Seaborne Freight

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Monday 11th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. I have heard nothing from Labour bar attempts to disrupt the Brexit process. There has been no support for contingency planning or for a deal. All Labour Members seem to want to do is to act against the national interest, which is typical of the Labour party today. Its Members are more interested in themselves than in the country.

As for the other two contracts, they are proceeding according to plan. The routes will be ready, but I hope that they will not be needed, because I hope that we will leave the European Union with a deal. However, we must be ready, and we will be ready.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State spent a great deal of time maligning the RMT union, which had simply been asking that Ministers ensure that the Brexit ferry contract ships are crewed by British seafarers on decent pay and terms and conditions negotiated through the recognised trade unions. Can the Secretary of State answer a straight question? In answer to the previous urgent question, he talked about the advantages of developing a facility at Ramsgate, so will he confirm whether Ramsgate will be now be used at all in the event of a no-deal Brexit?

[Chris Grayling]

I believe in competition, so I would like Ramsgate to operate a ferry service whether there is a no-deal Brexit or not, and I know that the leader of Thanet District Council would like to see the same. It is a good port that has played an important role in the past. However, we will continue to work with the council not only to secure the short-term needs of the port of Ramsgate, but to help it promote the port as a viable option for the future.

Seaborne Freight

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

It is my belief that Operation Brock will prevent the closure of the M20. That is my prime concern—what happened in 2015 should not be repeated. I think there is sufficient capacity to ensure that that will not take place. We have completed the infrastructure works that are necessary on the motorways to ensure that the flow in both directions can continue, and we are now doing the detailed testing to understand flows of traffic and how to manage them to make sure that we do not see the kind of disruption we saw in 2015. I am hopeful that we will move quickly from the consultations we are having now to being able to decide a permanent location and get the thing dealt with once and for all.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

Any members of the public watching this debate will be absolutely amazed. They will think it is bizarre that we have a Transport Secretary who signs a shipping contract with a shipping company with no ships. Given that the company is going to hire in ferries, does he have any idea what plans it has to crew its ferries and whether UK crews would be used?

[Chris Grayling]

There is a complete lack of understanding of business models on the Opposition Benches. Opposition Members should understand that when they go on holiday next summer there is a fair chance they will be flying with an airline that owns no planes. The reality is that transport operators do not always own their own assets; they contract or charter them in and they operate the service. I do not think that Opposition Members understand that. As to the crewing of the ships, that is a matter for the company itself.

Rail Timetabling

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Monday 4th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The work on Dawlish has already started, as the hon. Gentleman knows. In terms of the infrastructure period that is about to start, delivering that work is, in my view, the most important capital project in the country. The most important priority on my desk now is self-evidently to get this sorted.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

My constituents are also experiencing their share of misery. The hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) said that trains serving her constituency had four carriages, but most of the trains serving mine only have two carriages to begin with, so they are already overcrowded even before any cancellations. It is clearly a failure of planning and co-ordination and a lack of integration. Will the Secretary of State or his successor give an assurance to the travelling public that a similar fiasco will not occur with the next timetable changes in December?

[Chris Grayling]

We are working extremely hard to make sure that this does not happen again. We have to deal with the short-term problem. We also have to make sure that this is not repeated with the December timetable change or future timetable changes. Where major investment leads to a major change in services, we cannot have a situation where that causes chaos on the network again.

Transport Secretary: East Coast Franchise

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Any franchise that runs its full term is expected to pay the full premiums, but when National Express went under and there was a further £1.5 billion of premiums to pay, that money continued to be paid by the new operator, in the same way that the premiums that we are expecting will continue to be paid by the operator in this instance. This is my point: the hon. Gentleman does not understand how the finances of the railways work, and that is why the Labour party is so unfit to be in opposition, let alone to govern.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

rose—

[Lilian Greenwood]

rose—

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way first to the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) and later to the Chairman of the Transport Committee.

[Grahame Morris]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State. I hope that he will clear up that point about the last Labour Government and National Express. As a member of the Transport Committee, I heard a former Transport Secretary, Lord Adonis, explain that sanctions had been applied and that that particular operator was not permitted to bid for other franchises, which was a significant sanction.

[Chris Grayling]

If I am not mistaken, Lord Adonis actually accepted before the Select Committee that that did not happen. He thought that standing up in Parliament and saying that there would be a ban meant that there actually was one. I assure the hon. Gentleman that my Department looked very carefully at this and no evidence of any ban has been found. Moreover, a report from the National Audit Office stated that it had found no such evidence.

East Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I give my hon. Friend an assurance that the Azuma trains will be joining the network later this year. They will deliver a fantastic new service for passengers, and they will indeed be LNER Azuma trains instead.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State said that he was not aware of any problems with other franchises. Perhaps he was not in the House during Prime Minister’s questions, when problems with the Northern franchise were identified. Private companies are walking away from franchise bids in Wales and the east midlands. Is this not clear evidence that the rail franchising model is broken, and that the answer is a truly integrated railway under public ownership?

[Chris Grayling]

First, the number of firms asking for passports to apply for franchises is actually increasing, not decreasing. As I keep explaining to Opposition Members—they are causing as much trouble as they can for the Government over the European Union, instead of working together in the interests of this country—what they are proposing is illegal under European law.

Rail Franchising

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

May I begin with the one thing on which we agree this afternoon? I thank the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) for his generous comments about my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), who has been a great servant of my Department and other Departments for a very long period. He has been on the Front Bench for 19 years, in government and in opposition. That is an epic career, and we all very much appreciate the work that he has done, particularly on legislation and on building bilateral discussions and so on, so I pay tribute to him for all that he did. I am grateful for the warm words from the hon. Member for Middlesbrough.

Apart from that, we have just heard about 25 minutes of complete nonsense from the Opposition. I suspect that you would say it would be unparliamentary of me to call them hypocritical, Madam Deputy Speaker, so I will not do so, but I have no doubt that others in the know will be astonished by the gall with which they simply forget their actions in government; with which they pretend that their ideas will not cost a penny—I keep hearing that, but it is absolutely untrue—and with which they make inaccurate claims based on a lack of facts about subjects they appear not to understand.

Let me set out why the Opposition’s ideas do not stack up and why their positions do not add up.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

rose—

[Chris Grayling]

I will make some progress and then take interventions.

I shall also set out why the Opposition’s policies make no sense for the travelling public and why their pronouncements on the east coast main line are wrong. I shall also explain why it is this Government who have set about the task of modernising and upgrading our railways—the biggest programme of investment since the steam age—after 13 years of a Labour Government who quite simply failed to deliver the infrastructure improvements that this country needed. It has taken Conservatives to begin to change that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

I will take one more intervention and then make some progress.

[Grahame Morris]

It is an interesting concept that the travelling public have got a good deal that is paid for by the private train operating companies. I just checked what it would cost me if I left the House of Commons and went to Durham now. It would cost me £153 standard class—or £236 first class, but of course we are not allowed to do that. A similar journey at the same time of day from Frankfurt to Munich in Germany would cost £39 and tuppence. How is it that our travelling public are getting a good deal from this fragmented privatised system?

[Chris Grayling]

In this country, under Governments of both persuasions, we have taken decisions about the right balance between the cost of the railways being borne by those who use the railways and those who do not. Yes, the hon. Gentleman may be quoting walk -up fares, but he can go and buy an advance ticket for the east coast route at a fraction of the cost that he described.

Rail Update

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I know that the hon. Gentleman is after not just the hors d’oeuvre but a second course. That second course will probably be the Crewe hub, on which we are working carefully at the moment, but I thought that he at least deserved an appetiser. I buy the argument that the present situation as trains head north from Wrexham is not right, and I am therefore delighted that the Chancellor agreed to fund the development work for that scheme.

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

I give the Transport Secretary credit for acknowledging the failure on at least two occasions of the private franchise running the east coast main line. My recollection is that when it was operated by the UK state-owned Directly Operated Railways it generated more than £100 million in profit for the Treasury, which could be used for vital public services. What assessment has he made of the additional costs of the private-public sector partnership, and would it not be better to use the profits to extend the Tyne and Wear Metro into Easington rather than swelling the coffers of privately operated train companies, often German, Dutch and Spanish Government-owned?

[Chris Grayling]

There is a curious conundrum in this. We hear so much uncertainty from Labour about what they think about Brexit: they seem to want to stay in the single market and continue to operate in the traditional way, but they do not want to work with train companies from other countries. That is a bit illogical.

