Oral Answers to Questions

Bob Seely Excerpts

Monday 22nd July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

I have been in this job for just over 12 months, and I have developed a sense that in some way people have an expectation that I should be planning the country from my desk in Whitehall. Fundamentally, the decisions about the local plan are for the local democratically elected representatives, and they should be examined by a planning inspector to make sure that they are compliant with national planning regimes. In the end, the fundamental arbiter of the local plan in York—whether there should be one and what it should it contain—is a decision by the people of York. I would urge them to vote for a council that will produce the kind of the plan to which the hon. Lady aspires.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

In relation to local plans and housing, Isle of Wight Council wants to set up a company to build council housing—I strongly support this—but says that it cannot access the necessary funds because it does not have a housing revenue account. Does the Minister agree with that statement, and, if so, what will he do to help my council to build council housing for Islanders?

[Kit Malthouse]

I congratulate my hon. Friend, who works very closely with his local council in its aspiration to build more council homes. This is exactly the sort of action that we want to see from local authorities, which were, frankly, induced out of council house building by the previous Labour Government. I am aware that quite a lot of councils in this situation do not have a housing revenue account, despite our lifting the cap and enabling them to access the funding that they need. I would be more than happy to arrange for his councillors or council officials to meet my officials to determine how they could establish just such an account.

Oral Answers to Questions

Bob Seely Excerpts

Monday 8th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

Of course, one change we have made is to allow local authorities to bid into the affordable homes programme, specifically to support their house building aspirations. We have lifted the HRA borrowing cap, so the hon. Gentleman’s local authority is free, in a way that it was not before, to borrow that money. I point out to Opposition Members that one of the most debilitating parts of the debate about housing is their inability to accept that this Government and the coalition Government before us were faced with a catastrophic financial framework within which to build the homes that the next generation needs. It has taken time to recover capacity in the house building industry and in local authorities to achieve the kind of aspiration he wants to see.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I congratulate the Government on their ambitious targets, but is the Minister aware that on the Isle of Wight there is deep concern about the housing targets and the lack of affordable housing? Fewer than 100 units were built between 2015 and 2018. I hope that my council will apply for exceptional circumstances to lower its targets in the interests of our tourism economy and quality of life, but to ensure that a much higher proportion of that is built for social housing. Will he meet me to discuss this issue further?

[Kit Malthouse]

I think a feeling that everybody shares across the House is the desire to address what is undoubtedly a housing crisis. Governments of all stripes over the past 30 or 40 years have failed to build the houses that the country needs. We are applying significant resources to try to correct that problem.

My hon. Friend raises an important issue, in that local authorities also have a duty to put their shoulder to the wheel to deal with the housing problem. Through the national planning policy framework, we have put the power to do so in their hands. It is perfectly possible for his local authority to produce an authoritative and ambitious local plan that both satisfies the aspirations of local residents for the kind of housing they want and sends a signal to the development community about what it should be doing on the Isle of Wight.

Greater Manchester Spatial Framework

Bob Seely Excerpts

Thursday 21st February 2019 Westminster Hall

[Kit Malthouse]

I am more than happy to write to the hon. Gentleman to set out the precise way in which the target should be taken into account. There has been a lot of misunderstanding, resulting in the notion that this is a mandated number that local authorities have to hit. We recognise that within the United Kingdom there are lots of variables to be taken into account. If a local authority falls largely within a national park, there are obviously significant constraints on its ability to produce housing. The planning system must be flexible enough to accommodate that.

At the same time, however, I urge all Members to bear it in mind that we have an urgent national mission to build homes. All parties, when in government over the past two or three decades, have failed to build enough houses to accommodate the next generation. As a result, we have seen falls in home ownership, rises in density, and a homelessness problem, and we need to address that situation. Much of it is about supply, and most of that supply will necessarily be built in the great cities of the north and across the whole of the country because, frankly, as the right hon. Gentleman said, they are great places to live; I speak as a former resident of one of them.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I am delighted to hear what my hon. Friend says about mandated numbers and I should be very grateful if he would write to me as well on this issue, because we have just produced an Island plan, and unfortunately we assess that the target of the Government and the Planning Inspectorate would require us to build 640 new homes on the Island. I believe that we should argue that we have exceptional circumstances, and I should be grateful for advice from him, because the problem is that half that housing is for domestic use and the other half is part of a larger market.

