Covid-19: Proof of Vaccination
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, I am a little confused by what the Minister is saying. Is he saying that we are not going to get a proper Covid passport, as the EU will be offering from 1 July and Ireland from 19 July in both digital and physical options? Could he answer that in detail?
Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, I apologise for not being clearer; I will be crystal clear right now. Today, you can have a digital certificate on your iPhone, you can have a digital certificate that is printed out from your computer or you can call a number and have a paper certificate sent to you in the post immediately. All of those options are live today.
Covid-19 Update
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 2 months ago)
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Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, they are issued with a certificate. It is a digital certificate that is put in their patient record. In the modern day, that is by far the most effective way to ensure that people know that they have had the vaccine. A physical card has the potential for fraud. We have looked that extremely carefully, but we think the digital approach is the right one. Most people will receive a small card with their second dose appointment on it, but if my noble friend did not get one, I am sorry about that.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, following on from that question, the need for vaccination passports to travel abroad, discussed earlier, now looks very likely, including, of course, to the EU, which will have its own standard. All the talk is of a phone app, but will the Government ensure that a paper version will be provided which will be acceptable abroad? A significant minority of older people still do not have mobile phones, and why should OAPs have to buy one in order to travel?
Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, in this matter, we will be led by international standards, and collaboration with our neighbours is essential when it comes to matters of international travel. If a paper certificate is required for international travel, we will put in place arrangements for that. A huge amount of the work that goes on for foreign travel nowadays happens before you ever get anywhere near the airport to depart. Passenger locator forms, pre-testing and vaccination certificates are all necessary in order to book a ticket, and that is where, really, the responsibility of the individual lies.
Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (England) (No. 4) Regulations 2020
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, my first question is: what is the Government’s understanding of where in the community the virus is being transmitted most? Surely this is the evidence that should be shaping the measures being taken, including this lockdown.
I welcome the Prime Minister’s intention to mass test. However, if, as the ONS has said, Covid is rising rapidly among older schoolchildren, should not a priority during this period be to test all schoolchildren and staff, and indeed university students and staff too? Will there be an advertising campaign to accompany the Liverpool testing pilot, perhaps along the lines of getting tested being a social duty, particularly as so many people might be infectious but display no symptoms? Mandatory testing, as in Slovakia, would create an undesirable precedent in the UK but Slovakia’s project to test the whole population over two weekends is nevertheless admirable.
On Friday, I was privileged to attend one of the few live performances of Sarah Kane’s play “Crave” at the Chichester Festival Theatre before it was live-streamed. Everyone was masked and socially distanced in an airy auditorium. Lockdown is another blow to the arts when they are just starting to get back on their feet, particularly because of their considerable dependence for survival on a paying public.
However, those who continue to be most affected are the self-employed. The increase in support, at least for the lockdown period, is welcome, but a majority of the self-employed in the arts and entertainment are ineligible for support. They include the newly self-employed and those paid through dividends. Freelancers who work in the arts will not be covered by the Culture Recovery Fund. In its report Jobs, Jobs, Jobs, the Resolution Foundation identified a real issue with targeting the self-employed most in need. Have the Government looked at that report? Will they address these continuing concerns?
Lastly, I ask the Minister for clarification on what the lockdown means for private music teaching. The Minister says that the Government are prioritising education. It is vital that this teaching continues through the lockdown to nurture the next generation of musicians. I sent the Minister a note on this question this morning, so he might not have had time to see it, but there is a discrepancy between the guidance and the legislation, which clearly lists education as an exception without specifying what form that may take. Can music teachers continue to teach privately from home and visit other houses to teach? Can private music schools still operate face-to-face teaching? Can peripatetic music lessons in schools take place?
Concerns about the status of extracurricular activity within Covid-safe environments extend to art, drama and sport, as we have heard, with huge implications for mental and physical well-being, which we should not neglect, even for a month.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Alderdice) (LD)
The noble Lord, Lord Lamont of Lerwick, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Clark of Kilwinning and Lady Newlove, have withdrawn so I call the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham.
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place and on Public Transport) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, in Greta Thunberg style, without being scientists in the relevant fields, many of us have asked the Government whether they have looked at particular scientific evidence, or what the scientific evidence is for the decisions they are taking or the decisions that they might take; we have asked these things about face masks. Unfortunately, although we know that the department is very busy and that the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, is again very busy today, we often do not get answers to these questions, and when we do, they can be sketchy. Having said that, however, the Minister has given us much more scientific detail today about the arguments for and against the use of face masks. I would say that it is not an entirely fair appraisal of the scientific material, much of which is very convincing about the effectiveness of their use.
There are two things to consider here. One is that the public need to have confidence that the Government are doing the right thing, and therefore they have to show that they are thinking deeply about these matters. The second is that the public have the right to know what the scientific evidence is, and I would include local authorities in this principle of access. The legal challenges being mounted are surely a direct result of the Government’s secrecy in these matters, which is regrettable, but if the attempts to resolve this crisis were being made primarily through the public sector locally, rather than through private companies, one strongly suspects that there would not be the same concerns.
