Taskforce on Innovation, Growth and Regulatory Reform

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 17th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I disagree. As to the first part, of course I acknowledge that I answer on behalf of government, but the competence of a Minister to answer on specific questions outside his departmental responsibility is not always the same as that of the Minister responsible. I refer comments on, as I said in another answer. Concerning the second part of the noble Baroness’s question, it is entirely reasonable for any Prime Minister to seek blue-sky thinking, and ideas outside and in parallel to the Government. Mr Blair, for example, did exactly that when calling in the noble Lord, Lord Birt.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm whether the remit covers the plight of part-time working women, particularly those who work, for example, in supermarkets on zero-hour contracts and who have no rights to paid holidays, sick pay or pensions? What is the value of what would be a worthwhile exercise in having the task force if the results are not to be published?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I did not say that the results were not going to be published, but that it would be a matter for the Prime Minister whether they will be. That will happen after the report is presented, at the end of April. On the specific issues concerned, as I have said before, I will draw my noble friend’s points to the attention to those responsible. I am sure that within the terms of reference it would be open to them to look at some of the issues she describes.

Budget Statement

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Friday 12th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I warmly congratulate all noble Lords who have made their maiden speeches and welcome them to the House.

I welcome the Government’s support during this pandemic, but I query why aviation companies have been overlooked, with no specific targeted measures to ensure their swift recovery. I hope that this might be addressed. They have a strategic role to play in global Britain and have suffered the greatest loss of business in the pandemic. Is my noble friend aware that the restart grants focus on retail outlets, therefore excluding many in the travel sector? I hope that this also will be addressed.

I support the government programme of levelling up and improving infrastructure in the economy of the north. On free ports, though, I urge caution. They were abandoned in 2012 for very good reasons. I hope that the Government will urgently address issues of levelling up between rural and urban areas, especially concerning mobile and broadband connectivity.

Will the Government take the opportunity of the Budget to close the gender gap between men and women? I think in particular in terms of women’s state pension: they are now not able to take it until 66 at the earliest, yet they find it difficult in later years to find work. Also, many part-time women are disadvantaged and deprived from not being able to enrol in auto-enrolment pensions. A woman in her 20s now will retire on £100,000 less than a man—that cannot be acceptable.

Finally, the Government will be disappointed with the monthly trade figures showing a 40% drop in UK exports to the EU and a 28% fall in imports from the EU, in large part due to checks and barriers following Brexit. Will the Government seek the earliest possible agreement with the EU to agree phytosanitary checks on the same basis as agreed between the EU and New Zealand?

Financial Services Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Committee stage & Lords Hansard
Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I am glad to speak to Amendment 55 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. I placed my name to this amendment because of my concerns over indebtedness and particularly over the huge growth of household debt that has occurred during the Covid pandemic. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, I thank the Centre for Responsible Credit for the work it has undertaken on this amendment.

Last year, four Christian denominations and Church Action on Poverty published Reset the Debt. It documented the astonishing growth in indebtedness that occurred during the first lockdown and the summer. At that time, there was a hope that the economy would begin to reopen and bounce back, bringing a return to normality which would allow many people to get a handle on their growing debts. Unfortunately, the second spike in infections and increases in death meant that that economic reopening failed to materialise in the way we had hoped, causing conditions to worsen for many of those in debt. Furlough has been a lifesaver for many, and I congratulate Her Majesty’s Government on that policy, but there is a well-placed fear that once the economy opens redundancies will increase further, creating extra pressures on those who are already struggling. To quote the report:

“The lockdown continues to have profoundly unequal and poverty-increasing effects”.


At the time when the report was published, 6 million people had fallen behind on rent, council tax and other household bills because of coronavirus, with low-income families particularly turning to credit cards and overdrafts simply to survive. Covid debts, although particularly damaging for the poor, have significantly affected a variety of lower to middle-income households. This is on top of the existing debt that some of these households had incurred.

Over these past months, I have been struck by the many reports that I have received from churches, chaplaincies and charities across Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire in my diocese. They all describe the huge increase in demand from foodbanks and parish pantries, along with many more people seeking advice and relief from our of services and charities. In most cases, debt is not the consequence of a single factor but has slowly built up. However, Covid has speeded things up in a terrifying way. For the absolute poorest, debt relief orders may provide a lasting reprieve after a one-year period but many other households will be much less fortunate. Those households with a disposable income level of more than £100 per month, when compared with the lowest-income quintile, face difficult decisions and may end up being placed on a statutory debt-repayment plan and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, pointed out, may endure 10 years of full debt repayment. This can be egregious when that debt has been partially or even substantially written off and sold on to the secondary market.