[Kit Malthouse]

I am happy to copy in all hon. Members who are present for this debate, so that they may understand how the local housing target will work. However, I urge hon. Members to recognise that there is a requirement across the whole of the country for us to look for more houses for younger people and, frankly, not to let local authority leaders off the hook—

[Mr Seely]

rose—

[Kit Malthouse]

I am afraid that I do not have time to give way again. We must not let local authority leaders off the hook in relation to taking the sometimes difficult decisions—they are difficult; I have been a councillor myself—to build and develop the right types of houses in the right places for the next generation.

I appreciate that there is likely to be a range of views about the Greater Manchester spatial framework; that is to be expected, and shows that people care passionately about what happens in their communities, which is a good thing and I applaud it. The current version of the GMSF has been agreed by 10 local planning authorities and the Mayor as being suitable to be consulted upon. That in itself shows a unity of purpose, and no doubt a degree of compromise.

I suspect that there may be further refinements to the framework, and its policies and proposals, over the coming months. As part of that process, some of the important issues that many hon. Members have so passionately highlighted today may be considered.

Local Government Finance

Bob Seely Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

We are spending around £1 billion more than at the start of this Parliament. Some £84 million is added into the settlement to ensure that we drive quality and support in the knowledge that, yes, there are pressures. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will recognise the additional £410 million that has been committed to children’s and adult social care in response to the good work that is going on and some of the pressures.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I welcome the £2.7 million extra for the Isle of Wight. More than that, I am delighted that, for the first time ever, the fair funding review mentions English islands and refers to the Isle of Wight by name as somewhere that requires extra study to analyse additional costs. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that that results in concrete extra support for English islands and the Isle of Wight in recognition of the needs of islands?

[James Brokenshire]

My hon. Friend is a fine champion of the interests of the Isle of Wight and I commend him for his work. He has made representations to the Local Government Minister and seen a recognition that different communities are affected in different ways as we look at the review of relative needs and resources. Obviously, we will listen carefully to representations we receive from hon. Members of all parties as we move forward with the review.

Appointment of Sir Roger Scruton

Bob Seely Excerpts

Monday 12th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The Clerk at the Table advises me that I am under no obligation to say anything about Sir Roger, because of course one meets all sorts of people in the course of one’s work and one’s life, but in the light of what the Secretary of State and the hon. Member for North Wiltshire (James Gray) have just said, I simply inform the House that I have of course met Roger Scruton many times over the years. I express no view about the appointment—that is not for me to do—but I did read his book “The Meaning of Conservatism” in 1982 and I have read many of his articles over the years, and I simply took the view that this issue should be aired in the Chamber. That is what is happening, and Members are very properly expressing their views on the subject.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that Sir Roger Scruton is respected throughout the world, not necessarily because of all his opinions but because he is a profound and distinguished thinker? Will my right hon. Friend accept my congratulations on the fact that the Government are not allowing themselves to be bullied by the thought police rent-a-mob, and that they are going to stand by this decision?

[James Brokenshire]

I appreciate the support that my hon. Friend is giving to the work of the commission. I believe that our focus should firmly remain on how we build communities for the future, how we build a sense of community at their heart, how our built environment is key to all that and how Sir Roger has been a champion of freedom and liberalism, which is something that we should not forget.

Housing, Planning and the Green Belt

Bob Seely Excerpts

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) for calling this important debate. I am delighted to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper).

Does the Minister know how many affordable houses were built for Islanders two years ago? Thirty-five. Would the Minister hazard a guess at the number of affordable houses built for Islanders last year? Thirty-four. Just 79 affordable houses were built in two years for an Island with a population of 140,000. This is utterly unacceptable. It is proof of a system in need of reform and, judging by the many voices here, in need of much greater local flexibility and the support from the Government that that would entail. I would like briefly to outline the problem and to suggest a few thoughts on the situation, locally and nationally.

