Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Rory Stewart]

I agree absolutely. All hon. Members would agree strongly that, if a species is critically endangered, it is not suitable to be hunted, let alone put on a wall as a trophy. We will look closely at scientific evidence across the range of endangered species. It will be extremely relevant to focus on that, with September and October being the time for the CITES conference in Johannesburg.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Australia and France have both banned the use and import of lion products. What do they know that the Minister refuses to act upon?

[Rory Stewart]

We are looking closely at what Australia and France are doing. We have been working on a common EU-US position in order to change practices in Africa. It makes a huge difference that we do this together as 700 million people in the EU and the US rather than trying to do it individually.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 17th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Hedgehogs of the world, unite and fight!

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I am afraid I cannot follow that, Mr Speaker.

Given that £20 million has been spent on the badger cull so far, and that hundreds, possibly thousands, of badgers have been killed, will the Secretary of State tell the House how many of those that have been killed had been tested for bovine TB?

[Elizabeth Truss]

If we do not get a grip on this terrible disease, we shall end up spending £1 billion on dealing with it over the next 10 years. The fact is that it was the Labour party, in 2010, that left us with the worst levels of the disease in Europe. That is why we are having to deal with it now, and I am following the advice of the Chief Veterinary Officer, who says that culling is an important part of dealing with it. Why do Labour Members not congratulate the hard-working farmers in Somerset, Gloucestershire and Dorset who have delivered this year, and who are helping us to deal with this terrible disease?

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Fiona Bruce. Not here.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

10. What consultation she undertook before her recent announcement on extending the badger cull.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

We are committed to implementing our 25-year strategy to eradicate bovine TB. The strategy has been the subject of extensive consultation. The issuing of a licence to Dorset is a measured approach to extending this policy, building on experience from previous years. There was a local consultation and an opportunity-to-comment procedure at the beginning of the licensing process.

[Mr Hanson]

This folly has now cost the taxpayer £17 million, and it is so far not proving as effective as the approach taken by the Assembly in Wales. Will the Minister give a commitment not to extend the cull beyond Dorset until there has been a proper evaluation of what is happening in Wales and of the folly of spending £17 million to date on something that is totally ineffective?

[George Eustice]

If we were to do nothing to tackle this disease, it would cost us about £1 billion over the next decade. The reality is that no country in the world has successfully eradicated TB without also dealing with the issue in the wildlife population. That is why a cull will continue to be part of our balanced strategy, alongside tighter cattle-movement controls and other measures, such as vaccination.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 12th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

All I can say to my hon. Friend, who has been a champion of this industry for many years, is that we are working on many different fronts to create new markets. In the past year, we have opened markets for breeding cattle to countries such as China, for pig meat to Chile and for dairy to Cuba. In the year ahead, we will continue to look at exporting beef to Singapore and poultry meat to Papua New Guinea. The country is working incredibly hard to open as many new export markets as possible.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

5. What steps he plans to take to ensure that the monitoring of the pilot badger culls in Somerset and Gloucestershire is independently scientifically evaluated.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)]

DEFRA is currently working closely with Natural England and the Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency to develop the detail of how the monitoring will be implemented, including auditing and evaluation procedures. The results and outcome of the monitoring of this year’s culls will be made publicly available after they have been completed.

[Mr Hanson]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that reply. Will he ensure that, in addition to that scientific examination, he also meets with the Welsh Assembly Minister who is dealing with this matter in Wales—not too far from his own constituency—where an alternative method, vaccination, is being undertaken? Will the Secretary of State agree to evaluate that as part of the process as well?

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question. We have regular discussions with our counterparts across the border. We take information from them and they take information from us, so we are observing with interest the vaccination trial that is taking place over 1.5% of the surface area of Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dan Rogerson]

I and Ministers from other Departments hold regular round-table meetings with the insurance industry, and I will be sure to raise the issue that my hon. Friend has mentioned this morning.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

T6. With beef prices falling, beef farmers in my constituency are keen to ensure that the Department uses its good offices to increase public procurement of beef for the defence industry, national health service, schools and others. Will the Minister please look at that urgently?

[George Eustice]

I can confirm that Peter Bonfield is currently doing a piece of work for us on how we might improve the Government’s buying standard and have a more balanced approach to procurement so that price is not the only determinant. He is working on that and we expect to publish details of that plan later this year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Considerable progress has already been made on livestock identification and the complex rules governing animal movements. We introduced electronic reporting for pigs in 2011, and we will do the same for sheep from the spring. We have negotiated changes to the EU sheep tagging rules for the historic flock, generating savings of up to £11 million for sheep farmers. We will also implement the recommendations made by the farming regulation taskforce to simplify how we define livestock holdings in England to avoid confusion around the rules, and we will phase out cattle tracing links and sole occupancy authorities to further streamline the regime.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Minister confirm that one matter that is not red tape is the establishment of a food crime unit? Will he indicate when he intends to do that and how he will discuss the matter with the devolved Administrations, particularly that in Wales?