Debt financing plays an important role in our economy and, despite my reservations about debt recovery practices, allows firms to profit from debt, which remains an unfortunate but perhaps necessary part of our economy. However, at the same time, there needs to be a balance. When debt has been partially written off, discounted and sold on to the secondary market, there is a strong moral case to pass on some of this discount to the debtor. It would be wrong to force an individual into misery and penury for the purpose of a full debt repayment when the original creditor readily discounted the debt to shift it on to a secondary buyer.

The amendment does not bar the purchaser of secondary debt from making a profit but merely places a limitation on how much can be reclaimed, and rightfully passes on a portion of the discount to the debtor. Limiting the potential return to more than 20% could even reduce the financial risk associated with purchasing secondary debt and may produce a more co-operative and less fearful environment for debtors and the recovery of debt.

Finally, it is worth reiterating the positive financial impacts that this would have on the Treasury. Allowing the full amount to be reclaimed may enrich the owners of the debt but will certainly cost the Treasury. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, points out, debt leads to horrifying social consequences, all of which cost the taxpayer. In not allowing the discounts from partially written-off debts to be given to the debtor, we would, in effect, be partially subsidising the social cost of debt, potentially to the tune of millions or perhaps even billions of pounds per annum. Given the increased debt resulting from the Covid crisis, morally it makes sense—there is also a strong economic case—to pass on the discounted price of the debt to people in severe financial difficulties and provide them with a fair debt write-down.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the right reverend Prelate. We both sit on the rural action group of the Church of England. I should also declare that as a Bar apprentice in Edinburgh, one of my first duties was as a debt collector. I cannot claim that I had any particular training in that regard, and I was probably the least sympathetic at the time, given my youth and inexperience. I therefore congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, on the research that she has carried out in preparing for the amendment and bringing it forward. I also thank the Reset The Debt campaign for what they have achieved, as well as the Church Action on Poverty campaign in bringing these issues to the fore.

It may be that my noble friend the Minister is not minded to look sympathetically on the amendment but, at the very least, I ask him whether he accepts that there is a problem that needs to be addressed in this regard, for the simple reason that there will be an uplift in council tax of some 5% in some areas. It would also seem that, as yet, we have failed to address the issue of zero-hour contracts, which remains vexatious.

In moving the amendment, the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, referred to food banks. My experience is not that recent but occurred between 2010 and 2015, when I had cause to visit them in my area. What impressed me most is that it was often not people on benefits who used them but those in work but who did not work sufficient hours to make ends meet. This is a category of people to whom we owe something, and is an issue that should be addressed.

In particular, I ask my noble friend what instruction is given to IVAs and others that administer debt relief orders on the power they have to be more sympathetic to and imaginative about the circumstances in which debtors find themselves. Given the rather modest remit set out in Amendment 55, I hope that my noble friend might look at it fairly sympathetically. If he feels unable to support it, perhaps he will bring forward something along these lines at the next stage.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab) [V]]

I want to say a few words at this late hour strongly in favour of Amendment 55 and mention the possibility of a wider-ranging debt jubilee. There is clearly a case for this amendment, and the same case can be made for a wider-ranging approach to relieving the burden that debt places on us all, not just on the individuals. Clearly it ruins lives and leads to much misery, but it also affects the rest of us: it acts as a drag on the economy and the recovery that we now so desperately need. Anything that we as a society can do to relieve the absolute burden of debt, the better.

The proposal in the amendment for a fair debt write-down is a welcome development to the debt relief scheme. The moral case for passing on some of the discount that currently goes to debt collection agencies is clear, and there is an advantage to the Treasury. The same case fundamentally applies to us as a whole. We need a more comprehensive package of debt cancellations, targeted at the household sector. We want a way of writing off debts, just as so many debts were written off in the financial sector 12 or 13 years ago. We were told then that some banks were too big to fail, because of the harm it would cause the economy. I argue that the challenges facing individuals, because of their debt, mean as much or even greater harm for us all.

