Rural Economy
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate on calling this debate and for all his work on rural affairs. I am delighted to sit with him on the rural interest group of the Church of England Synod. I pay tribute to the role of the Church in rural areas in times of crisis, as I witnessed during the foot and mouth outbreak in the early 2000s. I declare my interests: I work with the rural doctors—my father and brother were dispensing doctors—of the Dispensing Doctors’ Association. I am also a patron of Upper Teesdale Agricultural Support Services, honorary president of the Huby and Sutton agricultural show and vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities, which have a role to play in preventing flooding in low lying areas.
As a proud Yorkshire lass, I would say that there is lots to celebrate in the rural economy, not least farming, countryside and food—and the best show in town, the Great Yorkshire Show. There is also a role for auction marts, which set the price and have a presence in market towns. They have a role in the rural economy and the community, playing a specific social function. Farmers are fiercely proud and independent, often visiting the auction mart well into their retirement as well as during their active farming lives. When the auction marts closed during the foot and mouth outbreak, there was really nowhere for the farmers to gather and chat. Country shows show the best local farm produce and educate the next generation in the joys of the countryside and farming. The Great Yorkshire Show showed children livestock first hand, and I am delighted to say that I have attended since I was a schoolgirl in Harrogate.
What are the current barriers to the growth of the rural economy? As others have said, the whole rural economy has been impacted by the employers’ national insurance contribution increase—doctor’s surgeries, care homes, hospices and veterinary practices specifically, and every walk of life. The inheritance tax proposals and the revision of agricultural property relief, as well as the removal of capital grants, will severely impact on the farming community. There is also a shortage of farm workers as a result of a shrinking rural population, poor local transport and the cost of housing. All this could be remedied in part by increasing the number of seasonal workers on farms and the length of time they spend on the farms. Rural broadband and mobile phone coverage is still below par, making farm and rural businesses less efficient and competitive. There is less access to banking services, with bank branches and post offices having closed.
The Government should encourage productive farming. We should not build solar farms on grade 2 or grade 3 productive land, as in the test cases currently in Old Malton and east Yorkshire. Tenant farmers have a particular contribution to make, especially in the uplands. Some 48% of farms in North Yorkshire are tenanted, yet their future is bleak and uncertain, given the Government’s Budget proposals.
I pay tribute to the charities supporting the farming community in rural areas; their role is valuable and, sadly, increasing. I am mindful of the mental ill-health and state of anxiety among farmers, which is now sadly also affecting their children. I am also mindful of the levels of farm vehicle theft and other rural crimes, the impact of marital breakdowns, and the fact that farmers are reluctant to visit their doctor and often neglect their own health.
Others have mentioned tourism, hospitality and leisure in the rural economy, and I support their impact. I am delighted to be the honorary president of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. I hope all noble Peers will take the opportunity to visit it during one of the forthcoming recesses.
The UK is on average only 60% self-sufficient in food, yet only 16% in fruit and vegetables. The power of the supermarkets is great; that of growers and the supply chain is weak. The Groceries Code Adjudicator’s role needs to be addressed to ensure that it can undertake reports on its own initiative and not identify those who seek to make a complaint.
What is the way forward? All government policies should be assessed and rural-proofed. That used to happen in the past; it should happen in the future. We should recognise that farmers are key to growing the rural economy, but they need help in meeting the current challenges, whether climate change, flooding on farmland or the increases in oil prices and in the cost of fertilisers and pesticides. Environmental land management schemes are rolling out at a slower pace than the reduction in basic farm payments, leaving farmers with a huge gap in their income.
I beg the Minister not to play Scrooge, as in A Christmas Carol, but to be as generous as the Government can possibly be to farmers. Farmers face an uncertain future. If you want something done, ask a farmer, but they are asking whether we want them to produce food for us anymore. The future of our food system, our rural communities and even our environment is in question. Their future—for the farmers and for growth of the rural economy—is in the Government’s hands. We look to the Minister to provide answers today.
Domestic Animals: Welfare
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(1 week, 3 days ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
The noble Baroness makes a very good point. We are aware that there are some digital challenges within the department, and we are looking at that very carefully.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that not enough is being done about puppy smuggling? How many prosecutions for puppy smuggling and for boiler-house productions have there been following the Animal Welfare Act? Boiler-house puppies could be relieved if the mother—the bitch—was present at the sale of the puppies. Will the Government enforce that?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
The noble Baroness makes a good point. On puppy smuggling, we have made a clear commitment to end puppy farming. We are also supporting a Private Member’s Bill in the other place on puppy smuggling, because we are determined to do our best to stop these abhorrent practices.