[George Eustice]

The right hon. Gentleman is referring to the interim report by Professor Elliott. We will look at all his recommendations and respond to the final report when it is published later this year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

That is exactly what we want to see happening, and I applaud my hon. Friend’s local council for promoting responsible dog ownership. We provided £50,000 of funding to three welfare charities to carry out community engagement programmes in targeted hot spot areas with known problems of antisocial behaviour with dogs. Final reports are being received and we intend to publish the results for further dissemination of best practice. Educating the public on how to look after their dogs properly is absolutely essential to tackling irresponsible dog ownership.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Minister made of the cost of microchipping to the consumer? What discussions has he had with the devolved Administrations to ensure that we have a UK-wide approach?

Agricultural Wages Board

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mary Creagh]

I think the hon. Gentleman has made that case very well himself. We expect an announcement from our colleagues in the Welsh Assembly Government, but they have made a commitment to retain the functions of the AWB in Wales. We will see what that delivers over time.

All was quiet until the appointment of the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), who decided to abolish the AWB by tacking it on to the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill—a regulatory reform that could therefore bypass the Welsh Government. His Department conducted a pitifully short, four-week consultation. Let us remember that there was a full 12-week consultation on banning ash trees from Europe four months after Ministers were first told that ash dieback disease was here. We can see where this Secretary of State’s priorities lie—apart from the squirrels. He is swift to take money from workers’ pockets and hand it back to their bosses, but slow to defend the natural environment.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that the Secretary of State represents a border constituency? If, as expected, the Labour-controlled Welsh Assembly maintains the AWB at its own expense, members of the farming community in his constituency would have to travel only one or two miles, potentially, to get a better deal. He will have a skills shortage in his own constituency.

[Mary Creagh]

Absolutely. The Secretary of State has not only 1,120 agricultural workers, but a food bank, in his constituency, so that is an excellent point very well made.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I begin by telling the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) that it is not just Conservative Members who represent rural areas; many of us on the Opposition Benches represent large rural communities, know them, understand them, live in them and want to represent them in the House today.

In this week of praise for great Prime Ministers of the 20th century, I would like to add my words of praise for Clement Attlee for introducing the original legislation in 1948. I do so not to look back more than 60 years to the conditions in 1948, but to put it on the record that these things matter today for my constituents and those of other Opposition Members.

[Mr Russell Brown]

I represent a constituency north of the border, where this discussion has no real relevance or impact, but farm worker constituents who have contacted me are in solidarity with their colleagues in England and Wales and say that what is going on is absolutely wrong. I appreciate that the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) says that he has not been contacted, but I have. Perhaps his constituents have not contacted him because they have no trust in what he is doing.

[Mr Hanson]

This issue certainly matters to people across the whole of the United Kingdom because, even though the AWB is for England and Wales, its abolition will have an impact throughout the UK.

In my constituency, 235 businesses are involved in agriculture and farming, and more than 11% of my constituents work in the agricultural sector. The market town of Mold in my constituency depends not only on the cattle and agriculture markets to bring people in, but on the wages of people who work in agriculture to maintain its shops, business and rural community.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I have a great deal of respect for the right hon. Gentleman, but the National Farmers Union briefing states:

“The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE) for 2010 showed that 90% of workers employed in agricultural trades received gross pay above £6.50 an hour”,

which I think was the minimum set by the AWB. If he is seriously concerned about wage levels in the agricultural sector, how does he respond to that review of actual pay levels?

[Mr Hanson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. I am genuinely worried that wages will fall when the AWB is abolished, and I am not the only one: the Farmers Union of Wales, which I will come on to later and which represents the bulk of farmers in my area and other farmers in Wales, supports the official Opposition’s stance against the abolition of the AWB. There is a division of opinion and we need to expose it.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I am not sure that I follow the right hon. Gentleman’s logic, so could he talk us through it a little more? If 90% of pay is already above the AWB’s minimum, how come it has not already fallen back to that minimum?

[Mr Hanson]

If the hon. Gentleman will let me develop my argument, he will see that this is not just about pay. He was not here at the time, but the Secretary of State kept me up for 36 hours so he could vote against the minimum wage. He did not do that so that wages could rise; he did it so that wages would not rise. My worry about the abolition of the AWB is based on exactly the same principle: it will remove a floor that protects the work force in my constituency.

As I have said, my constituency depends on agriculture and more than 11% of my constituents work in agriculture. Courses in horticulture and agriculture at Northop college bring in people to train in agriculture. These are key issues. Although Government Members may view minimum rates of pay, overtime, holiday entitlement, sick pay, rates of pay for young workers, compassionate leave, rest breaks, maximum deductions for tied housing, allowances for keeping working dogs and payment of on-call and night allowances as issues of regulation, to my constituents they are bread and butter matters that impact on their lives and they want their representative and others who represent rural areas in Parliament to stand up and speak on their behalf. They are not idle issues.