The main argument today is that such a scheme, as well as relieving much individual misery, would provide a direct, targeted macroeconomic boost to the economy, exactly where it is needed, helping some of the most hard-up in our society. It will boost economic growth, and help those who have fallen into the misery of debt—and all of us.

Financial Services Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 28th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

I welcome the Bill and congratulate my noble friend on bringing it forward. I add my warm congratulations to my noble friend Lord Hammond of Runnymede. Being elected on the same day, I am glad to see another from the class of 1997 joining our Benches. I also give a very warm welcome to the noble Baroness, Lady Shafik, and I look forward to hearing both their contributions going forward.

I support all the objectives of this Bill, and I entirely endorse the contributions that the financial sector makes to the UK economy, not just in London but also Leeds and Edinburgh in particular. I will focus on some aspects in the current Bill that I would like to see strengthened as well as aspects that are not in it, which I hope to pursue in Committee.

I warmly welcome Clause 35 and the “Successor accounts for Help-to-Save savers”. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, I have sympathy with the request and briefing from Macmillan, calling for support for cancer patients, who are a most vulnerable group in a particular time of need. When undergoing both diagnosis and subsequent treatment, they often enter a period where their financial circumstances are severely compromised. I believe that the FCA’s contention that the current principles are adequate needs to be qualified, and therefore I have some sympathy with the call for a statutory duty of care in this regard. I would very much welcome my noble friend’s response to that particular call.

I also hope that this Bill and its provisions will give the opportunity to review how the regulations, which came into force in 2012, on short selling are currently working. I believe that that is a particularly distasteful and immoral practice, and my noble friend may prefer to pursue this through international and global means. Therefore, I would be very interested to hear what discussions he and his colleagues at the Treasury have had within the context of the OECD and other international organisations. However, I believe that this would be a good opportunity to go back and revisit these regulations and see how they are operating. At worst, they can be very damaging to the economy and employment, leading to many people losing their businesses and livelihoods.

I turn to the question of green financing and the opportunity that this would give, in the context of the Bill, to benchmark all stocks against green credentials. For me, a particularly welcome recent move has been the ban on fracking in the United States.

I will quote the words of Mark Carney, who said when he launched his Green Horizon summit in November last year:

“Private finance will play a critical role in funding the initiatives and innovations of the private sector and helping companies realign their business models for net zero.”


I believe that the COP 26 climate change summit, which the UK is hosting in Glasgow in November, will be an ideal opportunity to ensure that the UK is at the forefront of green finance. I hope that, as the Bill before us today passes through its legislative stages, it will give us an opportunity to show that London, Edinburgh, Leeds and other financial centres in the UK are at the heart of green financing. I support the Bill and look forward to its passage through this House.

Customs Miscellaneous Non-fiscal Provisions and Amendments etc. (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I add my thanks to my noble friend for presenting these regulations. My questions are not dissimilar from those that have gone before.

Are ENS declarations already happening? Is this a new form that has been devised, and will it be done digitally? Although I do not for a minute imagine that Hull will be the first port of call for goods coming from Northern Ireland, I was dismayed to learn—perhaps my noble friend will confirm that it is true—that HMRC has closed its offices in Hull. That begs the question: to what extent has HMRC closed its offices in other ports around the United Kingdom? It strikes me that having men and women on the ground at HMRC who can explain matters in good time to traders who will rely on the ENS is absolutely at the forefront of what HMRC should be doing. I do not know whether it is true that the HMRC offices in Hull have closed but it would be a matter of concern to me if they had.

I understand that the ENS will apply only to goods caught under Section 30C of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act, and that goods that are not subject to a duty will not require an ENS. Looking at the list of non-qualifying Northern Ireland goods, which has been rehearsed by other noble Lords, I cannot imagine that many will fall into this category, but presumably my noble friend will be able to give us a forecast of the number of occasions on which the Government expect an ENS to be required. Like my noble friend Lord Dodds, I would be interested to know whether there will be an additional cost, or at least an additional time factor, in delivering these.

While it is welcome that a two-hour limit is imposed on the submission of an ENS applying to goods arriving in Great Britain by sea from the Republic of Ireland, how realistic is that? Given the time available between the statutory instrument being introduced and made effective by the end of the transition period, to what extent has training been given to those to whom this statutory instrument applies?

