King’s Speech

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, it is often suggested that a week is a long time in politics. It is just eight days since His Majesty the King came and gave the gracious Speech. Since then, two of the great offices of state have changed hands, perhaps presaging some significant change to policy—it is a little difficult at this stage to know. Obviously, the King’s Speech very rarely refers in any detail to foreign or defence policy, because so little of that is subject to legislation. Occasionally—once every five years—we have an Armed Forces renewal Bill, which has some significant discussion around it, and every year we are required to renew Parliament’s commitment to the Armed Forces, which we always do. This means that there is relatively little on the legislative agenda on defence. However, in his opening words last week, His Majesty the King pointed out the context of a war in Ukraine, and there was testament to “our gallant Armed Forces”.

Across the Chamber, we hear similar words. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and I very often agree on questions of defence, and, over the last few years, we have spent much time agreeing with the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie. In thinking about my remarks for today’s speech, although we now have a new Foreign Secretary, who is not yet able to be in his seat, I was looking forward to saying what a pleasure it was that we were still looking across the Chamber to the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, and the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon. Both of them have been fantastic Ministers, who take their duties as parliamentarians and as members of His Majesty’s Government very seriously. We have much appreciated the commitment and the diligence that the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, has given to this House but also to the Armed Forces. She has been second to none in making the Government’s commitment to the Armed Forces very clear. From these Benches, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, did, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, and hope that she will bring her expertise to the Government Back Benches in the future.

I welcome the noble Earl, Lord Minto, to his place and look forward to the opportunity of raising questions about His Majesty’s Armed Forces and defence accommodation. I was very pleased to hear in his speech that now, apparently, the telephone is answered by Pinnacle in 29 seconds. What I would really like to know is this. If the telephone is answered in 29 seconds, how long does it take the hard-pressed service man or woman, or more likely their spouse, to actually get an answer to their problem? Has black mould been abolished from forces accommodation? Have we really seen a change in practice or simply a few tick-box KPIs? These are the sorts of questions that the noble Earl is probably going to be hearing over the next few months, between now and the general election.

I agree with the noble Earl and the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, that it is clearly important at the start of a parliamentary Session to make our commitment to His Majesty’s Armed Forces very clear; I reiterate from these Benches as well the importance of defence. Defence is one of those issues that is probably not top of ordinary citizens’ agenda. If a survey was done asking what the three most important issues are, people might talk about a cost of living crisis, energy bills or education for their children. In the United Kingdom they are probably not going to say defence of the realm, yet defence is the first duty of the state, and for good reason.

But it has been very clear in the last two to three years that people in this country are beginning to think more about defence, as questions of conflict are becoming much more relevant within the United Kingdom. It is no longer sufficient to assume that conflicts will be in far-away places of which we know little. In recent years—I start in 2011 because I shall come back to some thoughts about what happened in the coalition—there was the Libya action in 2011, which effectively left a failed state from which small boats might be setting off, with people who are desperate to come to Europe, maybe for a better life or to seek refuge. That crisis has left a situation that is being used and abused by people traffickers.

There is also the situation in Syria, which remains a problem and in which Russia played a part. We have heard about Russia in other parts of the world, but in the Middle East it has also played a role. The Russian annexation of Crimea started a series of actions that perhaps the United Kingdom and other European countries did not take sufficiently seriously in 2014. We did from 2022. It has been part of a major commitment and I pay tribute to His Majesty’s Government for their support for Ukraine, which has been absolutely right.

Here I have a set of defence questions. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, for the purposes of the King’s Speech debate, because I realise that his portfolio is officially foreign affairs. We are making commitments to Ukraine; that is absolutely right. Can the Minister confirm that His Majesty’s Government have the resources necessary to keep their commitments going to training Ukrainian forces, supplying ammunition, and providing the resources that the Ukrainian President has repeatedly told us are needed? Ben Wallace, when he was Secretary of State for Defence—another great office of state that changed so very recently—made those commitments. Is the United Kingdom able to meet them at a time of rapid change in global security questions?

I said I was going to come back to the coalition, partly because, during that time, the then Prime Minister had a tendency to visit other countries. If there was an issue of conflict—an issue that required defence support —he was prone to saying, “We can help you. We can send some soldiers, sailors or aviators, or maybe some military intelligence”. The danger of doing that is overreach. It is a good thing to do, but do we have the resources to do it?

Why does that matter? Because the then Prime Minister who was so keen to support other countries is about to join your Lordships’ House as Foreign Secretary. Can the Minister reassure the House that, in their commitment to foreign policy, His Majesty’s Government will also take into consideration the needs of the Armed Forces, to ensure that we are not putting undue pressure on all our service personnel? We have already heard about the issues of support for the Armed Forces. Accommodation is part of that, but so is adequate opportunity to spend time with families, to ensure that people stay in the Armed Forces. The more operations we undertake, the more support we need to give the Armed Forces.

