and as an artist member of DACS, the Design and Artists Copyright Society.

I thought it would be helpful to highlight and focus on just one element of the noble Baroness’s speech, specifically the issue of transparency. Here, there is a theme developing throughout the House on this issue. One of the biggest obstacles to ensuring fair pay for creators is that AI companies have not been transparent about what works. They have been used for training AI models. Tech companies have rebuffed transparency measures because they say that this will reveal trade secrets. While I understand that business need, it cannot come at the expense of creators. There is a way in which to make transparency measures work for both business and creators, giving access to creator representatives about the use of their work on a confidential basis to facilitate copyright licensing.

This is, after all, what data rights have done for millions of people, giving them the agency to know when their data has been used. It is entirely reasonable and possible for transparency measures to be upheld and properly enforced. Therefore, considering the significance of this issue, I should be very grateful if the Minister will confirm that transparency measures proposed in the copyright and AI consultation will not be conditional on a reservation rights system.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, I rise briefly in support of my noble friend Lady Kidron’s important amendments. I declare an interest as a visual artist.

I want to pick up on the language that Rachel Reeves used in conversation with Laura Kuenssberg in her Sunday programme, when she talked about getting the balance right. It needs to be emphasised that it is not a question of balance between the tech companies and the creative industries but a question about the use of data, and the consideration of the origin of that data should be central to a Bill about access to data. That is critical. It is perhaps ironic that at the heart of this there is a void, which is the lack of data about data, as my noble friend Lord Colville showed clearly in his speech. The creative industries themselves successfully use AI. As Paul McCartney pointed out in the same Laura Kuenssberg programme, in his case he did so by actively seeking and obtaining permission for the use of data, as everyone should. These amendments are wholly reasonable and do what the creative industries are asking for. If the Government do not accept them, I shall certainly vote for them.

[Baroness Harding of Winscombe (Con)]

My Lords, I also support these amendments so brilliantly introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron. As a just-finishing member of the Communication and Digital Committee, I, too, associate myself with everything that our departing chair has just said so ably.

I am a lover of the book Why Nations Fail, written by two Nobel laureates. It charts how countries succeed and fail in adopting technology. There are two important lessons in that book. The first is that one must not turn one’s back on the technology. As we consider this very difficult issue, it is important to say that those of us in favour of these amendments are not trying to be the German boatman sinking the first steamboat, the Ottoman Empire turning its back on the printing press or the hand knitters objecting to knitting machines in Elizabethan times. We embrace AI. It will transform society for the good. That is the first important point.

The second lesson that Why Nations Fail teaches us is that, even as one embraces technology, the rule of law, property rights and giving people certainty over what they create and own are one of the other essential ingredients to success in harnessing the benefits of technology. That is why this issue matters so much. I, too, rewrote my brief remarks overnight on the back of the DeepSeek launch yesterday. I was struck by the panic among those in Silicon Valley, who thought, “Oh, my God. Is it possible that the Chinese have stolen open AI’s IP in order to create a better product?” Gosh, has Silicon Valley for a moment begun to feel what creative copyright owners have been feeling for several years? Actually, the valley is learning that certainty of copyright is an important part of driving growth in an adoption of technology.

Another interesting thing happens when you ask DeepSeek what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989. It will not tell you, so it is clear that these supposed black boxes can be quite specific about what they include and exclude. That gives me confidence, as a non-technologist, that if we give the technology companies the challenge of creating simple mechanisms for copyright owners, they will jolly well do it, because they can definitely do it when they want to exclude content from models today.

Data (Use and Access) Bill [HL]

Earl of Clancarty Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 28th January 2025 Lords Chamber

For my part, I thank the Minister. I also thank DACS, the Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society, Directors UK, BECs and Picsel, which helped brief and get this proposal this far. This move has tremendous potential and could help unlock further funding for cultural industries. I beg to move.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, I added my name to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and I, too, thank the Minister for the constructive meeting we had about the smart fund. While the creative industries are hugely important to this country, as was made clear in an earlier debate, artists’ earnings have suffered a real battering. As the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, said, the Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society reported that authors earning all their income from writing decreased from 40% in 2006 to 19% in 2022, and performers and visual artists have comparable concerns about their earnings. The smart fund would provide a useful additional—I emphasise “additional”—means of funding in terms of fair recompense for creators.