I am delighted that we as a Government are finally investing—in a way that the hon. Gentleman’s party did not—in rail in the north-east. The investment in trains on the Metro and the plans to extend it are the right things to do to help his constituency and the economy of the north-east, and I am very proud to be able to deliver them. It is also worth saying that the private sector franchise on the east coast main line has been contributing more to the Treasury than the public sector one did.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Thursday 21st April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman’s constituent can have been sanctioned for three years only if he has turned down three reasonable job offers and so has basically refused to work. In a society that is compassionate but believes that people should get back to work, that is simply unacceptable. On food banks, there are some fantastic projects around the country linked to churches, where people are doing really good work in our community. It is worth saying that the use of food banks in this country is much lower than in other countries, such as Germany. However, I pay tribute to those who work on behalf of people going through hiccups in their lives, and it is right and proper that we have a strong voluntary sector that does that.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

May we have a debate about the time it is taking the Department for Work and Pensions to determine whether to include Dupuytren’s contracture on the list of prescribed diseases covered by industrial injuries disablement benefit? The Industrial Injuries Advisory Council gave the Department its recommendation on 14 May 2014—nearly two years ago—and a Minister said in correspondence that a decision would be forthcoming within a year. It is now April 2016. Will the Leader of the House advise that Minister that there are only 12 months in a year, and can he see whether he can speed up the decision to give the necessary support to the former miners in my constituency?

[Chris Grayling]

I will happily give a nudge to the new Secretary of State on that subject. I am sure he will not want to miss a promise made. [Interruption.]

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Thursday 14th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely understand the hon. Lady’s concern. I am not personally in favour of women who seek an abortion being punished for doing so, but, of course, this is a devolved matter. We have taken a conscious decision to pass that matter into the hands of the Northern Ireland Assembly, and I am afraid that we cannot easily have it both ways. We cannot say that it is the Assembly’s decision, but that if we do not like that decision we will start to debate the issue ourselves. I agree with the hon. Lady, and I think we should make the sort of statements that she and I have just made, but ultimately this is a matter for the Northern Ireland Assembly.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House consider having a statement or debate in Government time on the future of supported and specialist housing provision? It was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton (Liz McInnes) a few moments ago and in PMQs yesterday. We had a debate in Westminster Hall on Tuesday at which a number of Opposition Members were in attendance. It is an important issue. It is important for the victims of domestic violence, for veterans, for elderly people, for people with learning disabilities and for people with mental health issues. There is a huge question mark hanging over the viability of specialist and supported housing, so if the Minister could make a statement or we could have a debate it would be very helpful.

[Chris Grayling]

I understand the importance of such housing. I visited a refuge in Gloucestershire a couple of weeks ago and I understand the nature of the challenge. We listened carefully to the representations made when the issue was debated in the House a few weeks ago, but I will make sure that the relevant Ministers are aware of the concerns that the hon. Gentleman raises. As we have extensive opportunities over the next month to debate such issues, perhaps he might like to have a discussion with the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee and ask that Committee to table a debate on the subject.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Thursday 5th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and I congratulate the band on its centenary. There are some great bands in this country, as we said last week, and we celebrate the work done in local communities, the musical groups and the local bands that add such value to this country. I know that even in these difficult financial times local authorities and grant-giving bodies will do their best to sustain those bands.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on business rates, and specifically the time it takes for the Valuation Office Agency to consider appeals? A brewing business in my constituency has been waiting for 10 months. We need a debate so that Ministers can exert some pressure on the Valuation Office Agency to support small and medium-sized enterprises to get these cases heard in a timely manner.

[Chris Grayling]

Clearly, we do not want any barriers to businesses operating successfully in this country. We are a Government who have pursued a deregulation agenda, and where problems arise we will seek to address them. As I have said, next Tuesday is business questions, so I hope the hon. Gentleman will take advantage of that opportunity to ensure that Ministers in the Department are made well aware of the concerns he is raising.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Thursday 25th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I note the welcome nods from Scottish National party Members. I am glad that the First Minister has clarified the situation this morning in no uncertain terms. I think that we, on both sides of this House and in all parts of the United Kingdom, should be absolutely proud of our monarch. We value her and are amazingly grateful for everything she has done for us. The fact that she is in Germany today, representing this country again, is an example of how well served we are by her and by our royal family.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House has announced that we will have a debate next Thursday on international affairs in Government time. May I suggest that the House should have the opportunity to discuss some domestic issues, notably the proposed £200 million cut in public health budgets, £3.6 million of which is to be cut from Durham County Council in my area? It flies in the face of all the evidence and expert opinion, will damage preventive healthcare and is extremely short term. Members from all across the country would like the opportunity to discuss it.