In his opening remarks, the Minister mentioned the Korean War. At the Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance on Saturday evening, I think I heard a statement that 80,000 British service personnel served in Korea. That was at a time of conscription; now, we are looking at 73,000 British soldiers. Is that really enough? Are the Government being complacent with the number of Armed Forces personnel? Are we looking at increasing the number of reservists?

Finally, one crisis that is still unresolved is our duty to those people who served with His Majesty’s Armed Forces and taught the English language in Afghanistan—those people to whom we made commitments under the ARAP and the ACRS. There are still thousands of people in Pakistan, many of whom think they will not make it before their visas run out, as well as people who have not yet got out of Afghanistan. As a country, we still owe a duty to those people. What will His Majesty’s Government do to make sure that the vulnerable are able to come to the United Kingdom, as promised by His Majesty’s Government?

As we see our international obligations more as supporting other Governments, so we also have obligations to people who work with and for us, particularly for the British Council. If we do not provide the support that we have offered, in future people will be very reluctant to work with us. There are many things that His Majesty’s Government are getting right, but there are many questions still to be resolved.

War in Ukraine

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)]

The sentiment and reaction of the Chamber will reaffirm to the noble Lord how much his expressions of support are appreciated. It is important not just for this Chamber and Parliament as a whole but for the message it sends to the wider world, not least to Mr Putin.

I assure the noble Lord that there is evidence that the counteroffensive is having a very significant impact. It inflicts chronic pressure on Russia deep beyond the front lines. We know that the Russian defence industry is severely stretched and unable to access western components to produce sufficient equipment. Russia now desperately searches for foreign armaments and has had to resort to mobilising Soviet-era tanks.

If we in the United Kingdom are united in our resolve to maintain our support for Ukraine and to continue doing everything we can, whether individually or in concert with friends and allies to deliver that support, it is worth noting that in Ukraine itself there is no war fatigue. Polling in Ukraine shows huge positivity about its future, which is to be commended. Once again, the courage of the people in Ukraine is admirable and deserving of our respect and commendation.

On the matter of replenishment, as the noble Lord will be aware, the Government are engaged on their own replenishment mission with industry. The UK’s position is not unique in NATO with regard to industrial capacity and stockpile replenishment. The UK is driving thinking on solutions to this issue. We will continue to work with international partners and deepen engagement with industry through meetings with the NATO armaments director, the Ukraine Defense Contact Group and the NATO Industry Advisory Group.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, pointed out, eyes are all turned towards Israel and Gaza at the moment. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made about the impact that that is having on President Putin and whether he is taking an opportunity to engage further in Ukraine while we look to Israel and Gaza? Beyond that, the House was told last night by the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, that there has been a British deployment of support to the eastern Mediterranean of two Royal Naval ships, RAF surveillance aircraft and a company of Royal Marines—and we have bolstered forces in Cyprus and across the region. All that is in many ways welcome, but can the Minister explain what assessment is being made in the MoD about our own resilience to make sure that we can continue to support the training of troops in Ukraine as well as in the eastern Mediterranean, because both those fronts are vital?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right to indicate that there is nothing that Mr Putin would like better than to imagine that everybody is distracted by another dangerous conflict and that somehow or other he is off the radar screen. For the United Kingdom and our allies, the tragic situation with Israel and the Gaza Strip and the situation in Ukraine continue to be deeply worrying conflicts. We will do our level best, as we have indicated, to provide support where we can. The noble Baroness designated the support that we have indicated we can make available in the eastern Mediterranean. I can confirm to her that that is not impugning our resilience on other fronts. As she will understand, the support that we are offering to Ukraine is somewhat different in character, but we are able and absolutely committed to continue doing that. I hope that there will be opportunities to update the House in forthcoming months as to exactly how that support will continue.

Ukraine

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 21st September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, this has been a very welcome debate and, like other noble Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, for bringing it. I am very glad that I do not have to respond from the Government Front Bench, but I note that it is currently 4.15 pm and the Order Paper suggests that the House is expected to rise at 7 pm. That suggests an awfully long time for the Front Benches to wind, but I assume that the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, does not intend to spend a couple of hours responding for the Government.

That is a frivolous way of starting a very serious speech, because the Liberal Democrat Benches, like the Labour Benches and the majority of contributors from the Cross Benches, are committed in our strong support for what His Majesty’s Government have been doing on the war in Ukraine and in the support that the United Kingdom has given Ukraine since February 2022. There is a significant degree of unanimity, but there are also many questions and issues that remain unanswered. In this sort of debate, by the time somebody on the opposition Benches is winding, one might expect that everything has been said but not everyone has said it. Just as the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, thought that the noble Lord, Lord Risby, was going to make his speech for him, by now everybody might have said the things that I was intending to say, but there are several points that I want to raise that either have not been discussed or were touched on only briefly. There are a range of themes that we need to think about, as a House and as a country.

