Finance (No.2) Bill Debate

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Department: HM Treasury

Finance (No.2) Bill

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts
Monday 8th November 2010

(14 years ago)

Commons Chamber
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Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
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I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
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With this it will be convenient to discuss

New schedule 2—Video Game Production

1 After section 1216 of CTA 2009, insert—

Part 15A

Video Game Production

Chapter 1

Introduction

Introductory

1216A Overview of Part

‘(1) This Part is about video game production.

(2) Sections 1216B to 1216G contain definitions and other provisions about interpretation that apply for the purposes of this Part. See, in particular, section 1216C which explains how a company comes to be treated as the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(3) Chapter 2 is about the taxation of the activities of a video game production company and includes—

(a) provision for the company’s activities in relation to its video game to be treated as a separate trade, and

(b) provision about the calculation of the profits and losses of that trade.

(4) Chapter 3 is about relief (called “video game tax relief”) which can be given to a video game production company by way of additional deductions to be made in calculating the profits or losses of the company’s separate trade.

(5) Chapter 4 is about the relief which can be given for losses made by a video game production company in its separate trade including provision for certain such losses to be transferred to other separate trades.

(6) Chapter 5 provides—

(a) for relief under Chapters 3 and 4 to be given on a provisional basis, and

(b) for such relief to be withdrawn if it turns out that conditions that must be met for such relief to be given are not actually met.

Interpretation

1216B “Video Game” etc

‘(1) This section applies for the purposes of this Part.

(2) “Video Game” includes a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a display screen.

(3) A video game is completed when it is first in a form in which it can reasonably be regarded as ready for copies of it to be distributed to the general public.

1216C Video game production company

‘(1) For the purposes of this Part “video game production company” is to be read in accordance with this section.

(2) There cannot be more than one video game production company in relation to a video game.

(3) A company that (otherwise than in partnership)—

(a) is responsible—

(i) for design, programming and production of the video game, and

(ii) for delivery of the completed video game,

(b) is actively engaged in production planning and decision-making during design and programming, and

(c) directly negotiates, contracts and pays for rights, goods and services in relation to the video game,

is the video game production company in relation to the video game.

(4) If there is more than one company meeting the description in subsection (3), the company that is most directly engaged in the activities referred to in that subsection is the video game production company in relation to the video game.

(5) If there is no company meeting the description in subsection (3), there is no video game production company in relation to the video game.

(6) A company may elect to be regarded as a company which does not meet the description in subsection (3).

(7) The election—

(a) must be made by the company by being included in its company tax return for an accounting period (and may be included in the return originally made or by amendment), and

(b) may be withdrawn by the company only by amending its company tax return for that accounting period.

(8) The election has effect in relation to video games which commence design in that or any subsequent accounting period.

1216D “Video game-making activities” etc

‘(1) In this Part “video game-making activities”, in relation to a video game, means the activities involved in design, programming and production of the video game.

(2) The Treasury may make regulations to—

(a) amend subsection (1),

(b) provide that specified activities are or are not to be regarded as video game-making activities or as video game-making activities of a particular description, and

(c) provide that, in relation to a specified description of video game, references to video game-making activities of a particular description are to be read as references to such activities as may be specified.

“Specified” means specified in the regulations.

1216E Production expenditure”, “core expenditure” and “limited-budget video game”

‘(1) In this Part, in relation to a video game— “production expenditure” means expenditure on video game-making activities in connection with the video game, and “core expenditure” means the total costs that relate specifically to the producing and developing of the video game up to the point of commercial release.

(2) For the purposes of this Part a “limited-budget video game” is a video game whose core expenditure is £3 million or less.

(3) In determining if a video game is a limited-budget video game, any core expenditure that—

(a) is incurred by a person under or as a result of a transaction entered into directly or indirectly between that person and a connected person, and

(b) might have been expected to have been of a greater amount (“the arm’s length amount”) if the transaction had been between independent persons dealing at arm’s length, is treated as having been of an amount equal to the arm’s length amount.

1216F UK expenditure etc

‘(1) In this Part “UK expenditure”, in relation to a video game, means expenditure on goods or services that are used or consumed in the United Kingdom.

(2) Any apportionment of expenditure as between UK expenditure and non-UK expenditure for the purposes of this Part is to be made on a just and reasonable basis.

(3) The Treasury may by regulations amend subsection (1).

1216G Company tax return

In this Part “company tax return” has the same meaning as in Schedule 18 to FA 1998 (see paragraph 3(1)).

Chapter 2

Taxation of Activities of Video Game Production Company

Separate video game trade

1216H Activities of video game production company treated as a separate trade

‘(1) This Chapter applies for corporation tax purposes to a company that is the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(2) The company’s activities in relation to the video game are treated as a trade separate from any other activities of the company (including any activities in relation to any other video game).