Like many areas, the Isle of Wight needs sustainable, intelligent and sensitive regeneration to drive economic and social development. The current housing system does not serve the Island well. It is a system of developer-led housing, which generates only a small number of affordable houses. It fails to deliver the right type of housing. It is not sustainable. It encourages urban sprawl and all the transport problems identified by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) and others. It forces communities to accept unpopular local developments. And in a place like the Isle of Wight, which has a visitor economy and an important tourism industry, greenfield development actually damages our economy.

A better system would be one where there is a funding scheme to support housing associations and others to build—as a significant, if not near-100%, solution to our housing problems—genuinely affordable housing for local people in small-scale developments in existing communities. That would ensure that we were able to provide housing for our people and to protect our environment at the same time. The wrong type of housing actually damages our society, because what developers want is not what my constituents need. It is not designed for local people. And, frankly, even so-called affordable housing is not really affordable for many people who earn the Island’s average wage.

[Siobhain McDonagh]

May I say how much I support the line that the hon. Gentleman is taking about the use of the word “affordable”? Does he agree that applying the word “affordable” to housing that is 80% market rent probably means that it is unaffordable for most?

[Mr Seely]

I thank the hon. Lady for her suggestion. I would say semi-affordable, rather than affordable— and, even then, people are reliant on the bank of mum and dad.

Housing associations tell me that what they need is one-bedroom or two-bedroom housing, but what is built, because we are part of a south-east market where people come to retire, is three-bedroom and four-bedroom housing, which is not what Islanders need. One of the most painful experiences of the last election was hearing the desperation of young people unable to find anywhere to live. I want a system that prioritises housing for Islanders at prices they can afford, and specifically for young Islanders. Indeed, research that I commissioned from the House of Commons Library a few months ago shows that an increase in our population on the Island has not led to an increase in prosperity—quite the opposite. Our gross value added per head has actually gone down slightly since 2000, while adult social care costs threaten to bankrupt us on a near-annual basis.

Throughout Britain, especially in island communities, in national parks, in areas of outstanding natural beauty, and perhaps even in the big cities nowadays, our country needs a system of building that is sensitive to the environment, caters for the resident population, and has much greater local flexibility. In considering these housing proposals, I am thinking not of the next five to 10 years—where to stick a housing estate now— but of what my Island is going to look like in 50 or 100 years’ time. Its landscape has inspired people for generations, and, frankly, I do not want that disappearing just to fulfil Government targets.

Our housing policy should oppose, in principle, all greenfield development unless it has strategic advantage for Islanders. Our housing target is 640 houses a year. Few of those houses will be for people who currently live on the Island. For me, that is difficult to accept; in fact, I do not want to accept it. I have yet to meet a single person on the Island who supports it. It is much better for us to have a system that builds what we need. Working with Government and the Housing Inspectorate, we should aim to support the building of, say, between 200 and 400 properties a year, overwhelmingly funded by housing associations who will be given the support to do that. If that means social housing, council housing, or whatever we want to call it nowadays, then yes, that is what we need.

This housing should be built overwhelmingly for two groups of people: first, young people, for whom we need to build social housing, starter housing and shared-equity housing—we should also include key worker housing in this—and secondly, elderly people who are seeking supported and sheltered housing. We need to make sure that our elderly do not face a choice between an expensive nursing home, which very often the council ends up paying for, and staying in a bungalow or house that they cannot quite manage to run. By having that midway point, we can free up more housing as part of a more sustainable model of development. I hope to work on this with the Campaign to Protect Rural England, as well as other green or green-oriented groups, to develop a sustainable model that I can work on with the Minister and with the Government.

I envisage that some of this housing may be for, say, an old lady or an old gent who moves out of a bungalow that could then be purchased by a housing association who would have a planning assumption whereby they were allowed to repurpose the building, perhaps by adding a second storey or creating two properties on the site, so that we meet increased housing targets without eating into our precious landscape, and provide perhaps a home for old folks on the bottom and a younger couple on the top.

