Northern Ireland: Devolved Government

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hain, for his comments. The Good Friday agreement is the cornerstone of the UK Government’s position. I am very happy to reiterate that plainly and clearly and to distance ourselves from those comments made by others. It is very easy to knit a jersey and it is very easy to unravel it at the other end—far too quickly can we lose that which we have spent so long trying to put together. I am aware that on more than one occasion I have come before this House to say that we are hopeful that there will be an agreement, and I do not doubt that noble Lords in this Chamber today will share the frustration. In truth, this agreement must be delivered by the parties at the table. We believe that they were within a hair’s breadth of achieving that just the other day. We do not believe that we are at the end of this process; we cannot be at the end of this process; we need to have an Executive. The alternatives are not satisfactory, particularly against the issues which will face the people of Northern Ireland in coming months. We believe that the parties need to get together once again. I appreciate that noble Lords may be experiencing an element of déjà vu. That is not my intention, but the same ambition and the same need are there. They have not changed. Those two main parties and the other parties in Northern Ireland need to be part of an agreement which is sustainable and can command confidence. If we can achieve that, we will have done an extraordinary thing, but we are not there yet.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, three weeks ago in Belfast, when giving evidence to the Lords EU Select Committee, Sammy Wilson MP said that he and his DUP MP colleagues,

“meet Brexit Ministers almost on a weekly basis”.

Given the continued absence of a power-sharing Executive in Northern Ireland, and given the Government’s role as co-guarantor of the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, does the Minister agree that similar access should be granted to all parties in Northern Ireland?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I believe that all the parties in Northern Ireland need to be part of this dialogue, but I reiterate that to develop a power-sharing Executive, it is the two principal parties that must broker that deal. The Government are content to ensure that no party is left in the dark as to our ambitions and intentions, particularly as we go forward into some of the challenging times that have yet to come.

Northern Ireland Update

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating today’s Statement, and I say at the outset that we understand and appreciate all the effort required to seek the agreement needed to re-establish the political institutions. The UK Government, the Irish Government and all the political parties have worked hard to try to rebuild trust and deliver a deal. Although this round of talks has ended in failure, I commend all of them for their efforts. But on listening to the Statement, I have a sense of déjà vu and it is hard to understand where, despite all this effort, progress has been made.

I took the opportunity to reread a Statement made last July by the former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, James Brokenshire; I am pleased to see that he is back in Parliament today. Both Statements, from July and from today, say that progress has been made. Both say that gaps still exist on key issues, but before we were told that they were few in number. We had more information in the last Statement back in July on where progress had been made. Both Statements say that the Government remain optimistic and that a deal is achievable.

Is the Minister to say anything more about where progress has been made this time? When the Prime Minister visited Belfast she said that there was a deal on the table. That was corroborated by the Irish Government and Sinn Féin, but it was then disputed by the DUP. To provide reassurance that progress has been made in the last 13 months, the details of where there was agreement and where gaps remain should be published. Can the Minister assure your Lordships’ House that he will encourage the Secretary of State to commit to providing that detail for the people of Northern Ireland and for Parliament? Only then can there be a real understanding of why the talks have failed so far. Such transparency may offer greater support for those who really want to see the institutions re-established.

I will give the noble Lord a personal example. At the end of last month, on 31 January, the report of the inquiry into deaths related to hyponatraemia was published, 14 years after I set it up as a direct rule Minister, following the deaths of young children. That report makes difficult reading into why those children died. It also makes a number of significant and very important recommendations for action. Some of those recommendations may have been taken forward already and others can be put in place by the relevant authorities, but others need the involvement of locally elected politicians in both the Assembly and ministerial roles, which Northern Ireland has been without for the last 13 months. I use that example because I have a personal connection to it, but it is not the only issue on which Northern Ireland needs its locally elected representatives to step up to the plate. They have a duty to those who elect them. Surely local people have a right to know what the areas of agreement are and the areas of disagreement that remain. They can then raise these issues with the decision-makers and negotiators.

Disappointingly, in the other place the Secretary of State said that this was a matter not for the Government but for the political parties. I put it to the Government that this is a matter which they should discuss with the political parties and, if they refuse to agree to publication, the reasons should be made public. Transparency is now essential.

Some in Northern Ireland are looking to the Government to make difficult decisions and have even encouraged direct rule. Direct rule is far harder to remove than it is to set up. I was told in 2002 by my noble friend Lord Reid that I was going to be a direct rule Minister for around three months. I was then in post for two and a half years and direct rule lasted for three and a half.

Many of us have been alarmed by those who have used this situation to oppose power-sharing and the Belfast agreement. That is a dangerous and reckless approach. The efforts of those from all political parties, here and in Northern Ireland, over time ended a conflict that claimed 3,500 lives. As a former Victims Minister in Northern Ireland, I met with many more who had had their lives changed for ever through injuries and loss. I trust that when a former Conservative Secretary of State for Northern Ireland makes such comments, he is not in any way at all acting with the agreement or even the acquiescence of the Government. I welcome the comments in the Statement about the Good Friday agreement. Can the Minister confirm from the Dispatch Box that the Government fully support the Good Friday agreement as the only viable long-term option for peaceful governance for Northern Ireland, and that the Government believe that its unique form of power-sharing is indispensable?

We have heard the Secretary of State say that she intends to introduce legislation here at Westminster to directly set a budget for Northern Ireland. The Minister confirmed that. They have our support in doing so, though it is deeply unsatisfactory to have unaccountable civil servants taking decisions about schools and hospitals, and the example I gave of the inquiry. However, we acknowledge that resources must be allocated for services to be delivered. Obviously full-scale direct rule for Northern Ireland would regressive.

Political problems are nothing new to Northern Ireland, but the current impasse that has left the people of Northern Ireland without a Government for almost 400 days is a profound crisis. The Government have a clear duty to resolve it, and to preserve the Good Friday agreement and the principle of power-sharing.

Many in your Lordships’ House, and many here today, have been involved in Northern Ireland and retained an affection and an interest. I am sure that we all want the Government to continue to seek resolution and we will support them on legislation where necessary. However, we will hold them to account to preserve the letter and the spirit of the Good Friday agreement.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. On these Benches, we add our voice to those who feel a sense of deep disappointment, and indeed some bewilderment, at this latest failure to reach a workable agreement.

Just over one week ago, when the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister went to Stormont, we were led to believe that a deal was possible. That a positive outcome has once again proved elusive inevitably leads us to ask questions about the structure, participants and transparency of the negotiation process. As Naomi Long, the leader of the Alliance Party in Northern Ireland, has said, there was a degree of inevitability that,

“without a more structured approach, we would not see a successful outcome”.

This latest failure is a missed opportunity and yet again leaves the majority of ordinary people in Northern Ireland feeling deeply frustrated and without a democratically elected voice at this critical time.

Much-needed decisions have to be taken about how to ensure effective public services for the people of Northern Ireland—decisions about long-term provision for education, health and infrastructure development—and how to build the shared society that we all want. As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, has just said, civil servants have played an excellent and vital role in the past 13 months during this political vacuum—and we should pay tribute to their professionalism—but without an Executive in place there remain inevitable questions about democratic legitimacy.

Three weeks ago, on a visit to Northern Ireland with the EU Select Committee, I was struck by the excellent and imaginative work being carried out by so many people in the business community, as well as in local government and civil society, to strengthen the Northern Irish economy, most particularly at this time with the additional and complex challenges of Brexit. However, their deep frustration that many of their plans were on hold because of the absence of an Executive in Stormont was palpable.