In previous debates on the situation in Ukraine, we have talked a lot about the detail of what is happening, and that has been touched on today, but there are many more issues that we need to think about, including the geopolitics of the region and broader thinking about the NATO alliance. The assumption in most of the contributions today has been that NATO is united in supporting Ukraine but we might be slightly worried about where the United States is going. However, I want to pick up on a theme that was briefly touched on by the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, and that is the situation in Poland. I want to talk about Ukraine, Russia and NATO but also a little bit more about the emerging order, on which there are many questions we need to address.

The opening point is that from these Benches we support His Majesty’s Government. There is no space for appeasement. Regarding the idea that we try to summon Vladimir Putin to the table, it is not the right time to do that and it is not our war; it is for Ukraine to defend itself, with our support and that of our NATO allies.

We have already heard from the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, and others that opinion in the United States is somewhat shaky. So far, the NATO support for Ukraine has been led by the United States, with President Biden in office. American citizens need to be persuaded that there is a reason to continue supporting Ukraine. Public opinion polls matter, and I therefore ask what assessment the Government have made of support for Ukraine from the United States, in particular from a change in government—not just a return to the Trump Administration but to another Republican President of the United States. Will we see continued support for Ukraine and the leadership that has been present so far, or are we likely to see more isolationism or a tilt to the Pacific? These questions are hugely important.

The importance of this issue was highlighted two years ago with the American withdrawal from Afghanistan —the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, mentioned this and the earlier Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan. If there was a lesson from the withdrawal two years ago, it was that, once the United States pledges to withdraw from somewhere, the rest of NATO follows. In many ways, that empowered Putin to feel that he could maybe take action against Ukraine.

We need a solid and united NATO. His Majesty’s Government have been saying and doing the right things, but we need all our NATO partners to be on the same page working together. We have seen that so far, but what conversations are we having to ensure that all our NATO partners are on board?

The United States has been mentioned by others. One country that I think has not been mentioned today is Turkey, a long-standing, European, non-EU member of NATO, one that has in the past procured weapons from Russia, has perhaps sought to placate Russia in some ways, and has not necessarily always abided by sanctions against Russia but has played an important role in negotiations on grain. What conversations are we having bilaterally with Turkey to make sure that it is wholly on board with NATO commitments?

Sticking with the question of grain, what we have seen just today is Poland making the extraordinary announcement that it will stop exporting arms to Ukraine over the grain situation. Several east central European countries have perhaps looked a little shaky in their support for Ukraine, but the one country that initially seemed rock solid in its support was Poland. Indeed, it called for Ukraine to be fast-tracked into the European Union, if I recall correctly. Yet now it is saying that it will not continue arms exports. If NATO fragments, what future is there for supporting Ukraine? We really need to shore up that alliance.

Beyond that, however, we need to do rather more in ensuring that there is Commonwealth support. I think that my namesake, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, mentioned the Commonwealth—she is looking in my direction, and I hope that I noted that correctly. But it is vital that we talk to our Commonwealth partners and allies to make sure that, as far as possible, we are all able to support Ukraine, even if this is a European war and does not necessarily impact the rest of the globe directly. We need to be very aware that, if the West has supported Ukraine very clearly, other parts of the globe have not necessarily seen that it is so important to support a country within Europe. The shift to a more authoritarian world is impacting Europe but also parts of the Commonwealth. We need to be able to have open dialogue and try to persuade our Commonwealth partners of the importance of what is happening in Ukraine for sovereignty and independence.

Within Europe, there are a couple of areas that we need to be thinking about a little more. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, mentioned Nagorno-Karabakh. The noble Lords, Lord Cormack and Lord Owen, mentioned Bosnia-Herzegovina. These are areas with significant Russian influence. Ukraine is not an isolated case; it is the case where Russia has invaded, but we need to be very aware that Russia has its tentacles in parts of the Balkans, in Nagorno-Karabakh and the Armenia-Azeri conflict, and indeed in parts of Africa. The situation is fluid and dangerous. What work are His Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that the western Balkans are stabilised? What are they doing to look at previously frozen conflicts, such as that in Nagorno-Karabakh? These are all areas that could potentially come back to haunt us.

Finally, there are two areas on which I think we would welcome His Majesty’s Government giving a few more comments. One is the future support for Ukraine. As the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, said, Ben Wallace, when he was Secretary of State for Defence, was extremely powerful in his support for Ukraine. We should all pay him a debt of gratitude, as the House has done on several occasions. What is the position of the current Secretary of State? He seems to be silent on the question of Ukraine, so a little bit of reassurance on the current position would be very welcome.

