(1 day, 8 hours ago)
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Lord Farmer
To ask His Majesty’s Government how they plan to defend the United Kingdom against hypersonic missiles.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)
My Lords, the Ministry of Defence, in collaboration with NATO allies, through AUKUS pillar 2 and with other international partners, is working on hypersonic and counter-hypersonic weapons programmes. Central to this is the work of the UK’s Missile Defence Centre, which funds research to develop new capabilities, to sustain existing ones and to better integrate into the UK-wide science and technology sector. Further IAMD capabilities are being considered through the strategic defence review.
Lord Farmer (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Since 2020, when Sky Sabre replaced Rapier missiles, missile warfare has evolved in front of our eyes in the two major war zones of Ukraine and the Middle East. Last month the IISS reported that integrated air and missile defence is an “ambition” but “not the reality” in Europe and that
“the UK does not have the capability”
to defend against a concentrated intercontinental ballistic missile attack. The report of this House’s International Relations and Defence Committee, Ukraine: a Wake-up Call, published last autumn, heard that overreliance on NATO partners means our defences are “negligible” and we urgently need to increase investment in integrated air and missile defence. In light of this, will the Government be prioritising the need for defence beyond Sky Sabre, given this concerning appraisal and the developments in long-range drones and hypersonic missile systems that I mentioned earlier?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
The noble Lord raises very important points, but some of them will have to wait for the outcome of the defence review. He mentioned Sky Sabre. We are increasing the number of Sky Sabre units to nine, which is a significant increase, so we are not waiting for the outcome of the defence review. We are upgrading all the Type 45 destroyer Sea Viper missiles to make them more capable of dealing with ballistic missile attack. Again, we are not waiting for the outcome of the defence review.
We have a European project, the Diamond Project, where information is shared between missile defence systems across Europe. Again, we not waiting for the outcome of the defence review. The Sky Shield defence initiative looks at information sharing and capability. Again, we are not waiting for the defence review. But the noble Lord is absolutely right to say that air defence is being looked at by the Government and being looked at by all of our eyes, because it is becoming increasingly important not just with respect to defence on the battlefield but with respect to homeland defence as well. Clearly, all of us are going to have to look more carefully at that.
Lord Spellar (Lab)
Does the Minister accept, notwithstanding the importance of upgrading our air defence, that our fundamental response to intercontinental ballistic missiles with nuclear capabilities will still be our nuclear deterrent capacity?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
My noble friend knows that this Government, like the previous Government, fully support the nuclear deterrent as an important way of deterring our adversaries at the most serious and strategic level. We are currently developing the successor programme to upgrade and renew that nuclear capability. This Government and previous Governments have consistently said that the nuclear deterrent is right at the heart of our defence posture and will remain so.
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, mentioned the need for relying on other allies, perhaps not just the United States. In his initial Answer, the Minister referred to AUKUS. When His Majesty’s Government took office last year, they very quickly reaffirmed their support for AUKUS. Does the Minister believe that the United States is equally committed? If not, what should we be doing?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
I do believe that the United States—let us say again, we have a special relationship with the United States—is a really important ally for this country, if not the most important. We should state that now and we should state that as we go forward. In terms of AUKUS, we remain totally confident with respect to both pillar 1 and pillar 2, along with Australia. Australia, the UK and the US will develop AUKUS and that too, in terms of hypersonic capability in pillar 2, remains an important part of the work we are doing to defend our country and our freedoms, and democracy across the world.