(3) In this Chapter the separate trade is called “the separate video game trade”.

(4) The company is treated as beginning to carry on the separate video game trade—

(a) when design begins, or

(b) if earlier, when any income from the video game is received by the company.

1216I Calculation of profits or losses of separate video game trade

‘(1) This section applies for the purpose of calculating the profits or losses of the separate video game trade.

(2) For the first period of account the following are brought into account—

(a) as a debit, the costs of the video game incurred (and represented in work done) to date, and

(b) as a credit, the proportion of the estimated total income from the video game treated as earned at the end of that period.

(3) For subsequent periods of account the following are brought into account—

(a) as a debit, the difference between the amount of the costs of the video game incurred (and represented in work done) to date and the corresponding amount for the previous period, and

(b) as a credit, the difference between the proportion of the estimated total income from the video game treated as earned at the end of that period and the corresponding amount for the previous period.

(4) The proportion of the estimated total income treated as earned at the end of a period of account is given by— C / T x I where— C is the total to date of costs incurred (and represented in work done), T is the estimated total cost of the video game, and I is the estimated total income from the video game.

Supplementary

1216J Income from the video game

‘(1) References in this Chapter to income from the video game are to any receipts by the company in connection with the making or exploitation of the video game.

(2) This includes—

(a) receipts from the sale of the video game or rights in it,

(b) royalties or other payments for use of the video game or aspects of it (for example, characters or music),

(c) payments for rights to produce games or other merchandise, and

(d) receipts by the company by way of a profit share agreement.

(3) Receipts that (apart from this subsection) would be regarded as of a capital nature are treated as being of a revenue nature.

1216K Costs of the video game

‘(1) References in this Chapter to the costs of the video game are to expenditure incurred by the company on—

(a) video game-making activities in connection with the video game, or

(b) activities with a view to exploiting the video game.

(2) This is subject to any provision of the Corporation Tax Acts prohibiting the making of a deduction, or restricting the extent to which a deduction is allowed, in calculating the profits of a trade.

(3) Expenditure that (apart from this subsection) would be regarded as of a capital nature only because it is incurred on the creation of an asset (the video game) is treated as being of a revenue nature.

1216L When costs are taken to be incurred

‘(1) For the purposes of this Chapter costs are incurred when they are represented in the state of completion of the work in progress.

(2) Accordingly—

(a) payments in advance of work to be done are ignored until the work has been carried out, and

(b) deferred payments are recognised to the extent that the work is represented in the state of completion.

(3) The costs incurred on the video game are taken to include an amount that has not been paid only if it is the subject of an unconditional obligation to pay.

(4) If an obligation is linked to income being earned from the video game, no amount is to be brought into account in respect of the costs of the obligation unless an appropriate amount of income is or has been brought into account.

1216M Pre-trading expenditure

‘(1) This section applies if, before the company began to carry on the separate video game trade, it incurred expenditure on development of the video game.

(2) The expenditure may be treated as expenditure of the separate video game trade and as if incurred immediately after the company began to carry on that trade.

(3) If expenditure so treated has previously been taken into account for other tax purposes, the company must amend any relevant company tax return accordingly.

(4) Any amendment or assessment necessary to give effect to subsection (3) may be made despite any limitation on the time within which an amendment or assessment may normally be made.

1216N Estimates

Estimates for the purposes of this Chapter must be made as at the balance sheet date for each period of account, on a just and reasonable basis taking into consideration all relevant circumstances.

Chapter 3

Video Game Tax Relief

Introductory

1216O Availability and overview of video game tax relief

‘(1) This Chapter applies for corporation tax purposes to a company that is the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(2) Relief under this Chapter (“video game tax relief”) is available to the company if the conditions specified in the following sections are met in relation to the video game—

(a) section 1216P (intended for commercial release),

(b) section 1216Q (British video game), and

(c) section 1216R (UK expenditure).

(3) Video game tax relief is given by way of additional deductions (see sections 1216S and 1216T).

(4) Section 1216U contains provision about unpaid costs and artificially inflated claims.

(5) In this Chapter “the separate video game trade” means the company’s separate trade in relation to the video game (see section 1216H).

(6) See Schedule 18 to FA 1998 (in particular, Part 9D) for information about the procedure for making claims for video game tax relief.

Conditions of relief

1216P Intended commercial release

‘(1) The video game must be intended for commercial release.

(2) For this purpose—

(a) “commercial release” means distribution to the paying public, and

(b) a video game is not regarded as intended for commercial release unless it is intended that a significant proportion of the earnings from the video game should be obtained by such distribution.