On these Benches, we continue to believe firmly that power-sharing devolution is vital to local democracy and representative decision-making. It must be possible to find creative solutions to the current impasse. In that regard, can the Minister say whether thought is now being given to bringing in an external mediator to chair the negotiations? I appreciate the difficulties in identifying such a person given the sensitivities, personalities and challenges involved, but the events of last week show that such a person is now needed more than ever. In the light of last week’s failure, will Government consider making the talks all-party rather than just two-party as they are at present?

In the new circumstances, I repeat an earlier question that I put to the Minister: in the continued absence of an Executive, will the Government now give serious thought to the creative proposals put forward by the noble Lords, Lord Alderdice and Lord Trimble, among others, for allowing the Assembly to play a role in ensuring that the views of the Northern Irish people can be heard during the next few months, most especially during the Brexit negotiations?

Given what the Minister has said on inquests in the Statement, will the Government release funds for inquests into historical deaths, as was promised by David Cameron when he was Prime Minister?

It is vital that the hard-won gains of recent decades are not discarded without exploring all the options and alternatives. Northern Ireland and its political leaders have in the past overcome seemingly insurmountable problems, but this situation requires a degree of leadership and flexibility and a spirit of compromise that, sadly, seem all too absent at present. Short-term party-political gain must not be allowed to jeopardise two decades of progress.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baronesses for their insightful questions. I welcome the support—I think from all sides of this House—for trying to move this matter forward. It is true that the sense of déjà-vu is to some degree palpable. We have been speaking of the closeness between the parties involved. Indeed, that closeness brought about such proximity that it was anticipated that we would be making a very different Statement today, but we are not. We are instead making a statement, I suspect, of regret that we have not been able to bridge those gaps. The important thing to stress here is that the UK Government have acted in good faith to try to bring together the two key parties that will be instrumental in forming a functioning, sustainable Executive. We have done all we can to facilitate that dialogue.

I shall answer the specific questions raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, put her finger on it when she reflected on the inquiry she set up all those years ago and recognised that it is important that we are able to deliver, but it is, in truth, the people of Northern Ireland who must deliver, and it is an Executive who must deliver. There is no substitute—we are not a substitute and nor is the other place—for that functioning Executive and it is right that the civic society of Northern Ireland must feel a degree of frustration that this has been going on for so long. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been clear that nothing will now be taken off the table: all aspects of the negotiations will be moved forward as best we can to try to bring about some sense of movement.

Again, let me move on. I recall the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who spoke about direct rule being like walking down the steps of Stormont: it is easy to tumble down but very hard to claw your way back up. Direct rule, indeed, cannot be taken off the table but nor should it be a priority or a single focus. There are too many other avenues that we must explore. I am conscious, again, that we must recognise that the Belfast agreement and the successor agreements are all part of and core to what we will use to go forward. I welcome the remarks of the noble Baroness: the Opposition need to hold us to account and make sure that we do not slip in any way from our clear commitment to deliver, on an impartial basis, a functioning Executive in Northern Ireland. Progress has been made; the problem, of course, is that an agreement has not been reached. The bilateral discussions have taken place; the question is whether that information should be made public. At the moment, the parties themselves would prefer that information not to be made public and we would prefer to allow that to continue on that basis.

Turning to external mediation, nothing is off the table from this point onward. Again, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will consider every possible way of taking this matter forward. Indeed, the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and my noble friend Lord Trimble will be part of all consideration to make sure that every possible means we have to bring about a rekindling of this spark, to allow these talks to deliver an Executive, will be used. Nothing is off the table; indeed we have high hopes that there will be an opportunity for the parties to reconvene and to once again seek to bridge the ever-diminishing divide between the sides. This is what I believe all in this House, the other House and all the people of Northern Ireland so clearly and needfully desire at this moment.

Social Security (Restrictions on Amounts for Children and Qualifying Young Persons) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2017

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Wednesday 6th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, for bringing this regret Motion before your Lordships’ House this evening, and I echo many of the points that he raised. On these Benches, we deeply regret that the Government brought forward these caps on child tax credits. We do, however, acknowledge the establishment of certain exemptions to the cap for those who do not have the same control as others in choosing the number of children in their family—for example, in the specific circumstances of multiple births, adoption and following rape.

The Liberal Democrats would abolish the two-child limit because we believe that there is no way to enforce a two-child policy without something like a “rape clause”, which can be both degrading and humiliating for the women concerned, and because we believe that the policy can lead to an increase in child poverty, as families are punished for their decisions, which are often outside of their control. As the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, has already said, there are several very specific circumstances surrounding current legislation in Northern Ireland that make the situation there even more unacceptable, and at times personally tragic, for many women and families.

The combination of the existing abortion laws in Northern Ireland, which mean that abortion is in effect illegal in the majority of cases, and Section 5 of the Criminal Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1967, which requires a person who becomes aware of a crime to disclose it to the police, both have a direct impact on the women concerned as well as the healthcare professionals and legal professionals who try to assist them. This is particularly relevant to these regulations due to their provisions regarding rape. Not only is abortion outlawed in Northern Ireland, including in the case of rape, but impartial advice on the subject for the victim following a rape is significantly restricted.

Women in Northern Ireland who have been raped will have access to neither abortion advice nor services. If they have a child as a result of rape, they will then have to face reliving their experience in order to access benefits for the child. Furthermore, it is still to be seen whether healthcare professionals will receive the necessary training or support when assessing victims of rape for universal credit. My colleagues in the Alliance Party in Northern Ireland have spoken to the Royal College of GPs, the Royal College of Nursing, the Northern Ireland Association of Social Workers, the British Medical Association and the Royal College of Midwives. None of those organisations has reported receiving training or support. Does the Minister agree that this is a situation which needs to be urgently rectified?

One of the most significant failings in these regulations, as the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, has already said, is the lack of thought given by the Government to the impact of how the separate Northern Ireland legislation under Section 5 of the Criminal Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1967 would impact on victims of rape. As a result of this legislation, both the rape victim disclosing information to gain universal credit for their child, and the person they are disclosing this information to, could be open to prosecution for not reporting the crime to the police. Surely that is a totally unacceptable situation in the 21st century. The Liberal Democrats voted against the two-child limit which has caused the need for this degrading process for the victims of rape, and we continue to believe strongly that this policy should be reversed.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, in a recent blog to mark the 50th anniversary of the Social Policy Association—I declare an interest as its honorary president—the internationally respected Professor Emeritus of Social Policy, Jonathan Bradshaw, asked:

“What is the worst social security policy ever?”.


The answer was the two-child policy. He described it as discriminatory and morally odious and noted that the exceptions would be “unpleasant to operate”. It is these exceptions that the regulations enact, but they cannot be understood or debated separately from the policy they mitigate, as the noble Baroness has explained, because they do so at potentially considerable human cost, particularly in Northern Ireland.

Analysis by the Child Poverty Action Group—again, I declare an interest as honorary president—and the Institute for Public Policy Research indicates that once universal credit is fully rolled out, the policy will result in an additional 200,000 children and 100,000 adults in poverty. It will also mean many larger families who are already in poverty—and remember that larger families are already at greater risk of poverty—will be pushed further below the poverty line, leading to greater hardship and deprivation.

Like the benefit cap, the two-child limit breaks the link between children’s needs and the support that Parliament has deemed necessary to meet those needs. Third and subsequent children are deemed less worthy of that support on totally spurious grounds. A number of organisations have argued that the policy and hence regulations contravene our international human rights obligations by in effect restricting women’s reproductive rights and discriminating against those with a faith-based objection to contraception or abortion, which is especially likely in Northern Ireland.

