Operation Brock

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 8th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have reassessed the safety of the contra flow on the M20, installed as part of Operation Brock, following a series of accidents since the installation of barriers.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the Operation Brock contraflow system using barriers on the London-bound carriageway between junctions 8 and 9 of the M20 has been in place since 25 March. Although some incidents have been reported, which is of course regrettable, this is not dissimilar to other roadwork contraflows. Highways England and Kent Police agree that no changes are currently required as a result of these incidents, but they will continue to closely monitor the use of Operation Brock to ensure driver safety.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, there have already been half a dozen accidents, one of which held up the traffic for 13 and a half hours on that short stretch of motorway. That is not normal for motorways in this country. The impact on the rest of the roads in Kent is considerable, because people are seeking to avoid the contraflow. Can the Government give us an assurance that, in the light of yesterday’s criticism from DFDS ferries and Kent County Council, a full audit of the situation will be undertaken? Can the Government undertake to remove the contraflow if and when we resolve our issues on Brexit?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, since Brock became active, five road traffic collisions have been reported to Highways England, although that is yet to be validated as an official statistic. It is not dissimilar to other contraflows; there have been five incidents in the same period within the adjacent M20 smart motorways roadwork. However, I reassure noble Lords that Highways England will closely monitor the performance of the contraflow and ensure that the M20 continues to operate safely. The point of Operation Brock is to ensure that the M20 does not close down, which would obviously have a terrible effect on local roads. Both Highways England and Kent Police will continually monitor the situation.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, is not the answer to contraflows to set appropriate speed limits and then enforce them? I have seen many people caught speeding in contraflows. If speed limits are properly enforced, surely that will reduce accidents.

[Baroness Sugg]

The noble Lord is right to point out the benefits of having speed limits within contraflows. For safety reasons, there has been a speed reduction in the area while the contingency is in place: for the freight side the limit has been reduced to 30 miles per hour, and for the non-freight traffic travelling in the contraflow it is now 50 miles per hour. Highways England has redeployed 80 traffic officers to support Operation Brock, which will ensure that there are 30 on duty at any time. That action will ensure proper enforcement measures. We are also considering activating speed cameras and further signage.

[Lord Swinfen (Con)]

My Lords, is not the trouble on the M20 often caused by strikes in France, so it is not in fact our fault at all?

[Baroness Sugg]

Operation Brock is designed to be an improvement on Operation Stack, which we saw huge problems with in 2015. We actually used Operation Stack in mid-March; that was caused by high winds. My noble friend is right to point out that disruption can have a number of causes. That is why we have the contraflow in place: to ensure that we can deal with any disruption.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will know that my rule of transport safety is: if it can go wrong, it will go wrong. That seems to have proved true in this case already. Accidents will create enormous delays and completely destroy the whole operation. Can she assure us that everything is being done to reduce the risk to as low as reasonably practical?

[Baroness Sugg]

As I said, there is no evidence for the cause of the current accidents, but we are of course looking at the circumstances around each collision and considering what can be done to prevent future incidents. Highways England has already reduced the spacing between cones on the coast-bound carriageway to reduce the risk of illegal parking. Additionally, the junction 8 coast-bound entrance slipway, which is currently closed, has had CCTV infrastructure installed. The department is assured that Highways England is doing everything it can to reduce the risk of accidents.

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)]

My Lords, of the existing places where the vehicles are going to be checked, one is very close to the Port of Dover and the second is very close to Eurotunnel, with the danger that they will themselves generate enough congestion to trigger Operation Brock when it might not have been necessary. What other locations are being considered and when might we expect them to open?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, of course we aim to ensure that all movement through ports will continue to be as frictionless as possible in a no-deal scenario so that the effects on businesses using the Port of Dover and the Channel Tunnel are minimised. To achieve this, our modelling for roll-on roll-off freight moves the customs processes away from the border. Furthermore, in early February HMRC announced transitional simplified procedures, which will help businesses using those facilities. But, as I say, we are working hard to mitigate any disruption caused by additional checks.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the M20 provides access to the Cinque Ports, which of course gathered together in a time of crisis because our nation did not have enough ships. Does the Minister think there is a similar technique we could use to resolve the problem we have at the moment of too few ships?

[Baroness Sugg]

I am not sure I can comment on that specific solution. We are of course working very closely with the local resilience forums and all ports to ensure that we mitigate disruption wherever possible.

Heavy Duty Vehicles (Emissions and Fuel Consumption) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 27th March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 26 February be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 25 March.

Motion agreed.

Heavy Duty Vehicles (Emissions and Fuel Consumption) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Heavy Duty Vehicles (Emissions and Fuel Consumption) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, these draft regulations will be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be required if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. The regulations correct deficiencies in EU regulation 2018/956, which concerns the monitoring and reporting of CO₂ emissions from, and fuel consumption of, HDVs—heavy duty vehicles—such as trucks, buses and coaches.

Emissions from the UK HDV sector made up 16% of CO₂ emissions from transport in 2016. At the European level, HDVs account for about a quarter of road transport emissions. To address this, the European Commission introduced three measures. The first was the introduction, through the certification regulations in December 2017, of a new computer based tool, VECTO, which came into effect from 1 January 2019. The second measure is monitoring and reporting regulations, which the statutory instrument we are debating today is based on. The final measure of the package is a legislative proposal to set CO₂ emission standards for new HDVs, which was agreed by the Environment Council on 20 December 2018.

The monitoring and reporting EU regulation—the second measure—came into force on 29 July 2018. It requires member states and HDV manufacturers to monitor certain data relating to the CO₂ emissions and fuel consumption of new HDVs registered in the EU from 1 January 2019. Manufacturers must report that data to the European Commission from 28 February 2020. The Commission will hold a database, verify data quality and compile and publish an annual report. There are provisions for administrative fines for HDV manufacturers if these data requirements are not met.

The publication of data collected under the regulation will increase the transparency of HDV CO₂ emissions and fuel consumption and underpin the new emission reduction targets. It will provide transport operators access to information on the performance of HDVs of different makes with similar characteristics, allowing them to make better-informed purchasing decisions. It also enables vehicle manufacturers to compare their vehicles’ performance with their competitors, providing an increased incentive for innovation. Finally, publication allows the analysis of the data, for example to assess the penetration level of certain technologies and to support the proposed future CO₂ emission reduction standards for HDVs.

The regulations that we are discussing today amend the EU regulation to ensure that it continues to function correctly after exit day. Through this SI, all relevant data calculated in line with the certification regulation will be monitored, reported and published. The data will be available to all stakeholders. The main policy content, including the purpose and objectives of the current EU regulation, remains unchanged by this SI. Provisions about the monitoring and reporting timetable, data to be monitored, HDVs in scope, fines and publication of data will also remain unchanged.

The focus of these amendments is on ensuring that the EU regulation will continue to apply to HDVs registered in the UK after exit day, and to transfer responsibilities from the Commission to the Secretary of State. For example, after EU exit manufacturers will need to report data for new HDVs registered in the UK to the Secretary of State and not to the Commission, and any fines would be levied in pounds rather than euros.

Given the minor changes proposed, a formal consultation has not carried out. However, the Government have made stakeholders aware of this instrument and their plan for its introduction into UK law.

Correcting the inoperabilities within the existing EU regulation will ensure that there continues to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime which allows for the collection and monitoring of HDV emissions data in a no-deal scenario. As set out in the Government’s strategy The Road to Zero, we are committed to,

“a future approach as we leave the European Union that is at least as ambitious as the current arrangements for vehicle emissions regulation”.

This SI supports that commitment. I beg to move.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, I presume that when Constantinople or Rome fell, there were still committees sitting somewhere in both cities looking at issues such as drainage and transport. The record should show that the House of Lords has felt it necessary to adjourn at this moment but the Committee looking at statutory instruments for exiting the European Union continues to sit. Of course, this instrument has been introduced by the Minister with her usual clarity and good sense.

We welcome the commitment by the Government to continue with the monitoring of CO₂ from heavy goods vehicles. It is important to ensure that the UK is meeting its target in relation to emissions and air quality, and reporting is key to keeping us on track for reducing emissions and air pollution. However, we have to face the fact that, by leaving the European Union, we will lose its valuable oversight in ensuring that the Government comply with air quality legislation.

We have not been the greatest pathfinder in terms of environmental protection. I once worked for the water industry and, following European legislation, that industry was dragged kicking and screaming into what was probably the 19th century at the time, and I think that the same may be true of air quality. I am not sure that we will be as good at this on our own. We need to prioritise the reduction of emissions, given the thousands of deaths being caused every year and the serious impact they can have on health, particularly on that of children.