Beyond that, what are the views of His Majesty’s Government on dealing with Russia and war crimes? Although the House was almost united in its views, there were one or two voices at the end that had slightly different positions on how this war should end. However, we should all be speaking with one voice to say that it is absolutely vital that war crimes be tackled and that the perpetrators, including Vladimir Putin, be held to account. Do His Majesty’s Government agree?

Armed Forces: Troop Levels

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 21st September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

With the greatest respect, I slightly disagree with my noble friend and wish to disabuse him of the idea that there is some decline going on; there is not. In fact, the example that the UK has set globally in respect of our support for Ukraine has been universally admired. That is dependent on not just military donations, but also on the NATO support which we are able to provide. As my noble friend will be aware, we are playing our role in these NATO contributions, for example through JEF and EFP—now important both in the Baltic and the Balkans. But our concentration is on whole force, and that is how we have to look at the modern threat and the modern areas of conflict.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Question on the Order Paper is very much about troop numbers, not the wider defence offer. Could the Minister tell us whether 72,000 regulars really is sufficient? Should we not go back to at least 80,000? What is the whole force offer—is there a commitment to increasing the number of reserves, because we have not really seen that either?

Armed Forces: Remuneration, Housing and Family Support

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 18th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble and gallant Lord might be surprised to find that I am largely in agreement with his opinion. This is a long-standing arrangement; as he will be aware, it became the subject of judicial proceedings. We have been able to make progress, and I think the department has learned a great deal from that adventure, if you like. The noble and gallant Lord is quite correct that we can do better, and we are now on a much more sustainable footing.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has made some positive comments about accommodation, yet in the continuous attitude survey of 2023, just 19% of respondents were satisfied with the timeliness or the quality of the repairs of service accommodation. Are His Majesty’s Government satisfied with that result, and what are they doing to improve things?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I would just say to the noble Baroness that 97% of MoD service family accommodation meets or exceeds the Government’s decent homes standard, and only these properties should be allocated to service families. On the continuous attitude survey, the department is focused on addressing the root causes of dissatisfaction with the maintenance of service family accommodation. That began before the Armed Forces Continuous Attitude Survey questionnaire was distributed to personnel. By the time the results were published on 1 June this year, performance had improved.

Armed Forces

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to speak in this debate. Like other noble Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Soames, for introducing this debate so brilliantly and, as so often, demonstrating how much we have in common across all parts of your Lordships’ House when we speak on defence. So often from this Bench, I find that if there is a Statement and I am following the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, I echo what he has said. Most of the time, we stand up and pay tribute to His Majesty’s Armed Forces and the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, thanks us for doing so and does likewise.

Today, I think there is almost unanimity across the House, but, for once, the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, may not feel it is quite such a comfortable place to be. This is precisely because, across the House, while paying tribute to His Majesty’s Armed Forces, there is a common theme where in many ways we are all echoing the outgoing—or rather, outgone—Secretary of State, Ben Wallace, in suggesting that there has been a hollowing out of His Majesty’s Armed Forces. At the present time, the last thing that this country can afford to do is to hollow out our Armed Forces, because we are at a time of international turbulence. We have had a new integrated review refresh, and this defence Command Paper, precisely because the threats that were perceived in 2021 have been realised, and things have gone much further in Ukraine.

The danger for the Liberal Democrats, or indeed for any of the Front Benches, in winding up in a debate like this, is that by the time we get to the winding speeches, everything has been said but perhaps not everybody has said it. But on this occasion there are a couple of questions that I would like to raise that I do not think have been touched on in other speeches. I will then come back to the themes of defence spending, Armed Forces morale and the role of the Armed Forces in this country.

Looking at the opening ministerial words of the defence Command Paper of this year, I think there is very little with which we would disagree in what Ben Wallace and James Heappey said. They talked about Russia, but they also mentioned China, as the noble Lord, Lord Soames, did in his opening remarks. I wonder whether the Minister could tell the House a little bit more about what His Majesty’s Government think in terms of relations with China and defence threats, in particular in light of the suggestions over the weekend that the MoD had been hacked? Could the Minister reassure the House about cybersecurity, which is, I think, a topic that has not really been explored today but is worth thinking about? If our own MoD is not secure, what message is that sending? Something about cybersecurity would be very welcome.

Beyond that, we heard the noble Lord, Lord Mountevans, suggest towards the end that “defence is everybody’s business”. The noble Baroness, Lady Fraser, pointed out a problem of recent years: that, as the size of the Armed Forces has declined, fewer members of our society are used to having family members having experience of the Armed Forces. That means that it is very difficult to make the case for funding for the Armed Forces or for defence; it does not necessarily feature in debates. If you are out on a doorstep, you are unlikely to have people saying, “Please put more money into the Armed Forces”. You hear it sometimes, but if you are a campaigning politician running for office in the other place or for a local council, it is usually about the NHS or, on a local level, potholes, rather more than military capabilities. Yet, if we do not get those military capabilities right, there is nothing else that the Government can and should be doing.