The smart fund would be managed by established copyright societies, which have a track record of fair payment to creators, regulated by the Collective Management of Copyright (EU Directive) Regulations 2016. So that infrastructure, to a great extent, already exists. European schemes successfully provide royalties to UK rights holders. However, as acknowledged by the Government, this is under threat due to Brexit and alignment with such schemes would be extremely helpful.

I understand that discussions between DACS, the IPO and the Government have now opened up, and these discussions need to include DCMS. I say to the Minister that it would be helpful if Chris Bryant were made aware of what is said in this debate. This scheme could be introduced at little or no cost, which would be a win-win for everybody. Finally, I thank DACS and the ALCS for their briefings for this debate.

[Lord Freyberg (CB)]

I support the amendment, to which I have attached my name, along with the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I declare my interest as a member of DACS, the Design and Artists Copyright Society, and I, too, thank the Minister for meeting us prior to this debate.

Today’s digital landscape presents unique and pressing challenges for visual artists that we can no longer ignore. A 2022 YouGov survey commissioned by DACS uncovered a revealing paradox in our digital culture. While 75% of people regularly access cultural content at least three times a week, with 63% downloading it for free, an overwhelming 72% of the same respondents actively support compensating artists for digital sharing of their work. These figures paint a stark picture of the disconnect between the public’s consumption habits and their ethical convictions about fair compensation.

The Netherlands offers a compelling blueprint for change through DACS’ partner organisation Pictoright. Its innovative private copying scheme has successfully adapted to modern consumption habits while protecting artists’ interests. Consider a common scenario in museums: visitors now routinely photograph artworks instead of purchasing traditional postcards. Under Pictoright’s system, artists receive fair compensation for these digital captures, demonstrating that we can embrace the convenience of digital access without sacrificing creators’ right to earn from their work. This proven model shows that the tension between accessibility and fair compensation is not insurmountable.

The smart fund offers a similar balanced solution for the UK. This approach would protect our cultural ecosystem while serving the interests of creators, platforms and the public alike. I hope the Government will look favourably upon this scheme.

Design Right, Artist’s Resale Right and Copyright (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Earl of Clancarty Excerpts

Monday 20th November 2023 Grand Committee

In conclusion, these two sets of regulations seek to use powers contained in the REUL Act to introduce targeted changes. The Design Right, Artist’s Resale Right and Copyright (Amendment) Regulations 2023 will make some technical changes largely to better tailor the legislation to a UK context. The Intellectual Property (Exhaustion of Rights) (Amendment) Regulations 2023 are of paramount importance for ensuring the continued operation of the UK’s exhaustion of IP rights regime. These targeted changes will ensure that rights holders, businesses and consumers can continue to have certainty and confidence in the UK’s IP framework. I beg to move.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a visual artist. Some of my remarks will, I hope, be of interest to DCMS as well.

Many of the areas covered by these regulations are important to the arts and creative industries, but I want in particular to highlight the concerns of the visual arts. On 23 February this year, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and I argued strongly for the retention of the artist’s resale right, having supported an amendment to that effect that was helpfully tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, during the passage of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill. I will not repeat all the arguments made in that debate, but I am glad—as will be the artists affected and, of course, the relevant rights management organisation, the Design and Artists Copyright Society—that the Government have rightly decided to allow this extremely useful scheme to be continued. I am grateful to DACS for its briefing on this.

The ARR has been in operation in the UK for 17 years. As the timely report produced by DACS this year shows, it has paid more than £120 million in royalties to over 6,000 artists and their heirs. UK artists themselves earn on average between £5,000 and £8,000 a year for their work—very little for the important work that they do, really—and much of these royalties gets reinvested in their practice, which will include studio rents and materials. Heirs use the royalties to store, restore and archive artists’ work, so this scheme is hugely beneficial not just to the individual artists concerned but, crucially, to the overall culture of the visual arts in this country.

DACS has confirmed what the Minister said, which is that the change from euros to sterling is useful, in that it will simplify the collection process for the royalty, as well as providing a currency that, to UK beneficiaries, will have a consistent value in the sense of not having to go through an exchange rate. I understand that, in response to the IPO, DACS also looked at the number of sales that would qualify under a new threshold—£1,000 rather than €1,000—which turns out to be a small percentage of total qualifying sales per year.

However, I want to make the wider point that, important as this scheme is, it will most benefit artists who are a few rungs up the ladder and have a reasonable secondary market, although the poorer artists will get the greater remuneration through ARR. Times are extraordinarily tough for a variety of reasons for those artists who are starting out or whose work has not yet achieved much value in the secondary market.