These regulations were initially conceived in tandem with targets for CO₂ reduction that were suggested by the Commission and revised by the European Parliament. Will the targets set by the Government keep in tandem with any standards set by the EU Commission and Parliament?

We welcome the use of the ambitious CO₂ reduction targets, but we must ensure that the industry is sufficiently supported to meet them. What are the Government doing to encourage the adoption of ZEV/LEV HDVs—I am pleased to note that, after I inquired earlier, the Minister knows what that means—be that through subsidies or improvements in the infrastructure? How will we help the industry to keep pace with developments of zero and low-emission HDVs? Do the Government envisage that the fines levied against those who fail to comply with the data gathering will be in line with those proposed by the EU, and will they keep pace with the fines to ensure compliance?

The instrument provides for further regulations to be made to set out the procedures by which manufacturers can notify the Secretary of State of errors in data. That will be key to ensuring that we have an effective and transparent system. When will those regulations be brought forward?

These regulations were brought forward by the European Union as part of a wide package of measures to ensure that Europe’s future mobility system is,

“safe, clean and efficient for all EU citizens”.

What impact could our exit from the EU have on our future plans to reduce harmful emissions?

Finally, the Minister mentioned that it was not thought necessary to go through a formal consultation process, but were environmental and health groups consulted in any way during the discussions? Some have made accusations of a lack of transparency while the regulations were considered.

Further, what continuing access will we have to EU-wide data collection and analysis in order to drive up standards and related matters? Are we not cutting ourselves off from the best practice data which helps to drive good standards?

As I say, we welcome the way in which the instrument has been presented and the work done, but it leaves these questions unanswered.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft regulations. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord McNally, about the importance of addressing the issues around air quality, and of course emissions from transport vehicles are a key part of that. Our aim as a Government is to put the UK at the forefront of the design and manufacture of zero-emission vehicles, with all new cars and vans being effectively zero emission by 2040. We recently published our strategy The Road to Zero, which sets out a clear pathway to zero emissions and an end to the sale of new conventional petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2040, with the aim that by 2050 almost every car and van will be zero emission. The aim is that at least half of new cars will be ultra low emission by 2030.

In respect of HDVs, which we are discussing today, we want to see the development and deployment of zero-emission vehicles. For example, we have agreed an industry-wide voluntary commitment from the freight industry to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 15% by 2025, and we are working closely with the industry to develop an ultra low emissions standard for trucks and increasing the supply and sustainability of alternative low-carbon fuels. The SI we are considering today supports those aims by maintaining the current CO₂ emission monitoring and reporting requirements and underpins the new regulation which is currently being finalised before being brought forward.

The noble Lord asked about fines. The fine levels will remain the same as those set out in the European regulation, albeit having been translated into pounds rather than euros. The powers in the regulation and the SI do not allow for a change to the level of the fines, so they will stay the same.

The noble Lord also asked about consultation. As I said in my opening speech, given the limited impact of this SI on industry and businesses, a formal consultation has not been carried out, but there was a full consultation when the initial EU regulation came into force. That was carried out by the Commission. It was a full, open and public consultation, which received around 100 replies, and of course environmental groups were closely involved in the formation of the regulation. However, as we are keeping things the same, we have not spoken specifically to environmental groups about this SI.

On the new CO₂ emission standards regulation, the EU has provisionally agreed targets and incentives for HDVs to 2025 and 2030. They are due to be agreed by the European Parliament later this month and, once agreed, they will come into legal effect via a new European regulation. As that is yet to be finalised and adopted, how its requirements might be implemented in the UK will depend on when that is achieved, but our commitment to tackle climate change remains strong. We know that we must do more to meet our collective commitments on climate change and, indeed, the UK Government was one of those who led the way on increasing our ambition during the recent EU negotiations on emissions reduction as well as on standards for passenger and light commercial vehicles. As I have said, in the strategy The Road to Zero, the Government have committed that, as we leave the EU, we will ensure that we are at least as ambitious as the current arrangements for vehicle emissions regulations.

On data sharing, raised by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, one of the key advantages of the EU regulation is that the data will be published and shared. Currently, the data will be reported by manufacturers in member states of the EU, and the Commission will maintain and manage its publication. It will be published annually from 31 October 2020 and the data will be openly available. Although some of it is commercially sensitive and thus exempt from publication, we expect the vast majority to be published. The commercially sensitive data exemption was agreed at European level and that is set within the regulations. It means that it will be published more in the form of a range rather than exact points. However, only data that is genuinely commercially sensitive will be withheld. We will replicate the data publication for UK-registered vehicles in the event of no deal. The content and the date of the report are set in the original EU regulations and are carried over by the withdrawal Act. That will not change, so it will still be possible to use UK data as a comparison against EU data—aside from the data that will be exempted for commercially sensitive reasons, and that will be the same for the EU and the UK. All the data will be openly available, and the EU 27 plus the UK will be able to be looked at side by side.

The preamble to the EU regulation provides background only and its content is not legally binding. The entire regulation will be carried over into UK law, but the targets set will be met through future regulations. The content and the preamble will stay, but specific targets will be set through future legislation.

I think that I have answered all the questions. I will go through Hansard and check. If I have not answered any questions, I will follow up on them in writing.

This SI is essential to ensuring that we maintain control of HDVs registered to travel on UK roads and that the system to support that continues to function from day one after EU exit. It will help us to reach our climate change goals and ensure that we do all we can to improve air quality.

Motion agreed.

Railway (Licensing of Railway Undertakings) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 25 February be approved.

Relevant document: 17th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee A).

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, in moving the regulations I will also speak to the Train Driving Licences and Certificates (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. These regulations are being made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed in the event that the UK leaves the EU without a deal. The regulations fix deficiencies in two sets of domestic railway regulations and EU implementing legislation: the Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations 2010, the TDL regulations; and the Railway (Licensing of Railway Undertakings) Regulations 2005, the operator regulations.

As part of the measures aimed at liberalising rail markets, the EU introduced standard documentation for train driving licences and rail operator licences. These documents are valid across the European Economic Area. The Office of Rail and Road—the ORR—is responsible for issuing train driving and operator licences in the UK. Subject to meeting certain criteria, such as medical and competence requirements, the ORR will issue a train driving licence valid for up to 10 years. Train drivers also need a certificate, issued by the operator, confirming that the driver is competent to drive a certain type of train on the infrastructure. Operator licences are issued subject to the operator meeting certain conditions, including financial fitness and having necessary insurance cover. In Northern Ireland the Department for Infrastructure is the licensing authority.

The Train Driving Licences and Certificates (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations amend the TDL regulations and three pieces of EU implementing legislation. The regulations will ensure that the train driving legislation will continue to function after exit day by making a number of technical changes. They remove reporting requirements to the Commission, references to member states and functions reserved for the EU Commission and the European Union Agency for Railways. The regulations also amend the definition of a “train driving licence” so it refers only to ORR-issued train driving licences. In addition, changes are needed to ensure that licences issued in Northern Ireland are valid for use in Great Britain and to make corrections to the EU implementing legislation that applies to both GB and NI.

The Railway (Licensing of Railway Undertakings) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations make similar technical corrections, removing references to member states and replacing references to EU legislation with references to domestic legislation. The most significant amendment is to rename the “European licence” as a “railway undertaking licence”, though the cost, criteria and processes for obtaining a licence will not change. The draft regulations also revoke implementing regulation 2015/171. This EU regulation sets out a standard template for the form of an operator licence and details on the procedure of applying for a licence. These will not be required post exit as this detail is already incorporated into the ORR’s procedures, which are published on its website in accordance with the operator regulations.

Both sets of regulations also make transitional provisions that recognise existing European documentation, issued in EEA states, for a maximum of two years after exit day or until it expires, whichever is the sooner. In short, existing train drivers and operators providing services in Great Britain will not have to take any immediate action if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, regardless of where their documents were issued. There are a small number of drivers in the EU using ORR-issued licences, which will not be automatically recognised in a no-deal scenario. Departmental officials have worked with the regulator and operators to ensure that these drivers are aware of the need to obtain an EU licence. There are also UK operators providing services in the EU. All these operators already have licences issued in the country they are providing services in, so will be unaffected.

These draft regulations support the smooth continuation of cross-border services, such as Eurostar, by ensuring that EU-licensed train drivers engaged in cross-border services will continue to be able to operate in the UK. The Government are actively engaging with a range of European counterparts, including relevant member states, to secure bilateral agreements for cross-border rail services. These discussions include arrangements for longer-term recognition of train driver licences and operator licences. Bilateral discussions are progressing well, and we are confident of having measures in place in time for exit day.