(3) Whether this condition is met is determined for each accounting period of the company during which video game-making activities are carried on in relation to the video game, in accordance with the following rules.

(4) If at the end of an accounting period the video game is intended for commercial release, the condition is treated as having been met throughout that period (subject to subsection (5)(b)).

(5) If at the end of an accounting period the video game is not intended for commercial release, the condition—

(a) is treated as having been not met throughout that period, and

(b) cannot be met in any subsequent accounting period.

This does not affect any entitlement of the company to relief in an earlier accounting period for which the condition was met.

1216Q British video game

‘(1) Subject to subsection (2), a video game is a British video game for the purposes of this Part if it achieves a minimum of 19 points out of a maximum of 37 from the following table, with a minimum of 9 points being obtained in sections A and B:

A

Cultural Content

Number of points

A1

The video game is based on locations in Europe (including fictionalised versions of locations in Europe) or on peoples of Europe.

From 0 to 4 points

A2

The video game is inspired by or based upon: (i) European underlying material (such as a film, a book or artistic work;or(ii) a sport (or sports) that originated in Europeor(iii) an event (or events) held (or previously held) within Europe;or(iv) any other European subject matter.

From 0 to 4 points

A3

The in-video game dialogue and in-video game text is mainly in the English language.

2 points

B

Cultural Contribution

B1

The video game is an original video game (as opposed to being a sequel to a previous video game).

3 points

B2

The video game is based on or strongly features a narrative (as opposed to being a purely abstract or non-linear video game).

From 0 to 4 points

B3

The video game incorporates any clear technical or creative innovations such as innovations in: (i) gameplay; (ii) graphics; (iii) user interface; (iv) artificial intelligence, audio or physics; or (v) online or multiplayer functionality.

From 0 to 4 points

B4

The video game represents or reflects: (i) diverse European culture;or(ii) European heritage;or(iii) European creativity.

From 0 to 4 points

C

Cultural Hubs

C1

At least 50 per cent. of the production budget in incurred within the UK.

From 0 to 4 points

C2

The in-video game text is translated into at least two other official languages of the EEA.

2 points

D

Cultural Practitioners

D1

Executive Producer.

1 point

D2

Lead Programmer.

1 point

D3

Lead Artist.

1 point

D4

Scriptwriter.

1 point

D5

Lead Designer.

1 point

D6

Lead music and audio composer.

1 point

Total Achievable Points

37 points



(2) Notwithstanding the above, a video game is not a British Video Game if it is of a pornographic nature or features extreme violence.

1216R UK expenditure

‘(1) At least 25 per cent. of the core expenditure on the video game incurred must be UK expenditure.

(2) The Treasury may by regulations amend the percentage specified in subsection (1).

Additional deductions

1216S Additional deduction for qualifying expenditure

‘(1) If video game tax relief is available to the company, it may (on making a claim) make an additional deduction in respect of qualifying expenditure on the video game.

(2) The deduction is made in calculating the profit or loss of the separate video game trade.

(3) In this Chapter “qualifying expenditure” means core expenditure on the video game that falls to be taken into account under Chapter 2 in calculating the profit or loss of the separate video game trade for tax purposes.

(4) The Treasury may by regulations—

(a) amend subsection (3), and

(b) provide that expenditure of a specified description is or is not to be regarded as qualifying expenditure.

1216T Amount of additional deduction

‘(1) For the first period of account during which the separate video game trade is carried on, the amount of the additional deduction is given by— E x R where— E is—

(a) so much of the qualifying expenditure as is UK expenditure, or

(b) if less, 80 per cent. of the total amount of qualifying expenditure, and

R is the rate of enhancement (see subsection (3)).

(2) For any period of account after the first, the amount of the additional deduction is given by — (E x R) - P where—

E is—

(a) so much of the qualifying expenditure incurred to date as is UK expenditure, or

(b) if less, 80 per cent. of the total amount of qualifying expenditure incurred to date,

R is the rate of enhancement (see subsection (3)), and P is the total amount of the additional deductions given for previous periods.

(3) The rate of enhancement is—

(a) for a limited-budget video game, 100, and

(b) for any other video game, 80 per cent.

(4) The Treasury may by regulations amend the percentage specified in subsection (1) or (2).

Miscellaneous

1216U No account to be taken of amount if unpaid

‘(1) In determining for the purposes of this Chapter the amount of costs incurred on a video game at the end of a period of account, ignore any amount that has not been paid 4 months after the end of that period.

(2) This is without prejudice to the operation of section 1216L.