Will the Minister explain how the policy gives primary consideration to the best interests of those children with the misfortune of being born after two siblings? The UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights has already expressed concern and I am pleased to say that the CPAG has been given leave to seek a judicial review of the limit on human rights grounds.

As human rights arguments do not appear to concern the Government, perhaps the likely unintended consequences will do so—that it could lead to families splitting up or lone parents being reluctant to repartner with someone who already has a child.

We are still awaiting a proper family impact statement of the policy. Earlier this year the Prime Minister answered a question on what has come to be known as the “rape clause” by invoking the “principle of fairness”, which she asserted underpinned the two-child limit because,

“people who are on benefits should have to decide whether they can afford more children, just as people in work have to make such a decision”.—[Official Report, Commons, 26/4/17; col. 1107.]

Leaving aside the erroneous assumption that these are two distinct groups and the fact that the majority of those affected will be parents in paid work because of the interaction with the benefit cap, where is the fairness in a policy that penalises families retrospectively for a decision to have another child which may have been made in more propitious economic circumstances? At least the full impact of its retrospective application will not be felt until after January 2019, when new claims from larger families will no longer be routed back to tax credits.

Where is the fairness in regulations which say that adoptive parents or kinship carers are exempt if they adopt or take on a third or subsequent child but are not exempt if they want to have a child of their own and this takes them over the limit because of the presence of an adopted or looked-after child? This was one of the issues raised by the Secondary Legislation Committee. Where is the fairness in a policy that faces a woman who is, say, pregnant because of contraception failure, with the choice between deeper poverty and an abortion; or which condemns her to greater poverty because she was unable to get an abortion due to the lack of specialist doctors—a problem highlighted recently by the president of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists? While the extension to Northern Irish women of the right to an NHS-funded abortion in England is welcome, exercising that right will not necessarily be easy, especially for women with limited resources or who want to keep their abortion secret for whatever reason, and we should remember that many live in small and/or rural communities. That is one reason why this policy and these regulations are particularly unfair and pernicious in a Northern Irish context.

The noble Lord, Lord Patten, referred to the parity principle, but surely parity does not mean that local circumstances cannot be taken into account. In its report on the earlier regulations, the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee warned:

“The practicalities of applying these requirements in Northern Ireland will need to be fully thought through before the equivalent regulations are brought forward”.


That is some hope. Instead, as the committee notes in its latest report, they,

“exactly mirror the mainland Regulations, with the exception of the start date”.

The committee concedes that the Explanatory Memorandum “nods to the concerns” it had expressed, but observes that it is not “entirely clear”. What is clear is that the further clarification provided by the Government has not allayed concerns.

Those concerns have been clearly articulated by the Women’s Aid Federation Northern Ireland; I am grateful to Louise Kennedy for her briefing. They relate to the notorious “rape clause” exemption that we have already heard about, which now also includes a conception in the context of a controlling or coercive relationship—a rare and welcome example of the Government taking the overwhelmingly critical responses to the consultation exercise on board. However, I am advised that there is no coercive control law in Northern Ireland, nor sufficient public or professional understanding of the concept for it to provide an effective exemption there.

As the regret Motion states, and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee drew attention to, there is deep concern in Northern Ireland, as we have heard, about the interaction between the legislation and the criminal law, which could lead to the criminalisation of a woman who has been raped, or a third-party assessor where the rape is not reported to the police. Many women do not want to engage with the criminal justice system and should not be put in the position of having to make such an invidious choice. Likewise, it raises serious ethical questions for social workers and voluntary organisations accredited as third-party assessors. I believe that some are refusing to carry out such assessments, or at the very least are supporting any individual member who refuses to do so on ethical grounds.

I am aware that the Government have given assurances that no one has ever been prosecuted for not reporting a rape, and that the rape clause assessment is effectively a tick-box exercise that does not require probative questioning. Yet, as my noble friend said, Northern Ireland’s Director of Public Prosecutions has confirmed that both victims and third parties are potentially liable to prosecution. If it is just a tick-box exercise, why can the woman not simply tick the box herself without being interviewed by a third-party assessor?

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee warns that the potential threat of police involvement,

“must make it likely that some women will not claim the benefit”,

to avoid that risk. It states:

“As a result they will lose the additional funds to which they would otherwise be entitled and the policy will therefore not operate as intended”.


Other concerns raised by Northern Ireland Women’s Aid apply more widely. It argues that forcing rape victims to disclose their ordeal before they are ready can retraumatise them and exacerbate mental health issues arising from sexual assault. It states that it is,

“contrary to all good practice relating to victims of sexual abuse and is clinically unsafe”.

The BMA has condemned the policy as “fundamentally damaging to women”.

Women’s Aid also questions the requirement that the woman is no longer living with her rapist. They point out that much sexual violence and rape occurs within the context of domestic violence and is more difficult to disclose, and that leaving such a relationship is a time of particular danger. A similar concern was raised in submissions to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which underlined that it shared this concern. The Explanatory Memorandum acknowledges that,

“not all victims will feel able to leave the perpetrator”,

but justifies the policy on the grounds that otherwise, the alleged perpetrator could benefit financially from the abuse because of joint payment of universal credit. Surely a split payment could be made to avoid this? It seems a flimsy argument, especially given the growing difficulty that women have in accessing refuges, which is likely to be exacerbated if the threatened change to the funding regime goes ahead.

In conclusion, needless to say, I strongly support my noble friend’s regret Motion, but I regret even more the unfair and, to quote Professor Bradshaw once more, “morally odious” policy from which these regulations derive. The sooner this policy is ended, the better.

Northern Ireland Budget Bill

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 14th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, it is always a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, with all the experience and wisdom that he brings, and we had a fantastic example of this evening.

We on these Benches will support the Bill this evening. In the present circumstances, we believe that it is now essential. It is deeply disappointing that we have found ourselves in this position, but we recognise our obligation to the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that public services can continue. The Civil Service has been working on these assumptions, so the Bill is now required to give the legal authority to the full 100% cash flow needed, rather than the 95% allowed under Section 59 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

However, this position is far from ideal. The figures reflect the assumptions and the emerging Budget that the Sinn Fein Finance Minister was poised to recommend in January this year. However, there had already been delays to that Budget process, so a Budget had not been passed by the Assembly at the point of the Executive’s collapse in January. Moreover, the DUP and Sinn Fein had not agreed an economic strategy, a social strategy or an investment strategy for the financial year 2017-18.

I am deeply concerned that the Budget for next year—2018-19—will be considerably more challenging than the Budget before us today. Normally, a draft Budget would be going out for public consultation about now. Under normal circumstances, we would expect a draft Budget to be agreed early in 2018. I am concerned that it is now entirely possible that this process could drag on beyond the start of the new financial year.

As I said during the Statement last week, it has now been 10 months since the Executive collapsed. Northern Ireland is showing the strains of this political vacuum, with no one able to take the strategic and political decisions that are needed to grow the economy, ensure effective public services and build the shared society that we all want.

We are extremely concerned that in the absence of clarity about governance, there is no clear authority to put in place decisions and reforms that would allow money to be spent more efficiently and effectively. As a consequence, Northern Ireland is building up more and more problems for next year, and I am concerned about the impact that this will have on its people.