By removing certain administrative requirements, the draft operator regulations technically widen the scope of who can be charged an application fee by the ORR for an operator licence and of who could be captured by the existing criminal offence of driving or operating on the railway without an appropriate licence. Consequently, these draft regulations are subject to the affirmative procedure. In Northern Ireland, the role of issuing these licences falls to the Department for Infrastructure and a separate instrument is being taken forward on behalf of Northern Ireland.

We have worked closely with the ORR and have engaged with industry to provide as much certainty as possible. The regulations are an important part of our no deal preparations, providing clarity for business and certainty for drivers. I beg to move.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for bringing these regulations to the attention of the House. We have only got a week to go, and if we do not pass them today there may not be any trains running after 29 March—so well done the Department for Transport for leaving it to the last minute.

I have a couple of questions on both SIs. On the licensing of railway undertakings regulations—this is not clear to me and maybe this is not part of these regulations—I was talking to a train operator, from a UK company which has a licence in this country and also operates railway services in other member states, who explained that the company was having trouble in finding out whether its UK licence, in other words its licence to operate in the UK, would be valid in other member states after Brexit. Such companies try hard, often in competition with other incumbents, and it is a strain on their business and management set-ups if they still do not know whether they will be able to operate, either under a new franchise or in continuation of an existing one, after next week. I note that in paragraph 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum, as the Minister said in her introduction, there is a two-year window for these licences to continue. However, I am not sure whether that occurs in the other direction, and I would be grateful if she could respond to that.

I have two issues on the train driving licences and certificates regulations. Will UK drivers operating in France, the Channel Tunnel or other member states need to take driving tests in France and, if so, when? Is there a two-year window or when will it happen? This concerns not only Eurostar because in the future there might be other companies operating services through the tunnel, as well as rail freight. I declare an interest as having been chairman of the Rail Freight Group. These regulations add a great deal of bureaucracy, and I would be glad to hear what arrangements will be required for drivers with licences from other member states to come here. Is there a two-year window there?

My second comment relates to paragraph 7.8 of the Explanatory Memorandum. This SI removes the duty to inform the Commission on licences and safety matters and, presumably, vice versa. The statement that we do not need to tell the Commission anymore and it does not need to tell us is putting our head in the sand about anything to do with railway safety. Railways are rule-based operations and the more common rules we have the easier it goes. The transfer of information on safety, accidents, driver qualifications and so on, in the widest possible sense, is surely good for the safe operation of our railways. The text of paragraph 7.8 and elsewhere is drafted in a very negative way. Even if there is not a requirement—I think there should be—to exchange data, I hope the Minister will say that the ORR and the European Railway Agency should be encouraged to exchange data and participate in putting it together in common, European co-ordinated, long-term information about the safety performance of railways over the years. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, the House will be grateful to my noble friend for tabling this Motion to Regret—

[Baroness Sugg]

We have not quite got to the Motion to Regret yet. We are starting with the two SIs.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I strongly support what my noble friend Lord Berkeley said. I feel very passionately on this subject. First, one of the great things we have seen in the past two decades is the expansion of cross-border rail services. It is important for freight, where in the long term we want to try to take as much lorry traffic off the roads as possible, and it is also very important for expanding passenger networks across Europe and providing a real alternative to air travel, which has damaging effects on climate. I understand my noble friend’s concerns about why we are not promoting the maximum exchange of information and co-operation with our European partners in the event of Brexit.

Secondly, I would like assurances about rail services on the island of Ireland. This is very important to good relations between Britain and Ireland. The development of railways on the island of Ireland is a way of encouraging tourism in north and south. I would like to hear from the Minister that nothing is being done that will in any way be a barrier to the development of that co-operation.

--- Later in debate ---

There are other references, but the area I would like the Minister to expand on in some detail is the whole situation of the Channel Tunnel. How will it be legal for UK drivers to drive through the tunnel and then on to Brussels, Paris and, I hope, other destinations in Europe, as my noble friend Lord Berkeley pointed out? Is that flexibility already allowed for through other treaties, or will it require further bilateral agreements?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft regulations. I agree with all noble Lords that sharing information is very important, not least because of safety. There will still be a power, rather than a duty, to share information on train driving licences with other member states. That will enable mutual sharing arrangements to be put in place. It is our long-term aspiration to continue to share that information.

On numbers of driving licences, the vast majority of people driving trains in the UK have an ORR-issued licence. There are around 250 drivers in the UK who have licences issued under the EEA. Those licences will be recognised for up to two years. In answer to the point from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, it is up to two years because they may expire before then. If they do, they will need to be replaced. That two years is from exit day, which is currently defined as 29 March, but if that definition changes, it will be two years on from that.

[Lord Berkeley]

Going back to the Minister’s last comment about sharing information, paragraph 7.8 of the Explanatory Memorandum on train driving licences says:

“The duty to inform EEA safety authorities will be replaced by a discretionary power to provide such information for the two-year period during which European licences continue to be recognised, and then will cease altogether”.


That is not quite the same. I understand what she says about wanting to continue to share information, but that does not appear to be the intent of this document.

[Baroness Sugg]

I presume that that is the case because we have the two-year implementation period and our future relationship will be subject to negotiations. As I said, our long-term aspiration is to share that information. We think a legal duty is inappropriate, because another authority might refuse to receive information or co-operate, so we would not be able to fulfil that duty.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Can my noble friend imagine any circumstances whatever in which the British Government would not want to share such information with our neighbours? Why on earth are we talking about negotiation? Of course we will do that and of course they will want to do that with us. What are we talking about?

[Baroness Sugg]

As I said previously, it is absolutely our intention to continue to share information. It is important that we do so, not least because of safety. We will continue to have a very close relationship with our European neighbours, and we very much hope to share the information with them. Obviously, they will have to accept that information from us, but our long-term aspiration is to continue to share it.

[Baroness Altmann]

I know my noble friend is in a difficult position, but it is rather difficult for the House when the SI we are considering says that the exchange of information will cease altogether after the two-year period. I share the concerns expressed by my noble friend Lord Deben.

[Baroness Sugg]

I hope that I am able to provide further reassurance that we wish to continue to share information with our neighbours. Obviously, the exact format of that and how we do it will be subject to our future relationship.

On the number of licensed operators, there are 250 drivers in the UK. We are confident that they will relicense with the ORR within the next two years. We notified the industry of this requirement in 2017. Train operators would normally do this on behalf of their drivers in almost every case.

A small number of drivers are using ORR-issued licences in the EU. These will not be recognised in a no-deal scenario, but we have worked with the regulator and operators to ensure that those drivers are aware of the need to obtain an EU licence. I am sorry that the driver who the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, spoke to was not aware of that. If I can get some more information on that, perhaps we can get in contact with them and make sure they are aware.

Following engagement with operators, we are confident that they are aware of everything that they need to do. The technical notices that we published back in October set out the position. We are confident that all relevant operators will have relicensed their train drivers before exit.

A number of noble Lords mentioned the Channel Tunnel. Under EU law, Eurotunnel, as an operator of the shuttle service, is not required to hold and operate a licence. It is a unique cross-border operation and is therefore unaffected by the operator licensing provisions. Eurotunnel engages both UK and French-licensed train drivers to operate its shuttle services. Its ORR-licensed train drivers will be unaffected by these regulations. The Government are working closely with European counterparts, including France, on bilateral arrangements for train drivers operating the freight service and the shuttle service through the Channel Tunnel. The intention is to ensure that the current licensing arrangements are maintained, meaning that Eurotunnel can continue to engage both UK and EU-licensed train drivers in its shuttle operation.

We are also supporting operators with contingency plans. We strongly support the EU’s proposed contingency measures on rail, which will help mitigate any disruption to Eurotunnel shuttle services regarding train driving licences and provide more time for the bilateral arrangements which we expect to be put in place.

The draft regulations from the EU cover UK-issued licences, certificates and authorisations, remaining valid for cross-border rail services for nine months from the date of exit. That will cover both Channel Tunnel services and cross-border services on the island of Ireland. COREPER endorsed this on 20 March. The proposal is expected to be adopted by written procedure tomorrow by the Council of Ministers, and we expect it to take effect early next week. We strongly support those contingency measures. Our future arrangements may well be bilateral, but that nine-month period gives us enough time to get them into place.

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

I am sure everything the Minister says is accurate and that if I understood the treaty I would understand what she said, but can we translate it into practical terms? By Eurostar services, I assume that she means those to Brussels and Paris—and some intermediate stops which I cannot remember. I think she is telling the House that, on Saturday week, those services will be able to run; and I think she said that the shuttle service would be able to run. But say somebody wants to start a service—as people do aspire to—from London to Milan; is there a bilateral agreement that will allow that to happen or is it one of the many that would have to be negotiated? What if we start running a wider variety of services through the tunnel, such as London to Milan or London to Lyons, through France and into a third country?