1216V Artificially inflated claims for additional deduction or video game tax credit

‘(1) So far as a transaction is attributable to arrangements entered into wholly or mainly for a disqualifying purpose, it is to be ignored in determining for any period any additional deduction which a company may make under this Chapter.

(2) Arrangements are entered into wholly or mainly for a disqualifying purpose if their main object, or one of their main objects, is to enable a company to obtain an additional deduction under this Chapter to which it would not otherwise be entitled or of a greater amount than that to which it would otherwise be entitled.

(3) “Arrangements” includes any scheme, agreements or understanding, whether or not legally enforceable.

Chapter 4

Video Game Losses

1216W Application of sections 1216X and 1216Y

‘(1) Sections 1216X and 1216Y apply to a company that is the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(2) In those sections— “the completion period” means the accounting period of the company—

(a) in which the video game is completed, or

(b) if the company does not complete the video game, in which it abandons video game-making activities in relation to the video game,

“loss relief” includes any means by which a loss might be used to reduce the amount in respect of which the company, or any other person, is chargeable to tax,

“pre-completion period” means an accounting period of the company before the completion period, and

“the separate video game trade” means the company’s separate trade in relation to the video game (see section 1216H).

1216X Restriction on use of losses while video game in production

‘(1) This section applies if in a pre-completion period a loss is made in the separate video game trade.

(2) The loss is not available for loss relief except to the extent that it may be carried forward under section 45 of CTA 2010 to be set against profits of the separate video game trade in a subsequent period.

1216Y Use of losses in later periods

‘(1) This section applies to the following accounting periods of the company (“relevant later periods”)—

(a) the completion period, and

(b) any subsequent accounting period during which the separate video game trade continues.

(2) Subsection (3) applies if a loss made in the separate video game trade is carried forward under section 45 of CTA 2010 from a pre-completion period to a relevant later period.

(3) So much (if any) of the loss as is not attributable to video game tax relief (see subsection (6)) may be treated for the purposes of loss relief as if it were a loss made in the period to which it is carried forward.

(4) Subsection (5) applies if in a relevant later period a loss is made in the separate video game trade.

(5) The amount of the loss that may be—

(a) set against other profits of the same or an earlier period under section 37 of CTA 2010, or

(b) surrendered as group relief under Part 5 of that Act,

is restricted to the amount (if any) that is not attributable to video game tax relief (see subsection (6)).

(6) The amount of a loss in any period that is attributable to video game tax relief is calculated by deducting from the total amount of the loss the amount there would have been if there had been no additional deduction under Chapter 3 in that or any earlier period.

(7) This section does not apply to a loss to the extent that it is carried forward or surrendered under section 1216Z.

1216Z Terminal losses

‘(1) This section applies if—

(a) a company (“company A”) is the video game production company in relation to a qualifying video game,

(b) company A ceases to carry on its separate trade in relation to that video game (“trade X”) (see section 1216H), and

(c) if company A had not ceased to carry on trade X, it could have carried forward an amount under section 45 of CTA 2010 to be set against profits of trade X in a later period (“the terminal loss”).

(2) If on cessation of trade X company A—

(a) is the video game production company in relation to another qualifying video game, and

(b) is carrying on its separate trade in relation to that video game (“trade Y”), it may (on making a claim) make an election under subsection (3).

(3) The election is to have the terminal loss (or part of it) treated as if it were a loss brought forward under section 45 of CTA 2010 to be set against the profits of trade Y of the first accounting period beginning after the cessation and so on.

(4) Subsection (5) applies if on cessation of trade X—

(a) there is another company (“company B”) that is the video game production company in relation to a qualifying video game,

(b) company B is carrying on its separate trade in relation to that video game (“trade Z”), and

(c) company B is in the same group as company A for the purposes of Part 5 of CTA 2010 (group relief).

(5) Company A may surrender the terminal loss (or a part of it) to company B.

(6) On the making of a claim by company B the amount surrendered is treated as if it were a loss brought forward by company B under section 45 of CTA 2010 to be set against the profits of trade Z of the first accounting period beginning after the cessation and so on.

(7) The Treasury may, in relation to the surrender of a loss under subsection (5) and the resulting claim under subsection (6), make provision by regulations corresponding, subject to such adaptations or other modifications as appear to them to be appropriate, to that made by Part 8 of Schedule 18 to FA 1998 (company tax returns: claims for group relief).

(8) “Qualifying video game” means a video game in relation to which the conditions for video game tax relief are met (see section 1216O(2)).