[Chris Grayling]

I simply remind the hon. Gentleman that we, both in coalition and in Government, have continued to increase funding for healthcare, somewhat against the wishes of the shadow Health Secretary, who argued that we should reduce funding for healthcare and that it would be irresponsible to continue to increase it in the way we have. I am very happy with our record.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Tuesday 18th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

15. What progress he has made on his plans for changes to the probation service.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

We are making good progress with our transforming rehabilitation reforms, which will realign current probation structures to address the gap that sees 50,000 short-sentenced prisoners released on to the streets each year with little support. The new structures will come into effect on 1 June. The process of reallocating staff to those new structures is now complete.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

We have a strong slate of potential bidders in every part of the country, with a good mix of private and voluntary sector expertise and some attractive partnerships that can deliver real results for us. We will see later in the summer who emerges successfully from the bidding process, but I am completely confident that we have a strong candidate in every part of the country.

[Grahame M. Morris]

The Minister accuses us of looking backwards, but his transforming of rehabilitation services programme is controversial and fraught with difficulties. Does he agree with his permanent secretary, Ursula Brennan, who told the Public Accounts Committee last week that if the Ministry of Justice was not ready to take the next steps, it would not do so—or would he press on regardless?

[Chris Grayling]

It is precisely because we are confident in the process that we are moving to the next stage. We will take it a step at a time, and we will always take steps to address issues of public safety. The Opposition, having identified the problem of offenders going without supervision, and having legislated to deal with it while in government and then done nothing about it, are now attacking us for wanting to do something about it. They have no ideas themselves.

Probation Service

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Wednesday 30th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Let me address the issue of the risk register. The previous Government produced risk registers, but they never published them. A risk register is an internal working document designed to tell the team working on a project the steps that they need to take to ensure that untoward things do not happen. One of the things that we are doing in planning this project is, of course, aiming to deliver a transition that is as seamless as possible and protect the public. The difference this will make is to provide supervision for those people who are walking the streets and committing crimes, leading to more victims of crime today. That is what these reforms are all about.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

If the Minister is interested in providing a quality service, why have probation trusts been forbidden to bid to run the new community rehabilitation companies? The trusts have the expertise.

[Chris Grayling]

Our probation staff are not prohibited from bidding. We have teams of staff who are preparing mutual bids, some of which will, I hope, be successful. They are receiving help from the Cabinet Office to do so, and we are hoping to see members of our current team take this opportunity, win contracts, and go on to make a real difference.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

I would like briefly to update the House on our proposed changes to the regime in our prisons. I think that the public rightly expect that prisons should be a place of punishment and rehabilitation. For too long prisoners have been handed privileges such as in-cell television, DVDs and association time as a reward for simply keeping out of trouble. That is not just unfair at a time when the rest of the country is doing without; it is a shamefully wasted opportunity. That is why we have announced a major overhaul of our incentives and earned privileges schemes in prisons. We want to see prisoners earning their privileges by working hard to turn their lives around. We have banned certificate-18 DVDs, subscription TV will be removed by the summer, prisoners will in future have a longer working day, and if they behave badly or do not engage with rehabilitation activities they will be stripped of their privileges. That is designed to improve confidence in our prison regime and to encourage positive rehabilitation activities within our prisons.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I would like to ask the Secretary of State about his plans to privatise the probation service. Following the Olympics security debacle, why does he believe that companies such as G4S are suitable providers to manage low and medium-risk offenders, including prolific burglars, drug-users and those convicted for domestic violence, if they could not manage Olympic security? How will he guarantee public safety?

[Chris Grayling]

What I want for our probation service is the best of the public, private and voluntary sectors: the public sector has high-quality skills in managing the risk of harm; the private sector can deliver a more efficient system, so that we can release funds to support those offenders who get no support at the moment; and the voluntary sector has the kind of mentoring skills we so desperately need to help people turn their lives around.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I very much agree with that, and, of course, the measures in the Crime and Courts Bill open the door to our doing that for the first time. I wish to see us recover funds from those who can afford to pay for their own defence.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