We need intelligent, sustainable and sensitive development. We do not have that at the moment; I do not feel that the current system provides it. I will do what I can in the coming months and years to work with the Minister, perhaps using the Island as a test case for a sustainable model of development that accepts some increase in population but also accepts that in unique environments we need to protect that landscape rather than just see green fields as further housing developments of the future. I look forward to working with the Minister on this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dominic Raab]

The national planning policy framework makes it very clear that building on the green belt must be the last resort. Well disposed as I am towards the hon. Gentleman, he will not tempt me to start commenting on individual plans or planning applications, but I can tell him, in relation to his own local authority, that we did not have a bid for the homes infrastructure fund and we want the bids to be locally driven. Then we will look on them as sympathetically as possible—in accordance, obviously, with a set of criteria—to maximise the output.

[Mr Seely]

Does my hon. Friend understand that, for smaller authorities such as Isle of Wight Council, which is just about the smallest county council in Britain, it is difficult because we do not have the capacity always to know how the central Government system works? Therefore, we lose out when it comes to applying for some of these funds.

[Dominic Raab]

I listened to my hon. Friend’s passionate, tenacious and articulate speech on behalf of the Isle of Wight. I am happy to look again at whether we can provide any support in relation to the bidding process, but we are in a Catch-22 because we will be criticised for imposing ideas on local communities—particularly the smaller ones—if we do not allow bids to be community-driven and led. However, let us take that forward and see whether we can work together.

I cannot tell my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles) how fantastic it was to see him in the Chamber, back in fine fettle, setting the housing market in context. As usual, he is a one man walking ideas factory, offering ideas that I am already in part looking at trying to take forward. He made a powerful case for the national mission to build more homes and for trying, as we—I emphasise this—carry communities with us, to think in radical terms to get this job done.

The hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) made some important points about the green belt. My right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) brought his experience directly from a local public inquiry to inform the debate at the national level. He also raised the issue of equality of arms between developers and local communities, an important point well made.

Local Government Funding: Isle of Wight

Bob Seely Excerpts

Tuesday 16th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered local government funding on the Isle of Wight.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I am most grateful to the Minister for attending, and I extend to him an invitation to visit my wonderful constituency. I want to raise the issue of the Isle of Wight’s local government funding, to explain why that system is prejudiced against the Island—why it is not fair—and why recognising that disadvantage and rectifying it would in no way set a precedent. Indeed, I hope that the Minister will see it as the right thing to do.

In this debate, I will focus on local government finance for the Island and I hope to call debates in future to examine the Island factor for health, housing and other policies. Overall, I want to work towards an Island deal that includes a settlement over local government funding but, more broadly, a partnership with central Government across Departments that recognises the unique and valuable role that the Isle of Wight plays in our national life. It is not only about money—although that comes in slightly—but about helping us to make the Island even more of a success.

We are an island. I know that is a statement of the obvious, but I say that because I feel that sometimes Whitehall assumes that we are not really an island in the true sense of the word—surrounded by water. We are an island; we are surrounded by water and we are dependent on the ferries to get us to and from the mainland, which is the bit that the Minister lives on, otherwise known as north island. We have a unique place in the nation’s artistic, cultural, scientific and political heritage. Our geology is unique, too: we have some 70 miles of coastline, parts of which contain the richest dinosaur finds in Europe. Half the Isle of Wight is an area of outstanding natural beauty and, arguably, we should be England’s next national park. We are the largest constituency in Britain, with some 140,000 souls. Ours is a little island, but one that has inspired great things and achievements. I would not wish to be anywhere else.

From a Government perspective, we aim to be national leaders in recycling, in the integrated public services model and in combining health and social care, to name but three areas. However, there is a problem with local government funding. Put simply, the Island’s status as an island is not taken into account. In the 1990s, the John Major Government promised the Isle of Wight a study of the extra cost of being an island. Nothing ever came of that proposal, yet the costs remain. Will the Minister consider honouring that pledge? In the meantime, or instead, I am presenting another option to the Minister.

In a 2015 study by the University of Portsmouth, the extra cost of providing local government services on the Isle of Wight—the island factor—was estimated at £6.4 million per annum based on 2015-16 data, which is an additional 3% on the public service provision. That information is on page 2 of phase 2 of the report, “Impact on Physical Separation from the UK Mainland on Isle of Wight Public Service Delivery”. I have circulated copies to the Minister and to his excellent team of civil servants, whom I also thank for being here. That report has been peer reviewed and is undergoing further review.