Chapter 5

Provisional Entitlement to Relief

1216AA Introduction

‘(1) In this Chapter—

“the company” means the video game production company in relation to a video game,

“the completion period” means the accounting period of the company—

(a) in which the video game is completed, or

(b) if the company does not complete the video game, in which it abandons video game-making activities in relation to it,

“interim accounting period” means any earlier accounting period of the company during which video game-making activities are carried on in relation to the video game,

“the separate video game trade” means the company’s separate trade in relation to the video game (see section 1216H), and

“special video game relief” means—

(a) video game tax relief, or

(b) relief under section 1216Z (transfer of terminal losses from one qualifying video game to another).

(2) The company’s company tax return for the completion period must state that the video game has been completed or that the company has abandoned video game-making activities in relation to it (as the case may be).

1216AB The UK expenditure condition

‘(1) The company is not entitled to special video game relief for an interim accounting period unless—

(a) its company tax return for the period states the amount of planned core expenditure on the video game that is UK expenditure, and

(b) that amount is such as to indicate that the condition in section 1216R (the UK expenditure condition) will be met on completion of the video game.

If those requirements are met, the company is provisionally treated in relation to that period as if that condition was met.

(2) If such a statement is made but it subsequently appears that the condition will not be met on completion of the video game, the company—

(a) is not entitled to special video game relief for any period for which its entitlement depended on such a statement, and

(b) must amend accordingly its company tax return for any such period.

(3) When the video game is completed or the company abandons video game-making activities in relation to it (as the case may be), the company’s company tax return for the completion period must be accompanied by a final statement of the amount of the core expenditure on the video game that is UK expenditure.

(4) If that statement shows that the condition in section 1216R is not met, the company—

(a) is not entitled to special video game relief for any period, and

(b) must amend accordingly its company tax return for any period for which such relief was claimed.

1216AC Video game tax relief on basis that video game is limited-budget video game

‘(1) The company is not entitled to video game tax relief for an interim accounting period on the basis that the video game is a limited-budget video game unless—

(a) its company tax return for the period states the amount of planned core expenditure on the video game, and

(b) that amount is such as to indicate that the condition in section 1216E(2) (definition of “limited-budget video game”) will be met on completion of the video game.

In that case, the video game is provisionally treated in relation to that period as if that condition was met.

(2) If it subsequently appears that the condition will not be met on completion of the video game, the company—

(a) is not entitled to video game tax relief for any period on the basis that the video game is a limited-budget video game, and

(b) must amend accordingly its company tax return for any such period for which such relief has been claimed on that basis.

(3) When the video game is completed or the company abandons video game-making activities in relation to it (as the case may be), the company’s company tax return for the completion period must be accompanied by a final statement of the core expenditure on the video game.

(4) Subsection (5) applies if that statement shows—

(a) that the video game is not a limited-budget video game, or (as the case may be)

(b) that, having regard to the proportion of work on the video game that was completed, the video game would not have been a limited-budget video game had it been completed.

(5) The company—

(a) is not entitled to video game tax relief for any period on the basis that the video game is a limited-budget video game, and

(b) must amend accordingly its company tax return for any period for which such relief was claimed on that basis.

1216AD Time limit for amendments and assessments

Any amendment or assessment necessary to give effect to the provisions of this Chapter may be made despite any limitation on the time within which an amendment or assessment may normally be made.”.

2 In Part 9D of Schedule 18 to the Finance Act 1998, references to film should also include references to video game.’.

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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As the House will be aware, my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) referred on Second Reading to the fact that we want to bring forward a provision on tax relief in order to help to support the video games industry. Although, undoubtedly, new clause 1 would not do that in every respect, I want to put it before the House, so that we can have an in-principle debate about video game industry tax relief. The new clause provides an opportunity for the House to consider enhanced relief based on UK expenditure on video game production.

The new clause suggests that we might consider qualified tax relief for the video game industry, and that it should be based on strict criteria: the video game must be for commercial release; it must be a British video game, assessed on the basis of a points system; and it must meet a 25% UK expenditure threshold, whereby 25% of the total expenditure on the production and development of the video game is UK expenditure on goods or services. We intended to look at that issue, and I would have tabled a much more detailed new clause, but the advice was that we could not. I hope that I have, however, tabled sufficient proposed changes for the Government to consider bringing back at a future date, or supporting the principle of, tax relief for this vital sector in the United Kingdom.

The video games industry is a real success story for British industry, and we look to support it in detail. As I am sure that the Minister is aware, research from TIGA, which represents the gaming industry, shows that over a five-year period games tax relief could create or save about 3,500 graduate-level jobs, secure £450 million-plus in new and saved development expenditure, and generate about £415 million in new and saved tax relief. I hope that it would do so in a way that ensures that the cost to the Treasury amounts to about £192 million over five years, which would be more than paid for by the jobs and investment, and encouragement to the industry, that that would develop in due course.