Avian Flu: Turkeys in Norfolk
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
First, the compensation scheme that we are looking at is the same as previously, in that poultry owners will be compensated for the value of the birds if they were healthy at the time of the cull. We have no plans to change that. Secondly, I am extremely aware of the complications around insurance. When we had the previous outbreak, I met a number of poultry owners who were having real problems with insurance. We are very concerned about this, and we will work with insurance companies to monitor the situation.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I congratulate the Government on their swift response to this outbreak. Will the noble Baroness agree with me about the importance of monitoring potential outbreaks from our neighbouring countries in the European Union? Where are we on a potential sanitary and phytosanitary agreement with EU countries, which is so important in this regard?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
Clearly, it is really important that we work closely with our European neighbours. The incidences of avian flu are currently not what we have seen in previous years, but we must not be complacent. Working with our European neighbours to monitor outbreaks is absolutely critical, because wild birds fly very long distances so this is an international problem. Regarding the SPS agreements, all I can say is that we are making progress and continuing discussions with the EU.
Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging and Packaging Waste) Regulations 2024
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(4 weeks ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)
My Lords, these regulations were laid in draft before the House on 24 October 2024. They introduce extended producer responsibility for packaging, which I will refer to as pEPR, in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.
PEPR is one of the three core pillars of the Government’s ambitious packaging reforms, alongside the forthcoming deposit return scheme and the simpler recycling programme in England. These will overhaul the packaging waste system, introducing the biggest change to policy in a generation. Collectively, the packaging reforms are estimated to deliver carbon savings of more than 46 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent by 2035, valued at more than £10 billion in carbon benefits.
The new system established under these regulations will modernise the producer responsibility system for packaging in the United Kingdom by shifting the costs of managing discarded household packaging from taxpayers to those businesses that supply packaging and by applying the “polluter pays” principle. These regulations also implement international best practice, exemplified by the mature systems of our European neighbours, including Belgium and Germany, where comprehensive EPR schemes have been in place for some time.
I am sure that Members will note that this SI was drawn to the special attention of the House of Lords by the SLSC. I assure Members that this was on the grounds of it being politically or legally important and it giving rise to issues of public policy that are likely to be of interest to the House.
I turn to the benefits of the scheme. The revenue raised by this new system will generate more than £1 billion annually to support local authority collection, recycling and waste disposal services. This will benefit every household in the UK and stimulate much-needed investment in our recycling infrastructure. This will make a substantial contribution to the benefits of the packaging reforms, which together are estimated to support 21,000 jobs in our nations and regions, and will help to stimulate more than £10 billion of investment in recycling capability over the next decade. Revenue from pEPR will create a much-needed injection of resources into local authorities to improve the household kerbside collection system across the UK. In England, this revenue will fund the simpler recycling reforms that will enable consistent collection of all dry packaging materials, ending the postcode lottery for recycling.
Taken together, these reforms will support this mission-driven Government’s ambition to kick-start economic growth and create the foundations required to transition to a circular economy for packaging in the UK, ensuring that resources are kept in use for longer. It is a critical first step in meeting the commitment in our manifesto to transition to a resource-resilient, productive, circular economy that delivers long-term, sustainable growth.
I will now look at the new obligations that the legislation will bring in. First, these regulations introduce an obligation on businesses that supply household packaging, referred to as “producers”, to pay the costs incurred by local authorities in managing that packaging once it has been discarded. Producers will also be obligated for the cost of providing public information about the correct disposal of packaging. Producers will start incurring fees from April 2025, and invoices will be issued from October 2025 for the 2025-26 scheme year.
Additionally, from the second year of the scheme, producer fees will be adjusted to incentivise producers to make more sustainable decisions at the production/design stage, including decisions that make it easier for products to be reused or recycled at the end of life. This will mean that a producer who uses packaging that is not environmentally sustainable, such as packaging that is not widely recycled, will incur higher fees. Conversely, those using packaging that is sustainable and readily recyclable will incur lower fees.
It is right that businesses bear the costs of managing the packaging that they place on the market, but we must also protect the small businesses that are the life and soul of our high streets and the backbone of our economy. That is why only businesses with a turnover of more than £2 million and which supply more than 50 tonnes of packaging per year will have to pay disposal fees under this new system.
To administer this system, the regulations require the appointment of a scheme administrator jointly by the four nations. This body will be responsible for the implementation of pEPR. This will include the setting of producer fees and the apportionment and payment of those fees to local authorities in order to fund their waste management services. This scheme administrator will initially be hosted within Defra.