Setting a Budget is the most important act that any Government take. Robust public finances underpin the provision of services and economic growth. Public finance in Northern Ireland has needed significant reform for decades, and the financial difficulties predate the current crisis, but these continual crises are undermining public services and preventing Northern Ireland’s economy improving. The creation of a stable Budget is essential for Northern Ireland’s progress. The divided nature of Northern Ireland society exacerbates the economic problems that it faces. Major distortions remain within the provision of public services within the context of a divided society. This is not just a legacy issue; this pattern of duplication in service delivery continues to be replicated. Tackling the cost of division is by far the most significant long-term financial challenge facing Northern Ireland, but this is not being addressed in the current political vacuum.

Does the Minister recognise that, as well as the direct costs of policing civil disturbances and repairing damaged buildings and facilities, there are also indirect costs of providing duplicate goods, facilities and services for separate sections of the community, either implicitly or explicitly? These costs are borne not just by the public sector but by the private sector. Does he realise that divisions within society and a lack of political stability mean opportunity costs too, particularly related to lost inward investment into Northern Ireland and tourism? The Secretary of State recognised that in his speech in Brussels on 6 November, when he said:

“In Northern Ireland today over 90 per cent of public housing is segregated along sectarian lines. Over 90 per cent of children in Northern Ireland are educated separately … Indeed some independent estimates put the cost of division in Northern Ireland at around £1.5 billion. So bringing people together … and building a stronger, more shared society has to be an urgent priority”.


Does the Minister support efforts by the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland to require all departments to actively encourage de-segregation and to promote cohesion, sharing and integration within their policies and spending plans?

The Budget before us today is essential to ensure the full provision of resources for public services and to provide the legal authority to spend. But passing a Budget does not address the governance gap in Northern Ireland. Therefore, these scarce resources cannot be spent efficiently and effectively, and key reforms cannot be progressed. Even at this late stage, as the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, has set out so clearly, there may be alternative ways to save devolution and to provide for shared and sustainable government in Northern Ireland. There are proposed interventions: for example, bringing in an external mediator; a different format for the talks; and reform to structures and mechanisms that can better incentivise progress.

I urge the Minister to consider all the options to restore devolution so that we do not throw away the hard-won gains of recent decades. It must be possible to find creative solutions to the current impasse, and we urge all those involved to redouble their efforts.

Northern Ireland

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, first of all I thank the Minister and the Government for making the Secretary of State’s Statement available to us. In the spirit of co-operation, we are very grateful for that. I echo the words of my honourable friend Owen Smith, with which I think the Minister will agree: it is profoundly disappointing that after 10 months of talks, two elections and countless and increasingly meaningless deadlines, the larger parties remain deadlocked, unable to agree an agenda for change and unwilling to show trust in one another.

Where we perhaps disagree—although disagree might be too strong a word—is on the assessment of what more could have been done and might still be done. My honourable friend Owen Smith has, as befits the House of Commons, robustly expressed comments on some of the Government’s efforts so far. I hope a more productive approach will be taken.

The time may have come to consider drafting in outside help for the Northern Ireland politicians and the Secretary of State, as has happened before, to try to break the deadlock. The Labour Party, in co-operation with the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats, has a proud history of facilitating progress in Northern Ireland, and independent chairs for the talks were employed to great effect during that period. Will the Government consider doing likewise and bring in a fresh pair of eyes? Can the Minister tell us any more about the Government’s intentions now that this round of talks has failed?

We fully support the Government in bringing forward a budget, as it is the responsible thing to do. Public services in Northern Ireland, as elsewhere, need investment and not cuts. We hope the Minister will tell the House how the Government intend to consult the parties in Northern Ireland on the priorities and, most importantly given the history of Northern Ireland, ensure that the funds are spent equitably.

There are reports in the press that the Government have had discussions with the political parties in Northern Ireland to find ways to sustain and create a role for the Assembly, even under direct rule. Will the Minister enlarge on the thinking behind that? We do not believe that direct rule would be a good thing. It would be a profoundly damaging reversal in the peace process, and we cannot afford that. A shadow Assembly, scrutinising or advising Ministers and, crucially, sustaining the north-south and east-west institutions that are such vital components of the Good Friday agreement, might provide some mitigation. That is an idea we would be willing to explore and support the Government in as a means of sustaining the talks and finding a route back to devolution.

We hear what the Government are saying about MLAs’ pay. We understand the frustration and sometimes anger at the fact that payments are ongoing for MLAs and their staff in the current situation. It would be very easy to respond negatively to that. As we have found to our cost in the past, cutting politicians’ pay will always be popular. But we need this generation of Northern Irish politicians to talk, to work and to rebuild devolution. I know patience is wearing thin on the streets of Northern Ireland, but we hope the Government will resist steps that would diminish the engagement of negotiators and undermine the smaller parties in particular.

Finally, to echo my honourable friend Owen Smith, I want to give the Minister a foretaste of what direct rule would mean for the Government. Does he agree that this morning’s report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies makes shameful reading for any Government? It shows that more children will be driven into absolute poverty in Northern Ireland by universal credit and the two-child policy than in any other component nation of the United Kingdom. Will the Minister commit to considering using the forthcoming budget to undo that harm to the children of Northern Ireland?

I hope my comments are not taken as severe criticism. I repeat for the record that the Government have our full support in trying to reach a solution to the problems in Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement today and welcome him to his new role. It is a deeply challenging time to be taking on these responsibilities and I wish him well in the weeks and month ahead.

We on these Benches cannot help but be deeply disappointed by the lack of progress in forming a new Executive. It is much to be regretted that we have now reached the stage where, once again, it has become necessary to legislate to put in place a budget for Northern Ireland. However, we recognise our obligations to the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that public services can continue and agree that this is the responsible course of action at this time.

It has now been 10 months since the Executive collapsed and during this critical period Northern Ireland has been without an effective Government and without an effective voice. Northern Ireland is showing the strains of this political vacuum, with no one able to take the much-needed decisions to ensure effective public services and to build the shared society that we all want to see. This is all the more tragic at a time when strategic planning to grow the Northern Irish economy in the challenging months and years ahead is so deeply needed.

However, we take some comfort from the fact that the Secretary of State is not abandoning the talks process and that this Government and the Irish Government are continuing to work hard to restore the Executive. It is vital that the hard-won gains of recent decades are not discarded without exploring all of the options and alternatives. Northern Ireland and its political leaders have in the past overcome seemingly insurmountable challenges to find the accord that became the Belfast Good Friday agreement, but this requires a degree of leadership, flexibility and a spirit of compromise that, sadly, seems all too absent at present.

We therefore urge the Secretary of State to keep in mind that there may be alternative ways to save devolution and provide for shared and sustainable government for Northern Ireland. For example, has the Minister considered intervening to provide reform of the petition of concern? This mechanism is now not being used for the purposes for which it was intended, and the mutual veto in the hands of the DUP and Sinn Fein seriously hampers free and open debate and decision-making. Secondly, to echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, has the Minister given active consideration to the suggestion made by my noble friend Lord Alderdice and others that the Assembly could continue even if the Executive Ministers are not in place? In that way, there would be an elected body with which the Northern Ireland Office Ministers and other Ministers could consult and ensure that a Northern Irish voice is heard during the Brexit negotiations, including possibly some level of effective representations on the joint ministerial committee which is dealing with Brexit matters.

We on these Benches continue to believe that power-sharing devolution is vital to local democracy and representative decision-making, facilitating reconciliation and providing a coherent regional voice in critical matters such as Brexit. We believe that it is possible to find creative solutions to the current impasse and urge all of those involved to redouble their efforts. The people of Northern Ireland deserve no less.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, and welcome their support. At this time, it is important that we, as a House, are united in recognising that the best place for decisions for Northern Ireland are made in Northern Ireland. I can assure the House that that is the principal aim of the United Kingdom Government. We want to facilitate talks and hope that out of those talks will emerge a functioning, sustainable Executive which can deliver for the people of Northern Ireland In the short term, of course, our discussions are limited to the financial year and a budget, but the points that have been raised are none the less valid and I shall try to address them as best I can.