My hon. Friends the Members for Dundee West (Jim McGovern), for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) have been very vocal in supporting such a tax relief. I hope that the Minister will consider it in principle, so that we can begin to develop a cross-party consensus in due course.

John Redwood Portrait Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
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If it works for this industry, why does it not work for others? Why is the right hon. Gentleman limiting it to this one industry?

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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Our proposal is based on an existing tax relief for the film industry, which has been very successful in helping to generate extra revenue for that industry and keeping production in the United Kingdom. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey) said this on 13 April—I accept that that was in the middle of an election campaign, so we will take these words as being from that particular time:

“We are committed to a tax break along the lines of the video games tax credit. We have been calling for tax breaks for the video game industry for the last three years.”

In the spirit of cross-party co-operation, the hon. Member for Bath (Mr Foster), who then held the esteemed position of Liberal Democrat shadow spokesman for Culture, Media and Sport—the Lib Dem spokesmen are now all subsumed into one entity—said:

“Liberal Democrats support the introduction of a Games Tax Relief. Following consultation on the details, we would implement the Relief as soon as possible.”

At that time, my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey, who is shadow Chief Secretary, the then shadow Culture Minister, who is now a Minister, and the then Liberal Democrat spokesperson supported this proposal, as did I. Since then, however, it has vanished without trace—until today’s debate.

The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) may oppose tax reliefs generally. However, such a relief has been proved to work in the film industry to date. Unfortunately, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in his Budget:

“we will not go ahead with the poorly targeted tax relief for the video games industry.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 175, c. 512.]

I want to test with the Minister whether that is an in-principle opposition to tax relief for the video games industry. If not, is his opposition based on a poorly designed scheme by the previous Labour Government or on poorly targeted suggestions in today’s proposals? Is there, in principle, room for discussion, so that it would be possible for him to bring back, at some point, a tax relief that meets the objectives of the hon. Member for Bath, the Under-Secretary and ourselves, and that would, I hope, help to support the video games industry?

John Redwood Portrait Mr Redwood
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Just to clarify the point, the right hon. Gentleman should know that I believe that lower tax rates result in more revenue. I am delighted to see that he is now a recruit to that cause, but I suggest that he should not limit it to one industry.

--- Later in debate ---
Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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We are happy to consider on a case-by-case basis whether tax relief helps to generate employment and earn business and crucially—I think that this is the right hon. Gentleman’s point—to maintain that business in the United Kingdom rather than transferring it overseas. The film tax credit has proved that that can be the case, and I suggest in the new clause that we consider it for the video games industry.

Jim McGovern Portrait Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)
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My right hon. Friend mentioned the British film industry. Is he aware that figures provided by TIGA, which represents the computer games industry, suggest that the cost of a tax break for computer games would be £55 million, whereas the film industry already gets a £110 million break, even though the revenue generated by both is much the same?

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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Indeed, and TIGA—my hon. Friend says “tiger”; I say “teega”, but we both mean the same thing—has estimated that we can make savings to the Treasury by investing in a tax relief up front and keeping jobs in this country. That is the crucial point.

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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I know that the industry is important to Scotland, so following my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee West, I give way to the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie).

Stewart Hosie Portrait Stewart Hosie
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The right hon. Gentleman was right to mention the Chancellor’s argument that the proposed tax break was poorly targeted, but he will be aware of the evidence given to the Scottish Affairs Committee by Edward Troup of the Revenue. He said:

“I am not sure I would say it was poorly targeted. It was targeted at the video games industry…it was perfectly designable if we had continued with it”,

and so on and so forth. Does not that experience from the coal face, from inside the Revenue, directly contradict the argument that the Government used to do away with the plan?

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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The hon. Gentleman has effectively read out the next section of my speech. I have indeed examined what was said in the Scottish Affairs Committee. The Under-Secretary said at the same meeting on 20 October:

“It may be that we can revisit a video games tax break in the future.”

Was he speaking for the Department of Culture, Media and Sport or for the Treasury? I presume that the Chancellor was speaking for the Treasury in ruling out the idea, but three months later his Minister in the DCMS said that we should consider it in future.

I do not necessarily wish to press the new clause to a Division, but I have tabled it so that the Exchequer Secretary can clarify whether, in the next 12 months or two years, he can meet the objectives that my hon. Friends the Members for Dundee West, for West Bromwich East and for Liverpool, Wavertree, and the hon. Member for Dundee East, have championed so strongly.