The University of Portsmouth broke down those extra costs into three. The first is forced self-sufficiency—the lack of spillover of public goods provision to and from neighbouring authorities. We have an obligation to provide a service on the Island, but sometimes we cannot share costs with the mainland. The fire service is an example of that. The second extra cost is the island premium, which refers to the additional cost of conducting business on and with the Isle of Wight. For the provision of public services, that may refer to the relatively higher prices that may be charged by contractors or reflected in the price of goods and services. We try to be as competitive as possible but, clearly, within a confined space there are limits. The third extra cost is what the university has described as “dislocation”—the costs associated with physical and perceived separation from the mainland. Sometimes referred to as “isolation”, it is a common characteristic of all islands, and it is seen in terms of small area, small population and small market.

Other reports have said much the same. They include the report by Coopers & Lybrand in 1996, the Joint Strategic Needs Assessment in 2000, the report by PricewaterhouseCoopers in 2004, the report entitled “The effects of being an island” by the Isle of Wight Council in 2005, the report by the European Spatial Planning Observation Network in 2013 and the University of Portsmouth report in 2015.

Does the Minister agree that we are potentially dealing with decades of historical underfunding? Does he agree that the review by the University of Portsmouth is academically rigid and backed by a wealth of primary and secondary material?

Moving back a little further, I believe that the Island is a victim of the funding system. I will outline briefly the reasons why. First, we are victims of prejudice in public project funding. The Green Book assessments—the way the Government rate public sector investment—does not work for the Island because we are physically separate. That separation results in a lower cost-benefit ratio. We do not have spillover: I cannot prove that a project that would do great things for Sandown, Newport or Freshwater has an effect in Fareham, Southampton or Portsmouth, because we are an island. We cannot make the same arguments as everywhere else in Britain that is connected physically to the mainland or is part of the mainland. We simply do not have that connection. What does the Minister suggest that we and the Government can do about that?

Secondly, we are isolated, but because we are isolated by water we fail to qualify for the rural services delivery grant, because that grant’s funding basis does not recognise the isolation of being an island and does not take into account physical separation in its definition of isolation. Can the Minister suggest a reason why that may be the case, and what does he think Government could do about that?

Thirdly, the ferries were privatised with no public service obligation. That is a significant and pretty unique error. There appears to be no desire to rectify that situation, yet elsewhere, public money tends to get thrown at locations with isolation issues. On the Isle of Wight, we spend more than £100 million a year on the ferries. What does the Minister think of this situation? Does he think that it is acceptable?

Fourthly, health model funding calculations for over 80-year-olds arguably are seen as inadequate, because of the complex health and adult social care needs of people when they hit 80 and get into their ninth and 10th decades. The Island has more 80-plus residents than the national average, and that has a significant impact on our adult social care costs.

Fifthly, recent NHS reports have simply ignored the island factor, as if the Solent somehow did not exist. Those are just some factors that I bring to the Minister’s attention. Please, do not get me wrong, Ms Dorries: we love being an island, having that wonderful identity and a different festival every weekend, and being a fantastic place that people come to, with our wonderful quality of life. This is not some special pleading, but when Government write the rules they do not seem to take the Island into account.

I am presuming that Government funding formulas are based on the idea of broad fairness. If the Minister says that, actually, they are based on the idea of broad unfairness, I will go away, but I assume he will say that the Government try to be fair. If that is the case, can he please not be permanently prejudiced against my Island, and will he recognise that the Island has issues in public service provision by dint of being an island? As we know, Scottish islands receive extra money from the Scottish islands needs allowance based on a number of factors. Welsh islands seem to have bridges galore. We have none of that. We have only the world’s most expensive unregulated ferries. I asked one of the ferry owners whether there was a more expensive ferry anywhere in the world. He said, “Try the chain link between Cowes and East Cowes.” I thought, “That’s not a great answer.” The Government recognise that islands play a special role in Britain. We would like the same recognition for the Isle of Wight—England’s island.