So, from these Benches, I echo the requests for His Majesty’s Government to pay proper attention to the MoD budget. It is a great loss to the Government and to the country that Ben Wallace, with his persistent concerns and demands about funding the Armed Forces and defence, has left office. Could the Minister enlighten the House on whether she believes that the new Secretary of State really does believe in 3% being spent on defence, because that would seem to be an important commitment?

Could she also say whether the Government would agree with the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Richards, and his important comments about the size of the economy? On these Benches, while we are committed to defence expenditure, we also believe that it is the size of the economy that matters, because 2% or 3% of a larger economy is rather more important. So what are His Majesty’s Government thinking about in that regard?

We heard from the noble and gallant Lord, Craig of Radley, and the noble Lords, Lord Touhig and Lord Snape, among others, about the Continuous Attitude Survey. Our Armed Forces are vital to this country; we owe them not just a debt of gratitude but quality of accommodation. As we heard from many noble Lords, we need to ensure that the Armed Forces have appropriate accommodation and that their families are also looked after, because that is a vital part of keeping morale and ensuring retention. What are His Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that morale and retention are improved?

On the question my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire raised and the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, discussed at some length, what are His Majesty’s Government doing about Reserves? As well as a policy of increasing the number of Reserves, should we not think much more about an interplay between the regulars and the Reserves? That seems to be an area where we could ensure that the £10 million fighter pilot is not lost when he or she leaves the RAF. So is there is some flexibility and creativity in government thinking on those matters?

Finally, I was not expecting to speak about the nuclear deterrent, because it is a decision that has been made in terms of Trident replacement, but the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, and my noble friend Lady Miller both pointed out that there is question about the size of stockpiles. In the integrated review, His Majesty’s Government talked about increasing the number of nuclear warheads. Have they had a chance to rethink that? The deterrent only needs to be a minimal deterrent; increasing the number of warheads does not necessarily seem to be the most effective way of using scarce resources. Would it not be better for us to think not about increasing the number of nuclear weapons but about ensuring that we have credibility in conventional weapons, so that we can keep our place and seat at the table, leading in NATO?

Military Vehicles: Repair

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 4th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

On Ajax, as the noble Lord is aware, a corner has been turned, thankfully, and good progress is being made. On the Challenger tanks, the noble Lord will be aware of the upgrading taking place now to create CR3—Challenger 3—tanks from innovated and improved CR2 tanks. But the noble Lord might be interested to know that money has also been given to the Army to ensure that, in addition, a cohort of CR2 tanks is upgraded so that they are available to operate with Warrior until the full transition to CR3 has taken place. As the previous Secretary of State for Defence made clear, we will consider whether the lessons of Ukraine suggest that we need a larger tank fleet. That is under consideration.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Defence Command Paper says that we need to minimise the time when our “assets are unavailable”. Looking at the two issues together—the retirement of Challenger tanks and the difficulties with Ajax—are His Majesty’s Government sure that we are actually minimising the time when assets are unavailable? Should we be concerned about gaps?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

This is an important issue—I would not suggest otherwise—but it is also a situation where we constantly factor into any decision-making what will be the likely transition period and requirements to maintain operational effectiveness, to ensure that there is no hiatus, gap or lacuna. The evidence suggests that that is effectively achieved. But it is worth pointing out to the noble Baroness, who raises an important point, that we were clear in the Command Paper refresh that, in procurement, we also look at exportability. There is proven success in that already, in relation to Type 26 and Type 31 frigates.

Ukraine: Ammunition and Missiles

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 24th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes, and precisely that challenge has been acknowledged both by the Government and particularly by the MoD. My noble friend will recall that we have granted £2.3 billion-worth of military aid in 2022-23 and we are committed to repeating that for 2023-24. As I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord West, industry is now in a much more resilient position than it was, thankfully. We are satisfied that we have the funding streams, which are already public, to sustain a regular replenishment flow.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister’s answers today are encouraging, but the Written Ministerial Statement that sneaked out at the end of last week, seemingly to coincide with the Question from the noble Lord, Lord West—rather like the Etherton report coming out on the day of the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Lexden—raises the question of whether the Government are being sufficiently proactive with information. In particular, the Written Ministerial Statement gives us data and says:

“The data below was last provided to the House … on 21 July 2022”.


Will it be possible for the House to be informed of equipment, ammunition and so on far more regularly post Recess?