Lord Watson of Wyre Forest Portrait Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
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The important point about the new clause is the unique position of the video games industry. It has the potential for explosive growth and to create far more high-level, highly paid, highly skilled jobs in the UK. Yet its competitors, with a fiendish interpretation of international competition rules, are picking off the very best designers and developers from UK production shops one by one. The industry worked long and hard with the Treasury to build a robust model for a specific rate to allow the industry to grow over the coming years. That is why hon. Members are so concerned—many jobs are at risk if the new clause is not accepted.

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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My hon. Friend makes the important point that those are high-skilled, highly technical jobs that will bring investment to this country. They are intellectual capacity jobs that are helping to grow the areas of our international markets that we need to grow.

To follow up on what the hon. Member for Dundee East said, Edward Troup, the managing director of budget, tax and welfare at the Treasury, said to the Scottish Affairs Committee:

“There would be issues; there would be boundary issues,”

but crucially, he continued, “but it would work.” I am not trying to make political capital out of the matter, but if it is proved that the tax break would work—meaning that it can be applied, can deliver, will keep jobs in this country, will grow business and will help resources be reinvested in the British economy—will the Exchequer Secretary be willing to accept the principle and introduce an appropriate clause in some future Finance Bill?

If it is found that the tax break would work but the Exchequer Secretary will not introduce it, I will have to presume that he is not interested in doing so, rather than that he is concerned about its applicability and workability. If so, he is on an entirely different page from the one that the Under-Secretary was on in April, that the Chancellor was on before the general election and that the hon. Member for Bath, who is part of the coalition, was on at that time.

Charlie Elphicke Portrait Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
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The right hon. Gentleman makes a perennial point that shadow Ministers make, to which actual Ministers presumably perennially say no. May I point out to him the table in proposed new section 1216Q of the Corporation Tax Act 2009, in new schedule 2? It mentions points being given for at least 50% of a game’s production budget being incurred in the UK, and proposed new section 1216R states what the percentage of UK expenditure has to be. Will he confirm that that does not conflict with any European law provision?

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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I have taken advice in drafting the new clause, and my advice is that it is workable and applicable, although I have had to leave out certain aspects. My purpose is not to force this particular model on the Treasury, but to use the new clause as a debating point, so that the Treasury can respond to the principle and decide whether this is a good proposal that will help matters, bring investment back to the United Kingdom and be supportive. I would, potentially, be happy to withdraw the new clause at the end of the debate, and I am happy to listen to what the Minister says, but I want to get to the nub of the issue.

The Under-Secretary, the hon. Members for Bath and for Dundee East, who speaks for the Scottish National party, my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee West and Labour Front Benchers all think that some form of games tax relief to help maintain the industry in the United Kingdom would be a good thing. All I want today is for the Minister to say, “Yes, I agree with that general principle. Over a period of time, I will look at how we make this proposal workable and how we bring it back in a future Budget or Finance Bill.” Indeed, he could say today that he is happy with the proposals and that the Government will look at them again in the near future in whatever format they choose. It is important to get that on the table.

Dr Richard Wilson, TIGA’s chief executive, has set out his view that we will potentially lose jobs. He said that

“the UK is losing out on jobs and investment because of the absence of Games Tax Relief.

High-skilled jobs could be created in Manchester and Warrington. Instead they are being created in Montreal.”

He says that that is particularly because our

“key competitors, particularly Canada, have tax breaks for games production. The UK does not.”

Others who comment on these matters, such as Danny Bilson, THQ’s vice-president for core game brands, has said:

“The talent in the UK is extraordinary...We have a studio up in Warrington that’s an excellent studio…but I’m sorry, it’s…about money at the end of the day.”

We need to ensure that we have the support for such things. That is the reality of the market. World-leading publishers recognise that we have an asset, which it has taken years to build up and which is worth hundreds of millions of pounds, but it will go abroad if we do not compete on the same level as our Canadian colleagues. In France, there is a 20% tax reduction for video games, and tax provisions in Canada have driven up staff numbers by 43%, but in the United Kingdom we have seen the head count start to decline over the past few years.

I do not want to go into great detail or to take up the House’s time. I simply want to tell the Minister that there is real scope for these proposals. There is scope to develop the UK film tax credit model and to use it for the UK video game tax model. We can ensure that we help to grow the sector, and we can meet the commitments that colleagues made during the general election campaign. I tabled the new clause so that we could hear whether the Minister is still of the view that there is no scope for such proposals or whether he could look at the issue in detail and bring back proposals in due course. I commend the new clause to the House.

