Antarctic Bill

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Friday 18th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Neil Carmichael]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. Yes, I have had such discussions, and I was quite surprised to find out just how far some other countries have gone. The Netherlands provides a good example. It is already further on than we are in taking legislative action on Antarctica. I met a Netherlands member of Parliament during the climate change conference in Doha, and I was impressed with the level of legislative detail the country had gone into in respect of Antarctica. I have talked, too, to representatives of Chile and noted their interest in carrying out a similar policy. I am pleased to have an opportunity to confirm that there is a memorandum of understanding between Chile and the UK on Antarctica matters. That paves the way for more international co-operation and demonstrates that nation states are taking the issue seriously.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman rises, let me remind everyone that we are debating new clause 1. We are not debating the generality of the Bill, and we have a Third Reading debate to follow.

[Bob Stewart]

I hope what I am about to say will be about new clause 1, and it will be very quick. Is it not for the United Nations to co-ordinate international action?

[Neil Carmichael]

rose—

Attacks on Civilians (Burma)

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Ethnic reconciliation is a key factor in the return of normalisation of relationships between Burma and the rest of the world. We are engaged bilaterally and through the UN and others in doing whatever we can to provide support, encouragement and, where possible, examples of reconciliation within the United Kingdom to assist efforts being made in Burma.

The hon. Gentleman rightly mentions the Rohingya people. As he may know, the latest position is that the commission of investigation set up by the Burmese Government is hoping to report in March. There have been no further flare-ups since the violence in October. That might suggest that the political process is being taken seriously and has some opportunity to succeed, but it will not do so unless it tackles the question of citizenship, which the hon. Gentleman mentioned and on which the whole House is agreed.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

As the Minister has stated that the International Committee of the Red Cross can apparently get through, are personnel and staff from our own Department for International Development able to work either alongside it or under the aegis of the ICRC on the ground?

[Alistair Burt]

I specifically asked this morning about the engagement of international aid agencies. As my hon. Friend will know only too well, the circumstances of engagement on the ground depend very much on security and everything else, but I was assured that international agencies are still working there. I am not currently in a position to say whether that includes our colleagues in DFID working alongside the ICRC or working to provide support, but as a result of my hon. Friend’s question I will make sure that the question is asked again. Ensuring that this aid is delivered directly is absolutely crucial in the circumstances.

Mali

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Simmonds]

I reiterate that the Prime Minister made it very clear that we were offering only limited logistical support—two C-17 planes and no combat troops—and have no plans to provide more military assistance. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, though, to say that it is necessary to bring the Tuareg and their representatives into the political process and the political governance structures of an integrated Malian state. That is being discussed at the United Nations and at a regional African level, led by the African Union and other senior figures in ECOWAS.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

The House totally understands that no combat troops will be deployed, yet technical personnel will be sent to Bamako airfield to service the large aircraft that will presumably bring in equipment such as tanks. When those aircraft land, will those technical personnel include force protection personnel, possibly including personnel from the RAF Regiment, who are actually soldiers?

[Mark Simmonds]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. The capital of Mali is pronounced “Bam-ack-co”.

Just to clarify the matter, there are currently no plans for NATO to be involved in Mali. The EU has drawn up a mission comprising 400 men, about 250 of whom will be force protection, and they are due to deploy later in the year. My hon. Friend asked a specific question about the number of military personnel who will be there to operate and to defend, if necessary, the aircraft when they are in Bamako. I will have to let him know about that.

Syria

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

The emphasis is very much on helping to look after refugees where they have arrived, as they clearly have in vast numbers on the borders of Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and Iraq, and some of them are now in Egypt. I cannot give the right hon. Gentleman any guarantee about any individuals or any particular number that would be able to come to the United Kingdom, but of course as the situation continues to deteriorate and the numbers continue to mount we will have to keep that under review.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

In view of the absence of unanimity among the permanent members of the Security Council, as a result of which instructions to the International Criminal Court are hamstrung, does my right hon. Friend agree that it is a key responsibility of whatever regime follows in Syria to indict alleged war criminals and bring them to trial, rather than pass them to the International Criminal Court?

[Mr Hague]

A future Syrian Government can do either, as has been the position in Libya. It will be open to them to refer the situation in their own country to the International Criminal Court. It will also be open to them to pursue justice in their own country. We would express the hope that if they do that, they will act in line with international norms and human rights standards, but they can do either. It is up to them to decide in the future.