I would like to ask the Minister about the latest position on the science of face masks, but he has given the answer already. This may seem like going over old ground, although the evidence could be accumulating and may be refined. This is important because while most people in my area of Hampshire are complying with the regulations, there remain a significant minority who do not. This cannot be explained away by exemptions. On my train to and from London, I have had to move seats or even carriages a few times to get away from people not wearing masks. While huge fines are now threatened for not wearing a mask on public transport, I am still not convinced that the Government have won, or have even tried to win, the hearts and minds of people for this measure. Has research been carried out on variations in compliance across the country?
However, most people are complying—or at least they do so in my area. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, pointed out in an earlier debate, there is nevertheless a logical and common-sense precautionary aspect to face masks, and perhaps that is fortunate. But there is another reason for asking about the science and being convinced by it. If face masks are significantly effective, as the relevant scientific authorities in other countries believe them to be, we should ask whether their use should be extended much further than it has been. I therefore welcome the extension to shops, pub staff and taxis set out in the SIs we are discussing. Surely the bottom line here is that the combination of social distancing and the wearing of face masks will preclude the spread of the disease in those circumstances where these measures are deployed. I ask the Minister: would it be true to say that where this combination is not deployed or not happening, that is where we see the spread of the disease? Can the use of face masks therefore be extended to both inside and outside environments? I agree very much with what the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, had to say about that.
Just looking at schools, at the end of September, just over 6% of schools reported being affected by Covid. What is the evidence of transmission within schools or outside the school gates? Should there be regulations about the wearing of masks within schools and what about school buses? Is there now a strong argument for children to wear masks from school to home or school to family car? At certain times of day, it is difficult to avoid large groups of schoolchildren, very few of them wearing masks and all shouting, as is normal, on their way home or to and from the railway station. Are the Government looking at this?
I know that some of these questions have been asked before, but now that schools have been open for a while, there ought to be data about transmission to which the public also have a right to access. Have the Government compared notes with other countries, including Germany, which has comparable statistics as regards Covid in schools?
The last time I participated in a debate on face masks, I asked a question about the effectiveness of visors as opposed to masks, as they are increasingly used as an alternative. I did not receive a reply the first time, so I ask the Government again: have they looked at this and what is their advice to the public?
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 7 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, I support the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton. As I said in previous debates, we should not be debating these regulations so long after their introduction. Nevertheless, the debates we do have are important. I am convinced that the persistence of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, in helping the Government shift their position on face masks, albeit grudgingly, has saved lives. One just wishes that face masks, like so many other measures, had been introduced earlier than they were.
I have recently been travelling by train quite a bit and taking the tube. From my experience, South Western Railway is not doing a bad job. At present, trains are long enough to socially distance and there are regular announcements by guards on the trains. Mask wearing is now the norm on station concourses such as Waterloo, as I asked the Government for in July. One thing I will ask the Minister to take a look at is that you never see sanitising gel dispensers anywhere near ticket machines. It might be advisable to carry your own bottle, but not everyone will.
Most people comply with mask wearing, at least in the locations so far legislated for, but a minority still do not, even considering exemptions. This week, I counted four separate individuals in one uncrowded tube carriage not wearing masks. Some railway workers and shop workers, who often stack shelves and are therefore out in the open, are not doing so either. It is not mandatory, but it is inconsistent.
Wearing masks protects others. One wishes that the Government believed in this measure more, but the equivocal stance they take makes room for naysayers, including celebrities. The science is not ambiguous, as the Minister quoted the CMO as saying this week. I ask him to look at the summary by Jeremy Howard and Trisha Greenhalgh of more than 100 studies concluding the effectiveness of masks. In March, the head of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention said that the mistake Europeans were making was not wearing them. This week, the virologist Robert Redfield, director of the United States CDCP, said that face masks might be a more effective tool in limiting the spread of Covid than a vaccine. This begs the question of how masks could be deployed further to tackle the increase in cases we are now seeing. I suggest this could include groups of schoolchildren walking to and from school.
I also ask the Minster to take a look at a new study from Florida Atlantic University, which concludes that cloth masks are significantly more effective than either visors or masks with valves. Droplets get in under visors. Visors look smart, but too many are using them as an alternative, rather than an additional form of protection, as is mandatory for hairdressers. The Government’s guidance does not say much about visors; it could say more.