I am getting a bit long in the tooth. I have been here for 21 years and the first Bill Committee I sat on was for the 1992 employment Bill that abolished every single wages board apart from the AWB. That Bill was taken through this House by the then Member for Stirling, the now noble Lord Forsyth, who is not known for his left leanings, but who decided to maintain the AWB because he recognised, even at that time, that it was crucial for conditions as well as wages.

The national minimum wage has been mentioned. I was very proud to vote for the national minimum wage and am grateful that my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) is here. It was one of the greatest achievements of the Labour Government. The then Opposition kept this House up late into the evening because they did not support it. Why should we trust a party that does not support the national minimum wage when it says that this measure will maintain or improve pay and conditions?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

Is it not right that over the past 15 or 20 years, the Conservative party has always taken away working people’s rights and benefits when in government?

[Mr Hanson]

My main worry is that the assessment of the Welsh Assembly that some £26 million to £28 million will be taken out of agricultural wages in Wales over the next 10 years will prove to be correct and that rural poverty will increase. That is money that will not be spent in the shops of Mold, Holywell and Flint in my constituency, that will not help to sustain the rural economy in my constituency, and that will not be spent in the rural post offices, pubs and communities of my constituency. That money will be lost to the area. This measure will be damaging for the 13,829 people across Wales who work in the agricultural sector and who depend on the wages board.

As I have mentioned, the Farmers Union of Wales, which, with respect to the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart), is not affiliated to the Labour party, has said on many occasions that it opposes the moves by the UK Government to abolish the Agricultural Wages Board. It stated:

“The Union has always supported the AWB and remains concerned that unless there are systems in place to protect payments to agricultural workers, the industry will not attract the highly skilled individuals it needs to thrive”.

It went on to say:

“As many farms in Wales run with relatively few staff, the AWB is considered an important means of avoiding potential conflict and lengthy negotiations with individual staff”.

It also said:

“The economic climate within the agricultural industry has made it a less attractive option for young people, and rewarding skills, qualifications, and levels of responsibility is a vital means of persuading high calibre people to remain or enter into the industry.”

As my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) said, the Labour-controlled National Assembly for Wales was not consulted about the abolition of the AWB, as it should have been by statute. The Government failed to do that and passed the measure through the back door in a Bill that did not require consultation. The Secretary of State knows that he should have consulted the National Assembly. These are important matters for my colleagues there. As has been mentioned, the National Assembly may outline shortly its plans to keep the minimum wages and conditions set by the Agricultural Wages Board in a Welsh context. However, that will involve bureaucracy and cost. It would have been far better, particularly from a Unionist party, if the conditions had been maintained across England and Wales.

As I mentioned in an intervention, the Secretary of State represents a border area. His constituency of North Shropshire is not far from mine; his borders Wales and mine borders England. If there are different terms and conditions on either side of the border, the market will flow across it. If the conditions are worse in England than in Wales, which they may be if the Welsh Assembly retains the board, the Secretary of State will find that there is a flow of individuals looking for better terms and conditions, who will perhaps only have to travel 1 or 2 miles across the border. I find it strange that that will be caused by a Unionist politician. Mold, Holywell and Flint in my constituency will lose income because of this measure, but I believe that there will also be a confidence issue.

In conclusion, 63% of the people who were consulted did not support this measure and the Welsh Assembly does not support it. I accept, as the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire said, that Unite the Union does not support the measure to abolish the board, but it is part of a broad-based coalition that does not accept it. The Minister of State—the Tonto to the Secretary of State’s Lone Ranger—did not support this proposal in opposition, but is an advocate of it in government. He should examine his conscience and think about what is in the interests of his constituents.

The people driving the change are the same people driving tax cuts for millionaires. They are out of touch with their communities and with rural areas. I am proud to represent a rural area and speak up for it in Parliament, and I will be proud to vote today and say that whatever has already happened in legislation, I support the AWB.

Horsemeat (Food Fraud)

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

If my constituents are mis-sold a range of products, they will have rights. Does the Secretary of State believe that they should have rights if they are mis-sold food products?

[Mr Paterson]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that of course people have a right to take their products back. What we clearly agreed with the retailers on Saturday was that if any product has been recalled, any consumer has the right to take that product back to the retailer and get a full refund.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; I cannot think of any measure that we are undertaking that will do more to help a whole range of economic activities in rural areas. I had a meeting with Ian Livingston, the chairman of BT Group, the week before last. We also discussed the issue in Cabinet, and the Prime Minister himself chaired a meeting on it this week. This is an absolute priority for the Government. We are determined to reach the target of 90% of premises being connected to superfast broadband, with the remainder having a standard of 2 megabits. If my hon. Friend has data on issues affecting BT, he should write to me.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

17. Does the Secretary of State accept that, according to the Government’s own estimates, the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board will take £250 million out of national rural economies and hit 14,000 workers in Wales? Will he listen to what people are saying outside the House about that abolition, and in particular will he listen to what is being said about it in another place, so that he understands the strong feeling that the proposal should be rejected?