I agree it is disappointing that an agreement has not been reached, but that has not been for want of effort from the United Kingdom Government, the Prime Minister, the Irish Government and the Taoiseach, who have each committed to trying to deliver an outcome that will work for the communities of Northern Ireland.

As we look at the budgets, it is important to recognise that they are not budgets of the United Kingdom: they are budgets and budget elements which have been determined by the Northern Ireland Civil Service based upon the priorities of the outgoing Executive. There has been no attempt or means used to try to influence or change that by the United Kingdom Government. Clearly it will not work in the long term, for obvious reasons, and that is why it remains our principal priority to return and deliver a functioning Executive.

On the issue of payment for Members of the Assembly, it is important to stress two things. As many will know, the Members have a constituency role as well and that cannot be lost sight of. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has committed that this issue will be carefully examined, and he will not commit to any particular outcome until he has received that careful consideration. No decision has been taken and we want to make sure that any decision that is taken works.

On the issue of involving the smaller parties, it is right that we should emphasise that this is not simply a discussion among the majorities; it must also involve all of those who are part of the widest community in Northern Ireland. The settlement that we need to see and deliver will involve all. This will done on the basis of consent, which is important.

As to the notion of joint ministerial committees, wearing my other hat as a Minister in the Scotland Office, I have sat in on meetings where the Civil Service of Northern Ireland has participated. I can assure the House, as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State emphasised, that it is remarkably able and has defended and articulated the views and needs of Northern Ireland very well indeed. However, we must ensure there is a point at which those views are articulated by the elected Members of the Assembly, and that must be done as quickly as we can make it so. Again it is important to stress that we are working against a backdrop of Brexit at a time when those voices are more critical than ever, and that must be delivered in order to ensure that.

On the wider point raised by the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, about universal credit, bringing people into work is an important first step towards ensuring that they are in a better place. However, going forward, I would prefer to see a situation in Northern Ireland where decisions are taken by those elected in Northern Ireland.

I will leave it there. There are other elements which I may be able to pick up on in a written response if that is considered appropriate.

Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointments and Regional Rates) Bill

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 26th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for being in touch with my noble friend Lord Alderdice and me about the Bill last week. I shall keep my remarks extremely brief as we consider the Bill a sensible and necessary approach to the circumstances in which we find ourselves, and we hope to see its swift and unamended passage through your Lordships’ House today.

I begin by paying tribute to the police officers and those from the other emergency services who worked on Sunday to keep the whole community in north Belfast safe, following the discovery of a dissident republican bomb. Those who placed this bomb, not only in the heart of the community but outside the gates of a primary school, do not represent the vast majority of people in the area. Such actions have no place in a democratic society.

It is unfortunate that this election has been called without regard to the sensitive negotiations in Northern Ireland, and that, instead of working with the political parties to secure devolution so that Northern Ireland can have a strong voice in the Brexit negotiations, the Prime Minister has concentrated more on securing her own political future. Given that the general election has now been called, however, we believe that extending the period for forming an Executive in Northern Ireland to 29 June is necessary as further progress on the talks is unlikely during the election period.

We also recognise, as has been pointed out by the honourable Member for Foyle, Mark Durkan, in the other place, that the Government may not be in a position to give undertakings or commitments in the negotiations in Northern Ireland as we move into a period of purdah. So in reality it may not be possible to achieve a comprehensive agreement before the election. I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm whether that is indeed the case.

The general election comes at a crucial time for Northern Ireland. The current vacuum is not sustainable; it is already doing damage to the Northern Irish economy and its public services, so we are also supportive of the second provision of the Bill, which sets the regional rates for domestic and non-domestic property in Northern Ireland for the current financial year. Will the Minister assure us that, in the short but critical three weeks between the election on 8 June and this revised deadline of 29 June, if the Prime Minister is returned to office, she will make securing a stable Executive in Northern Ireland one of her top priorities?

Perception is extremely important in politics. Does the Minister agree that clear leadership must be shown at the highest level of government to help secure the devolution settlement, including prime ministerial visits to Belfast? While we recognise that it is unlikely that much progress will be made in the forthcoming weeks, will the Minister also reassure us that he will continue to consult and work with all political parties in Northern Ireland and confirm that the political parties in Northern Ireland were consulted on, and are content with, the inflationary increase of 1.6% provided for in the Bill?

I give assurances from these Benches that we will not oppose either of the provisions before us in the Bill today. However, I urge the Minister not to let any progress deteriorate in the coming weeks, and ensure that talks in Northern Ireland are resumed as a matter of urgency following the election on 8 June.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. In keeping with past tradition and practice of a consensus between all the parties regarding Northern Ireland, he and I have a strong relationship which is invaluable in this situation. Bearing in mind that close relationship, I know it will be a great disappointment to him that he must stand before this House again today to inform us that the talks to re-establish an inclusive, devolved Administration at Stormont have not been successful.

On 2 March, the people of Northern Ireland turned out to vote for their representation and for a devolved Assembly that will serve the needs of the whole community. If anyone has any doubt about the expectations, hopes and aspirations of the whole of the people of Northern Ireland, they may find it useful to speak to my noble friend Lady Blood, who is well tuned into opinion. A number of noble Lords throughout this House, especially those from Northern Ireland, will be able to testify to that need of the whole community. We need all the political parties in Northern Ireland collectively to live up to those expectations.

Communities and public services in Northern Ireland are suffering the day-to-day realities of this impasse. The Minister made mention of the health service—a service which is struggling with waiting lists while waiting for political leadership to be back in place. We thank the Minister for notice of the interim measures in place to allocate resources to Northern Ireland departments. We agree with his own statement that this is not sustainable.

I would like to ask the Minister about the talks moving forward. What fresh initiatives will be employed to ensure that the next round of talks are dynamic and make progress? We must ask: what will be different about these talks? Can we encourage, in the strongest possible terms, the importance of prime ministerial involvement in this process? History shows us how important this can be. I am aware of the answer the Secretary of State gave to my honourable friend the Member of Parliament for Blaydon in the other place, that the Prime Minister is involved and is conducting business through the Secretary of State. This is absolutely no reflection on the hard-working attitude of the Secretary of State, but does the Minister agree that we need greater leadership to be shown in the weeks ahead? Is he able to tell us what plans the Government have to ensure that the Prime Minister is even more actively engaged in the process?

We must also ensure high-level, direct engagement from the Irish Government in their role as a guarantor of the Good Friday agreement. Can the Minister update the House on the continuing intervention that the Irish Government have had, and will have, in the process? What options have the Government looked at in dealing with the specific issue of the renewable heat incentive scheme? Has the Secretary of State looked at the financial burden that the scheme placed on the people of Northern Ireland, and are there any options for how this may be more appropriately dealt with?

We in this House are under no illusion that this is easy. But this does not stop us—or, more importantly, the people of Northern Ireland—having high expectations of what must be achieved. We need all engaged parties, including the UK Government and the Irish Government, to ask not “What do we want?” but “What can we give to this process moving forward?”.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, will start by thanking the Minister for repeating the Statement to your Lordships’ House this afternoon. I will also say that it is with a very deep sense of regret—despite the very genuine efforts by some—that we have reached this impasse.