I may be wrong, but I cannot imagine that there will be rough diamonds, endangered species or persistent organic pollutants coming from Northern Ireland to the rest of the United Kingdom—or indeed GMOs, because I understand that we are not at this stage seeking to have a flood of GMO products coming in. I hope that does not change too soon. One reason why I think the Government are introducing this instrument is to ensure that Northern Ireland does not become the back door to Great Britain for some of these non-qualifying goods from the rest of the EU. It is probably difficult to say at this stage to what extent ENS will be used, but it would be very helpful to know what forecast and assessment my noble friend and his department, the Treasury, made prior to the statutory instrument taking effect.

Will the ENS be completed digitally? Since, for the most part, we have been in a customs union and a single market with the rest of the EU for the past 30 years—the single market since 1992 and the customs union for a good deal longer—I hope that my noble friend will confirm that some training and explanation have been given to exporters and importers to whom this will apply.

Can my noble friend explain for my greater understanding of the statutory instrument, which, as he said, is very technical, whether there will be two separate regimes: one for goods coming from Great Britain to Northern Ireland and another for goods going from Northern Ireland to Great Britain? That would be very helpful to know. With those few remarks, I would be very interested to hear my noble friend’s answers.

Economic Update

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con) [V]]

My noble friend raises important points. As I mentioned earlier, we are a few days into an enormous change in how trade operates across GB and the EU, and across GB and NI, but I reiterate the Government’s absolute commitment to keep the friction between GB and NI to an absolute minimum. We are doing everything we can to do that. I ask my noble friend to bear with us, because there will be a learning process over the next few weeks.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the night-time economy contributes, in its heyday, over £66 billion per annum in revenue and employs 8% of the workforce—a disproportionate number of whom are young people, helping motivate them and often launching them on a career. Will my noble friend look carefully at what specific long-term help can be given to all businesses in the night-time economy, not just bars, nightclubs, restaurants and street vendors but also those that advise them—marketing companies, record labels, agents, managers, PR companies, taxicabs and newsagents—to enable those which are not facing ruin in the meantime to bounce back sustainably?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con) [V]]

The noble Baroness raises a very important point. I share her concern for this sector because, as she quite rightly says, it is not just about bars and clubs but our cultural heartland—theatres and everything that goes with it. I reassure her that this is very much on the Government’s mind and will be addressed as we come out of this crisis.

EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Friday 8th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I also warmly welcome my noble friend Lord Wharton and congratulate him on his maiden speech.

This is definitely an agreement towards a relationship on which we can build, so that is very positive. However, I urge my noble friend the Minister to turn to some urgent matters in the first few days of the agreement being in place. In particular, while I welcome that the agreement has led to no tariffs or quotas, I am sure that he will share my concern on the rules of origin provisions and country of origin rules. He was silent on this point but already it is having grave repercussions for our food and drink industry, which is the largest manufacturing industry in the country. Will he therefore urgently address the issue so that products such as pies, sausages and other processed meats can be exported fresh rather than just frozen, which is the position from 1 January?

I realise that the bottleneck at Dover has been eased at the moment as we are currently running at only about 15% of its 2019 capacity, but will my noble friend look favourably on increasing the freight capacity on east coast ports? I think in particular of the capacity that has been released with the sad loss of the Hull to Zeebrugge ferry service, but also increased capacity through other east coast ports, to ensure that northern businesses such as Potter of Melmerby and Reed Boardall of Roecliffe do not have to trundle down to Dover to access the EU market.

There is a severe shortage of vets, which has been exacerbated by the fact that we now require vets in connection with the urgent release of export health certificates. Perhaps my noble friend can address that, as well as the loss of access to the European Food Safety Authority and what will replace it.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, we need to have a short break to allow for the digital switchover of noble Lords taking part remotely.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate both negotiating teams on concluding the agreement before us today in this Bill, and I welcome the fact that there is a deal allowing the United Kingdom to transit out of the European Union in an orderly fashion. However, I would like to pause and consider the plight of the great British banger, which seems to have fallen foul of the rules of origin—as indeed has milling flour. I urge the Minister to use the next three months before the Bill finally comes into full effect on 28 April 2021 to ensure that the British sausage will again be allowed to be exported to Northern Ireland and the European Union. This is one of the unintended consequences of the Bill being drawn up at short notice, which brings many benefits but has a number of unintended consequences as well.