I turn to the detail of the obligations that have been retained from the current producer responsibility system. This instrument revokes and replaces the Packaging Waste (Data Reporting) (England) Regulations 2023, along with the equivalent regulations in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. The requirement for packaging producers to collect and report data on the amount and type of packaging that they supply is carried over from these regulations, as amended. This data is used to calculate producers’ recycling and fee obligations.
This instrument also revokes and replaces the Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging Waste) Regulations 2007 and the equivalent regulations in Northern Ireland. As was the case under these regulations, this instrument places obligations on producers to ensure that a proportion of the amount of packaging that they supply is recycled; it also requires them to provide evidence of this to the regulator. These requirements apply to all packaging, not just packaging likely to be disposed of in local authority household collections. To meet this obligation, producers must demonstrate compliance by obtaining packaging recovery notes and packaging export recovery notes from recycling facilities or those who export packaging waste for recycling.
I turn to compliance and enforcement. This instrument provides the four national regulators with enforcement powers and a duty to monitor compliance. It contains strong enforcement measures, including criminal offences and powers for regulators to impose civil sanctions in cases of non-compliance. As is currently the case, the monitoring and enforcement activity for the producer responsibility regime will be funded by the associated charges in these regulations, such as those for registration and accreditation. These charges operate on a cost-recovery basis; as such, they have been increased from the 2007 regulations to reflect the new duties placed on the regulators and the increased level of monitoring and audit activities.
In conclusion, there is no such place as “away”. It is therefore critical that we create the foundations required to transition to a circular economy for packaging, in order to ensure that resources are kept in use for longer and to secure vital carbon savings. I beg to move.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on and thank her for bringing forward these regulations, which I wholeheartedly support; I also thank her for her clear exposition of what they contain. I have a couple of questions.
The Minister set out the responsibilities, particularly around informing households of what they are required to do. I understand that a lot of the waste that is contaminated cannot be effectively disposed of and recycled. Does the Minister know what percentage of household waste that constitutes, including whether it has gone up or down in, say, the last five or 10 years?
I am grateful to the Wildlife and Countryside Link and the Green Alliance for the joint briefing that they have produced for our use. I am also grateful to the Minister for drawing attention to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report, which gave a very helpful background.
My understanding is that the regulations relate only to recycling. I wonder why the department has focused on recycling and not reuse. I have asked on a number of occasions both the Minister and her noble friend the Minister for Energy, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, what the Government’s policy on energy from waste is. It is a good way of using household waste that has been contaminated and cannot be reused. It also prevents it going to landfill, which I understand is where most of the waste that is not recycled will go. So it not only reduces household waste and disposes of it in an energy-efficient way; it also provides an energy stream that other countries in Europe use to great effect. My late aunt and uncle in Denmark had their household heating provided by energy from waste at a reduced rate, so there was a community interest in taking it up. I have not heard anything from the Government—either this department or the department for energy—as to their views on energy from waste.
The Minister referred to kerbside collections, the cost of which is obviously quite high. I have now lost the page but one of the figures relates to the substantial cost of kerbside collections. Is it the idea that household collections will be performed by local councils, which will be reimbursed under the regulations by the funds raised? I think that the Minister alluded to this; that would seem very sensible indeed.
With those few remarks and questions, I commend the regulations, but I am interested to know how much will go to landfill; why the Government have not looked at reuse; what the percentages are for contaminated materials that cannot be recycled; and what the Government’s views are on any residual household waste going to energy from waste plants.
Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her extensive introduction to this long-awaited SI. This is a complex issue; it has taken Defra and the Government since 2019 to bring it to this stage. I congratulate both of them on managing to get the devolved Administrations to sign up to more or less the same scheme, which should make things easier. I have received briefings from various producers and had face-to-face meetings for several years, and I was beginning to think that we would never get here. I am grateful to those who provided me this week with briefing material, as well as to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its report.
The opening section of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to implementing the “polluter pays” principle. That is to be welcomed. This is an opportunity to use the extensive powers in the Environment Act 2021 in order to implement the best environmental outcomes and to support the efficacy of reuseable packaging systems.
This SI obliges producers to provide evidence of the type of their recycling to the regulator. However, there is no information on how this is to happen, except that those manufacturers with a turnover of more than £2 million and which produce more than 50 tonnes of packaging will do this once a year. These producers will pay the fees to local authorities. Those with a smaller turnover of more than £1 million will have to report their recycling type but will not have to pay fees. There is nothing about how the information is to be collected by the manufacturer and what the format is for it to be reported.
I regret to say that this is something of a “get out of jail free” card. Defra and the Government are placing a great deal of trust in those who will pay the fee to provide the evidence of their recycling. The regulations include the principle, at Regulation 62(2)(b), that producers can offset fees for packaging that they market, as well as where they collect and recycle that packaging through self-funded initiatives.
