Armed Forces: Historical Cases

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

rose—

[Stephen Pound]

I appreciate that it is not me who is popular, but the words that hon. Members have to say, which need to be heard by the House. Can we please try to concentrate on building on the peace process? That is why the Opposition endorse and support the words in the DUP motion.

[Stephen Pound]

The hon. Gentleman has already ventilated those points. He has made them again and, as ever, his voice will be not denied but heard. However, we are here today not to kick the legal profession, although that is also tempting, but, hopefully, to move on. On the issue of the individual who has been named, that was then. Today we are talking about something far more important: moving forward.

[Ms Ritchie]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the most pressing issue is not only the need for temperate language, but that, on the far side of the election, we will have political institutions up and running and there will be parallel negotiations to reach a conclusion on this matter? The one thing that victims want is closure. Too many people are in pain in Northern Ireland. Young people want to move on to deal with health, education and the economy, because those are the pressing issues that face us daily.

[Stephen Pound]

Not for the first time, the hon. Lady speaks an enormous amount of good sense. Her comments should be our watchword for the rest of the debate.

There cannot be progress to the future without completely settling the issues of the past. There has to be closure, investigation and the disinfectant of sunlight, to coin a phrase. We have to move on, certain in the knowledge that we have done everything to investigate the past.

There are many hon. Members from whom I want to hear. I close by saying that the Opposition have great respect for those who serve and have served in our armed forces, and who take pride in the work that they have done. On the very few occasions when there might be a possibility of action outside the law, those claims must be investigated fully. It is crucial to say that those who wear the uniform would want such cases to be investigated. No one wants an exemption for members of the armed forces.

A great deal of sense has been spoken today, and doubtless there will be more. Let us try to get through 2 March. I greatly hope that the new Assembly will be up and running and that the Stormont House agreement will be implemented. I hope that we will have debates about the great and glorious future of Northern Ireland in which we will talk about a prosperous economy and people who have pride in that extraordinary part of the world. I hope that we will look not backwards but forward to a glorious, sunlit future. Every single person in Northern Ireland deserves the right to peace and prosperity. They have earned it, and I hope that the House will give them a fair wind and our support.

EU Referendum: Northern Ireland

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Wednesday 16th March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Lady for her helpful intervention. That is what farmers have been saying to me consistently. They want to remain within the European Union because there is certainty with the direct payments that they currently receive. There is absolutely no certainty in an exit about the type, form and nature of the moneys that those farmers would receive, because the UK is currently going down the road of austerity and cuts—we will probably hear about that later, in the Budget. I do not want to see the farmers whom I represent in South Down, nor those of my colleagues, subjected to such cuts.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ritchie]

I will take one final intervention.

[Stephen Pound]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. Before she moved on to agriculture, she was talking about the political process. Does she agree that the cross-community support for peace won, and the role of the EU in the peace process in Northern Ireland, were essential in, and continue in subsequent programmes to be an essential component of, the peace process? The European Union has been positive for the peace process in Northern Ireland.

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his helpful intervention. All the moneys that have come out of the peace programme have brought people together, right across communities; they helped to build that peace and political process and that delicate, intricate network of relationships.

The same has happened with the Interreg programme. I look at those cross-border programmes. I look at what has happened up in the north-west, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), with district councils along the border there between Derry and Donegal; down between Fermanagh, Cavan and Monaghan; and also in my own area—the east border region—with the constituency of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), my own constituency, Armagh, Banbridge and Craigavon, with Louth and Monagahan. Those relationships have borne money for many types of cross-border project and have allowed people to grow together in mutual understanding, through the benefit of the European Union. I wish others who think differently would stop being naysayers in this debate.

Much has been said about the impact on farm subsidies. It is an area where our economy is hugely reliant on our ability to export to and work with the south. Farming makes up a bigger proportion of our economy in Northern Ireland than it does in England, Scotland or Wales, and our smaller population means that we have no other option but to export. That means Northern Irish farmers are especially reliant on access to EU markets, including the south, and farmers in Northern Ireland receive more than £230 million a year in support from the European Union.

The Ulster Farmers Union has made it clear—it has probably already said so this morning in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee—that that support has been vital in keeping our sector sustainable through tough times. I am certain that £230 million a year is more support than we would ever be able to secure from the British Government, should we vote to leave the EU. My certainty on that comes from the years that I and my colleagues before me have spent fighting for the interests of farmers in South Down and other constituencies.