Let us be clear: the consequences for Northern Ireland of the failure of the political parties to reach agreement to establish an Executive are very serious. We are days away from the end of the financial year, and yet—as has been said—there is no budget. There has been no vote to set next year’s regional rates. There is no programme of government. This will lead to increased uncertainty for key public services in Northern Ireland such as health and education, and in the voluntary and community sectors.

It is particularly to be regretted that the ordinary people of Northern Ireland find themselves without a voice through an Executive at Stormont at such a critical time. With the triggering of Article 50 tomorrow, this is the very time when the particular needs of Northern Ireland deserve to be clearly heard. There are very real and as yet unresolved concerns for Northern Ireland, not least about how to maintain the open border in the context of the UK leaving the customs union. Can the Minister say what mechanisms the Government intend to put in place to ensure that the views of all political parties in Northern Ireland are heard during the Brexit negotiations? Does he agree that the joint ministerial committee will have a greater role to play in the context of Brexit, and that a more balanced representation of MLAs is needed to reflect the views of Northern Ireland?

Does the Minister further agree that, in the event of the current impasse continuing, a mechanism needs to be found to keep Assembly Members in place and to engage them and their party leaders in discussions on Brexit and other issues? Will he confirm that any such mechanism would require primary legislation?

Given that the RHI scandal was one of the immediate causes of the current crisis, will the Minister confirm that it is his understanding that the inquiry chaired by Judge Coghlin could take as long as six months to complete? Is he confident that Judge Coghlin has the necessary resources to enable a rapid conclusion to the inquiry? However, it is clear that there are deeper problems than the specific issues surrounding RHI. It will therefore be necessary to do things differently in order to secure a deal and to move forwards.

We on these Benches believe that there is no alternative to devolution, but that to achieve agreement will require a renewed commitment on the part of all participants to the talks. We believe that all parties now need to take stock of their position and come back to the negotiating table in a frame of mind to reach an agreement. Does the Minster agree that it is necessary to have a renewed sense of momentum, with clear leadership and full engagement by all political parties? What concrete action are the Government taking to provide the necessary leadership at the highest level at this time?

As former President Bill Clinton said last week, making peace work is an “endless process”. It requires compromise, a cool head, leadership and a desire to put the best interests of all the people of Northern Ireland ahead of narrow political advantage. We sincerely hope that such an attitude will be forthcoming in the next few weeks.

[Lord Dunlop]

First, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their comments. I agree with many of the sentiments they expressed. I think that the whole House will agree that the people we should have in the forefront of our mind today are the people of Northern Ireland. In the recent Assembly elections they voted overwhelmingly for strong, stable and inclusive devolved government, and it will be a matter of great disappointment to them—as it is to the Government—that the parties have been unable to reach agreement within the statutory period to enable an Executive to be formed.

This has real and practical implications. From tomorrow, a civil servant rather than elected representatives will be allocating cash for public services. This is not sustainable beyond the short term. Northern Ireland wants and needs effective, devolved government delivering on an agreed set of priorities and providing strong public services for all the people of Northern Ireland.

Turning in particular to the process going forward and who is involved in it, I say clearly that the UK Government take their responsibilities very seriously. However, it is important to say that the Northern Ireland parties also need to take their responsibilities seriously, to provide leadership and solutions to the current issues. My right honourable friend the Northern Ireland Secretary has been actively involved in supporting and facilitating the discussions between the parties over the last few weeks, and making proposals to bridge the gaps. As he said in the House of Commons, the Prime Minister has been fully engaged. She has held a number of conversations with the Taoiseach and will remain fully engaged as we go forward. However, it is worth noting that high-level interventions have not always worked in the past, as the early 2000s showed, and the circumstances today are very different, with 10 years of unbroken devolved government behind us. But of course we accept that this is a window of opportunity, and the discussions need to be intensified and inclusive. The Secretary of State will be discussing in the coming hours and days with the parties and the Irish Government the process for taking matters forward. We are working closely with the Irish Government and Irish Foreign Minister Charlie Flanagan in accordance with the three-stranded approach.

On some of the other issues, clearly Brexit is a hugely important matter, and it is absolutely vital that the interests and priorities of Northern Ireland are reflected as we prepare for the negotiations to come. That is of course why we need to get a fully functioning Executive up and running as quickly as we can. Of course, the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Office will continue to engage with stakeholders right across Northern Ireland and to represent those interests. However, it would be much more effective if the Executive were in place. There has been progress with the parties in the discussions we have just had in establishing how they can come together to represent the interests of Northern Ireland going forward.

On the RHI inquiry, I think everybody wants to see a rapid reporting of that. Clearly, the procedures are a matter for the inquiry itself, but we want the facts on this issue as quickly as we can.

Northern Ireland Assembly Election

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement made by the Secretary of State in the other House. I am saddened to be standing here again responding to this Statement after our discussion last week. I know the whole House shares my regret that we have reached this impasse. We can only imagine the disappointment that is felt in communities across Northern Ireland. It has been only 10 months since voters in Northern Ireland went to the polls and in six weeks’ time, on 2 March, they will be asked to do so again. The Secretary of State has fulfilled a statutory duty to call an election where the positions of First Minister and Deputy First Minister are not filled within a seven-day period.

The Secretary of State must recognise, as I am sure he does, that he has a responsibility not only to call an election but to look to the future of Northern Ireland following that vote, and to work with all parties during this period to continue dialogue and ensure a return to strong, stable devolved government in Northern Ireland as soon as possible. I am sure he understands that the negotiations must always be confidential, not broadcast to the world, but to give people hope there have to be signs that the Secretary of State is being proactive in this period of the election. On that theme, what plans does the Secretary of State have to remain in conversation with all parties, as well as the other guarantor for the Belfast agreement and the Stormont agreement—the Irish Government—to continue a dialogue ahead of the days following the election?

The people of Northern Ireland must not be subjected to six weeks of increasingly acrimonious campaigning that leads nowhere. We have no hesitation in supporting the Government’s call for the political parties to remain open to dialogue and to conduct the election with respect, with a view to the future and the challenges they must face together as an Assembly in order to represent the interests of all the people in Northern Ireland.

We realise that the tension of an election campaign will dominate people’s focus and that the news agenda may be centred on other issues today, about which we have just heard in the previous Statement, but we must not lose sight of what is at stake here. This election and the weeks that follow are critical to the future of the devolved Assembly in Northern Ireland, on which peace and prosperity have been based. A political vacuum and empty Assembly Chambers achieve nothing. We and those on all sides of the political debate wish to see continuing peace and prosperity, a growing economy and an improved quality of life for all in Northern Ireland.

We know that the RHI situation was only one part of what has led us here, and that it shed light on many deeper underlying tensions. Communities in Northern Ireland have still not seen enough progress on how we are to deal with the legacy of its unique and painful past and the experiences of victims and their families in Northern Ireland. While we still look for leadership on this sensitive and ongoing issue, each year brings new challenges of its own. Northern Ireland right now is facing the future of our exit from the EU and the specific impact and changes this will bring to this part of the UK, which is uniquely placed in sharing a land border with an EU member state.

Last week the Secretary of State gave assurances that there will be scope for the voice of Northern Ireland to be heard in the continuing run-up to our UK exit negotiations through the joint ministerial council. We seek further assurances that the election will not disrupt this intention, and that all parties are willing to continue to take part in UK exit negotiations.

We need a stable, working, power-sharing Government to move forward with these issues. This will require responsibility, trust and mutual respect on both sides. We have seen over the past decades what the courage and compassion of the Northern Irish people can achieve and, despite setbacks, we continue to have great faith in what can be done.