[Baroness Sugg]

The regulation refers to services that are currently running, which will not be affected on day one or after. New services will be subject to separate authorisation and agreements. We hope that our future bilateral arrangements with member states would allow those new services to function, but, at the moment, the proposed regulations cover existing ones.

On the island of Ireland, the draft regulations make provision for licensing arrangements in Great Britain, with the exception of technical corrections to EU-implemented legislation with effect in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. A separate instrument is being taken forward on behalf of Northern Ireland. As with Channel Tunnel services, the UK is engaging very closely with Irish authorities, as well as with the operators of the Enterprise service, to make sure that appropriate arrangements are in place to see the continued smooth function of that service in the event of no deal. Licences issued by Northern Ireland will be valid in the UK and the draft EU regulation will support the smooth running of cross-border services, so that there will be no disruption there.

The Government are, of course, committed to maintaining high safety standards on our railways. We will probably come on to this in our next debate, on future divergence, but we are clear that we will continue to fully engage with industry to look at the impacts—particularly the safety, commercial and cost impacts—of future changes in our railways.

There was a full consultation on operator licences, as part of the consultation on implementing the market pillar directive of the fourth railway package in the UK. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, rightly pointed out that we had a workshop on train driving licences. Unions were invited to attend, but I do not believe that they did. However, there has been extensive engagement between cross-border operators and the unions on arrangements for the licensing of their drivers in the event of no deal. As I have said before, the vast majority of drivers in the UK will be unaffected by this. The Secretary of State has also written to the general secretary of the ASLEF union, outlining our preparations and the actions that industry should be taking in advance of 29 March.

There will be no substantive increase in the ORR’s workload as a consequence of this. On exit day there will be no change to the validity of any existing licences being used. Currently, only one operator providing train services in Great Britain is using a licence issued by an EU member state. After two years, that operator will need to apply to the ORR, but there is no further burden on their resources.

I hope that I have answered noble Lords’ questions—

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

The noble Baroness has accepted that bilateral negotiations will be necessary in order to extend services through the tunnel to other destinations. Have these started? Is there clarity on who to talk to? Have there been any informal discussions to give us some optimism that there will be favourable outcomes?

[Baroness Sugg]

Bilateral conversations have indeed started. They have not yet been finalised; we would have been able to finalise an agreement in time for exit day had the EU regulations not come into force. I am not entirely sure whether future services are part of those conversations, but we very much hope we can ensure they can happen after we leave the European Union. We are working very closely with all our European counterparts, including France, regarding bilateral arrangements on licensing and certification, the existing international rail freight services, and passenger services. Given the EU regulations, we are confident of mitigating the disruption to those services. As I say, we are also working very closely with the rail operators to make sure they are prepared and hold valid EU licences where they need them and certificates to continue operating in the EU in the event of no deal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

I fear that I have done only nearly 40 statutory instruments in this Chamber or in the Moses Room. The noble Lord has the happy responsibility of covering more than one department, unlike myself. But I agree with the noble Lord that it has taken up a significant amount of my time, my department’s time and officials’ time. I am not able to quantify exactly how many hours that has been. We are hopeful of reaching agreement with the EU, so that we will not need these no-deal SIs. However, until it is agreed by the European Union and the date of our exit is changed by both Houses of Parliament, we will need to continue to put these in place—they are necessary.

These draft regulations will ensure that our train driver and operator licensing system continues to function effectively when we leave the EU. Maintaining the status quo as regards the requirements and duties placed on train drivers and operators is necessary to ensure that the licensing regime remains robust. These SIs deliver the Government’s objective of maintaining the status quo, avoiding uncertainty for train drivers and operators in respect of train driving licensing and certification and operator licensing. I think I have answered most questions, and I will write to the noble Lord on paragraph 7.7. I commend the regulations to the House.

Motion agreed.

Common Rules for Access to the International Market for Coach and Bus Services (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 26 February be approved.

Relevant document: 20th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee B).

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the regulations that we are considering will be made under powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed in the event of no deal. This instrument amends the retained EU legislation governing access to the international passenger transport market and associated domestic implementing legislation to deal with deficiencies that would otherwise exist when the UK leaves the EU.

EU regulation 1073/2009 establishes the conditions for the international carriage of passengers by coach and bus within the EU and cabotage within member states by non-resident EU operators. It covers regular timetabled services and occasional services such as holidays and tours. It establishes for this purpose a system of Community licences, which act as the international bus and coach licences used within the EU, and enables these licences to be issued by the competent authorities of member states.

Section 3 of the withdrawal Act will preserve EU regulation 1073/2009 in domestic law, and Section 2 will preserve implementing domestic legislation, including the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and the Road Transport (International Passenger Services) Regulations 2018. This SI adjusts the language and references in those pieces of retained legislation, and five other pieces of legislation, to recognise that the UK is no longer a member state.

The SI also amends the retained UK version of regulation 1073/2009 to allow EU-based operators to continue to access the UK market in a no-deal scenario on a unilateral basis by means of the recognition of Community licences and control documents—other than new authorisations for regular services—issued by EU authorities under EU legislation. Existing authorisations for international regular services into the UK will continue to be recognised to avoid any additional administrative burden for operators.

This SI also covers Northern Ireland in its territorial extent. The devolved Administration have to make some consequential changes to their devolved legislation, and that is subject to a separate instrument.

The retained regulation 1073/2011 will apply only to EU-based operators. In the event of no deal, UK operators will be able to continue to access the EU market through accession to the Interbus agreement. This is an EU multilateral agreement that allows bus and coach operators to carry out occasional services between the participating countries—currently, the EU and seven other contracting parties in eastern Europe. At present, the UK is party to the agreement through its EU membership. Although the agreement currently covers only occasional services it is being extended to cover regular services, but this process has not yet concluded.

As part of contingency planning for no deal, the Government have deposited their instrument of accession to the Interbus agreement. This means that the UK will become a contracting party to the agreement in its own right. Due to the way the rules of the Interbus agreement apply, this will happen on 1 April. The Government are currently working closely with the European Commission to agree a way to close the two-day gap if we leave without a deal on 29 March.

In acknowledgment of the fact that the extension of the Interbus agreement to regular services will not be in place by exit day, the European Commission has extended the scope of its measure for an EU regulation on common rules ensuring basic road freight connectivity to include regular passenger services. This regulation was formally adopted by EU Ministers on Tuesday and will apply to UK passenger transport operators running regular services to and from the EU for the first nine months after exit, if we should leave without a deal. The Commission’s proposal is based on the UK reciprocating, and the draft regulations that we are considering today will reciprocate those conditions for EU operators in the UK.

Coach travel provides a low-cost, safe and environmentally friendly way to travel. Coaches from continental Europe bring in some 1.6 million visitors each year, and in Northern Ireland travel across the border is a commonplace daily activity, with 900,000 journeys per annum. These regulations allow for the continuation of EU bus and coach services in the UK and reciprocate the EU regulation so that UK regular services can continue to operate to and from the EU.

These regulations are essential to support our tourism industry and to ensure that international services can continue to run. I beg to move.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for bringing this SI and for her introduction. She has probably answered my question, but from reading paragraph 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum it looked as if UK operators would not be able to operate on the continent from 30 March. I think she has confirmed that that is no longer the case because of these more recent agreements. I hope we will be able to see a continuation of this important traffic without any interruption. What the French customs and immigration people do is of course a different matter, but let us hope that at least the services can run. I hope this will continue and that therefore the services that go to many member states across Europe can continue without getting bogged down in too much bureaucracy. As the Minister has said, it is a very important market.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, this SI is a little complex. It seems to be about timing. One gets an uncomfortable feeling that the Government had tackled aviation, marine and road haulage when suddenly someone woke up and said, “We’d better do coaches”. As you read through the Explanatory Memorandum, initially it seems to be an asymmetric situation where EU operators get all the provisions that they have now but UK operators do not, and then you turn to paragraph 7.3, which says:

“The EU have proposed a legislative change that will extend many of the provisions of the existing market access Regulations till 31 December 2019”.


Extending “many” means that it does not extend all. Could the Minister spell out which provisions of the existing market access are not allowed under this agreement? Has the agreement become EU law? I believe the answer is yes, but I would like her to spell that out in simple language. If it is the law that I am thinking of, it declines and then expires on 31 December 2019.