Both the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Cabinet Office have made it clear that there are no serious contingency plans in place for how support for farmers would be replaced should we leave the EU. Every penny would have to be fought for, in competition with all of Scotland, England and Wales. For others to suggest the contrary is totally spurious. No matter what they claim, the only way we can be certain that the support for farmers will continue is to vote to remain this June. Of course, we have already heard some politicians promise that their good relations with the British Government will enable them to secure even more support for Northern Ireland should we leave the EU. I ask those politicians: where have you been for the past five years, as we have seen cut after cut to services in Northern Ireland?

The damage to agriculture will come not only from the loss of subsidies, but from the instability and confusion that transitioning away from the common agricultural policy would cause. One need only look at the massive problems caused for farmers by the ongoing delays in getting payments out in the basic payment scheme. Delays in the payment of European support have pushed many farmers into debt and hugely undermined the sector. Imagine how much greater damage would be caused by the wholesale loss of European support. In contrast to the instability and uncertainty we would face outside the EU, if we work with our neighbours in the south and with the greater Common Market—to which we can export our products, and which could be fractured if there were an exit—we can build an outward-looking, sustainable agricultural sector.

I would like to conclude with a few words on the founding purpose of the European Union and what it means to us in the north. The European Union was founded to bring peace to a continent that had been torn apart by war and conflict, and to enshrine respect for human rights throughout the continent. The duty to build a lasting peace may seem far removed in the UK-wide debate, where the memories and sacrifices of the second world war grow more distant by the year, but it is something that we in Northern Ireland understand all too well. For us in Northern Ireland, the EU’s principles of co-operation, integration and reconciliation are as relevant today as they were 40 years ago.

The EU has been a practical as well as a symbolic partner for us. We should not take for granted the money that comes to us when we look at the peace programme and at the funding from Interreg. Our membership of the European Union also helps to guarantee the human rights protections that made the Good Friday agreement possible. Those protections have since been further embedded, post-Lisbon, through the EU charter of fundamental rights, made binding on all member states since 2009. I therefore regret the decision of the British Government to scrap the Human Rights Act.

The EU might not be perfect, and we do not claim it is. We want more democracy, more accountability and more engagement, but voting leave will not get us any of that. Ultimately, voting leave would send a message to the world that we are more interested in looking inward than engaging with our neighbours. It would send a message that we have lost faith in building a better Europe and a better Northern Ireland within an island of Ireland. That would be a disaster for us. I still believe that dialogue, openness and integration are the only means to a better society, both in Northern Ireland and throughout Europe. Those, for me, are the principles of the European Union. That is why I will be voting to remain this June and why my party and I will be encouraging others to do the same—not out of fear, but out of hope and anticipation for the future that we can build together.

Broadband Speeds: Northern Ireland

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Wednesday 6th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his very helpful intervention. I agree that there needs to be more evidence-based research to highlight the areas that are not yet covered by good quality, high broadband speeds, particularly those areas that are so distant from the cabinets. There also needs to be an emphasis on bringing fibre to the premises. FTTP needs to be a part of digital infrastructure and needs to be investigated.

There is also a view that Openreach should be structurally separated from BT, as BT is the sole provider, to allow Openreach to invest in delivering an effective infrastructure for the whole telecommunications industry. Communication providers could then consider investing in an independent Openreach. Ofcom should look at that, and the Minister should also look at it, perhaps to refer it to the Competition and Markets Authority.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

When the hon. Lady and I enjoyed each other’s company—I certainly enjoyed her company—in Downpatrick just before Christmas, I was mightily impressed by the way that the local council was providing a vast range of services online. Is there any evidence that there is a failure of take-up in those essential council services because of the lack of connectivity, particularly in the Mournes region?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank my hon. Friend for his helpful intervention and for his good visit to South Down on 5 December. He is right: businesses that are not near the cabinet and premises that are not served need much better levels of technology. It is our local economy and local services that lose out.

Another issue is that structural separation will take time, so there is a need to move quickly to open up BT Openreach and provide better access for competitors, including to the network infrastructure. For example, other countries in Europe have managed to do that through physical infrastructure access under the existing regulatory regime. Spain and Portugal are leading examples of that. There is also a need to investigate the research into the whole rural broadband scheme, which has not been terribly effective. Alternative technologies need to be investigated. I met the Internet Services Providers Association this morning. It has a broad umbrella membership, and people and companies within it are doing that work. We need to look at alternative technologies that are capable of delivering the superfast speeds that are already universally available elsewhere. Subsidising take-up would be a more efficient solution for remaining rural areas.