Lord Stirrup (CB)
My Lords, space-based surveillance plays a key role in hypersonic missile defence of the future. Can the Minister assure the House that this case has been made with sufficient vigour to those conducting the strategic defence review, not least because of the potential of leveraging the excellent satellite manufacture and delivery capacity in Scotland?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
The noble and gallant Lord makes an important point on the importance of space and satellites. That case has been made with vigour to the defence review and we await the outcome of that. On the second part of the noble and gallant Lord’s question and his point about Scotland, of course it is important. Part of what we are saying with the growth in defence spending is that we need to ensure that there is an emphasis on UK manufacturing and on the regions and every nation of the UK, so that they too can benefit from that. It informs and helps develop the Government’s growth agenda.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, there is already in place a framework to develop a sovereign UK hypersonic missile, with £1 billion identified over a period of seven years. Given recent events, can the Minister say whether he agrees that the enhanced global security obligation now falling on the UK requires us to consider accelerating that programme? It will require more money. In that case, can the Minister reassure this House that, if the Chagos deal goes ahead, not one penny of the defence budget will be required to pay for that?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
We will await the outcome of what happens on the Chagos deal. No deal has been made at the present time. On the £1 billion the noble Baroness referred to, this is in respect of the Missile Defence Centre which, as she knows, was established some 20 years ago and has been supported consistently by different Governments. The Missile Defence Centre looks at the capabilities that we have and will need. It was initially set up to deal with ballistic threats but has since had its remit extended to look at the threat we will have from hypersonic missiles as well. As such, I think it is important. And let me just say that, in terms of accelerating, I think we are going to have to accelerate a lot of our defence capability.
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)
Does the Minister agree that the best defence against hypersonic missile attack, or indeed any form of attack, is to maintain the integrity of the North Atlantic Alliance and to show that we stand by our friends? Will he pass on our congratulations to his colleagues in government on the way they have done so in recent days?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for his comments on the work that the Prime Minister and many others have done to bring us to this point. NATO remains the cornerstone of our defence; the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is fundamental to all of that, and he has heard what the Prime Minister has said about it. We regard the United States as our most important ally and we hope to act as a bridge. It is really important that we continue to reiterate the importance of the relationship between this country and the US, and therefore the importance of the NATO alliance.
Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms and Chief Whip (Lord Kennedy of Southwark) (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, we will hear from my noble friend Lord West next, and then the noble Lord, Lord Howell.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
Should the Chagos deal be signed—which I hope it will not be, because I think it is a mistake—we know that President Trump likes good deals, so will we negotiate with him that he will pay the £18 billion for the cost of hiring an airfield on one of our islands which we have given to Mauritius?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Chagos deal that my noble friend seeks me to address, let me just say this: the fundamental point from our point of view is that the Diego Garcia military base remains in the hands of the Americans through the lease arrangement that we have got, should the Chagos deal go through. That is the most important part of that deal.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
Would the Minister agree that these hypersonic missiles are really the great-great grandchildren of the original V-2 after the Second World War—although obviously with far greater range and far more accuracy? Would he also agree that, judging by current Russian strategy, the targets they will probably go for first are the power stations? Destroy the utilities and you bring about social and political collapse—that is their doctrine. Would he therefore give us an assurance that we are thinking about much better defence for our power station and utility facilities, and that we are thinking about things like a sort of Iron Dome-plus-plus, which again will require American support, in order to ensure that we are not destroyed by these missiles before we have the right defences in place?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
I am not sure an Iron Dome-type arrangement is the best way in which to defend our cities. The noble Lord is absolutely right to point out that, given the wake-up call we have had from Ukraine and the way that warfare is developing, the defence of critical national infrastructure will be absolutely essential for us as we go forward.
The homeland defence of this country is something that we have not thought about—whatever the rights and wrongs of that—for a number of years. We are going to have to consider homeland defence, whether that threat comes from drones, hypersonic missiles or through threats to underwater cables. The development of that homeland defence will play a crucial part in the way that we defend our country and our ability to work with our allies to defend not only Europe but other places across the world. So, the noble Lord is absolutely right to point that out about critical national infrastructure.
As the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, pointed out, this has been a wake-up call to us all. Who would have expected two, three, five or 10 years ago that in this Chamber we would be talking about how this country defends itself against a potential attack on our critical national infrastructure? But that is where we are and that is what this Government will do. We take that seriously and the defence review will address it. It is certainly important for all of us to defend that, and the British public should know it.