There is a risk that producers could claim they have collected and recycled packaging when this is not the case. Research shows that 70% of soft plastic packaging waste collected by supermarkets for recycling was, in fact, incinerated. Can the Minister say why is there no standardisation of how evidence of recycling is to be provided?
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I had one quick question about the policy on energy from waste. Obviously, if the Minister needs to write to me on it, I would be very grateful. Also, the regulations clearly state that aims should be achieved around reduction and reuse, but at the moment, the regulations address recycling only. Any thoughts on that in writing would be very helpful.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
The fact that there are incentives for producers to reuse is part of the purpose. It is about not just about recycling, but about changing behaviour to encourage producers to have packaging that can be reused. I hope that is the answer to that. I will write to the noble Baroness on energy from waste.
Storm Bert: National Preparedness
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(4 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the state of national preparedness in advance of Storm Bert and the adequacy of the flood warnings prior to the storm reaching the United Kingdom.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
In begging leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, I refer to my interests as co-chairman of the All-Party Water Group and as honorary vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)
I am very impressed. Protecting communities from flooding is a priority for this Government. The Government continuously assess preparedness for flooding at local and national levels in England. The Met Office, Environment Agency and Flood Forecasting Centre provide multiple flood forecasting and warning services, work with local resilience forums and partners to inform actions, and will consider the effectiveness of the flood response.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I am grateful for that response. Our hearts go out to those who lost their lives in the recent floods. Should we be doing more maintenance and dredging between floods? Also, does the Minister share my concern that there should be a one-stop shop for flood warnings? We are to go to the Environment Agency for all flood warnings apart from surface water, for which we have to go to local councils. Obviously, in a time of deep distress, such as a forthcoming flood, it would be much better if there was just one place to go for both preparedness and the issuing of sandbags and such.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
On the dredging question, the Environment Agency undertakes dredging to manage flood risk where it is technically effective, does not significantly increase flood risk for others down stream and is environmentally acceptable. Some locations will benefit from this and others will not, so it is looked at case by case. On flood warnings, my feeling is that most of the time they work very well. I am signed up for them: we get them by email and text, and we get a phone call. I urge anyone who has not signed up for flood warnings and who lives in a flood area to do so, because they are effective. Regarding having a single place, that is something I can take back to the department to review.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
As I am sure the noble Lord is aware, we recently announced £60 million to be distributed through the farming recovery fund for the previous floods. It is very important that we support farmers. It is a very difficult time when your land is flooded; it can take a long time to recover and be very expensive. We are currently looking at this.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
On that point, will the Minister look carefully at the criteria that are set? Farmland that is more than a mile from a river has been flooded, and yet the owners are told that they are not eligible for this funding. It all comes back to surface water and building on flood plains. Will the Minister look closely at that criterion?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
At the moment we are reviewing the whole criteria around flood funding, because it is not fit for purpose and certain areas that require funding are not necessarily eligible to get it. We are looking at it in the whole.
Storm Bert
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
As I said, the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have been in touch with the Welsh Government. We want to offer what support we can. As to the extent to which that looks at new funding or whether or not there is other funding, that will be part of ongoing discussions around the coal tips. The Coal Authority, as I am sure the noble Baroness is aware, has responsibility for them. I worked with the Coal Authority in the past when I was a Member of Parliament. I always found it very open, sensible and good to work with. I would hope that both the Welsh Government and our Government will continue to work with the Coal Authority to ensure the safety of these different coal tips.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, the whole House is united around the concept of nature-based solutions. I am determined to invite the Minister to visit Slowing the Flow at Pickering in North Yorkshire, which is commendable for not having flooded downstream since it was built. For these schemes to be effective, and to roll them out across the country, to prevent floods of the scale we have seen all this week, by planting trees and creating dams upstream, will the Minister look favourably on rolling out more private funds, such as from water companies—United Utilities in her area, Yorkshire Water in my area—but also funding farmers and others to pay for these nature- based solutions?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
Obviously, the noble Baroness is aware that we discussed this at some length during the Water (Special Measures) Bill. It is important that water authorities and water companies look at how they can best use nature-based solutions. It is an important way to prevent flooding and pollution. I am sure that as we continue to work with water companies, going through the commission, the review and so on, we can make sure that these are a central part of how they design their drainage structures going forward. I think I am going to have to cave in and say I would love to come to Pickering.
Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL]
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering ExcerptsTuesday 26th November 2024
(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL] 2024-26 View all Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL] 2024-26 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: HL Bill 45-I(a) Amendment for Report (Supplementary to the Marshalled List) - (19 Nov 2024)
Lord Roborough (Con)
My Lords, the core objectives of the Bill were, of course, supported by all sides of your Lordships’ House. The water and sewerage industry has betrayed consumers, and the regulators have consistently failed to bring these companies to book for many years. It is not so much to ask that we should all be able to enjoy clean and healthy rivers, lakes and beaches. On our Benches, we proposed tough action on the companies and executives responsible, and we are pleased that the Bill now places greater responsibility on the industry to clean itself up, while granting greater powers to regulators to enforce those rules.
This Bill is only a short-term move to impose special measures on the industry while we await the results of the commission, which will report next year. Special measures are, by definition, temporary, and the Government must bring forward the next stage of reform urgently. We look forward to reading and debating those reports and engaging fully with the Government to ensure that the right medium to longer-term reforms are put in place to ensure that all stakeholders’ interests are properly recognised and balanced.
I am most grateful to the Minister for listening to the concerns of the House in constructive engagements in this Chamber and in private meetings with her and her excellent officials. Those engagements were always courteous and helpful in airing the issues around each topic of discussion or debate. The best traditions of the House may be frequently mentioned, but this is a very good example, and, in this case, the Bill is much improved as a result.
The House owes thanks to the Minister for the excellent amendments that the Government brought forward. In particular, the pollution incident reporting plans now have teeth and will be a valuable tool in pushing the industry to do better. I also highlight amendments that place much more weight on using nature-based solutions as an alternative to more traditional investment in infrastructure. These amendments will have a measurable impact on nature recovery efforts in this country.
Although this House amended the Bill to improve accountability on debt levels and financial structuring, thanks in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, as well as on the accountability of the Government on the rules being set, it was a little disappointing that the Government would not accept our amendments to protect the consumer in the event of an SAO, nor to enable the Secretary of State to limit water companies’ debt levels when necessary.
Finally, I thank all noble Lords from all Benches of this House who engaged in debates on the Bill and with whom I had many constructive discussions.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I add my congratulations to the Minister on securing her first Bill in this new Parliament, and through her I pass on my thanks to the Bill team for their solicitations throughout the procedure. I would like to tease her on one item if I may. We did not manage to carry the amendment on mandatory requirements for sustainable drains, nor the end to the automatic right to connect, but will she consider voluntarily bringing forward a report in six months’ time on where we are in introducing mandatory requirements for sustainable drains for major new developments?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
I am very happy to take that back to the department and to discuss whether that is possible.
Solar Farms and Food Production
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
As the noble Baroness rightly points out, solar generation can be co-located with farmland. Many projects, for example, are designed so that livestock grazing can continue, and on the point she made on arable, there is some evidence that it can be better for growing and for nature if there is solar generation on the field.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
Is the noble Baroness following closely the test case of the tenant farms in Old Malton, bearing in mind that 48% of all farms in North Yorkshire are tenanted? They are about to be thrown off the land in favour of a solar farm, exactly as my noble friend has described. Will she watch this case very carefully and ensure that no land is taken out of productive farm use when solar panels could go on warehouse and other roofs, which are much more appropriate than farmland?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
Regarding tenant farming, the noble Baroness I am sure will be aware that we have announced that we are appointing the first ever commissioner for tenant farming. Clearly, part of their role will be ensuring that we have a fair, balanced, collaborative relationship between tenants and landowners. Part of that relationship will be to ensure that we do not have the kinds of scenarios that she refers to—so, absolutely, we will keep a close watching eye.
Water Bills
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
My noble friend points out some of the disgraceful behaviour we have seen from water companies in recent years. We expect companies to invest their own money going forward. However, we recognise that new investment means that customer bills are likely to rise. It is Ofwat’s responsibility to independently scrutinise water company plans, ensuring that the prices companies charge their customers are fair and proportionate. Vital infrastructure investment funding is ring-fenced and can be spent only on upgrades benefiting customers and the environment. Ofwat must ensure that when money for investment is not spent, companies refund customers, with money never allowed to be diverted for bonuses, dividends or salary increases.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, can the Minister assure me on the recommendation in the Frontier Economics report of 2021, commissioned by Ofwat, to stop developers passing on the cost of incremental upgrades and treatment works for major new developments? The fact that the recommendation has not been introduced is bloating customer bills, which is unacceptable. Will she ensure that the recommendation by Ofwat is introduced to reduce customer bills and make developers pay for connections for major new developments and the upgrade of treatment works?
Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL]
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering ExcerptsWednesday 20th November 2024
(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL] 2024-26 View all Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL] 2024-26 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: HL Bill 45-I(a) Amendment for Report (Supplementary to the Marshalled List) - (19 Nov 2024)
“(iia) meeting relevant standards issued under the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, in particular the standards in Schedule 3 (sustainable drainage),”
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful to have the opportunity to return to these amendments and to thank the Minister and the Bill team, and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, for the very useful, albeit inconclusive, meeting that we had,
Amendment 3 is really a prelude to setting out the basis of Amendment 43, on which, depending on the response I get from the Minister, I may be tempted seriously to test the opinion of the House. Amendment 3 sets out that the relevant standards in the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, particularly as set out in Schedule 3, “Sustainable Drainage”, be part of this Bill. In her summing up when this was debated in Committee, she thought that these standards were contained not in the 2010 Act but in a different Act. I beg to disagree. I think she has tabled an amendment, which we will come to later, asking for Ofwat to have regard to climate change. If it is going to have regard to that, I firmly believe that it should have regard to other environmental standards.
The reason I would like to return to Schedule 3 and the important question of sustainable drains is that the Bill, in its current form, is seriously flawed in this one respect. While rightfully holding companies to account on aspects of finance and other responsibilities, it fails to address the fundamental issue that leads to flooding from new developments. If the Bill remains drafted, it will allow rainwater to continue entering public sewers and mix with sewage at times of excessive flooding. This sewage and rainwater will enter existing developments, causing a public health hazard with raw sewage coming into people’s homes. I believe— I know others across your Lordships’ House agree—that it is totally unacceptable to continue to have rainwater mixing with sewage in the public sewers in this way.
There is general contentment that the Government seem to have met their manifesto commitment in this Bill, but sadly they are not focusing—they are reneging —on their responsibilities as regards parts of wastewater. Without my Amendments 3 and 43, the Bill remains defective. Amendment 43 is totally benign. It simply asks what progress there will have been in six months’ time towards implementing Schedule 3 to the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, calling for an end to the automatic right to connect, and adapting sustainable drains to be built as a mandatory requirement for all new developments. In Committee, I was delighted that my noble friend Lord Blencathra from the Front Bench supported this amendment and asked the Minister to consider bringing tougher flood mitigation duties forward for water companies on Report.
These amendments, and Amendment 43 in particular, provide vital flood mitigation measures that received cross-party support during the passage of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010. I am grateful to my noble friend from the Front Bench for lending his support to this amendment yesterday, and I request that the House give it fair wind. As I say, it is not asking for implementation, which would not be in keeping with this Bill, and I know the Minister will respond to this little debate by saying that the Government are looking at a future piece of legislation that will flow from the commission, which I think all noble Lords are grateful that they are setting up.
I would like to press the Minister on one point that she raised in her response to the debate that we had on these amendments in Committee. She said:
“The issue we have is that it also impacts directly on development and developers, which is why the Government are currently working with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to assess how best to implement their ambitions on sustainable drainage, while also being mindful of the cumulative impact of the new regulatory burdens on the development sector. At this stage, I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of that process”.—[Official Report, 28/10/24; col. 1009.]
When the Minister and her colleagues sat on this side of the House, she was in favour of Schedule 3 and the immediate implementation of mandatory sustainable drains on all major new developments. I ask her in the most positive spirit: what has changed? Why now are they reneging on their duty, as a new Government with a big majority, to allow households to be free from the fear of having rainwater mixing with raw sewage and entering combined sewers with the potential of coming into their homes? I am not alone in calling for this to come into effect; both the Climate Change Committee and the National Infrastructure Commission have recommended that significant progress be made in addressing surface water flood risk, with the latter recommending that Schedule 3 be implemented.
Managing water both around and from new developments is central to reducing flood risk and the amount of water entering sewers. The Bill is also flawed in not addressing the issue of surface water run-off from highways, which we also discussed in that meeting, and I agree with the Minister and her colleague the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, that this should take place in the planning Bill coming forward. But this Bill is the right place in which to ask the Minister to report in six months’ time on what progress has been made as a consequence of the Bill towards implementing that vital measure of Schedule 3, which is an integral part of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010.
I look forward to hearing a debate from other noble Lords, but I will listen very carefully to what the Minister says, particularly what she meant by “cumulative impact”. I may well test the opinion of the House.
Baroness Browning (Con)
My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering. The Minister will be aware that, both at Second Reading and in Committee, I raised matters of capacity where sewage and rainwater mix—run-off from roofs, roads or wherever. In Committee, I quoted some case law that shows that the capacity of the sewers to cope with both should already be taken into consideration. I hope that, when she responds, she will assure us that she has asked for that case law to be investigated, because it may well be helpful in this case.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, for continuing to raise this important issue, and for tabling her Amendments 3 and 43, which speak to the implementation of Schedule 3. I thank her for her passion and persistence on this matter—she has never let it drop, which is important because this stalled 14 years ago. I also thank her for taking the time to meet me and my noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage, the Minister in MHCLG, to discuss this matter in some detail and to look at how we can improve delivery.