I will take this opportunity to pursue parts of the Bill with my noble friend, and I hope that he will respond in his summing up. It was mentioned earlier that financial provision 8 allows for either party, by written notification through diplomatic channels, to terminate the agreement. So the whole agreement could be terminated unilaterally by one or other party. Is that really something that the Government intended? Obviously, they have agreed to it, but is it right that it should be terminated simply by notification, even through diplomatic channels?

Pursuing the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, on the architecture that is set out in this Bill, what will be the role of both Houses of Parliament in those institutions which form the architecture set up by the agreement? I hope that we will play a full role in that because, as my noble friend Lord Cormack and others have said, we want to repair some of the damage caused to relations with the European Union and individual member states.

There will be a review of the agreement every five years. What form will that review take? As regards the implementation of judicial agreements, do the Government have a date in mind for the adoption of the Lugano Convention, which would enable recognition and enforcement of civil and commercial judgments to ensure that the rule of law is maintained through the agreement and the Bill before us today?

Finally, on Erasmus, I believe it was the lack of knowledge of foreign languages by parliamentarians, officials and businesses, that has led us to the state we are in today. If so, I do not believe that abandoning the Erasmus programme is the answer.

Taxation (Post-transition Period) Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I give a very warm welcome to my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom and congratulate him on his first-class maiden speech. How lucky we are to benefit from his broad experience in so many different fields. He is very welcome indeed. I also congratulate my noble friend the Minister on bringing forward the Bill, albeit at this late stage, but without the “notwithstanding” clauses.

I want to press my noble friend the Minister on certain issues that are not on, or not immediately apparent and clear on, the face of the Bill. As he will be aware, we on the EU Environment Sub-Committee were very fortunate this morning to take evidence from those concerned with the agri-food sector and goods moving into Northern Ireland from continental Europe from 1 January. Is he minded to acquiesce to their request for a period of grace for a minimum of two months, but ideally of between two and six months, which others referred to as a period of adjustment, given the months of uncertainty and continuing lack of clarity, even with the publication and debate of the Bill today? Can the Government clarify the status of the UK global tariff regime? It was published in May, but we heard from a witness today that there is still a lack of customs data, trade statistics and tariff availability for imports.

Also, as others have mentioned, the trusted trader scheme will play a vital role, particularly in Northern Ireland, in preparing the flow of goods and unfettered access to which the Government are committed, which I applaud. With a budget of £2 million to fund the scheme, can my noble friend confirm that all 800 staff have been hired and trained and are ready to give the advice that will be required? Customs clearance will be required for all goods entering Northern Ireland from England, Scotland and Wales. What is the state of preparedness within HMRC regarding the additional 220,000 forms? Have all the necessary customs agents been appointed and trained, and are they in place and ready to go?

Regarding the abolition of tax-free shopping for overseas visitors, what is the up-to-date assessment of the loss of this trade for major stores not just in London but across the United Kingdom—in Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh? What will the damage be? Does my noble friend share my concern that this will be removed from the UK market and that all the trade from which we have benefited over so many years will go to Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt, our near neighbours?

I end with specific requests flowing from the Bill. The first, as I set out at the beginning, is for a period of grace of between two and six months, to ensure that those asking to abide by the rules, which are not yet clear, will have the time to make the rules familiar with them, so that they can apply them from perhaps 1 April or 1 June. Also, can my noble friend confirm the status of the UK global tariff regime for imports? On the question of equivalence on phytosanitary measures, can he look at whether it should be veterinary surgeons alone who issue these environmental health certificates that will be required, or whether others might be more suitable, given the current shortage of vets, to enable these certificates to be issued in time?

Finally, can my noble friend give us a programme of when the implementing instruments will be in place so that we have a position at least to familiarise ourselves with them? I welcome the Bill and wish it a fair passage through Parliament.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Desai, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, have withdrawn, so I call the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle.

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government, as I said at the outset, have asked for nothing more than an agreement similar to the Canada free trade agreement and other agreements that the EU has struck with other nations. It is for the noble Lord to decide, if the EU wishes to refuse that request, whether that is reasonable or unreasonable.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I urge my noble friend and the Prime Minister to push the boat out, so to speak, to get an agreement. If the European Court of Justice is not to be the dispute resolution mechanism for the Northern Ireland protocol, what resolution mechanism does he have in mind?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, on the details of the mechanism proposed under the protocol, as well as the protocol statement that has been made, my noble friend will find that a number of draft decisions are also being laid before Parliament setting out in greater detail the arrangements agreed, which include provision for the settlement of disputes.