The UK Government have a responsibility as a co-guarantor of the Good Friday agreement, and we warmly welcome the explicit reference to those commitments in today’s Statement. The Labour Party is ready to do anything it can to assist the Government in the very serious situation they now face. When people go to the polls in a few weeks’ time, they will be voting for representation, for action and for their future. The priority for all Northern Irish parties and for all in Westminster in the weeks ahead must be to live up to the expectations of the Northern Irish people and return to a stable, functioning devolved Assembly.

We firmly agree with the closing sentiment of the Secretary of State’s Statement, and we hope that all parties will rise to that challenge in the weeks ahead.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement, and I too very much regret that it has not been possible to find a way through the current crisis.

Northern Ireland has come such a very long way since the dark days of the Troubles. A great many people, including many Members of your Lordships’ House, have worked tirelessly, made sacrifices and accepted compromises to ensure that there is now a generation of young people in Northern Ireland who have grown up without the daily threat from terrorism. Like the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland I very much hope that, after the inevitable cut and thrust of the forthcoming election campaign, we can return full-heartedly to this process.

However, the incident in Poleglass at the weekend, where a viable explosive device was discovered, serves as an all-too-clear reminder that this process cannot be taken for granted. I take a moment to pay tribute to the PSNI officers and the Army bomb disposal team who worked in the area to ensure the safety of the local community.

I share the concern expressed by many in recent days that the forthcoming election campaign risks further entrenching division and increasing mistrust between the political parties in the Assembly. Northern Ireland now faces extremely important and difficult negotiations over Brexit—perhaps more so because of the Statement earlier today.

Now, more than ever, the people of Northern Ireland need a strong, functioning Government to ensure that their voice is heard. To that end, can the Minister guarantee that the Secretary of State will continue to consult all political parties in Northern Ireland on Brexit during the election period? Will he consider convening discussion with all political parties, as well as the wider community, in a format that will allow the proper space for informed thinking and debate to ensure the best outcome for all the people of Northern Ireland in the Brexit negotiations?

Finally, will the Minister ensure that there is no delay in establishing an independent inquiry into the RHI scheme? Such an inquiry is desperately needed to help to restore confidence and trust in politics in Northern Ireland.

[Lord Dunlop]

My Lords, I say first how grateful I am for the comments of the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. I understand the disappointment that will be felt on all sides of the House and all sides of the community in Northern Ireland at the situation that we find ourselves in. I give an absolute assurance to the House that the Secretary of State is aware of his responsibility to continue to take matters forward and seek a resolution. I echo the tribute that the noble Baroness paid to the security services and the PSNI, which do so much to keep all the community in Northern Ireland safe.

I also welcome the support of the parties opposite for the need to work together to re-establish strong devolved government in Northern Ireland. The Government are in absolutely no doubt that strong devolved government is in the interests of everyone in Northern Ireland. It is incumbent on all of us to use the time between now and election day to maintain an open dialogue and consider how best to bring people back together once the election is over. In that regard the issue of engagement with the Irish Government was raised and, yes, of course the Government will maintain very close contact with the Irish Government so that we all use our good offices to seek resolution of these very challenging issues.

In the 10 years that Northern Ireland has enjoyed devolved government we have all seen the great strides made, and we owe a duty to the people of Northern Ireland to build on that progress. The UK Government are committed to doing that constructively and positively. As is made clear in the Statement, of course the election will be hotly contested, but we urge all the parties to conduct that election responsibly and with respect. Throughout the period, the Secretary of State and the Government as a whole will certainly keep open lines of communication to create the conditions that give us the best possible chance of establishing a fully functioning Executive after the election.

For the issues of dealing with the legacy of the past and dealing with preparing properly for the Brexit negotiations, it is in everybody’s interest to have a fully functioning Northern Ireland Executive. With regard to preparing for the Brexit negotiations, of course Northern Ireland Executive Ministers will remain in post throughout the period up to the election and invitations to take part in all the various meetings, including the joint ministerial committee, will be issued to the Executive. The Government are very keen to ensure that the Executive are represented as we continue discussions in the JMC.

Of course the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Office as a whole will continue to seek views regarding the Brexit negotiations, and we have been very proactive in engaging stakeholders across Northern Ireland to pin down the key issues that we need to bear in mind. The Prime Minister’s speech today makes clear the priority we attach to Northern Ireland and to ensuring that its voice is heard loud and clear as we prepare for these negotiations.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. This is, as he said, a grave situation, and it is not where any of us want to be.

This House has a long memory and much expertise on its Benches, and we can remember a time when people across Northern Ireland did not know the peace that we see today. There has been a huge amount of progress that inspires hope in Northern Ireland. This was built on the hard work and compassion of the Northern Irish people throughout the community and a great many people across the political divide.

I pay tribute to Sir John Major for his role in a previous Conservative Government in kicking off such discussions. I also pay tribute to the noble Lords, Lord Trimble and Lord Alderdice, for their contribution to the position we have arrived at today. I also thank the many Members of your Lordships’ House who have contributed daily to the good will within the communities and to the peace we have achieved.

For the Labour Party, the Good Friday agreement is one of the greatest legacies of our Labour Government, and the contribution that we made to it was substantial. I am glad to see that my noble friend Lord Murphy of Torfaen is here, because we all remember his terrific contribution to the maintenance of peace in Northern Ireland.

The situation today is a threat to the institutions that peace and reconciliation are based on. The Labour Party has no hesitation in offering its full support and any help that it can give the Secretary of State and the Government in seeking to maintain political stability in Northern Ireland.

We welcome the fact that the Secretary of State is in touch with all the major parties, as well as the Northern Ireland Justice Minister, and that he is in discussion with the Irish Government. We support the aim to facilitate talks and seek a resolution to this impasse before another election becomes inevitable. It may be regarded as a last throw of the dice—as a last resort—but surely, before the seven days is up, the Secretary of State must consider convening a round table of some import with the individuals concerned to have a final go at seizing this situation. However, I totally accept that many people feel that we may be past that point, as the Minister’s Statement made clear.

What discussions has the Secretary of State had about the work that will need to be done to support and stabilise the devolved institutions after the election, if one is called? The Minister referred to the widely held view that an election will change nothing on its own, so what preparation is being made to deal with that set of circumstances and the challenges that might lie ahead?

The Northern Ireland renewable heat incentive scheme was the final catalyst for the events that have brought us here, but the Minister is right to recognise that the situation occurred in the context of existing and far deeper tensions. That context includes a wider failure to resolve issues in dealing with the legacy of the past.

There has been the impression of a political vacuum on this issue in recent months, which has fed instability. I know what goes on behind the scenes, which is not broadcast, but life is about perceptions as well, and the legacy issue has been like a poison feeding into the well of public consciousness in Northern Ireland. I would like to see that work made more visible. What work is under way and what more does the Secretary of State plan to do to earn agreement on a path forward for those coping with the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland?

On the renewable heat incentive scheme, what estimate have the Government made of the cost to the Northern Irish economy of the scheme’s failure? Has the Secretary of State spoken to the major parties in Northern Ireland specifically about setting up a comprehensive and impartial inquiry?

We all want Northern Ireland to look forwards to the future, to prosperity and to an enduring peace agreement. Division gets us nowhere. There are modern challenges facing Northern Ireland, not least of which is ensuring the best deal for the Northern Irish people in the UK’s exit from the European Union. We are at a crucial time for negotiation planning, so I must ask the Minister what impact the Government believe this instability, and a possible election period, will have on the representation of Northern Ireland in talks regarding the UK exit?