On Amendment 3, the standards introduced under Schedule 3 would be designed specifically for relevant approval bodies to use when determining applications for sustainable drainage. As I am sure the noble Baroness is aware, such applications would be submitted mainly by developers, not water companies—obviously, for SUDS, that is who implements the developments. Because of that, the Government do not consider Schedule 3 standards to be appropriate to use when we are establishing the rules on remuneration of pay prohibitions. That is why we cannot accept the noble Baroness’s amendment.
Amendment 43 is the important, indeed critical amendment in this group. As I have previously said, the Government are strongly committed to requiring standardised SUDS in new developments. We are not looking to renege or backtrack in any way. We are committed to this; it is about the most effective method of delivery.
There are specific outcomes that the Government want to achieve. We want to see an increase in quantity, with more SUDS being built, but we need to see better design qualities that do what we want them to do. We need effective adoption and maintenance, to ensure the new SUDS being built are long-term and keep their quality for the long-term. We need an increase in sustainable drainage in more developments. We need to ensure that, when we are improving the design, they are designed to cope with our changing climate; that is critical, as we are seeing more and more water, often followed by drought, which compounds a lot of the problems. We need to make sure that anything we bring in delivers wider water infrastructure benefits by reducing the levels of rainwater entering sewers, which noble Baronesses have mentioned, and helps improve water quality, while enabling economic growth and delivering the biodiversity and amenity benefits that we need.
Surface water run-off was mentioned by a number of noble Lords. It is important that we look at how we tackle all aspects of drainage and surface water. The noble Baroness, Lady Browning, mentioned her house in Devon. We live in a very old stone-built house in Cumbria. Our house has also flooded in the past. There is much that we need to work on in this area. I am also very aware that there are occasions when new build, if not done properly, can have a knock-on effect on houses that have never flooded before. There is a big picture question in the planning system around how we approach this and tackle it most effectively.
While I am on the subject of surface water, the noble Earl asked about the amendments coming up on nature-based solutions. That is absolutely part of the package of how we tackle this going forward. He asked whether all the areas that we are looking at will continue to be input into the review. Anything we have discussed here that is still outstanding or of concern will absolutely be looked at and will be within the scope of the review going forward.
Having said all of this—the noble Baroness knows this because we discussed it with the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage—we believe that our ambition for SUDS delivery can be achieved in different ways. It can be achieved through improving the current planning-led approach, and using powers through that route, or by commencing Schedule 3 to the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, as the noble Baroness requested. If we are going to get this to work in the most effective way possible, and get the kinds of results that we need, we need to work hand-in-glove with the MHCLG. Ultimately, this is about development and developers, and getting them to make the right kind of connections and drainage decisions in new developments.
As we discussed, we are looking at planning reforms that can deliver improved sustainable drainage. The National Planning Policy Framework is out for consultation at the moment, until the end of the year. We have asked specific questions around SUDS, from Defra, in that consultation. If noble Lords are interested in inputting to that, it is currently open for consultation.
The MHCLG is looking at the best approach to this, through the NPPF consultation, and there is going to be planning and infrastructure legislation coming up. That is why we cannot accept the amendment at the moment. There are a number of delivery paths. We want to deliver this and we want to deliver it well, so we need to get the delivery path correct. That is why we are unable to accept the amendment of the noble Baroness.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
Before the Minister sits down, she failed to respond on the case study on capacity and on the cumulative impact. I am afraid that in this Bill the Minister is making water companies liable and responsible for something that the developers are responsible for by not putting SUDS in place. That is just not acceptable.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
The noble Baroness makes an extremely important point. I am more than happy to pick this up, look at it and write to her on how we propose to move forward. I am so sorry: the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked another question, but I cannot remember what it was.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
It was on cumulative impact. I quoted what the noble Baroness had said about the cumulative impact on development, and I am trying to understand why we are delaying implementing Schedule 3. What is the cumulative impact and regulatory burden that the noble Baroness is so concerned about?
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
The main issue, for me, is to look at how we get developers to implement what we need them to be implementing as far as sustainable drainage is concerned. We know that that is the right way forward and we have said that we want to increase it. When we are working with developers, we need to get them to want to do this, to be part of moving forward in the planning system and to improve drainage systems on the basis that, ultimately, it helps everybody when it comes to flooding and sewage overflows.