By supporting this scheme, the Government are signalling that they support visual artists, but one of the things that a Government could do better is ensure that artists are properly remunerated for the work they do, in particular for inclusion in publicly funded exhibitions. Beyond ARR, we can and should do much better in this country to support visual artists, particularly at the very beginning of their careers.

My only regret with the present legislation is that it was necessary in the first place. We have not had the gap that those who have benefited from the Horizon programme have endured, although the uncertainty will have caused some sleepless nights for the artists affected. As we know, there is no upside whatever to Brexit for the arts and creative industries. We have, quite rightly, talked a fair amount about the multitude of problems facing touring musicians, and it is too easy to forget that other forms, including the visual arts and the arts trade more generally, are significantly affected by Brexit. As I have said before, artists, particularly those without galleries to represent them, have been reduced to unwillingly smuggling their own work across borders, even for prearranged exhibitions in Europe, which is a ludicrous state of affairs. These are artists who are not just making great work but often very engaged in cultural exchange, which, even in an age of globalisation, feels even more important today, given how much communities, even within Europe, can be riven apart from each other.

In this internationalist vein, whatever one thinks, in the round, about the trade agreements that the UK has been making with other countries, it is good that ARR has been included in these deals, such as with Australia, with which we have a reciprocal agreement. Of course, these regulations honour that commitment that this country is making with other countries that also operate this scheme, as well as encouraging others to implement ARR. When the Minister comes to reply, could he provide us with a full list of those deals in which ARR features, and perhaps explain why the resale right has been left out of trade deals with Canada and India, if that is the case?

I thank the Alliance for Intellectual Property, DACS and the Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society for their briefings on IP exhaustion. I hope that the Government understand by now how significant it is that so many artists in so many disciplines are united in wishing to continue with the current regime and not move to an international exhaustion scenario, which would so detrimentally affect these industries at every level.

Continuing the UK-plus regime is very much to be welcomed, although industry is mindful that it is officially an interim decision. Designers, writers and publishers alike, the music industry, visual artists and so many others within the creative industries are very much in agreement on this. We are very good at exporting our creative product. For example, 60% of the UK’s book sector income comes through exports, yet it is estimated that a significant proportion of its revenue—about £2 billion—could be at risk under an international exhaustion scenario, with the threat in particular to the domestic market. ALCS says:

“If we were to have a regime of international exhaustion the consequences could be less pay for authors and fewer publishers”


based in the UK able to

“take a chance and invest in creative talent across the country.”

It will be no help to the consumer whatever if, in the end, there is no product to buy.

It is worth thinking in this respect about the structure of the arts and creative industries. It is not a few large companies for which shocks to the system just might conceivably benefit consumers. The UK’s IP-rich creative industries are composed of many businesses of differing sizes, with many small businesses and freelancers. They need support. Within this context, what they need above all else is stability—a key word in the Minister’s speech—which the current regime enables. However, I welcome the new government decision on this, which will provide the necessary continuity that the arts and creative industries require, but we need to make this arrangement permanent.

EU Programmes

Earl of Clancarty Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question, and of course pay tribute to his relentless focus on holding us to account on making sure the Horizon deal went through. I am delighted that he at least welcomes that part of the news. On taking advantage of Horizon, I am told that, as of right now, British researchers and institutions can bid for Horizon 2024 calls. The vast majority of open calls now are for 2024, and those are open and available for British institutions. There are some remaining 2023 calls, which are supported by the Horizon guarantee scheme, as before. We are able now to move quite fast. On the question on visas, I will have to write to him, as I do not have any information on that at present.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, this is, on the face of it, excellent news for the sciences. Now we need excellent news for education and those whose interests are in the arts and humanities as well as the sciences, through the Government renegotiating to rejoin Erasmus. If Turing was that great, Northern Ireland would not be as interested as it is in the access to Erasmus that Ireland is providing funding for. Turing might be better than nothing, but does the Minister not agree that better than nothing is a dispiriting ambition? We should rejoin Erasmus as soon as possible.

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

Better than nothing is indeed a dispiriting thing. Better than Erasmus is the assessment that the Government made when declining the opportunity, on negotiation of the TCA, to remain part of Erasmus and choosing instead to put in place the Turing scheme, on the grounds that it offers not only better outcomes but better value for money for British taxpayers.