Having not declared any interests in coach operations, I confess that I know nothing about the Interbus deal. Could the Minister spell out what it will mean if it is fully ratified, as is implied in the Explanatory Memorandum? Will it give UK operators the same freedoms as they have now? If not, could she spell out the freedoms that they will not have? Will the Interbus agreement supersede the necessity for the special arrangements that I believe the EU has introduced?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions. Turning to the questions on consultation from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I say that the aim of this legislation is to maintain the status quo as far as possible through technical amendments to the existing regime. We have engaged with the Confederation of Passenger Transport, as the main industry representative, and the Federation of Passenger Transport Northern Ireland, the FPTNI. The industry has been supportive of the application to join Interbus, as this will give liberalised, unlimited access to run occasional services in the EU, which covers the vast majority of activity by GB operators. There is little use of cabotage on occasional services, because UK carriers are normally taking the same group of passengers to a destination in the EU, then bringing them back.

We have been working closely with industry to make sure it is informed. While this SI makes technical changes, this SI, the EU regulation and the accession to the Interbus agreement together give maintenance of the status quo. Letters are going out to every operator which holds an international licence, to inform them about future processes. The trade association, the Confederation of Passenger Transport, is making members aware via social media, newsletters and email, and the information on GOV.UK which the noble Baroness referred to.

The noble Baroness asked about the effect on the International Road Freight Office. Relatively few authorisations are required by EU operators. We expect there to be about 150, rather than 600—600 is the top end of the estimation. There is a simple process; operators have to pay only for postage and, possibly, translation. Some operators already apply directly through the IRFO rather than their home member state, so we do not expect there to be a huge effect.

There is an issue with this two-day gap. It might be helpful if I explain why we have it. The Interbus agreement can come into effect only on the first of the month. If we had laid the SI earlier, the agreement would still have come into effect on the first of the month, as the agreement itself specifies that. We cannot become a contracting party until we leave the European Union. We are working closely with the European Commission to find a solution to overcome that gap in provision—

[Baroness Randerson]

Have I understood this correctly? Suppose we were to leave the European Union on the 15th of the month—I am plucking a date out of the air—we could not access the Interbus agreement until the first day of the following month. Therefore, we should be grateful that it is only a two-day gap, because it could be a gap of about 28 days, if things work out wrongly.

[Baroness Sugg]

The noble Baroness is right: we are grateful that it is only a two-day gap. Should we not leave on 29 March, we may have a longer gap to contend with. However, we are working closely with the Commission and are very optimistic about getting a solution. Our preferred approach is to deposit a note verbale with the General Secretariat of the Council, stating that we propose that our accession be treated as coming into effect on the first day of exit. Once we have resolved that, we hope that we will be covered regardless of the length of the gap. That is particularly important for Northern Ireland, as I believe there are some major sporting events going on which will require lots of cross-border travel.

The Interbus agreement provides for liberalised occasional coach services—holidays, school trips and private tours between contracting parties. As I mentioned in my opening speech, those parties are the European Union and seven eastern European members. We intend to accede to the protocol of the agreement in our right regarding the international regular and special regular carriage of passengers by coach and bus. The protocol to expand the service to regular services is in progress.

The noble Baroness points out that the process has been quite slow. It opened on 16 July 2018. As of 13 March, no contracting parties had signed the protocol. We need only four contracting parties; obviously we will be able to sign it once we become a contracting party. We think we will see other signatories join but, if it is not in place by 31 December, we could either negotiate an extension for regular and special regular passenger services with the EU, which are covered under the current EU regulation, or seek to put bilateral agreements in place. At the moment, we think Interbus is the best solution to provide regular services, but we have options if that is not the case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

On 1 January 2020, by which time the EU regulation will have expired, and assuming there are a satisfactory number of signatures to the Interbus agreement, to what extent will the situation for UK operators be different from the situation today?

[Baroness Sugg]

On 1 January 2020, assuming that we have all the signatories that we need and the Interbus agreement is in place, the main issue will be cabotage, as the Interbus agreement does not cover cabotage. UK operators will not be able to provide cabotage in the EU. There would be a separate arrangement for that for Ireland, but UK operators will not be able to do it. There is very limited UK-operator cabotage in the EU; as I said, most journeys go out and come back. However, that is the main implication and the main difference.

[Lord Berkeley]

Following up on that, I would have thought cabotage was pretty important for coach operators. Does this restriction apply in the other direction for continental operators coming here?

[Baroness Sugg]

This SI allows EU operators to continue cabotage operations. We do not have figures on how much cabotage takes place. The new EU unilateral regulations allow cabotage for regular and special regular services in the Irish border regions until 30 September 2019, when we will have something else in place. However, other cabotage is not permitted and, as I said, the Interbus agreement does not allow cabotage.

There is little exercise of cabotage from UK operators, because services are usually hired for a group of passengers who return to the UK, such as for a school trip or tour. Regular services allow cabotage as part of an international journey, but all current UK-to-mainland-Europe timetabled services, such as Eurolines, are operated by non-UK companies, so they will not be affected by Brexit.

As we have said, cabotage forms an integral part of cross-border bus journeys on the island of Ireland. Such services are incredibly important for remote communities. We recognise that the provision within the legislation proposed by the EU offers a solution, but that solution is based on reciprocity, which is what we are doing through these SIs.

I suppose that one could say that this is an asymmetric agreement at the moment. We are allowing cabotage within the UK, but these things are of a temporary nature. When we join the Interbus agreement and have future discussions with the EU on our relationship—

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

I am sorry to ask this, because I have not been following the debate, but I am interested in the principle just enunciated. There is asymmetry but there is reciprocity. Is one way different from the other?

[Baroness Sugg]

I am not sure that the noble Lord was here for my opening statement where I set that out.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

I am afraid that I was not. Does that mean that I should not intervene?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

All right. I am sorry. I was interested in what has just been said; that is all.

[Baroness Sugg]

I am very happy to explain again that this SI sets out our position in relation to EU operators coming into the UK; there is no restriction on cabotage in that regard. However, the EU regulations restrict cabotage, which is why they are asymmetric. We still need to reciprocate the access, which is what this SI does.

I hope that I have answered most of the questions raised. If I have missed any, I shall follow up in writing. This instrument is needed to allow the continued operation of international bus and coach services in the event of no deal until such time as fully reciprocal arrangements are in place.

Motion agreed.

Train Driving Licences and Certificates (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 11 February be approved.

Relevant document: 19th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee B).

Motion agreed.

Aviation Safety (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 11 February be approved.

Relevant document: 18th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee B). Considered in Grand Committee on 12 March.

Motions agreed.

Railways (Interoperability) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

I first declare an interest as a founding chairman of the RSSB and its chairman for five years. Many of the transport SIs have assigned duties to the Secretary of State, and on each occasion I have asked who will advise the Secretary of State and whether it is a statutory or necessary process. As far as I can see, in this case it is not clear who would advise the Secretary of State, and I think that is deficient. I will not make a long speech, because, broadly speaking, I agree with my noble friend Lord Berkeley—not something I do that often, but on this occasion he has got it absolutely right.

One reason for the affluence we all enjoy today—this has been a truth since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution—is the impact of volume. When you think of it, a small family car costs less than one year’s labour costs for a car worker. Imagine standing there with a heap of coal and a heap of iron ore, and you have to build a car in a year by yourself. How do people achieve these things? It is through volume, research, mechanisation and complexity. Complexity is constantly brought into our lives at very little cost, because of volume. This law of volume means that the £13.50 watch on my wrist, as a one-off, would probably cost several hundred million pounds to develop from scratch. Volume is king, and the curse of the railway industry is that it does not, in general, have volume production. Therefore, it is unable to amortise production costs in the same way as industries such as the automotive industry. The ERA was the basis of allowing volume to be created. This is particularly important with the signalling revolution that is under way in Europe and this country.

I therefore agree with the general approach taken by my noble friend Lord Berkeley. I hope the Minister will produce some warm words about future aspirations. It would be madness not to become an associate member of the ERA, if we are able to negotiate that. I doubt whether this is the right instrument to require that, and therefore I do not support this regret Motion in the absolute sense of how it is written, but I support the general philosophy behind it.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for securing this debate and other noble Lords for their contributions. I greatly respect the depth of knowledge and experience that the noble Lord and many other noble Lords have in this area, and I am sorry that there is a strong difference of opinion.

The technical notice published in October set out the Government’s position in the event of no deal and the UK no longer being a member state, and that is that we will not seek formal participation in the European Union Agency for Railways. The reason for that is that this will provide scope in the future for potential convergence should we consider that to be beneficial for passengers and industry. It is likely that associate participation in the agency by third countries will be conditional on their adopting and applying full Union law for railway safety and interoperability, and the Government’s position is that if we leave the EU with no deal it would not be appropriate for us to continue to be compelled to accept rules that we would not be able to vote on. That is the position of the Government on the European Union railway industry.