Veterans Update

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, from these Benches I too very much welcome the report from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton. We talked about some of these issues yesterday, but it is absolutely right to put on the record again how wrong it was that the ban was in place and to give the apologies of this nation to those who were forced to leave Her Majesty’s Armed Forces, whether because they were homosexual or because they were perceived to be so.

The history is shocking. The ban was wrong, but the way it was enforced was absolutely repugnant. The report gives testimony after testimony from former LGBT members of the Armed Forces and those who were not LGBT but, in some cases, were perceived to be so. How on earth could we have had a piece of legislation that even talked about someone being “perceived to be” so? Who was supposed to make the decisions or the judgment about how somebody looked, dressed or walked? What world had we taken ourselves into, and what right did the Ministry of Defence have to put forward a set of rules for men and women who only wanted to serve their country in the best way possible?

There is a tragic case, outlined on pages 78 and 79, of somebody now in their sixties who had only ever wanted to be a Royal Marine, and at 15 they were finally allowed to sign up and put their name forward. Then, after a drunken night out, another male youngster, also of 16, ended up in his bed. The person who gave their testimony now was not homosexual but was subjected to an examination that, as he said, was not with his consent, and he was forced to leave the Royal Marines. As a country, we need to do everything possible to make reparations to those who lost their careers and their dignity.

The cases outlined here are tragic. Following some of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, I would like the Minister to give the House a sense of the timeline that His Majesty’s Government have in mind for responding to all the recommendations in this report and, where they do not accept the recommendations, to make explicit what alternatives are being put in place to ensure that justice finally can be given to veterans and the families of those who have already died. There is a suggestion in here of a recommendation that interested parties who are sufficiently close should be able to make a case for veterans who have passed away, or perhaps committed suicide because of the way they were treated. I would like to know what His Majesty’s Government propose for people being able to bring cases, whether legislation is going to be brought forward and what role Parliament will play, because we all need to make sure that any changes and reparations are done in a timely manner. We are talking about justice being denied for at least 23 years, but for many people more than half a century. This needs to be rectified as soon as possible.

Finally, in light of the comments in both the report and the Secretary of State’s Statement on Wednesday, can the Minister reassure the House that nobody in His Majesty’s Armed Forces today faces injustice and prejudice because of their gender identity or sexual orientation, or even—heaven forbid—the perception of either of these, because we really need to have moved on?

Defence Command Paper Refresh

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I am always grateful to the Minister for her co-operation and help when it comes to these Statements. There may be some differences, but our overall objective is the same, particularly at this moment with our support for Ukraine in its war with Russia. Could the Minister initiate talks through the usual channels about a longer debate involving more of your Lordships’ House, perhaps in the autumn, when time allows? A longer debate on all these matters would be helpful for us. Could she consider that?

In the light of the work we have done between us, I particularly ask the Minister to relay our thanks to the Defence Secretary in view of his announcement that he is to step down. At this time, it is particularly important to note his leadership with respect to Ukraine and in building a coalition of support in NATO and beyond for that effort. I know that maintaining public support has been very important to him. He has been a Defence Secretary of integrity who has done all he can to strengthen our defence and that of our allies, including our nuclear deterrent and its modernisation. I would be grateful if the Minister could pass that on; I am sure it is a view held by many in this House.

On public support, can the Minister say what we are doing to continue our support for the Ukrainian people? Maintenance of their morale is crucial, and we can only admire their effort and resolve in the face of Russian aggression. In that vein, continued support in this country is also important. Can the Minister reiterate the measures the Government are taking to explain why we are involved in the conflict in Ukraine, and why it is so important for us all?

On the future, can the Minister assure us that an incoming Defence Secretary will not initiate a defence refresh 2 or indeed 3? It is crucial that the current Defence Command Paper is seen as a longer-term plan. To that end, with a general election approaching, what discussions are the Government planning to have with my right honourable friend in the other place, John Healey MP? It is important for our defence that this is an ongoing plan, with consensus built across Whitehall.

The defence plan contains a lot of strategic vision, including the demand to be a campaigning department and to tackle skills shortages, but it fails in some respects to outline in detail what changes to various other plans should be made. That is very important, since the Command Paper says, in a crucial phrase, that we have shifted

“from a competitive age to a contested and volatile world”—

mentioning Russia and China, of course, but other threats too, including those posed by terrorism and fragile regions. What does that mean for the current shape of our Armed Forces as envisaged two years ago, with the change being made in the Defence Command Paper?

The Defence Secretary says that we must

“match our ambitions with our resources”.

To do that, what ambitions have been left out? The defence paper also says we must match our equipment plans to our budget. Does that leave a shortfall? If so, in what?

Many questions are left unanswered in the Command Paper. Why does the paper not halt the cut in troop numbers—which, as we have seen, has led to the smallest number of troops since Napoleon—following the second-in-command at NATO, a British officer, saying that the British Army was now too small? I remind noble Lords that the Army has been cut by 25,000 since 2010 to 76,000 and, despite the threat from Putin, will fall again to 73,000 by 2025.