Clearly, there is a cumulative impact if you are developing in an area that already has a lot of development. We already know that there are issues around this. We need to get it right, so we need to consider the cumulative impact when SUDS are being designed. I have said that we want to improve design, to make sure that it is effective and works for the long term. As part of that, we also need to look at how it is managed. It is all part of that.
Developments do not just get built and then that is it, they are on their own. As I said, there are areas—certainly near where I live—where development has taken place and the cumulative impact on the other developments nearby has been negative; it has not been good. We need to ensure that we consider that, so we make sure that any systems we bring in will work properly.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
From the Minister’s last remarks, we are in fact saying the same thing. All I am asking the noble Baroness to put into this Bill is the requirement to report in six months’ time on where we are on the implementation of SUDS. So, if the Government have decided that they do not want to go down the SUDS path and want to go down the planning path, she will know that within six months. I do not intend to press Amendment 3 to a vote, but I would like to test the opinion of the House on Amendment 43, which will come later.
“(7A) Before preparing a pollution incident reduction plan, a sewerage undertaker must consult with farmers, local authorities, developers and others to identify natural flood prevention solutions to prevent pollution incidents.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment would require consideration of opportunities to retain water through natural solutions to prevent sewage mixing in combined sewers with excess rainfall, causing pollution incidents.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I am delighted to have the opportunity to open on this very interesting group of amendments, and to speak to my Amendment 26. At the risk of having a love-in with the Minister and the Government, following on from the last group, I would like to commend her and her Bill team for listening to the debate we had on similar amendments in Committee. To be honest, the reason I tabled this amendment is that we discussed this issue very briefly when we met with the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, but I did not realise that I had not seen the text of the amendments the Government were submitting. I applaud and commend her Amendment 42 and others in this group; I will leave those who are moving those amendments to speak to them.
I have just a few words to say on Amendment 26 and the Pickering pilot scheme, with which I was associated in its latter stages and the success of which I still monitor very closely. Since we have had the Pickering scheme, the dam and the planting of the trees, Yorkshire Water and the Duchy of Lancaster have put some money in, and Pickering Town Council has agreed to maintain some of the work that has been done. I take the noble Baroness’s point, made at the conclusion of the second group, about the importance of the maintenance of sustainable systems going forward. I would like to think that that was a role model.
The one defect of that scheme was that there was no private finance, apart from Yorkshire Water, and I hope that other models will look to retain that going forward. It also had money from the Environment Agency, North Yorkshire Council and Ryedale District Council, as was. As I said, it is a role model that I hope other projects will follow. It has meant that Pickering Beck has not flooded Pickering or downstream since that time. I therefore commend the amendment to the House, although I shall not be pressing it because I favour the Government’s Amendment 42 in this regard. It would allow an opportunity to retain water through natural solutions in order to prevent sewage mixing and combining with excess rainfall, causing pollution incidents.
I hope that when the Minister responds, she will highlight how, as I have set out in Amendment 26, she would expect a sewerage undertaker to consult with Parliament, local authorities, developers and others to identify such natural flood-prevention solutions. If all the parties work together going forward, this will be very important work of the water commission, looking at a catchment management system that someone has to take control of. I commend Amendment 26 and I look forward to listening to others speak to their amendments. I beg to move.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for summing up what has been an excellent debate and I thank all those who spoke. The noble Baroness, Lady Willis of Summertown, spoke not only to her own amendment but to that of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, very eloquently indeed. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb— I call her my noble friend—spoke to her amendment with familiar passion, as did my noble friend Lord Gascoigne, following the excellent work he did in Committee. The noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, speaks with great authority on these issues. I also thank my noble friend Lord Roborough for his contribution.
The mood of the House is very much to support the government amendments. I congratulate the Minister and the Bill team on the work they have done in this regard, and on being in listening mode to those around the House. I have just a couple of thoughts. I think we are all committed to storage, which has been the success of the Pickering pilot scheme. It is not far from Cumbria; I hope those who live further afield, across the border in Lancashire, might come to see the excellent work we did. There is an outstanding problem on storage, with the Reservoirs Act 1975, as to when it becomes a reservoir. The de minimis rules need to be addressed. If the water commission can look at that, it would be very welcome indeed. With the greatest will in the world, it is difficult to have storage if it is then said to be a reservoir, but the farmers, golf clubs or whatever do not have the means to maintain it.
In addition to all the funds the Minister mentioned, I urge her and her department to look at how ELMS can work with water companies—I know that United Utilities and Yorkshire Water have a good record in this regard—to come up with nature-based water solutions on farmland. That would be very welcome indeed. With those few remarks, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 26.