These exit regulations specifically make the changes that are necessary to ensure that the rail vehicle and infrastructure authorisation regime continues to function correctly. They put in place a domestic rail standards framework that will replicate the technical requirements —the TSIs—in force on exit day. These changes are needed because we will no longer be a member state and those deficiencies will be there if they are not corrected. Therefore, I am pleased that the noble Lord downgraded his fatal Motion to a regret Motion.

The noble Lord’s Motion states that divergence from the EU standards will cause excessive costs to UK businesses, but I can reassure noble Lords that any decisions about potential divergence will not be taken lightly. This SI does not imply that there will be divergence but allows the possibility of divergence to happen. The flexibility to align or diverge will not necessarily increase costs; in some cases, it could decrease costs. The post-implementation review of the railways interoperability regulations found that the inability to diverge is causing excessive costs in some cases. For example, the Private Wagon Federation noted that EU standards prevent the UK from using older freight wagon types that are allowed in some other member states. It is concerned that that is increasing costs for the freight industry. Network Rail has also raised concerns that the costs associated with a rigid approach to the application of EU standards could sometimes outweigh the benefits.

Many noble Lords cited the concerns of the industry on this position. The concern is around future divergence rather than the position itself, and I agree that it is important to get it right. Decisions on divergence will always be made on the basis of consultation with industry and stakeholders, taking into account UK interests, and we would not choose to diverge if this process identified excessive costs to the UK or safety concerns.

I disagree that we have an aversion to the word “Europe”. As the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, pointed out, we are seeking continued participation in many European organisations. In this area, we will continue to play a leading role in European standards organisations. The BSI will continue to play an active role in the European Committee for Standardization and the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization, for which membership is not an obligation after we leave the EU. We will also continue to be an active member of the Convention concerning International Carriage by Rail, COTIF, which will help us to shape international rail technical standards. This would also allow us to share information when we are no longer a member state. As I said in the previous debate, we are committed to sharing information.

There were a couple of questions in the previous debate on why we would cease to share information. To clarify that, we would cease to share information about non-ORR issued licences from the UK. After two years, we would not have any of those and so we would continue to share information about our ORR-issued licences. We are committed to continuing to share information, and there are plenty ways we can do that outside the European Union rail agency.

We want to continue to work closely with the agency in the development of rail standards. We of course understand the importance and the advantage of working closely with our European neighbours, both for our manufacturers and the infrastructure here in the UK. We understand from the Rail Safety and Standards Board, the RSSB, that there has already been some discussion with the agency on the ways the two organisations will continue working together after exit to share best practice on the development of standards and rail safety. That might take the form of a memorandum of understanding between the two organisations, and we would encourage a close working relationship. However, the exact nature of our relationship with the agency should we leave with a deal will be subject to wider discussions with the EU on a future partnership. This is a statutory instrument in the event that we leave with no deal.

I appreciate that there are concerns about the process for developing these new NTSNs after exit and how we make decisions about the appropriate technical contact. I assure noble Lords that the Department for Transport will work closely with the RSSB as the main UK industry body for the development of the rail technical standards to inform NTSN decision-making. The RSSB has agreed to run consultations on proposed new NTSNs in response to new EU standards. These will be run in parallel with the European consultations as the standards are developed. Those TSIs are published online and there will not be a hold-up in decision-making here so that we can step with the standards. The RSSB will report any identified impacts of divergence from or alignment with the EU standards and make a formal recommendation to the Secretary of State so that the final decision will be made taking into account those views.

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, on the importance of parliamentary scrutiny. This SI in itself does not give rise to further delegated powers but covers the publication of NTSNs. Future SIs in this area would be subject to the negative procedure because they will be made under the Transport Act. However, there is always the ability to debate them on the Floor of the House, as we are doing with this one.

If divergence is being considered—which, of course, is the main, understandable concern of industry—we will first notify Parliament through making a Written Ministerial Statement before any final decisions are made. That Statement will refer to the report from the RSSB consultation process and outline the nature of the proposed divergence, the rationale for it and set out the potential costs and benefits. As I say, this SI in itself does not lead to further divergence. However, if it is decided that divergence would be to the benefit of the UK industry and passengers, that would be consulted on and clearly set out to Parliament.

The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, mentioned the impact assessment. It provides a narrative analysis rather than a quantified assessment of net costs and benefits to businesses. That is purely because we do not yet know what any future divergence might look like. On day one, we are replicating standards in the EU word for word. We are simply publishing them through the new NTSN process. We do not yet know what, if any, future divergence there will be, so it is not possible to understand what the costs may be. Future divergence would be subject to a full impact assessment, and at that point we will be able to understand the costs and benefits.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Berkeley]

Will the Minister say something about what would happen in the event of the Prime Minister’s deal—in other words, not the cliff edge—and whether this SI would no longer apply? Would the Government bring back a similar SI or would they carry on as we are at the moment? What options are open?

[Baroness Sugg]

If the exit day is changed as agreed, the exit day in this SI would change as agreed. I do not want to predict what is going to happen over the next couple of days or the length of an extension, if there is one. Our position is still that we do not want to seek membership of the European Union Agency for Railways.

I understand noble Lords’ concerns in this area. I will take them back to the department and inform the Secretary of State of the strength of feeling on this. I hope I have provided reassurances on the consultation, the impact assessment and parliamentary scrutiny of any future divergence, which is the main and understandable concern of industry, whether manufacturers, importers, exporters or whatever.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, made a key point about volume. This is not an attempt to diverge from standards; it is simply that if we are no longer a member state, we will not have a vote in the European Union Agency for Railways, so these regulations remove the obligation to take its rules. If we decide to diverge, we will have full consultation and a full impact assessment and we will ensure that we inform Parliament. While this is a no-deal exit SI, the future relationship is always subject to conversation with the Commission and member states, should we get to an implementation period. We will have close conversations with them on this agency and other European agencies in the future partnership agreement.

I am not able to go any further on our future position with the European Union Agency for Railways at this stage, but the noble Lord’s position on it is clear and I will ensure I take it back and discuss it with the department. Given the assurances that there are no set plans to diverge, that we will consult, publish an impact assessment and inform Parliament, I hope that the noble Lord feels able to withdraw his Motion.

[Lord Berkeley]

I am grateful to the Minister. She has tried very hard to justify something which is probably impossible to justify. She talked about divergence, as did many noble Lords. Unfortunately, when people say there is going to be no divergence, it happens for political reasons. That is not just under this Government; it has been around since time immemorial. It helps to have an agency which is completely separate from the political process. As the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, if it can work for air and sea, why can it not work for rail?

It may not matter, but I can see cost, bureaucracy and a loss of business coming from this SI. I very much hope that we do not leave the European Union in the manner that requires this SI to be implemented, but I have not heard what would happen in the event of our agreeing with the European Union another way out or even staying in—that is a different matter because we would stay in the ERA. I also have not heard a good argument for us not staying with the European Union Agency for Railways under associate membership. If Switzerland can do so, why not us? Switzerland has very good railways. We all have a process for derogations. We have been having derogations from the ERA for a long time. I am told that it has stopped giving us derogations, probably because it is so fed up with us at the moment, but that will not go on for ever.

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. There seems to be solid support for stating in the European Union Agency for Railways, with the exception of the Minister and my noble friend on the Front Bench—he and I do not always agree on everything, and that is fine. I wish to test the opinion of the House.

Merchant Shipping (Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 29 January be approved.

Relevant Document: 16th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee A)

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, if it is convenient, I shall speak also to the Merchant Shipping (Passengers’ Rights) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

These are two sets of draft regulations that will be made under powers in the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. To ensure that retained legislation remains operable, both of these draft regulations change references to “member states” and “the Commission” to “the Secretary of State” or “the United Kingdom”. They will also change definitions and other wording to reflect the UK’s position outside the EU.

The Merchant Shipping (Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 deal with the certificates that seafarers need to hold to demonstrate their competence to perform certain roles on ships. The International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers sets the standards of competence for seafarers internationally. Through two directives, the EU harmonised the way in which member states implemented the requirements of the STCW Convention.

The EU directives and the EEA agreement require the automatic mutual recognition of seafarer certificates issued by EEA states. They also establish a process for EU-wide recognition of certificates from third countries. EU countries can accept certificates from third countries that have been approved under the relevant EU process. The EU directives and our international obligations are implemented in the UK by the Merchant Shipping (Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping) Regulations 2015; the SI before the House amends these regulations. This instrument was originally laid under the negative procedure. The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee recommended that the regulations be handled under the affirmative procedure; I am grateful to the Committee for its consideration of the regulations and should like to respond briefly to their concerns.