The defence paper confirms cuts in tank numbers. Despite equipment promises elsewhere, how can we be sure that the MoD can deliver them, given that just on Sunday the Defence Committee published a report into military procurement that said the system was broken? Thousands of skilled Armed Forces jobs remain unfilled, and supply is now a real problem. Again, little is said about how to address these problems now, although plenty is said about the future.

We fully support NATO and defence across the world with our allies, but troop numbers are being cut, as are tank numbers; one of our aircraft carriers remains in dock; Ajax is still a promise rather than a reality; there are problems in the engines of many of our new destroyers; Hercules transport planes have been scrapped while we will wait for the A400M; we have inadequate stockpiles; and defence spending at 2.5% of GDP is still an aspiration rather than a full commitment.

Many real questions come out of the Defence Command Paper. Of course we support the Government, but these are challenges that they need to address. The Government must reassure us that, in our support for NATO, we have the Armed Forces that we need.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, as so often from these Benches, I echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. There is nothing in his comments or questions with which these Benches would disagree, so I will augment them.

First, I want to express disappointment that the Secretary of State is stepping down. His time as Secretary of State for Defence has been important, and his leadership on the Ukrainian situation has been particularly significant. We can only hope that when the next reshuffle comes, the Prime Minister is able to find someone to serve as Secretary of State who can lead our defence capabilities and take this defence refresh forward effectively, because we are at a difficult time. The fact that we have a refresh after only two years is significant. It is clear that what was said in 2021 was not sufficiently forward-looking; we were looking at the threats of today and not those of tomorrow.

While much is to be welcomed in this defence refresh, so much of it seems to rely on the lessons we have learned from Ukraine. Great: we need to learn the lessons of the last 15 months, but are we thinking forward sufficiently strategically? What is being put forward, and what was outlined in the Secretary of State’s Statement yesterday, seems to be modest in its ambitions in many ways. Saying that we will not be looking at new platforms is probably just as well, because, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, has touched upon, defence procurement is an area where we have been remarkably weak. The defence platforms that have been procured—Ajax, the “Queen Elizabeth” class and various destroyers—have all come with problems.

What is being proposed in the defence refresh seems to be more limited in terms of procurement, talking about working closely with industry. Like the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, I press the Minister on whether His Majesty’s Government have given any thought to their procurement procedures. It is fine to talk about working more closely with industry, but have they got their procedures right? What lessons have been learned in that regard?

It is noticeable that the new mantra being put forward is about partnership. When I have raised issues with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office over the years, I have stressed the need, post Brexit, for having closer bilateral relationships and stronger multilateral relationships. So it is good to hear that in a defence Statement, but it comes alongside this mantra of “allied by design, national by exception”. A cynic might suggest that is simply because alone the United Kingdom is too small to act in the way His Majesty’s Government have so often suggested they want it to act. The defence refresh talks about being more agile and having a role globally. Is that really feasible if we are sticking with the size of troops, whether regulars or reservists, outlined in 2021? Is it not time to think about troop numbers again? Do we have the size of forces that we need in this world of contestation rather than competition? Have His Majesty’s Government really thought this through adequately?

Finally, there is a suggestion that we need to think again about risk and how we view risk. Could the Minister explain what is really meant? Again, the Statement and the refresh document seem to be quite limited in explaining what His Majesty’s Government really mean about this.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, for their helpful remarks at the beginning of their questions. I thank them particularly for their tributes to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence, Mr Ben Wallace. I am very appreciative of the sentiments that have been articulated, and I think they are echoed across Parliament and the wider public domain. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, referred to him as a “Defence Secretary of integrity” and I could not possibly disagree with that.

Ben Wallace and I first met in 1999, when, as absolute rookies, we stepped through the doors of the newly revived Scottish Parliament. I remember thinking at that time that this was a decent, principled, very solid young man. My opinion over these many years has not changed one jot. It has been an honour to be one of his Ministers. It has been a pleasure to work with someone with such a passion for the department and such a commitment to changing things for the better. I can tell from the comments I have heard within the department that he has been regarded as a very good steward of defence. There is widespread admiration, and genuine regret that he has decided to step down. I will make sure that I convey the thanks of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, to him.