Covid-19 Update
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, I do not know the precise legal powers of the marshals, but I remind the House that city centres and public areas frequently have civilian marshals of one kind or another to help guide public gatherings. This is a not uncommon aspect of city and public life, and I have an enormous amount of faith in the good sense of the British public to go along as requested without legal mandation.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB) [V]
My Lords, the WHO’s watchword has been “test, test, test” to isolate the disease, so I am in favour of the Prime Minister’s stated ambition of mass testing. With regard to Operation Moonshot, have the Government a date in mind for testing audience members at theatres and sports venues? Secondly, does the Minister agree that we should now be testing at airports, as British Airways is asking for?
Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, we have embraced the “test, test, test” recommendation in a very big way, and the noble Earl is entirely right to aspire to using testing to enable a return to the economy, theatreland and all sorts of public gatherings. We are looking energetically at this, working with suppliers, academia and the NHS to figure out ways of using the new testing technologies in the way he describes.
However, we are at a relatively early stage and I am not able to make announcements on this here today. We have funded—to the tune of £500 million—a huge amount of investment in these technologies and, when they are right, we will roll them out in the theatres and airports of Britain.
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 8 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, giving local authorities these powers was the right thing to do, although we should have been discussing this in Parliament in July, not September. At present, the key issue is that local authorities need the best evidence on which to base their decisions. The gathering of that data now ought to be controlled by local authorities. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, when he said in the House yesterday:
“Give us the tools and we will get on with the job.”—[Official Report, 2/9/20; col. 350.]
If local councillors and others are saying that there is a problem, the Government need to listen and ask what they can do. They should listen to those such as Andy Burnham when he said yesterday that the emphasis should be on local door-to-door testing, rather than a national test and trace system.
Do the Government believe that testing is increasingly important in those situations where people are on the move—going back to work or school—when there is a greater chance of the disease being spread? We know, for instance, that Berlin has had to shut 5% of schools already. That is not an argument for the country not to open up; it is an argument for much more comprehensive testing, including in schools, in workplaces and before and after flying abroad.
We should, however, go further than that. If you can easily buy a reliable test kit online from one of numerous private practices, I do not see why you cannot now get a test easily and informally from your own NHS doctor, whether you have symptoms or not. The problem needs to be understood as one of availability at the local level, not capacity. I suggest to the Government that when people go for a flu jab this autumn, it will be the perfect time for a large section of the population to get tested for Covid, if mass testing is now a government objective.
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 9 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB) [V]
My Lords, I will make two points. The first is that, for the first time, I feel uncomfortable that these policy decisions are made by the UK Government, rather than being decided within the framework of an English Parliament by England. The latest data show that England appears to be diverging significantly from the devolved nations in terms of deaths and new cases.
Secondly, these are essentially business regulations and, while people want to get back to work, while Covid is still prevalent this will not be possible for all, because of the direct effect that health measures which still need to be applied will have on the financial viability of some sectors. These include the performing arts, which will not come properly out of lockdown until next year at the very earliest and will be caught in a cleft stick between Covid on the one hand and the assumption by the Government that there will be a functioning economy on the other. Most workers in the performing arts are freelancers. It is vital that the self-employed scheme is extended to the end of the year.
Coronavirus
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Bethell
My noble friend Lord Pickles is entirely right to say that people in some professions are clearly at higher risk. Bus drivers, taxi drivers and hospital porters are three such professions, and I pay tribute to those who put themselves in harm’s way in order to serve the public. The Prime Minister announced, I think two weeks ago, a special programme to introduce regular, asymptomatic testing to protect people in those professions, and we are working very closely with their representatives to roll out the necessary schemes at pace.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB) [V]
My Lords, in view of the large number of cases that have been confirmed at a meat processing plant in Anglesey and the likely reduction in social distance, will the Government seriously consider extending the mandatory wearing of face masks for people in enclosed spaces, including workplaces, for staff and customers in shops, and certainly for staff in restaurants and pubs?
Lord Bethell
My Lords, the introduction of face masks is something that has been recommended by the Government, but the mandatory wearing of them is not. We are looking at the various recommendations from SAGE to inform the proposals that might come after the lifting of social distancing, but our focus remains on hygiene, social distancing and isolation. Those are the three most effective measures and we remain committed to them for the moment.
Covid-19: Masks
Earl of Clancarty Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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The Earl of Clancarty (CB) [V]
I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, on his persistent campaign, and only wish that the Government had acted earlier. We knew in April, from Jeremy Howard’s research, of the significant effect that mandatory face masks had in Austria and Czech Republic. A new German study finds that masks reduced reported infections there by 40%. Lives will still be saved in the UK if mandatory mask wearing is extended to other public spaces. That is particularly important in those areas of the country where there is still a high rate of infection, and local authorities should be involved.
Will the Government ensure that masks are worn on station platforms and concourses, by all station staff, as well as those on trains, and by the British Transport Police, who should be seen to set an example? Will this measure be extended to shops, where close contact with people is often unavoidable, as well as to restaurants and pubs providing takeaways? Current guidance for restaurant staff does not recommend face masks for Covid-19. Will that be urgently reviewed?