The world is watching. As has been said, there is widespread admiration for people on both sides of the community in Northern Ireland, who have come together to ensure peace. The successes after decades of hurt and violence have earned admiration throughout the world. Any damage to the process of peace and reconciliation on our collective watch would be a great discredit to us and a great disservice to the people of Northern Ireland, who I am sure do not relish the thought of a possible election.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement to your Lordships’ House this evening.

As the Secretary of State has said, the truly peaceful society that we all wish to see in Northern Ireland is intricately bound together with politically stable institutions and a strong economy. It is therefore essential that the people of Northern Ireland have confidence that there is a coherent and collective Government in Stormont—a Government who are open and accountable and working in the best interests of the whole of Northern Ireland.

The stability of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland is more important now than ever, given the particular challenges that will be presented by Brexit in the coming months. It is clear that cool heads and calm leadership are needed in order to resolve the current difficulties. It is also clear that the crisis reveals deeper problems than the specific issues that have come to the fore in recent weeks. To that end, will the Minister confirm that the Secretary of State will convene immediate talks with all the political parties in Northern Ireland? Will he also ensure that such talks do not just focus on the immediate issues in relation to the RHI scheme but look at measures to improve openness and transparency in the Executive, the Assembly and politics, including transparency in party funding in Northern Ireland?

Although I welcome the Secretary of State’s support for a comprehensive, transparent and impartial inquiry, can the Minister confirm that the Government will ensure that the establishment of this inquiry is not delayed by yesterday’s announcement, and that, if the Executive fail to establish an inquiry, this Government will consider doing so?

[Lord Dunlop]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their remarks and, in particular, for all the thanks that the noble Lord expressed to all those who have played such an important part in the peace process over the years. I am also very grateful for the support they have given the Government in seeking a resolution to very difficult issues.

This is a time to come together and work together. Everyone in this House wants the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland to succeed. I have no doubt that this is the view of the overwhelming majority of people in Northern Ireland and what they want to see. I have seen for myself, as I have travelled around Northern Ireland over the last six months, the huge progress that is being made and the many positive developments that are happening in all parts of Northern Ireland. The Government want to build on that progress and that is why the Secretary of State and the Government will strain every sinew in the short period ahead to work with all the parties in Northern Ireland to see if we can find a way forward. As the Secretary of State has made clear, he stands ready to assist in any way he can.

A number of specific points were raised. The noble Lord asked about an issue that is clear in the Statement I have just made—that an election may deepen the divisions and may not provide a solution. That is why the Secretary of State is so focused in the coming hours and days on finding a solution to the immediate issues. Regarding legacy, clearly it has been a priority for the Secretary of State to build a consensus on how we move forward from the current, very unsatisfactory situation where we do not have a balanced process in place. We must recall that 90% of the deaths that occurred over the period of the Troubles were the result of terrorist activity. He is absolutely committed to building a consensus on a more balanced and proportionate way forward, building on the Stormont House agreement legacy bodies, and he has articulated the priority he wants to give to that because he would like to move quickly to a public phase.

On the cost estimates of the renewable heat incentive scheme, the Northern Ireland Executive itself has estimated a figure of £490 million over 20 years if there is no mitigation. Clearly, one of the issues we need to deal with in the talks that are taking place with the parties over the next few days is how we mitigate those costs. As for the inquiry, that is absolutely something the Secretary of State is talking to the parties about. We need to establish the facts, accountability and ensure that we have a process that can command confidence. On the implications for the UK’s exit from the EU, the Secretary of State and other Ministers in the Northern Ireland Office, including myself, have been engaging widely to identify the issues that need to be front and centre of the discussions as we proceed towards the negotiations on exit from the EU, and those discussions have included the Northern Ireland Executive. We want to make sure that we get a good deal for Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole, and the Secretary of State is very clear that the voice of Northern Ireland needs to be at the heart of those discussions. Clearly, that would be assisted if there was a fully functioning Northern Ireland Executive.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 (Independent Reporting Commission) Regulations 2016

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his full explanation of the regulations before us. I thank him and his staff for keeping me fully informed on this legislation from day one. That assistance is greatly appreciated.

The Minister mentioned the paramilitaries and referred to work to remove the breeding ground for unjustified paramilitarism. That is very important. Collectively, we have made huge strides in Northern Ireland and that needs to continue. My honourable friend Vernon Coaker, former shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, is long on record as having called for a commission along the lines illustrated by the Minister. I again place on record our full support for the Government’s efforts in this field. The way in which the Government have sought to involve the Opposition and all Members in this matter indicates the bipartisan nature of attitudes towards issues in Northern Ireland.

A number of questions were asked in Committee in the Commons—I am not taking credit for them; I am just picking them up from Hansard. The questions may have been answered elsewhere by letter, but it would be useful if the Minister could either answer them now or, as did his counterpart in the other place, undertake to write. My honourable friend Stephen Pound asked whether the commission’s reports would be laid before the House and whether it would be an annual process or a one-off. He asked also what attitude the Government had to the cross-community aspect of the commission, whether there would be a deliberate effort to make it cross-community or whether any other methods were being considered. As we all know, all communities in Northern Ireland need to feel that they have a stake in whatever happens.

The Minister in the Commons indicated that he would respond in writing on a number of matters. He indicated that he was not sure whether the reports would be placed in the Library or laid before the House. He continued:

“As for sensitivities around the appointments”—

which we all understand—

“there is a detailed process for making them, and I am happy to explain that in writing”.

In the interest of clarity, will the Minister undertake to write to all noble Lords present tonight with responses to the questions asked in the Commons? Stephen Pound MP asked about the appointment of the chair of the commission. Are any proposals on record yet as to how that would be tackled? I want to make it clear that, like anyone else, I appreciate the sensitivities around these issues in Northern Ireland. I do not ask these questions to embarrass anyone or to cause difficulties for the Government, but clarity is needed and we need to know exactly how the appointments work. The Minister in the Commons, Mr Kris Hopkins, said:

“Again, I will write to the hon. Gentleman about appointments to the commission and how appointees are selected, and will give him that information in full”.—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 2/11/16; col. 6.]

If these questions have been answered in writing by the Minister in the Commons, will the Minister repeat those letters?

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, the Liberal Democrats also welcome the regulations. I thank the Minister for his clear explanation of them to the House.

As this is my first intervention from these Benches on Northern Irish issues—I think there are a few fellow Scots around this evening—I shall keep my remarks brief, but I start by paying tribute to my noble friend Lord Alderdice both in his role as a member on the fresh start panel and in his role as spokesman from these Benches for the past six years. His level of expertise and deep understanding of the issues make him an extremely daunting act to follow.

The Independent Reporting Commission is an important part of the fresh start agreement and its role in reporting annually on progress will be vital in shining a light on continued paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland. It will also play a crucial role in reporting the progress that the Northern Ireland Executive, the UK Government and the Irish Government make in implementing measures to reduce paramilitary activity.

In a democratic society there is no place for paramilitary groups and the violence and criminal acts that they perpetrate. A huge amount of time, energy and commitment has gone into sustaining the peace process in Northern Ireland, and that support needs to continue and be enhanced as we move to the next phase, not least because of the extra pressures that the Brexit negotiations will bring. A permanently peaceful society with politically stable institutions and a strong economy in Northern Ireland are intricately linked. Strengthening the economy, tackling social exclusion, overcoming inequalities, delivering efficiency in public services and tackling violence are all essential elements in challenging the division that exists in Northern Ireland.