Last week I launched the “legal services on the international stage” action plan. It sets out the immense contribution Britain’s legal services sector can make both to reinvigorate our economy and to ensure that Britain remains ahead in the global race. Legal services employ 340,000 people nationwide, and contribute over £20 billion to the UK economy. Beyond London, the north-west, Scotland and Wales are also emerging as centres of excellence. The Government want to encourage and export Britain’s leadership in this industry. The action plan we have published sets out how we intend to do that. It requires opening up legal markets abroad and selling the benefits of British law firms and the English legal system, as well as championing our offer to overseas legal students. I am sure the House will want to back our industry and the efforts both my Department and UK Trade & Investment are making to help our businesses spread our footprint around the world.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I thank the Justice Secretary for his reply, but may I draw his attention to the Public Accounts Committee’s damning report on the Ministry of Justice’s handling of the court translators contract? Again it is a case of being penny wise and pound foolish. Two hundred cases in England and Wales had to be cancelled, costing the public purse millions of pounds. Experienced and trained translators are still refusing to work with Capita, which was awarded the contract. Will the Minister, as part of his action plan, rescue our justice service and abandon this failed contract?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Tuesday 13th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I would just like to say a few words about the Abu Qatada case. I strongly support the comments that the Home Secretary made yesterday, and would indicate to the House that my Department will do everything it can to support the Home Office in its efforts to get Abu Qatada deported. All of us believe that the law should not operate in this way, and this case underlines my view that there is a real need for major changes to the way in which the European human rights framework operates.

[Grahame M. Morris]

May I refer the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant) back to the answer she gave a few moments ago in response to the hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat)? Given the importance of this to victims of workplace accidents and industrial diseases, will the Minister meet a small delegation of Labour MPs to receive representations on the implications of the proposal to amend the ceiling on small claims compensation?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am sure we were all pleased to see the small fall in youth unemployment announced last week, but there is a long way to go in tackling what is a big challenge for this country. I hope that the employers of Thanet will respond to the wage subsidies in the youth contract by giving young unemployed British people their first step on to the ladder of employment. That is what we all want to happen.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

T6. We have heard a lot of talk from the Government about creating an information revolution in Whitehall, but with the Secretary of State’s Department leading a charge by outsourcing many of its responsibilities, will the same measures of transparency apply to private sector companies such as A4e and Atos as currently apply to public sector bodies?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

11. What recent progress he has made on the introduction of the workfare scheme.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chris Grayling)]

We do not operate a workfare scheme. I think the hon. Gentleman might be referring to mandatory activity; in which case, I can confirm that we have schemes in place as part of people’s job search. They include mandatory work activity and the community action programme, which is being tested as part of supporting the very long-term unemployed.

[Grahame M. Morris]

May I press the Minister to give a fuller answer to the question that my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) asked a little earlier? Profits at Poundland soared by 34% in 2011, with people on workfare forced to work for free in Poundland stores and being told at the beginning of their placement that there is no prospect of permanent employment, while they carry out the same duties as paid employees. Who is the real beneficiary of workfare: the taxpayer or the shareholder?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman is telling a lot of complete nonsense to the House. The reality is that Poundland is one of many major retailers taking part in our work experience scheme, which is providing young people who are out of work with their first opportunity to get into the workplace so that they can show a potential employer what they can do. More than 50% of young people who go through the scheme move quickly into employment afterwards, including, in some places, with Poundland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Monday 28th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

The Department itself recognises that many people will simply flow through the Government’s Work programme without securing a proper job at the end of it. How many people does the Minister estimate will end up on his mandatory workfare placement scheme after the Work programme? Does he have an estimate of the numbers?

[Chris Grayling]

The whole point about the Work programme is that it is uncapped; we have not set specific targets for it. The community action programme, which was announced a couple of weeks ago, is designed to help those who do not find a role through the Work programme. I would be delighted if it achieves 100% outcomes, but it probably will not. We have been determined to ensure that we do not simply send those who do not find a job in the first two years back home so that they end up sitting on benefits doing nothing. They will be asked to take part in a constructive and positive programme of useful work in our community that will, I hope, build their skills and give them a better opportunity to go back into the process, and to get a job the second time around.

Jarrow Crusade (75th Anniversary)

Debate between Lord Grayling and Grahame Morris

Monday 31st October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chris Grayling)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Jarrow (Mr Hepburn) for his success in securing the debate and for the eloquent way in which he has referred to what was undoubtedly an important moment in the history of this country. Looking back over the course of the past 150 to 200 years, there have been different groups of individuals and different moments at which the social history of this country has been changed—events such as the actions of the Tolpuddle martyrs and the rise of the Chartist movement. I would classify the Jarrow marchers as being very much part of that tradition. They undoubtedly had an impact on the way that this country thinks. It may not have been an immediate impact, but it has been lasting. It put the hon. Gentleman’s town on the map internationally as a place from which people rightly draw inspiration. I pay tribute to him and to the people of Jarrow on the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the march.

Of course, the hon. Gentleman is right to say that we live in a different world today. Although we live in tough times, the stark, bleak environment in which many of those people lived is not the world in which people live today. We have a welfare state that we all agree is an essential part of providing a safety net for those who fall on tough times, including those who lose their jobs. I absolutely agree with him that it is a tough thing, in any circumstances, to lose one’s job. Unemployment is a difficult process for any individual to go through.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that, as in the 1930s, we need a realistic plan for jobs and growth?

[Chris Grayling]

We face a different challenge from that of the 1930s, but I accept that we need a plan for jobs and growth. If the hon. Gentleman will give me a moment to continue my remarks, I will go on to talk about what we are doing about jobs and growth.

I very much accept the principle that unemployment represents a real challenge and difficulty for individuals. It is, and rightly should be, at the top of the agenda of any Government at any time, but particularly at a time such as this when we are feeling the chill winds of a very difficult international economic situation and dealing with some of the biggest financial challenges seen in the peacetime history of this country. At the same time, we must not and will not forget the real human impact of unemployment, and we will do everything we can to tackle it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman means by it being a third of what it used to be, because this is a new initiative. We are targeting money specifically at investment in manufacturing and research and development. I must say that some of the examples from the regional development agencies were pretty poor. I have seen examples from the north-west of misjudged investments and strategies. I believe that targeting grant support specifically on projects that will create jobs in the short term in the north-east and elsewhere is the right thing to do.

[Grahame M. Morris]

rose—

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way one more time and then I must make some progress.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I must congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow (Mr Hepburn) on securing this important debate. There are important parallels with what is happening today. Is it not a travesty that we do not, in effect, have a regional policy? The abolition of RDAs has taken us back not to the 1980s, but to the 1960s. The regional growth fund is a complete misnomer because any part of the United Kingdom, even wealthy areas in the south and south-east, can bid for its support. We do not have regional policy now, so we are left to the vagaries of God and good nature.

[Chris Grayling]

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman, because I think that the creation of the local enterprise partnerships gives a much better and more localised focus to economic developments. It avoids the situation whereby, for example, a regional development agency in the north-west is trying to form a judgment on whether it should focus on the two great cities of Liverpool and Manchester, rather than having the decisions about those cities taken in Greater Manchester and on Merseyside. A localised focus for regional development is the right approach.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

I will just make a bit of progress and then I will give way.

The hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) asked me about the economic strategy and he made a fair point. In my view, we have to focus on jobs, growth and high-quality back-to-work support for the unemployed. I appreciate that this is a point of difference between us, but it is my view that a central part of rebuilding economic prosperity in this country is dealing with the deficit that Labour Members left behind. The reason why I say that is straightforward: if we were not dealing with the deficit and if we were not seen to be bringing our public finances under control—

[Grahame M. Morris]

rose—

[Chris Grayling]

Let me finish. If we were not doing those things, we would be facing the economic uncertainties that we see right now in other European countries. Does anybody seriously believe that if we were in that economic position, we would be seeing private sector organisations willing to invest and create jobs? Private sector jobs have been created in this country over the past 12 months. Had we not set about dealing with the deficit, unemployment today would be higher, not lower.

[Chris Grayling]

Obviously, the hon. Gentleman and I are not going to agree on that point, but he simply has to look around at the rest of Europe to see the consequences of over-borrowing, unsustainable debt and large budget deficits. This Government have set about the task of dealing with that problem, which is the path to economic stability.

Alongside that, we of course need measures that are designed to support the growth of business. That is why we have cut corporation tax and why we are providing additional incentives through corporation tax for investment in intellectual property. It is also why we have modernised and reintroduced the enterprise zone model in a number of places in the north-east, which is a further positive step for the area. We are seeking to deregulate in areas such as health and safety and employment law not because we want the wrong thing for employees in this country, but because the evidence is that a more flexible labour market is a better way of creating an environment in which jobs are created.

[Grahame M. Morris]

The message from Government Members is that this economic crisis is built on debt, but the point of view of some of us is that the debt crisis results from a financial crash that was not made here in Britain. However, whether the economic crisis is because of famine, war, debt, corruption or ineptitude, surely we require some kind of growth strategy. Your argument that we cannot possibly get out of the debt crisis by incurring more debt simply does not hold water. Whatever the cause, we must get growths and jobs, especially in my area.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I would just point out that I am not offering any argument at all.