Azerbaijan (Human Rights)

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Thursday 20th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Helen Goodman]

While I was there, the authorities continued to jam the BBC television channel and they held the trial of Avaz Zeynalli, who was accused of criticising the regime. The evidence was claimed to have been videoed, but neither the defendant nor his lawyer were shown the film. Finally, they hacked into the computer of Neelie Kroes’s staff while she attended the conference.

There is a long history of violence against journalists in Azerbaijan, which is documented by the Institute for Reporters’ Freedom and Safety, an Azeri non-governmental organisation. According to the institute, in 2005, Elmar Huseynov, the editor of Monitor, was gunned down in Baku. In 2011, Rafiq Tagi, a critic of Iran and the impact of Islam on Azerbaijan, was stabbed and subsequently died. The level of intolerance is well illustrated by the case of Agil Khalil, who was assaulted and stabbed after investigating reports of trees being burned in an olive grove. In April this year, Idrak Abbasov was attacked by employees of the state oil company of Azerbaijan while filming the destruction of residential properties near an oil field outside Baku. He was beaten unconscious and was in hospital for a month. It is thought that he may have been targeted for exposing human rights abuses in the run-up to the Eurovision song contest. In fact, three weeks previously, he had received The Guardian journalism award at the Index on Censorship freedom of expression awards here in London. There is then the case of Khadija Ismayilova, who I met at the IGF. She had previously worked for Radio Free Europe. Her flat was bugged and a sex video of her, which was filmed secretly, was posted on the internet.

Amnesty International has asked, in particular, that I raise the case of Mehmen Hoseynov, who is facing five years in prison. He is accused of hooliganism for filming a protest on 21 May. Will the Minister raise his case with the Government of Azerbaijan and call for all charges against him to be dropped immediately and unconditionally? Index on Censorship is also concerned about the cases of Minas Sargsyan, Hilal Mamedov, Anar Bayramli, Jamal Ali and Faramaz Novruzoglu. I have e-mailed the Minister with the details of their cases, rather than detaining the House with the long stories attached to them, so that his office can look into them.

Those cases are not isolated incidents; they are part of a systematic repression of free speech in Azerbaijan. In Azerbaijan, defamation is a criminal offence. Media workers are persistently defamed and persecuted. Azerbaijan is the top jailer of journalists in Europe and Central Asia. Index on Censorship estimates that there are currently 70 political prisoners in Azerbaijani jails. Freedom of expression, assembly and association are limited.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I was personally involved in trying to help during an election in Azerbaijan, but the person I was trying to help was not even allowed to enter the country to stand in the election. Does the hon. Lady agree that, until that sort of thing changes, this will not be a great country?

[Helen Goodman]

The hon. Gentleman’s point is particularly pertinent because there will be a presidential election in Azerbaijan in 2013. It would be excellent if we could see some improvement in the openness of Azerbaijani society, because it would give us greater confidence that these elections are freely and properly run and that people expressing many different opinions can stand.

The year 2011 also saw mass protests in Baku and Guba. They were put down extremely aggressively and some of the demonstrators were imprisoned. Furthermore, the state controls the conventional media—television, radio and newspapers—in a top-down way. Economic development and urban renewal around Baku has been pursued without regard for individuals’ property rights. The property of hundreds of people has been expropriated to make way for luxury developments, and the Government have forcefully evicted home owners, sometimes in the middle of the night. They have been left homeless and destitute. In Baku, many people still live in a Kafkaesque world where news stands do not sell any newspaper. In this situation, the internet provides a news space, and the Government claim that 60% of Azeri people have broadband access, but the American organisation Freedom House’s assessment is that the net is only half free, because the authorities mount cyber-attacks on dissident websites and arrest bloggers and IT users for their political writings on the web.

As a member of the Council of Europe and signatory of the European convention on human rights, Azerbaijan is not simply breaching human rights, but breaching its international agreements. In fact, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe will be discussing a draft resolution and report by rapporteur Strasser on political prisoners in Azerbaijan in January. The Azeri Government refused to co-operate with rapporteur Strasser, but Amnesty International says that his report is thorough and extensive.

Last week, on 12 December, the Parliamentary Assembly’s monitoring committee said:

“The combination of the restrictive implementation of freedoms with unfair trials and the undue influence of the executive, results in the systemic detention of people who may be considered prisoners of conscience”.