The Government should focus any intervention on stimulating demand by subsidising the up-front costs of satellite broadband take-up. I would like to see the re-introduction of the broadband voucher scheme, which businesses found useful. I thought it would have happened in the autumn statement, so perhaps the Minister can reflect on that issue. In a recent written answer, he stated that

“this Government is working closely with Ofcom to implement the broadband Universal Service Obligation by 2020, as recently announced by the Prime Minister.”

There is doubt and apprehension that that might not happen, because there is not that collaboration between the technologies. There is monopoly control by BT, and separation and structural reform needs to take place.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Wednesday 12th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

Inspired, as ever, by the wondrous words of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), I can only say that I am sure the Deputy Prime Minister, were he present, would say that he not only loves the people of North Down, but adores the people of South Down—in fact, of all the Downs—and that he would almost certainly express his adoration and passion for the whole of northern Europe, nay the globe. For the record, may I say on behalf of Her Majesty’s Opposition that we have immense respect and affection for the people of North Down and, if you will allow me, Mr Deputy Speaker, especially for their elected representative, the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon)?

I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker, that my hon. Friend the Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis) is not in the Chamber. He is currently gliding smoothly into Dulles airport for what used to be the St Patrick’s day celebrations, but are now the St Patrick’s fortnight celebrations. He has assured me that he will watch this debate with keen interest. I have no doubt that when the party starts in the White House, he will demur from any invitations in order to watch it on catch-up.

[Ms Ritchie]

rose—

Driver and Vehicle Agency (Northern Ireland)

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Tuesday 15th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Lady for her useful and beneficial intervention. Obviously, if there is to be modernisation, an idea which none of us rejects or opposes, it could take place in Northern Ireland facilities—the headquarters in Coleraine and the other offices. In fact, we could take services that currently take place in Britain and, I have to say, perhaps do them much better, more efficiently and more diligently.

I want to move on to the views of the staff who responded to the consultation. They say that the existing closure programme has had a serious impact on services offered by the DVLA to the motorist in Great Britain. It is unclear whether those services can be properly managed, but no doubt they could be if they were brought to Northern Ireland.

Interestingly, a commissioned study by Oxford Economics has estimated that the DVLA proposal for the removal of services from Northern Ireland would have a direct negative impact of £14.5 million in gross value added terms, as well as an impact of £7 million on workplace wages in the Northern Ireland economy, which, given the size of Northern Ireland, is a remarkable statistic. The removal of £22.2 million from the Northern Ireland economy will have an impact on all its sectors, notably wholesale and retail trade, accommodation spaces, food services, entertainment and recreation, plus financial services, property, housing and the supply industries—and all that at a time of economic downturn, although there might be a slight lift that we would all welcome.

The figures I have cited for what would be removed from the Northern Ireland economy do not add up to what the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Wimbledon stated would be significant savings. Surely, a more acceptable form of improvement would be to upgrade the DVA’s IT systems. We must ask why the IT systems in Northern Ireland have been neglected, and not upgraded as a matter of necessity over the years. We ask that question because that has been replicated in other service areas. Some people say that, over recent years, some areas might have been prepared for privatisation and others for closure. For me, it is simply a case of downgrading a service and undermining the economic stability that exists in Northern Ireland.

I understand that staff working in the DVA feel that the service has been vigorously, systematically and aggressively underfunded for many years by the Department for Transport, despite which the staff have actively sought to provide the Northern Ireland motorist—whether the ordinary person with a car, someone working with agricultural machinery or people in the haulage industry— with an excellent level of service. That under-resourcing has left the staff open to the business criticism and the challenges in the current DVLA proposal for the future of vehicle registration and licensing services in Northern Ireland.

I am sure that, following the consultation that ended on this proposal on 11 September, the current Minister of the Environment in Northern Ireland will meet the Minister separately, as will a cross-party delegation of MPs from Northern Ireland. I hope that we can relay our serious concerns to him and demonstrate that the move will have a disproportionate impact on services, people and jobs in Northern Ireland.