[Mr Paterson]

I am afraid that I just disagree with the right hon. Gentleman. The board is a dinosaur relic from 1948. The rural economy is now dynamic. Those in agriculture are skilled people—cowmen are like hen’s teeth, and skilled tractor drivers are in demand—and many of them are paid well over the minimum wage, which did not exist in 1948.

department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I support the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) in his request to the Minister today. The hon. Gentleman represents mid Wales and I represent north Wales, and a number of my constituents from the National Farmers Union and from the Farmers Union of Wales have echoed very much the concerns that he has raised. They simply cannot plan their businesses on the basis of a 2p cut in the price of milk already, with the potential for further cuts before 1 August. As he has mentioned, dairies such as Robert Wiseman Dairies are squeezing the dairy farmers of north Wales hard on the price of milk. A number of farmers in my constituency have raised the concern that they have potentially lost, because of the cut to their businesses, between £40,000 and £60,000 per business. No business could take a mid-year hit of that proportion with so little notice without it potentially having an impact on their viability. Farmers in my constituency came to London last week to raise the issue and are seeking the solution proposed by the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire.

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way and agree with much of his speech. Does he share my concern that the contracts that dairy farmers have to put up with mean that they have to live with cuts of 2p, then another 2p, then further erosion, but if they want to get out of them they have to give six months’ notice? Does he not agree that that is unacceptable?

[Mr Hanson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue and the key is to have a code of conduct for the contracts. I know that the Minister had discussions last week about a potential voluntary code and look forward to his updating the House today on his progress. If a definitive decision has not yet been made, I would welcome hearing from the Minister what plans he has to ensure that during the period between now and when the House returns in September he will be able to update Members who have an interest in the dairy industry, as well as Members in general, on this matter. I share the wish of the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire to see a voluntary code at first, but I know that my colleagues on the Labour Front Bench would certainly support regulation through a statutory version of that code if the voluntary form was not successful.

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

I wonder whether my right hon. Friend can help me. Was it not a previous Conservative Government who did away with the milk marketing boards? The whole question of their being able to maintain prices meant that the farmers could maintain their businesses.

[Mr Hanson]

My hon. Friend and I have both been in the House since 1992 and I vividly remember the Milk Marque being abolished in the early 1990s, which led to a free-for-all that caused some difficulties. Let us put those issues to one side, however, as I am concerned about how we can make progress today.

The Minister has an opportunity to explain to the House how he is progressing on the voluntary code. If a voluntary code does not succeed, he will certainly have my support and that of my hon. Friends on the Front Bench, I think, for a statutory code in due course. The key issue, however, is how to ensure that those who produce get a fair price for their produce. At the moment, the big businesses mentioned by the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire in his opening remarks, such as Robert Wiseman, can squeeze my constituents to the extent that they cannot make a living out of the production of milk.

Much of the milk produced in my constituency does not go to retail in supermarkets; it goes into the production of butter, yoghurts, cheese and other produce. The code needs to encompass not just supermarkets but all outlets for milk.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman feel the same concern as many of us about the large investments that farmers have had to make because of the new regulations on slurry and its disposal? That investment, on top of a worse price for milk, makes it more difficult for them to survive.

[Mr Hanson]

The key point is that whatever challenges farmers face in their investment and their businesses, no business can take the type of change that has been imposed now with a 2p cut some months ago followed by a further 2p cut by August. That is being imposed by businesses that are choosing to do so to enable supermarkets to have loss leaders. Customers can have cheaper milk, which must be welcomed in some ways, but ultimately we need a fair deal for all. We need a fair deal for producers, for supermarkets and for those people who buy and transport milk and make it into other products. At the moment, that is not happening because, as the hon. Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths) said, the inflexibility of contracts means that farmers cannot get out of them.

We need an update from the Minister on the review of the contracts and an examination of how we can ensure long-term stability for milk production. We need the voluntary examination of contracting and, if that fails, we need the Government to take regulatory action to ensure that the interests of all parties in this important industry, not just in my area of north Wales but throughout the United Kingdom, are defended.

Finally, will the Minister update us on his discussions with my colleagues in the National Assembly for Wales? They have a devolved responsibility for some aspects of dairy production but contracting legislation must be dealt with on a UK-wide basis to ensure that markets are not further distorted between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. I support what the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire wants to see, which the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) will no doubt comment on in a moment.