It continued:

“Recently adopted amendments to the Criminal Code…which have increased penalties for”

those involved in

“‘unauthorised’ gatherings…raise concern, as do alleged cases of torture and…the impunity of perpetrators.”

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) for introducing today’s debate and my hon. Friends the Members for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher) and for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) for the interest they have shown.

This is an important issue. The Foreign Secretary has said repeatedly that the defence and promotion of human rights needs to be a central theme in the United Kingdom’s foreign policy. It is important that that priority is reflected in our engagement, both private and public, with all countries in the world where there are human rights concerns and that we should be consistent in having those conversations with leaders of all countries, whether those with which we have few diplomatic or commercial dealings or those—Azerbaijan is a case in point—where there is an important United Kingdom commercial and investment relationship. In replying to the hon. Lady, I am glad of the opportunity to explain the Government’s position and place on record some of the actions that the Government have taken, and continue to take, to try to support human rights defenders and promote a culture of the rule of law and respect for human rights in Azerbaijan.

As the hon. Lady acknowledged, Azerbaijan is a young and fast developing country with an increasing presence on the international stage. It was only 20 years ago that Azerbaijan gained its independence from the Soviet Union. It is a committed contributor to the international security assistance force mission in Afghanistan. Azerbaijan was elected as a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council in October 2011 and, as the hon. Lady said, this year it hosted the Eurovision song contest. It is natural that, as Azerbaijan starts to secure a higher profile and play a greater role in world affairs, so the world will take a greater interest in Azerbaijan’s progress, including in meeting its international human rights commitments. One of the things I say to many of my ministerial counterparts from other countries when we have conversations about human rights is that we in the United Kingdom sometimes find it uncomfortable or embarrassing when the various international bodies of which we are members hold us to account and challenge us over our record on some aspects of international human rights instruments, but that is a part of life in the world community today.

I will look carefully at the texts of the two resolutions that the hon. Lady talked about—from the European Parliament and the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe—although obviously I will want to see the final versions of the resolutions that emerge from the respective parliamentary debates. However, whether we are looking at the Council of Europe, the United Nations Human Rights Committee—where Azerbaijan is due for its periodic review in 2013—or the reports that the European Commission draws up to examine progress by the six countries that are members of the EU’s eastern partnership, it is important to note that Azerbaijan’s human rights record, like other areas of its development, is rightly under international scrutiny the whole time.

The hon. Lady made a good point about the forthcoming presidential election. I very much hope that the Azerbaijani authorities will show, in actions as well as words, their clear commitment to a free and fair democratic election, and that they will welcome and facilitate the presence of international observers who will be able to ensure that international standards are met. When I visited Baku in 2010, I had a meeting with the redoubtable Dame Audrey Glover, who was heading one of the international observer teams for the parliamentary elections. It will be important to have international observers with the strength of character and independence of spirit of Dame Audrey who can report openly and boldly to the world community on what is happening during the presidential election.

[Bob Stewart]

I hope that those people who have fled Azerbaijan will be allowed to go back for the presidential election, perhaps to stand in some capacity in the election. I hope that Azerbaijan will encourage that at the forthcoming presidential election, because it certainly did not do so at the last one.

[Mr Lidington]

It is always welcome, and right, when citizens of a country who have been obliged to flee feel that they can return freely. As my hon. Friend knows, however, one of the tragic legacies of the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh is that people on the Azerbaijani and the Armenian sides of the conflict remain displaced decades later. That is why the United Kingdom strongly supports the continuing efforts of the Minsk group to bring about a resolution to that tragic human story. It is in the interests of both countries, and of the Caucasus region more generally, that we should achieve a settlement of the conflict and create political stability. That would attract greater investment and create more prosperity in the region and allow those people who were displaced by that bloody war to return to their homes.

European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We debated this at some length on Second Reading, but I will take advice and might give a detailed answer later in today’s proceedings.

In response to the point raised by the right hon. Member for Leicester East, we acknowledge that there have been unacceptable delays to the processing of applications from Romanian and Bulgarian citizens. The UK Border Agency has taken action to provide additional staff resources to deal with that and is confident that the Government’s published target standards for turning around such applications will be met by the new year.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I hope the Committee will forgive me if this has been covered in earlier debates when I was not present, but is it true that if Croatia acceded to the European Union, it would be easier for the International Criminal Court to serve an indictment on an alleged war criminal who happened to be Croatian than is currently the case because Croatia is not a member of the European Union?