Given the 100% opposition to the move and the strong case that has been made for the retention and the expansion of the services, I urge the Minister and his Department immediately to review the position, retain the jobs and, as the hon. Member for East Londonderry said, visit the office in Coleraine and pay a snapshot visit to the other offices. They should do that in conjunction with the local Minister of the Environment, Mr Durkan, who has a clear picture of what is going on and who has been steadfastly opposed to the closure.

[Stephen Pound]

Does the hon. Lady agree that as the efficiency case has been lost, cost is clearly the issue? Is she aware, as many of us are, that overtime payments in Swansea since this programme started have totalled £1.63 million? Does that not make a complete nonsense of the centralisation case?

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I was told that the figures for overtime payments in Swansea were nearer to £1.65 million. I am in no doubt that the work that precipitated those overtime payments could clearly be carried out in Northern Ireland where the service to the customer and the dedication of the staff are second to none. I urge the Minister to keep the DVA jobs and services throughout Northern Ireland. If he does that, he and his Department will not be found wanting.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ritchie]

It was my very clear understanding that my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle said that if the hon. Member for Belfast East were to press her amendment to a Division, he, like me, would support her—although I think I might be a Teller in such a Division. We in the SDLP believe that there is a need to move towards greater transparency and accountability. That can be balanced against the political progress we are making in the interests of the public good and, above all, the wider needs of society in Northern Ireland, because the experience of the last few weeks tells us that the public want politics to move in that direction. They want us, while serving them, to exercise our job in the right and proper and accountable manner.

[Stephen Pound]

We have heard a great deal this evening about the threats and dangers that could possibly be attracted to party political donors. It is perhaps salutary to mention that if such threats exist to those who donate to political parties, credit should be given to those who have the courage to participate fully in the democratic process as candidates and elected representatives, and perhaps we in this House do not give enough credit to those who sit with us in this Chamber and who take the most extraordinary risks in conditions that are frequently beyond the imagining of us on this side of the water. Many right hon. and hon. Members sitting here tonight have had very close personal experiences in that regard, so when we talk about the threat to donors let us also salute the courage of those who participate fully in the democratic process.

May I, in these brief remarks, say that I thought that the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) showed his fine—I was going to say almost Jesuitical subtlety but he probably would not thank me for that—analysis of the situation when he referred to the need to advance incrementally and organically? It is one thing to legislate, but we cannot legislate for human behaviour; we cannot demand that people’s behaviour and instincts change, and that society and culture change, because a piece of law has been approved in this House. A cultural change, an organic change, has to take place, and that is, of necessity, a slow process; it is an incremental process. None of us disagrees with the desirability of the destination; we all want to be in that place. It is the road map and the route we are talking about today. In the particular circumstances of politics in Northern Ireland, proceeding festina lente—I hope hon. Members will forgive me a spot of Latin—should be our watchword on this occasion. In recognition of that, the proceeding slowly and cautiously option is by far the best one. I look forward to hearing from the Minister, possibly also on the subject of transparency of the Conservative party in Northern Ireland.

Fuel Duty (Northern Ireland)

Debate between Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick and Stephen Pound

Wednesday 22nd February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Ms Ritchie]

The hon. Gentleman brings me into an interesting debate about the devolution of tax-varying powers to Northern Ireland, which my party supports. He raises the other important issue of the block. No doubt, as with corporation tax, that matter will be decided by the Office for Budget Responsibility. Naturally, we in Northern Ireland would say, collectively across parties, that we are a special region within the UK, notwithstanding our political or identity differences. We are coming out of a legacy of conflict and that needs to be addressed for the people who live there.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

Surely, the point is that Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom with a contiguous land border with another European country. Just as in Europe, there are variable tax rates on borders—between Luxembourg and Belgium, for example—so surely there is a case for recognising that the problem is not solely part of the rural differential, although that is significant. It is a cross-border issue. We must look to that as well. Surely, Her Majesty’s Government should be working in that direction.

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I wish to progress to the issue he mentioned, because we share a land border with the south of Ireland. There are differential tax rates and we in the north of Ireland need to be given a certain degree of comfort.

With specific reference to Northern Ireland, having brought attention to the general problem besetting the market, I now turn to our own constituencies and Northern Ireland in particular, where the situation is even more severe. I have already highlighted the general point in relation to Britain, but I emphasise that from January to December last year petrol and diesel prices in Northern Ireland were the most expensive, and in January this year the price of diesel was the most expensive in the European Union. The AA has recently demonstrated that Northern Ireland has higher fuel prices than any other region and that on average we pay 134.6p at the pump, while the average price in the UK is 133.5p.