The committee was concerned that, in the event of no deal, the recognition of the certificates of UK seafarers working on EU-flagged ships will be at the discretion of each member state. This instrument cannot, of course, require other countries to take a particular course of action. However, EU employers and trade unions have welcomed the Government’s commitment to continue recognising seafarer certificates from EU and EEA countries; these regulations will enable the Secretary of State to deliver this commitment.

The UK will also continue to recognise the certificates from those non-EU/EEA countries that we currently recognise under the STCW convention. These regulations will also enable the Secretary of State to remove recognition from any country if he is satisfied that the country no longer complies with the STCW convention. The regulations will remove the requirement to report to the European Commission on the seafarer certificates and endorsements issued by the UK, and replace it with a requirement to report to the Secretary-General of the International Maritime Organization on such compliance.

The second set of draft regulations—the Merchant Shipping (Passengers’ Rights) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019—deals with passengers’ rights and other issues involving the carriage of passengers by sea. Under EU regulation 1177/2010, UK passengers travelling by sea and inland waterway benefit from a comprehensive set of rights and entitlements. The EU regulation puts in place consumer protections which allow, among other things, for redress in respect of delayed and cancelled journeys. It also defines the standards which industry must uphold in respect of disabled passengers.

The IMO’s Athens convention requires ship owners to maintain compulsory insurance. This must be sufficient to cover third party claims in respect of the death or personal injury to passengers, and the loss of, or damage to, luggage and vehicles. EU regulation 392/2009 applied the provisions of the Athens convention in EU member states and added some protections above the requirements of the Athens convention. These included a €21,000 advance payout in case of death or serious injuries to passengers and a requirement to replace or repair personal mobility equipment damaged during the course of a journey.

These draft regulations will amend EU regulations 1177/2010 and 392/2009 to ensure that they continue to function correctly as part of UK law if the UK leaves without a deal. The changes we are making will not affect passengers in any way and will ensure that passengers have the same rights and entitlements as today. The regulations will also amend EU-derived domestic legislation which implements EU law in this area. In order for the UK to continue to meet its international obligations under the Athens convention once the UK leaves the EU, these draft regulations will transfer powers from the European Commission to the Secretary of State. These powers will enable the UK to keep up to date with changes to the compulsory insurance requirements and liability limits for ship owners as and when they are adopted by the IMO.

These draft regulations will remove a requirement to accept state certificates of insurance from an EU member state even when that member state has not ratified the Athens convention. This requirement is a legacy from a time when few member states had signed up to the international provisions on state certificates. In 2018, only 21 ships visited the UK which had insurance certificates issued by non-convention EU member states. Once the UK leaves the EU, the UK will accept state certificates only where they have been issued by a state party to the Athens convention. State certificates are easily obtainable from states parties to the convention, including from the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. This proposed change will not therefore have a significant impact on industry and simply ensures that we are complying with our international obligations under the convention without exception.

Finally, the regulations will also revoke three Council decisions. Two of these decisions were related to the accession of member states to the Athens convention. The third decision relates to the accession of member states to the International Convention on Civil Liability for Bunker Oil Pollution Damage 2001. Like the Athens convention, the bunkers convention obliges ship owners to maintain compulsory insurance—only in this case to cover third party claims in respect of bunker fuel oil spills. The UK will remain party to both of these conventions but these three Council decisions are addressed to EU member states. They will become redundant once the UK leaves the EU and so they are being revoked for the purpose of legal certainty.

The changes made by these draft regulations will ensure that retained EU law operates correctly so that we have an effective system for ensuring that seafarers working on UK ships are qualified to do so, and that passengers can continue to rely upon the rights and entitlements they are currently entitled to. They also ensure that the UK can continue to meet its international obligations and passenger safety commitments. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft regulations.

The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, pointed out the high quality of the seafarer qualifications, and we will continue to recognise them in accordance with the international STCW convention, so standards will not slip and will not be affected by our departure from the EU. To work on a UK-registered vessel, EU seafarers will still need to obtain a UK certificate of equivalent competency.

On the position of UK seafarers on EU-flagged ships, it is in the interests of both the UK and the EU to avoid any barriers to UK seafarers continuing to make the important contribution that they already make. If there is no deal, endorsements issued before withdrawal by EU countries to seafarers who hold UK certificates of competency will continue to be valid until they expire. So, if you are a UK-trained seafarer with an endorsement already issued by an EU country, you will be able to continue working on board vessels flying the flag of that country until the endorsement expires.

We are seeking to ensure that UK seafarer certificates continue to be recognised through the well-established EU process for recognising third-country certificates. That will provide continuity for UK seafarers. As I have said, we have committed to recognising EU countries’ certificates, and that approach has been welcomed. The Commission issued a technical notice in January 2018 setting out that the UK would be treated as a third country and that member states would need to apply to recognise UK certificates under the relevant provisions in directive 2008/106. It is not possible to apply for this recognition until the UK becomes a third country, and the Commission can take around 18 months to process the application. However, member states can recognise certificates in the meantime, and we are confident that the EU will accept that UK training is of a high quality, will want to recognise us as a third country and that major commercial flags such as Malta and Cyprus will continue to recognise the UK certificate of competence. When we raised the issue with all of those countries, they have been positive.

As to the impact on day one, the vast majority of UK seafarers will already have a current certificate of competency which, as I have said, will be valid for up to five years.

On the powers of the Secretary of State to remove recognition from countries, we will be advised by the MCA. The Secretary of State currently makes decisions based on its advice and so that will not change. The decisions will be based on all the evidence available that that country meets the STCW requests. The normal administrative law provisions apply so that the Secretary of State’s decisions can be challenged in court if necessary.

No formal consultation was carried out on the STCW SI, but the department has worked closely with shipping representatives and the trade union Nautilus International. The Government also issued technical notices in September to inform seafarers and companies about the approach. The department has met with the general secretary of Nautilus on several occasions; the MCA has regular contact with it and with the Chamber of Shipping on the whole SI programme. The Shipping Minister recently met with Nautilus and the Chamber of Shipping, which was described as productive by Nautilus. Both organisations support the continued recognition by the UK of certificates issued by EU member states.

On passenger rights, the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, asked about the conversion rate. This was done using the average exchange rate for the year ending 31 December 2017 and the figures were rounded. Therefore, the €80 and €6 in EU regulation 1177 becomes £70 and £5, and the €21,000 reference in EU regulation 392 becomes £18,500. In each case, those roundings work to the benefit of passengers. The conversion was carried out at the beginning of the drafting process according to cross-government guidance, and at the time 2017 was the last full year available. However, as the noble Baroness said, the exchange rate has fluctuated since but, because of the rounding, the effect on passengers is minimal. Those amounts were fixed and we do not have the power to vary them other than through primary legislation.

Passenger rights and entitlements will be the same as they are today. I hope that is plain English enough for the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe.

No formal consultation was undertaken on the passenger rights SI, but the department consulted a range of stakeholders in 2018 when preparing the post-implementation reviews of the Merchant Shipping (Carriage of Passengers by Sea) Regulations 2012 and the Merchant Shipping (Passengers’ Rights) Regulations 2013, which implement the relevant EU law in the UK. In both cases, all stakeholders expressed support for the 2012 and 2013 regulations and a desire to see the current rules retained in their existing form.

On further delegated powers to the Secretary of State, the draft regulations transfer powers which currently enable the Commission to amend certain elements of regulation 392/2009, which applies the Athens convention. The powers transferred to the Secretary of State are limited to amending the liability limits to incorporate changes made by the IMO Athens convention and to other non-essential elements of the regulation. No changes to the EU regulation have been made since it came into force, and it is not expected that we will use this power frequently. We will continue to monitor developments in the implementation of the Athens convention at international and EU level. Any other changes to that regulation will need to be made through primary legislation.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked about the Athens convention. It establishes a regime of liability for damage suffered by passengers on a sea-going vessel. It declares a carrier liable for damage or loss suffered by a passenger if the incident causing the damage occurred in the course of the carriage and was due to the fault or neglect of the carrier. As far as loss or damage to luggage is concerned, the carrier’s limit of liability varies depending on whether the loss or damage occurred in respect of cabin luggage, a vehicle or other luggage carried in or on it. The key requirement is that the registered owner of a vessel must maintain compulsory insurance. Passengers travelling on ferries to or from the EU after exit will continue to be protected, as it applies to all passengers regardless of nationality.