[Mr Lidington]

I am not certain about the position of the International Criminal Court, but I will either respond to that question later in the debate or write to my hon. Friend. What I will say is that, in the context of this amendment, which relates to migration, once Croatia has become a full member of the European Union, the normal EU arrangements to combat illegal migration and to secure the return of illegal migrants, overstayers and others will become fully operational. As I hope to say if I reach the later stages of my planned remarks, there is already evidence that Croatia has been very energetic in preparing for those new duties and in implementing a system for dealing with illegal third-country migrants, and that will be to the benefit of every European Union member state.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I wish my hon. Friend would have more confidence in his own great country. We are a little bigger than the Czech Republic and a little more important, even though it is a most highly esteemed country. We make a massive contribution to the European Union budget, and we should be using our power, authority and position to get for the British people what the Irish Government have got for the Irish.

[Bob Stewart]

Would we make an increased contribution to the European Union budget as a result of Croatian accession?

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I was hoping to come to that when we discuss the point at which the Bill comes into force, and it may be best if I hold my fire until then, lest the Chair rule me out of order. I want to focus on the essence of European treaties: every European treaty, whether an accession treaty or the treaty of Lisbon, has exactly the same legal standing. Anything that is added to it has the proper force of an agreement across the European Union and validity in European law. We should never again lose the opportunity to renegotiate the repatriation of powers to this country when a treaty is going through the European Union. There are any number of powers that we wish to recapture—working time directives are a mere start—and we should do that because if Ireland can, so could we.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Stewart]

I support the hon. Gentleman absolutely on that point. There are still people living in Croatia who need to be brought before a court of law, and I hope very much that that will happen.

[Martin Horwood]

The hon. and gallant Gentleman makes an important point of which he obviously has expert knowledge.

It is a testament to the hard work of European and Croatian officials and Ministers that so much progress has been made—indeed, it is really a testament to the capability of the European Union accession process to improve people’s lives. I would express some regret that Croatia’s border disputes with Slovenia, a European Union nation, and other, non-European Union Balkan nations have not been fully resolved in advance of accession. In that respect, we do not seem to have entirely learnt the lesson of Cyprus. I hope that in future European Governments will start to try to insist that, as part of the accession process, any outstanding border disputes should be fully resolved before accession takes place. That will be important for the other Balkan nations, let alone for more distant and even more challenging situations in countries such as Georgia, if their aspirations to European Union membership ever became a serious process. It is important to use the opportunities that accession offers us to resolve disputes—border and territorial disputes in particular—and make progress on all those fronts.

Bringing yet another nation into the family of the European Union also helps to fulfil the positive vision of a continent united not really by rules, bureaucracy and treaties, but by values—by freedom and democracy. Croatia’s 20th century was as troubled as any country’s in Europe, with three major periods of conflict and bloodshed. It is something to celebrate that its 21st century is going to see it taking its rightful place in a stable federation of free democracies. We will all strive together as Europeans to make Europe a place of peace, freedom and sustainable prosperity. It is a matter of pride that Croatia is taking its place in that process.

Oral Answers to Questions

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Tuesday 30th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

I have seen the report and I note that one of its main recommendations is to commend the United Kingdom on its policy of voluntary labelling and to encourage other European Union countries to do the same. There is active consideration in the EU about doing just that, and we are taking part in that. So far, however, I have not seen anything that would lead us to change our policy in relation to boycotts, but I will, of course, look at all the recommendations in the report.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

Will the Minister give the House his opinion of the apparent legal inequality between children who live in settlements in the west bank and Palestinian children, who do not?

[Alistair Burt]

As my hon. Friend and other Members will be aware, there has for some time been concern about the legal rights of Palestinian children in particular. The UK Government part-sponsored a recent independent report looking into these issues. We remain concerned about the inequalities, and I have drawn these issues to the attention of Israeli Ministers when I have had the opportunity to do so.

European Union (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision) Bill [Lords]

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Monday 10th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clappison]

I am grateful to the Minister for his careful reply, and to hon. Friends and the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) for their speeches in support of my amendment. This has been a worthwhile debate because it has clarified a number of issues relating to the United Kingdom’s liability under the arrangements agreed in May 2010 to the European financial stabilisation mechanism, the European financial stability facility, and the new European stability mechanism. There will doubtless be many more such bodies in the future.