Prices continue to rise in Northern Ireland. In December 2011, it cost £66 to fill a standard 50-litre engine—£70 for diesel—and within a year this has gone up to £70, a 6% increase. A family in my constituency that owned a Ford Galaxy car with a 70-litre engine recently told me they are faced with a £100 bill every time they refill their car. Such families will be faced with paying hundreds of pounds more than they used to every year, an amount that I guarantee the Minister is not insignificant for the vast proportion of people, at a time when they are already suffering, with welfare reform proposals coming down the line and with the cost of motor car insurance much higher in Northern Ireland, particularly in rural areas, compared with comparable regions in Britain.

The average family sends £680 a year to the Treasury in London just to cover fuel duty. Many families will be affected by the public sector pay freeze enacted by the very same Treasury. The high cost of fuel is particularly problematic for the poorest in society, for whom such an amount represents a significant proportion of income and for whom the use of a car is most important to remain economically active.

There is a discrepancy not just between regions but within them, with rural areas in Northern Ireland, including my constituency, particularly prone to high prices. Indeed, this problem is exacerbated by large retailers operating across many sites, charging different premiums by location, a practice that drives up prices in certain areas, particularly in rural locations, where the dependence on fuel is often the greatest.

The problem in rural areas can be compounded by the absence of large supermarkets to drive down the prices. For example, the AA cited the lack of Asda forecourts in Northern Ireland as a key contributory factor, meaning that price competition is not as keen as in the UK. I urge the Minister to review how location-specific pricing and the absence of large supermarkets distort the market and create an unfair playing field.

We cannot separate this problem from our investment in public transport services. It may interest the Minister to know that, historically, Northern Ireland has received the lowest spend per capita on transport infrastructure, leaving the car as king and often the only viable choice. A perfect example of this is the atrocious management of the rail link between our two biggest cities, Belfast and Derry, which has been compounded by the legacy of blinding ignorance to organising the network on an all-Ireland/island basis.

Simply put, people have no option but to get in their car. Those who are priced out of the market by high fuel prices are often left economically isolated and socially disfranchised. Indeed, there needs to be joined-up thinking on a north-south basis regarding the fuel duty regime to avoid striking disparities, particularly around the border, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) mentioned. This problem distorts the local market for fuel and leaves local retailers and consumers at a marked disadvantage.

These problems are faced not only by our people but by our businesses. We hear the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and Treasury Ministers talk about rebalancing and growing the Northern Ireland economy. This seems to be rhetoric in search of a policy at the minute. Does the Minister not agree that one of the main things holding back business growth in Northern Ireland is the punitive price of petrol? Action here would be the ideal way for the Treasury to demonstrate its commitment to growing the Northern Ireland economy.

The Minister does not need to tell me the problems faced by small and medium-sized businesses in the current climate. Does she not agree that a cut in fuel duty would act as an immediate stimulus to the economy in Northern Ireland?

I do not want to create the impression, by focusing on these immediate measures, that I am ignoring the big picture. As a society, we must wean ourselves off dependence on oil. Without doing so we will have the same debate in the House year after year. Doing this will take foresight rather than expediency, and ambition rather than an “as you were” mentality, but until we reach that point, the Government must do more to help those in need; they must shoulder a fair share of the burden and not simply pass on price rises to consumers and local businesses. The Government must commit to their pledge to consult on a fuel duty stabiliser and cancel the planned duty increases scheduled for August.

In Northern Ireland this problem is particularly striking. We must address the basic problem, which is that our people pay more at the pump than in any region in the UK and, indeed, in the EU. There are clearly issues surrounding the operation of large retailers, which bring price competition, but not evenly across the board. As other hon. Members have clearly articulated, rural areas are often most vulnerable and often people and businesses in rural areas are most dependent on their cars. If the Treasury is serious about growing our local economy, would this not be an obvious place to start? I acknowledge that the Northern Ireland Executive at Stormont also have a major role to play.

These immediate measures must be buttressed by a sustainable approach to our energy future and transport infrastructure. My party and I are committed to proper investment in new, green energy technologies in Northern Ireland. I look forward to the Minister’s response.