Under regulation 1177/2010, passengers have the right to information, refunds and rerouting, in some cases, and compensation in most circumstances in which their journeys are delayed or cancelled. The regulation also grants the right to assistance and travel at no extra cost. I hope that is a sufficient explanation of what the Athens convention does. The EU regulations were harmonised and brought it into UK law. The new regulations we are discussing transfer them.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, also asked which member states have not yet ratified the convention. A number of member states have not ratified the convention, despite it having been in force for almost five years. They are Austria, the Republic of Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Luxembourg and Poland, but only Cyprus, Estonia, Germany, Italy and Poland have maritime ports. Only 21 ships made that journey and it is very easy to get a certificate of competence. We are in contact with those countries which have not ratified the Athens convention.

I hope I have managed to address the points—

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

I asked whether there is any parliamentary involvement in the Secretary of State exercising his rights under either of these instruments.

[Baroness Sugg]

On the first instrument and the Secretary of State’s right to remove a country from STCW, I do not believe there is any parliamentary involvement. That would be based on the MCA, as previously. On the delegated powers under the passengers’ rights obligation, that will depend on which regulation he is using. The powers transferred to the Secretary of State are limited to amending the liability limits to incorporate changes and other non-essential elements of regulation. Any other substantial changes will need to be made through primary legislation, which will be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. There are no further delegated powers through the STCW regulations.

I hope I have managed to address the points that noble Lords have raised during the debate. I will perhaps write to the noble Lord to clarify the last point on parliamentary scrutiny.

This completes the programme of maritime SIs that noble Lords will consider. I thank the policy officials and legal advisers to the DfT—who I hope are not losing the will to live—for their hard work and diligence in both producing the SIs and briefing the Minister on them. The proposed changes made by these draft regulations are appropriate to ensure that retained EU legislation relating to seafarer qualifications and passenger rights work effectively in the UK from day one in the event of a no-deal exit.

Motion agreed.

Licensing of Operators and International Road Haulage (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 6 February be approved.

Relevant documents: 17th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee A)

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, these draft regulations will be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. They amend regulation 1071/2009, which sets the requirements and procedures for transport operator licensing, and regulation 1072/2009, which regulates access to the international freight market. This SI makes minimal changes to those regulations and consequential amendments to domestic legislation to ensure that road haulage markets continue to operate effectively.

Regulation 1071/2009 provides a framework for the licensing of transport operators—both haulage and bus and coach operators—in member states of the EU and ensures minimum standards across the EU. Operators are licensed by national authorities. In Great Britain, this is the traffic commissioners; in Northern Ireland, it is the Department for Infrastructure. Operators need to comply with four criteria in order to be considered fit and proper persons to hold an operator’s licence. These criteria are: having a stable establishment; being of good repute; having a sufficient level of financial standing; and possessing the required professional competence.

Regulation 1072/2009 sets out the rules and procedures for accessing the international road haulage market. It allows appropriately licensed hauliers from EU member states to operate in other member states and provides for enforcement mechanisms to regulate and control this access.

The withdrawal Act will retain regulations 1071/2009 and 1072/2009 in their entirety on exit day. The draft instrument we are considering makes the changes necessary so that these regulations continue to function correctly, and it is essential to ensure that the regulatory regime in place after exit continues to operate.

The regulations will ensure that the requirements of regulation 1071/2009 continue to be applicable to UK hauliers and public service operators—both those operating in the UK and those operating overseas. They will also ensure the continued operation of regulation 1072/2009, which provides that hauliers from the 27 EU member states will continue to be admitted to the UK provided they have a valid operator’s licence, issued by the country in which they are established, showing that they meet the requirements that I outlined earlier.

The regulations require hauliers to hold a UK licence for the Community after their current Community licence expires. This is a new document and will look very similar to the current EU Community licence, which hauliers already hold when operating in the EU. The criteria for this will be the same as for the Community licence.

The European Commission has already published legislation that would govern UK operators’ access to the EU for nine months after Brexit. This is based on the principle of reciprocity, and this SI allows us to offer a reciprocal level of access to EU hauliers. The regulations might also help in future negotiations. They demonstrate that the UK is committed to maintaining high standards in the freight industry that meet the EU baseline. They also allow for the UK to adjust levels of market access to EU hauliers in order to reciprocate whatever is agreed in the negotiations.

The access rules in regulation 1072/2009 also include provisions to allow hauliers to practise cabotage—jobs entirely in another member state. Currently, three domestic jobs in a seven-day period are permitted for EU hauliers as part of their return trip once they have completed a job in another member state. Previously the power to suspend cabotage provisions if they disrupted the domestic market was subject to the approval of the European Commission. These regulations transfer this power to the Secretary of State so that we have the ability to suspend cabotage for non-UK hauliers if reciprocal arrangements are not offered to UK hauliers in the EU.

The regulations also modify the Goods Vehicle (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995. Section 2 of the Act makes it an offence for a person to use a goods vehicle except under an operator’s licence. However, for very practical reasons, the provision exempts holders of Community licences issued by member states from this requirement. This means that EU hauliers are able to operate in Great Britain without having to apply for an operator’s licence. An equivalent provision is made in Northern Ireland legislation. The SI also allows us to exempt operating licences using secondary legislation in future.

The regulations provide for the continuation of the road haulage and passenger transport licensing system. They also allow for EU member state hauliers to continue to operate in the UK, ensuring that supply chains continue to function effectively. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, I took a slightly more optimistic view of this SI than the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson. However, clarification in plain language will help. Paragraph 2.7 of the Explanatory Memorandum says:

“The UK operator licensing regime will generally remain as at present”.


I wonder whether we could have simpler language than that. My understanding, taken with recent agreement in the EU, is that the situation will be fully reciprocal. I will say it again, because it is a question to which I would like a direct answer. The Explanatory Memorandum uses terms such as “provided that”, which enthused me to look up the European Commission—I will not do this again. On 19 December 2018, it published a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on,

“common rules ensuring basic road freight connectivity with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union”.

At the end it says that the regulation applies until 31 December 2019, and that it was “done at” Brussels. I do not understand EU law. Is that now a piece of EU law? Does it, together with this SI, mean that in all respects, except the names of these licences, the situation for operators is identical to where we are now, with, of course, the overriding importance that the agreement of the EU is only until the end of the year?

[Baroness Sugg]

I again thank noble Lords for their consideration of these regulations. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, asked about the hot topic of ECMT permits. The European Commission has published the draft regulation on road transport. It was approved by the European Parliament last week. We expect it to be approved by the Council of Ministers this week—tomorrow, in fact. We welcome the substance of these proposals, which will ensure that the majority of UK hauliers can continue carrying goods into the EU for the rest of the year without needing an ECMT permit, providing that we reciprocate and provide equivalent rights to EU hauliers, which we are doing through these regulations.

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

Am I right in understanding that that also includes the cabotage allowance?

[Baroness Sugg]

The Commission’s proposal includes the right for UK hauliers to complete point-to-point journeys and transit journeys. It also offers limited cabotage and cross-trade journeys. Cross-trade journeys are limited compared to what UK hauliers can do now, which is three movements in seven days. They will still be allowed to do two cross-trade or cabotage operations on every international trip for the first four months of these regulations, then one cross-trade or cabotage operation every trip during the next three months.

[Baroness Randerson]

Could I point out that this complexity underlines the importance of consultation and, therefore, public awareness? People in the industry could be forgiven for being confused.

[Baroness Sugg]

I agree with the noble Baroness. The EU has proposed a complex system. It has been clear that it is not replicating current market access provisions, but it is ensuring basic connectivity and phasing out the current system by the end of the year. However, given that UK hauliers are allowed to have these journeys, we do not expect the vast majority of haulage operations to be able to continue. We have ECMT permits to fall back on.

As I said, the measure is based on the UK granting reciprocal access. To protect businesses and minimise disruption, we are currently offering more to EU hauliers than the EU is offering us, so we are mirroring the situation at the moment. We have the power to amend this and mirror the EU’s offer. The regulation does not cover transit to third countries, but will cover transit to EEA countries such as Norway, so we will use the ECMT permits to those third countries. It also makes it clear that bilateral agreements with the UK can be negotiated and concluded for periods during which the regulation applies—for example, after December 2019—but should we be in a no-deal scenario and should these regulations come in, we will of course be negotiating at pace to understand our future arrangement.

If we leave the EU without a deal, we will not be able to issue Community licences, as we will no longer be a member state. Therefore, we have had to come up with a replacement document: the UK licence for the Community. UK hauliers should continue to carry their current Community licence, which lasts for five years. Only when a Community licence expires will it be replaced by the new UK licence for the Community.