Mark Field Portrait Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)
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The video games industry is very important. Its spiritual home is, in part, in my constituency, in places such so Soho and Covent Garden—

--- Later in debate ---
David Gauke Portrait Mr Gauke
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I am grateful for that invitation. I am sure it will be small comfort to the hon. Gentleman, but I will accept the pronunciation “tiger” and concede that point. I am not sure that it would be terribly helpful if we were all in the same room to discuss these particular numbers. As I say, we are not convinced by the case made on these numbers. Of course, Members with constituencies that have a concentration of video game companies will want to make that case, but it is right for the Government to look at the economy as a whole and to bring forward policies that benefit all parts of the country and all sectors, including the video game sector. As I said in the meetings I have had with the hon. Member for Dundee West, there is no sense in which the Government are in any way anti-video games or think it is an antisocial issue or anything like that. It is a question of economic efficiency and where we believe the role of Government can be best used—and that is in providing a favourable climate for businesses.

I appreciate that the new clause and new schedule proposed by the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) are probing measures, but I would like to touch on a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke). This relief is targeted at a specific sector and it would be considered to be state aid; as such, it would require notification to and approval from the European Commission. The new clause and new schedule would be effective from Royal Assent. As the Government would not be able to secure approval in such a short period, the provisions would create an illegal state aid. As I said, I understand that the amending provisions are probing, but the same issue applies to the previous Government’s proposals—and they, too, would have required state aid approval, which is worth putting on the record.

The new clause would create unjustified distortion and complexity in the corporate tax system. We do not think that such an intervention would represent good value for money for the Exchequer or be conducive to providing a simple and competitive tax system. The UK needs a tax system that supports all businesses, because it is the private sector across the board that will drive the recovery. I therefore ask the right hon. Gentleman to withdraw the new clause and new schedule.

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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I am grateful for the Minister’s clarification of the Government’s response. If we take into account the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), it is clear that the Government are not in favour of the principle of this type of tax relief rather than the practicalities of the suggestions in the amending provisions. I am disappointed about that. I remind the Minister again of what the Under-Secretary said. When asked during the election campaign whether the Conservative party was in favour of a games development tax break, he answered:

“emphatically, 100 per cent in support for game tax breaks. No ifs, no buts.”

That does not appear to be the Government’s position today, which disappoints me.

Perhaps at this point I should declare that PricewaterhouseCoopers helped me to draw up the new clause. I shall register that in due course.

--- Later in debate ---
Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr Hanson
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The Labour party predominantly supports the Bill. It had its genesis under the previous Labour Government when my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) brought forward many of its measures. We give the Bill a warm reception, although we scrutinised it in Committee, as was our duty, as the Opposition.

I was going to give the Minister a much warmer welcome than I might now do, but he raised several points that strayed beyond the Bill, even though they are important for the House to consider. There is a clear difference between the Government and the Opposition on public spending and taxation regimes over the next few years. Even during today’s consideration of the Bill, we saw the clear differences between us on child benefit, taxation on banks and video game tax relief. We will return to such important issues in due course. They will frame the economic debate between the Government and the Opposition over the next 12 to 18 months, and we will watch closely how the backdrop to the Bill meets the needs of my constituents and those of my right hon. and hon. Friends in relation to employment, prosperity, taxation and the economic health of the United Kingdom, because we remain of the view that the Government are cutting too far, too fast, and that they will therefore damage the economy. However, let us put those matters to one side because they are not in the Bill.

As I said, my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West developed many of the policies in the Bill. The uncontroversial nature of the Bill is attested by the fact that there were only two Divisions in Committee. One was on the sittings motion, following a disagreement about a clash of business in Committee and on the Floor of the House—as a matter of good practice, we should try to avoid that in future. The other Division was on a matter of more significant principle: the definition of “incapacitated person”. We had a rerun of that debate today.

We support many of the detailed provisions in this technical Bill. It includes important measures on foster care relief and relief for adopters. It contains provisions to simplify value added tax and to address film tax credit. As the Minister said, it includes important measures to tackle the smuggling of cigarettes through its consideration of taxation regimes for long cigarettes. We support those measures, which were the subject of discussion in Committee. The Bill puts in place important and welcome green allowances as a kick-start for zero-emission goods vehicles. When we discussed those measures in Committee, there was broad support for their implementation.

The Bill gives welcome support for asbestos-related trusts through taxation measures, including on capital gains tax. After we tested the Minister on those measures, we reached the conclusion that they were worthy of general support. We also support the clarification in the Bill on landfill tax.

Try as I might in Committee, I could not find much in the Bill with which to disagree. However, our sittings allowed us to tease out the Government’s thinking on a range of issues and to reflect the concerns of a number of outside bodies about the implementation of policy, rather than the policy itself.

As hon. Members can see, Labour Members are so content with the Bill—and have such trust and faith in my ability—that they have left it to me to bring our proceedings on it to a close. Although we welcome the Bill, we will consider real differences between us regarding the economy of the United Kingdom on future days, and I look forward to those debates in due course.