The fair funding formula is due to be implemented in 2021. A previous Secretary of State said that

“the costs associated with being an Island separated from the mainland will be given due consideration…as part of the fair funding review.”

The word “island” appears in the fair funding review technical consultation, along with the question, “Should island status be taken into account?” When I read that, I thought, “Hallelujah.” Clearly, we believe that the answer should be a resounding yes. Will the Minister indicate whether he thinks there is a case for island status being taken into account in the fair funding formula?

We generally have been given two answers at this point: first, “Devolution is the answer to all your problems,” and secondly, “You’re setting a precedent, so we’re not interested.” Devolution is not the answer, for the following reasons. First, there was extraordinarily little information on the Solent devolution package. Secondly, it was clear that that was simply a device to force more housing on the Island. Housing is a problem on the Island. The Government’s housing targets are completely unacceptable, and the current system on the Island serves no one. By building on greenfield sites, we provide housing neither for our youngsters nor for the people on the housing list who need it, and we damage our economy, which is in part dependent on tourism. That is not a conversation for now, but I would like to return to it in due course. Thirdly, the Solent devolution deal that was offered was a Treasury construct. The Treasury is full of wise and sensible people who have difficult jobs—I respect that—but what looks good in London may not work on the Island. Fourthly, to put it bluntly, there was nothing in the deal for the Isle of Wight.

The key power we want to be devolved is the power to impose a public service obligation on the ferries. The ferries would pay for that—its cost would be covered by their inflated profits—and there would be no reduction in services elsewhere. For the Minister’s information, because he may not be aware of their history, those are the ferries that were privatised badly in the 1980s without a public service obligation and are among the most expensive in the world. Their profits are multiples of the public infrastructure industry standard, and hundreds of millions of pounds of debt have been racked up, which Islanders pay for. Will he support giving us such PSO powers, which may mean having to cap the ferries’ profits and debts? I am genuinely interested in his opinion.

The second answer is that the Government cannot possibly give us an island factor because it would set a precedent. I do not understand that. Are the Government implying that Cornwall is going to dig a ditch a mile wide, fill it with water and declare itself an island? Is Northamptonshire somehow going to up sticks and move? Is Lindisfarne going to go on some three-dimensional steroid programme? I think not. Recognition that there is an island factor for the Isle of Wight would not set a precedent, unless that precedent was the Government accepting that we are a little bit different—a little bit special and unique—and working with us so that the Island became the jewel of southern England, as it was and we hope it will be. Listening to us and working with us on a new deal—an island deal—would set a wonderful precedent.

I thank the Minister for being here. I remind him that the amount of money we seek—£6.4 million—is small. It is a tiny part of Government expenditure. It is a margin of error in the Government accounting system. Whitehall probably spends more on paperclips every month. I also remind him that a previous Government made promises about Isle of Wight funding that were not kept, so will he support a study to honour those promises? In the meantime, does he agree that there are additional costs to being an island, which the University of Portsmouth has quantified and which I have quoted, and that those costs are unique to islands? Will he respect, accept and act on, this year and in the future, the costs outlined in the University of Portsmouth report?

Does the Minister also agree that devolution is not in itself an answer, and that no conceivable precedent would be set by honouring a fair funding formula that recognised the Island as just that—an island? Will he assure us that our submission for extra funding will be looked at seriously this year? If there is any doubt about that, may we have the promised meeting, which has not yet materialised, before the settlement for this year is finalised? Will he commit to including an island factor in the fair funding review, and to accepting and implementing that funding formula in full?

I thank the Minister once again for his time, and again extend an invitation from the people of the Isle of Wight to come and visit us. Like our 2 million annual visitors, he will have a wonderful time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Seely]

I thank my hon. Friend for his words. Just a point of fact: Jack was a great-great uncle and was elected as a Conservative despite the fact that he was a Liberal. It is a long story.

I thank my hon. Friend for recognising our distinct nature, for his words on the Scottish islands needs allowance and for his comments on the fair funding formula, which is so important to us. We will submit much evidence. Finally, although public services debates can sometimes seem arcane, it is important to remember their purpose—to build a fair and just society—for which we all aim.

Question put and agreed to.