I have heard the Minister’s reply. It remains the case—I have been making this point throughout the debate—that the Bill will become an Act and be law in our country before the ESM has taken effect. The ESM will not have been ratified before this Bill is enacted. That is hanging in the wind, and I am sure that all questions that arise from that, and from the Minister’s reply, will receive careful analysis in the future.

I agree with the line taken by the Government. As I have said throughout the debate, it is clearly in Britain’s interest no longer to be liable under the EFSM, and I regret that that has not yet come about. I appreciate the line taken by the Minister, and as I have said, there are sound diplomatic reasons for the Government’s continual incantation that a stable eurozone is in this country’s interest. I understand all those who say that and we do not want to lecture our European neighbours on the point. However, let me say gently to the Minister that the more I hear that phrase uttered—even if the Minister is right to do so and there are sound reasons for it—the more it brings to my mind the image of a witch doctor making his incantations over a prostrate patient in some village in remote parts. The witch doctor makes the incantation, the credulous draw comfort from it and there is perhaps a wider feeling that traditions have been complied with, but it makes no difference to the patient who lies prostrate and as sick as ever. That, I am afraid, will be the case with the European economy for as long as we are afflicted by the present eurozone.

The Minister made a point about listening to electorates, but leaders of the European Union—the European Commission in particular, but other leaders too—have never distinguished themselves in doing that in the past. Referendums have been held, European treaties have been turned down and electorates have been told to go back and think again. Even when public opinion has been overwhelmingly in favour of a particular course, or not in favour of something the European Union has proposed, the European Union elite has paid absolutely no attention.

I do not mind discomforting the European elite; I have nothing to lose because I am elected to represent my constituents and I am happy for them to hear my words and judge me accordingly. The European political elite has pressed the cause of European integration without bothering to seek the consent of electorates, and it put in place the European monetary union project as part of that process. Members of that elite must now be held to account for all the sad economic consequences that flowed from that decision, which have been outlined by the Conservative party, and they must be made to face up to their responsibilities, as no doubt some of them will in future. There are few ways in which we can influence the European Commission and organisations of the European Union in a democratic way—I wish it were otherwise—but the European elite must face up to the consequences of its poor decision making.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

How can we make those people face up to their responsibilities and take the blame for what they have done?

[Mr Clappison]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The point I was making is that in many respects we cannot, because they are above and beyond the control of our electorate. That has always been the problem with the European Union. Some in Europe sought to impose their project without bothering to take account of the views of the electorate. That problem lies at the heart of the matters we are discussing today and is one of the reasons we are afflicted by the eurozone. It is time people began to listen and reflect on what electorates have to say and on the lamentable economic consequences of the euro. However, as I indicated I would, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Syria

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

It is a big problem. It has been a depressingly tragic and horrible problem in a series of recent conflicts around the world. It has, of course, been a problem through many periods of history, but we know much more about it today. Rape as a weapon of war is certainly used in the conflict in Syria. One can hear about that first hand from the refugees whom I have met in Jordan, and no doubt in other countries as well. Raising the awareness of this and dealing with the impunity that has existed for too long in this area will be a major foreign affairs theme of our G8 presidency in 2013, so it is something that we are already working on and feel passionately about in the case of the refugees fleeing Syria now.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I totally understand and accept my right hon. Friend’s assessment that the Assad regime is doomed. At some stage there will probably be anarchy in Syria. In such circumstances the international community will demand action, and that action will be humanitarian. From bitter experience may I suggest that humanitarian action without protection for the people going in would be rather silly? May I suggest to my right hon. Friend that any action that we contemplate should include a military element—not necessarily a British element, I hope, but international decent, good, well-trained forces to look after the people who are trying to save lives in Syria?

[Mr Hague]

There is an important point in my hon. Friend’s question: we could be dealing at some stage with the complete collapse of the Syrian state, a situation of anarchy and the breakdown of all order—there are many anarchic attributes to what is happening now—even in areas that have been less affected, and even in Damascus itself. That is why it is important that we do not to rule out any options for the future. If we come to that point, we must bear in mind his wise advice on this point.

West Bank (Area C)

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I start by congratulating the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran). I am speaking loudly because I understand that the sound system is not very good and people cannot hear. I apologise if I am shouting like a sergeant-major, but I hope people can hear me.

I spent my boyhood in Amman; my father was an officer with Glubb Pasha. I loved Amman and I remember visiting Jerusalem. I even spoke a bit of Arabic. In 1967, when I was doing my A-levels, I watched the war in June with horror. My dad despaired. He just put his head in his hands and said, “What will happen now?”

I remember Security Council resolution 242 being passed. It said that Israel should go back to the pre-1967 boundaries, and that the security of Israel should be guaranteed internationally. In 45 years, that has not been achieved—[Interruption.] Oh—the sound is back on; I shall calm down.

Israel has only to lose a war once, so I understand why it is dominated by thoughts of its own security. It is surrounded by people and some states that wish nothing more than its demise. Iran has declared that it wants to see Israel eliminated, and rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas and associated terrorist groups that also carry out suicide bombings against innocent people.

Jerusalem is a holy city for the world’s three great Aramaic religions. Jews, Arabs and other peoples have always lived in Jerusalem together, almost since history began, and in a way it is the world’s first international city. However, I want to talk specifically about the west bank, particularly Area C.

The hon. Member for Aberdeen North has already explained the meaning of the three areas, A, B and C, but if I may, I will amplify his comments to stress that Area A is the population centre for the Palestinians and contains mainly towns; Area B is controlled administratively by the Palestinians—although not for security which lies with the Israelis—and has more villages; Area C, as the hon. Gentleman said, occupies about 60% of the west bank and includes about 310,000 settlers, not including the 200,000 who live in East Jerusalem, which is separate. That area is under full Israeli security and civil control. It also has Israeli-controlled water, planning and administration.

As the hon. Gentleman said, the Oslo agreement was meant to be an interim measure, although it seems to be becoming the status quo. Internationally, Israel does not have sovereignty in Area C, or indeed the west bank—it does not. Therefore, under international law, Israel is the occupying power in that land, and it most definitely has responsibility for the people who live there.

[Grahame M. Morris]

The hon. Gentleman is making some excellent points. Does he agree that although under the terms of the Oslo agreement the Israeli authorities have responsibility for planning, water and security measures in Area C, that was an interim measure? The plan was for responsibility to be transferred to the Palestinian Authority over time, but that does not seem to be happening.

[Bob Stewart]

Yes, I accept what the hon. Gentleman says about that.

Area C is, of course, the key to sorting out the problem because it makes up the majority of the west bank. The right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock), who is no longer in the Chamber, has already made that point.

[Mr Hollobone]

Can we please get the facts right? According to the United Nations, Area C is 39% of the west bank. That is not the same as the area covered by settlements. I am afraid that my hon. Friend is not correct to say that Area C makes up the majority of the west bank. According to the UN, it is 39%. I recognise that it is a big area, but let us get our facts and figures correct to better inform the debate.

[Bob Stewart]

I hope my hon. Friend will forgive me, but when I look at the map he is holding up, it looks to me more like 60% blue. But let us not get into an argument; whether the area is 40% or 60%, something is wrong.

There are, as we have mentioned in the debate, about 310,000 Israeli settlers in Area C. There are 149 settlements—okay, people might dispute that, but it is more than 100—and there are about 100 outposts, which are illegal under both international law and Israeli civil law. Already, it is said, about four of the settlements could rightly be called cities. That is quite big. Under international law, all settlements are illegal and outposts are most definitely illegal.

Two kinds of people live in Area C. There are Israelis, who are subject to Israeli civil law, loosely—as I understand it—because they sometimes do not pay much attention to the Israeli police. In fairness, they are sometimes, apparently, in defiance of what Israeli police are trying to do. The other kind of people living there are Palestinians. They are subject to military law. That is wrong. When I visited Area C, the difference was quite clear. Palestinians cannot build where they live, except in a small percentage—1%, 2% or 3%—of the country; nor do they have freedom of movement. They have to stay in their home area. For example, a Palestinian living in Area C with relatives in East Jerusalem cannot easily go to visit them. That is wrong.

[Andrew Percy]

Does my hon. Friend accept, on the movement issue, that 100 roadblocks have been removed and movements between Israel and the west bank and within the west bank have increased significantly? Who does he blame for the lack of progress on a negotiated peace settlement? Everyone knows that the 1967 line will not be the final settlement, so who does my hon. Friend blame? Does he blame the Israelis or does he blame the Palestinian side?

[Bob Stewart]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. The answer to his question is that I do not blame either side. I have been involved in too many negotiations for the UN to start from a position of saying “You’re wrong” to one side or the other. The answer is: negotiate. There is wrong on both sides in this matter.

[Andrew Percy]

rose—

[Bob Stewart]

I have given way once. You can keep quiet for the moment.

[Mr Robin Walker]

I neglected earlier to refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Is my hon. Friend aware of the work of organisations such as Breaking the Silence, which tries to show in Israel the damage that the occupation is doing to Israelis?

[Bob Stewart]

I thank my hon. Friend for that point, and I apologise if I seemed rude to my very good hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy). I do not mean to be rude.

I am aware of the organisation Breaking the Silence. Perhaps someone else will bring it up.

[Mr Bradshaw]

rose—

[Bob Stewart]

Perhaps it will be my right hon. Friend, although he is not meant to be.

[Mr Bradshaw]

On this issue, I think I probably am. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that a better description than settlement, which is a fairly neutral, anodyne word, would be colony? These are illegal colonies. Does he agree that the description that he has just given of Area C, although it is not a complete parallel, is moving towards a situation that is comparable with apartheid South Africa?

[Bob Stewart]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that point. I am trying to avoid using words such as “apartheid” and “ghetto”. They are emotive terms. “Colony” is just acceptable, but I am trying to avoid using those terms, because, as I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole, I am trying to avoid putting blame on anyone. I am just trying to explain the situation.

[Mrs Grant]

I understand why my hon. Friend resists labelling, but does he accept that the terrible lack of freedom of movement is having a devastating effect on jobs, investment and economic growth for the entire region?

[Bob Stewart]

I thank my hon. Friend, who is most definitely a very good friend. I agree. It is quite clear that that is one of the problems.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I recognise and accept that apportioning blame in this situation is not the right thing to do. We should be aiming to get people round the negotiating table, but does my hon. Friend not agree that during the 10-month period when the Israeli Government froze all settlement activity, there was a failure by the Palestinians to get round the negotiating table and make progress?

[Bob Stewart]

Yes, but there are circumstances as to why that was the case.

[Andrew Percy]

rose—

[Bob Stewart]

I give way to my hon. Friend, otherwise he will give me hell later.

[Andrew Percy]

Not at all, but I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Like other hon. Members in their contributions, he has hit on the nub of the situation, which is that we want to encourage economic development. That is probably the best way of going towards peace, but it is not the fact that continued Israeli frustration is harming the economy. The economy in the west bank is growing significantly. The number of work permits issued to citizens in the west bank to work in Israel has increased, and the number of work permits issued to west bank residents to work in the settlements has also increased. Trade between the west bank and Israel has increased substantially year on year in the last few years.

[Annette Brooke (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind Members that a number of people still wish to speak, and the number who are able to do so is in your hands. The winding-up speeches will start promptly at 3.40 pm.

[Bob Stewart]

Thank you, Mrs Brooke. I will speed up and allow fewer interventions. I am going to speed up and cut down, because I think that is fair.

My experience as a United Nations commander informs me of one essential truth, which everyone in this room will fully understand without having been in my circumstances. Injustice will in the end cause such resentment that it will erupt. That happened in Ireland and it has happened in other places where I have been—it will eventually burst.

I know that Israel has often been provoked mightily, but what is happening in Area C worries me. There is continued expansion of settler communities in the west bank. That in a way signals to the Palestinians that there is very little intention to stop it or to come to some sort of solution. Unless the settlements stop, there can be no chance whatever of a two-state solution, and the only alternative to a two-state solution is a one-state solution—one state where Jews and Palestinians recognise one another as equals. Surely that is not totally utopian. Acceptance of human beings’ human rights is what the United Nations is all about and what everyone in this room feels strongly about, too. For its part, Hamas, in Gaza, must somehow recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist. After all, Israel did withdraw from Gaza in 2005.

[Bob Blackman]

What happened?

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Stewart]

For doing so, its reward was often a rain of rockets. The whole situation seems somewhat intractable. In my experience, it is always the little people, the ordinary people, who suffer in conflict situations. They simply want to live their lives as best they can. Whether they are Israeli or Palestinian, they are human beings. Remedial action must come from leaders on all sides. They must convince their people that it is necessary.

I end by asking God to bring back King Solomon. He was respected by Jews and Muslims equally, and my God, we need his wisdom now.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—