A number of important points were raised. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, raised—I will include the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, in my comments because she associated herself with the points he raised—the interesting issue of public support for the war in Ukraine. That is a very important matter. Generally speaking, people have been so shocked by the prospect, and now reality, of a third war in Europe when they thought that those days were behind us. I think the public understand that, in the very difficult age of hybrid and competitive threat in which we live, the defence capability within the United Kingdom is one of their best protectors. It is one of their gilt-edged insurance policies, which is trying to keep the nation safe and to exercise our influence in global affairs. I know that my ministerial colleagues have been active in disseminating that message. I have picked up some comment from those in the media that they too understand that. It is an important point and something we certainly need to keep looking at, because the one thing we should never take for granted is the safety and security of the country.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, raised the status of this Defence Command Paper refresh and asked whether a new Defence Secretary would have another one. I hope noble Lords will agree, having looked at the coherence and character of this refresh—I invite noble Lords to remember that this was not drawn up on the back of an envelope; it was distilled out of extensive initial consultation way beyond the MoD to stakeholders and academia. We genuinely wanted to find out from these informed sources how we should be shaping our Defence Command Paper refresh and making sure that it remained pinned to the integrated review refresh because the two have a synergy that must not be broken.

I think everyone recognised—again, I say this to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, who specifically raised it—that the 2021 paper was not sufficiently forward looking. What happened post 2021 is that the issues defined as the primary preoccupations of defence—the threat from Russia, the challenge posed by China, and the growing nature of threat and the hybrid form it can take and hence the unpredictability of how threat might manifest itself—did not, of course, take into account the conflict in Ukraine. Quite simply, that has galvanised thought.

The conflict in Ukraine has done two things. First, I think it has changed mindsets, not just on the part of the MoD, hence this refreshed Command Paper, but it has absolutely galvanised the defence industry, which had put a lot of its manufacturing production capability into deep freeze—thinking it was never going to be required. Secondly, it has galvanised attitudes across the world, not just within Europe and NATO. There has been a recognition that the unthinkable actually can happen. It is very foolish to imagine that you can allow yourself to remain unprepared for that.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that, if she looks at the current refreshed paper and back at the 2021 paper, she will find that the broad shapes and issues identified remain the same. But we have acknowledged in the MoD—and it is made clear in the refreshed paper—that we have to move at pace, with agility, flexibility and resilience that perhaps we did not anticipate three years ago.

The paper makes this very clear, both in its text and its graphics, because a picture tells a thousand stories. I was having a look through it and was very pleased to see some ladies in some of the images looking very fierce and doing all sorts of incredible things. If you look at this as a whole it is an extremely solid, well-structured and very coherent document. I would say to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and certainly the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, that I do not see anyone wanting to change this any time soon. It has been built to last. It is specifically not about soundbite announcements. It is very deliberately structured to explain where we have got to, where we need to get to and how we think we do that.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, mentioned that there was no outline detail about the other plans. What is clear in here is that the whole sense of direction and the pace of change is accelerating. It is visible within this Defence Command Paper refresh how we are approaching that, whether we are embracing science and technology, whether we are embracing a new model for our people, whether we are embracing a new campaigning attitude and whether we are embracing putting MoD Main Building on to a campaigning footing, which we are doing. That is incredibly changing to the mindset that has prevailed in Main Building. This is not so much about the detail of what other plans may involve. The equipment plan stands; it is public. The orders placed for equipment and ships stand. We will need these things. They are all part of our holistic approach as we move forward.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, very specifically raised troop numbers and mentioned Napoleon. I think more instinctively of Wellington—but never mind, we are even-handed in this House. I do not remember Wellington walking around benefiting from unmanned aerial drones or clutching a mobile phone and being able to control operations from five miles behind the source of conflict. The point is that we have learned from Ukraine that the capacity of technology, which also has moved at an astonishing pace, has completely changed how we look at conflict and how we cohere what we have. You will see repeatedly throughout this document a reference to the “whole force”. This is a very important recognition that we now look at how we contribute across our whole capability. We have contributions coming from five domains. This is no longer about looking at one single service and saying, “We’ll need to do more with that” or “do more with this”. What we have to look at is what the capability requires to address the threat that we think is out there and how we most intelligently cohere that capability to produce the response to that threat.

On troop numbers, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, is aware, we currently have 73,000 regulars and 1,000 reserves. However, something else is also clear in here, which I think is exciting. I often wondered, and have asked questions about, the silos in which our workforce existed. Those noble Lords who are familiar with the Armed Forces will know that we have three distinct single services, a civilian cohort and incredible skills across all of them. That is why it is important to remember, as we approach this new age, as outlined in the paper, that it is about looking at the whole force and then working out which parts of the capability we need. I say to the noble Lord that yes, I am satisfied that the balance of numbers that we have across our single services is appropriate. We are never complacent. We constantly look at recruitment. We think that our Armed Forces offer a very exciting career for anyone minded to join them and we are doing what we can to improve on that offer and to make sure that it is an attractive one and that people will be minded to join.

I have tried to deal with all the points that have been raised. I hope that I have, but as usual I will look at Hansard and, if there is anything that I have missed, I shall write to the noble Lord and to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith.