Deposit Scheme for Drinks Containers (England and Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 20th January 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the instrument before us. I support its contents but I want to clarify a couple of issues.

Can the Minister clarify the situation in Wales? I understand her to say that the scheme will not be offered in Wales and that the Government are no longer engaging with Wales. Do they have a commitment from Wales? I just want to clarify that because, obviously, the situation in Scotland is welcome.

I am grateful to both Coca-Cola and the Food and Drink Federation for their briefings and preparation for today; I am an officer of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Food and Drink, which is why I asked them for a briefing. They welcome the concept but, in their view, it is important that it is rolled out across the United Kingdom.

The Minister referred to other jurisdictions. I am familiar with how the scheme operates in Denmark; it has had rather perverse consequences. I sometimes feel as though I could pay for my whole Danish holiday if I went around collecting all the bottles and cans left after picnics in parks across Copenhagen and took them back. The deposit—it is called Pant—is actually set at quite a high level, so it would be helpful to know what level the Minister and the Government have in mind. Obviously, it has to be set at a level that is affordable for the consumer, ensuring that they are willing to go back and return a container to the place where it was bought.

Obviously, we must have a deposit management organisation on side. Who will be the deposit management organisation in England? Will it be the supermarket? As consumers, we are concerned about the impact this will have on small convenience stores, which will perhaps not have the facilities to take these returned bottles or whatever after use. It would be helpful to have clarification on what the costs will be and who will provide the service, because they are going to require a very large facility to accommodate the containers being returned.

Coca-Cola is keen to see the DRS—the deposit return scheme—considered as part of the extended producer responsibility. Is that something the Minister can confirm this afternoon?

The Minister concluded by saying that the monitoring and enforcement will be done by, among others, trading standards and local authorities. Are the Government convinced that they will have the resources to do this? Obviously, it is an additional responsibility over and above what they are currently doing in relation to food standards and other commitments.

Finally, if glass is to be excluded at this time, when do the Government envisage glass being included? As I understand it, glass is included in most other jurisdictions, so a big chunk of deposit returns will be excluded if glass is not included.

With those few queries, I lend my support to the scheme.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for presenting the case for the deposit return scheme. I declare my interest as a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee in your Lordships’ House. I welcome this SI and agree with my noble friend that it will make a major contribution to the reduction of littering. Numerous cans and other types of litter are strewn across the countryside and nobody appears to take responsibility, apart from local neighbourhoods that engage in their own collection schemes. I laud them for doing so.

I have some questions in relation to Northern Ireland. Normally this would be a devolved measure. I suppose that the UK Government were trying to ensure that there was a collective approach on the part of the Government and the devolved nations and regions. Perhaps my noble friend could explain the purpose of including the devolved nations and regions. Also, will the money collected from this scheme in Northern Ireland go to the Treasury, or will it go to the Department of Finance, where it can be invested in local schemes, and into the general exchequer for the delivery of lots of different types of service? I am well aware of the value of the plastic bag scheme in reducing litter but also in terms of the money. It has added to the portfolio of money available for the enhancement of services.

Secondly, I have a couple of questions in relation to Wales, which, I note, has not signed up to this scheme. How can the interoperability of the four UK schemes and the avoidance of unique identifiers in the Welsh market be assured? With Welsh proposals not yet published, how can the October 2027 introduction date be assured to avoid material switching under the EPR scheme? Will the Government ensure that the divergence of the Welsh scheme does not impact the governance of the UK, Northern Ireland and Scotland deposit return scheme and the appointment of a scheme administrator?

Those are the issues that most interest me in this SI, which I strongly support.

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[Lord Hayward (Con)]

In referring to locations in and around Westminster, the Minister said that they were close to 100 square metres and would therefore be required to operate the scheme. That is not quite my understanding from what the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, said. Could I clarify whether shops and other outlets below that figure will be required to offer those facilities?

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Could I add a rider? Will there not be a de minimis rule? I asked about the size of stores; surely there will be a de minimis rule below which stores will not be required to participate.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I have further information around size, which I will come to. The noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, referred to all the shops selling drinks containers in the Westminster area being bigger than 100 square metres. The regulations set out that supermarkets and convenience stores will be required to host a return point unless they are subject to an exemption, which would be given if they did not meet that size and had applied for that exemption—that is how it is set up—or they could opt in. So takeaways are not included, but they could opt in, as the idea is to have a bit of flexibility in the regulations. I think that is correct.

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The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked about local authorities in particular. We anticipate that the scheme will collect upwards of 90% of DRS containers placed on the market from the third year of its operation. It is likely that many of the containers that are not returned will continue to travel through local authority waste streams, such as kerbside recycling. We think that the introduction of a DRS will have a varying impact on local authorities, as there will be losses in sales and material for those who sell on recycled material but also efficiency savings from collecting and processing less material.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I asked specifically about the Minister’s point on monitoring and enforcement by local authorities. Will they have the resources to do that going forward?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

We want, as we bring the scheme in, to work closely with local authorities to be aware of any impacts on them and to ensure that they have the resources they need to manage the scheme effectively. I shall move on because I have been speaking for a long time.

Implementation timelines came up. The Government are not faffing around. Some people think that we are moving too quickly while others think that we are moving too slowly, but there is a scale to this challenge and a lot of effort from industry will be required to deliver the DRS. We believe that our timeline will provide the industry with the amount of time that it needs to implement the scheme properly. It assumes 12 months for the DMO to scale up, to make key decisions and to make the relevant appointments in its delivery partners, then 18 months of practical implementation time. That is why this timeline, which was agreed with industry and represents international best practice, has come in.

The noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, asked about costs of set-up and implementation. Following an impact assessment last year, we updated the previous figures, but it is important to consider that some costs will be compensated through the retailer handling fee, paid by the DMO. There are also benefits from increased footfall. Obviously, some costs could be passed on to consumers, but international evidence suggests that this would be relatively minor and well within the scope of the normal cost variations in the sector.

The noble Lord, Lord Hayward, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked about the impact on small businesses. There are exemptions for small retailers, as I mentioned earlier. The DMO will be required to consult with businesses of all sizes before it makes any of the key scheme decisions, such as on fees.

My noble friend Lady Ritchie asked about Northern Ireland. The Environment Act, under which this statutory instrument is established, provides powers for the Secretary of State to legislate on behalf of Wales and Northern Ireland, with their consent. On Northern Ireland, DAERA asked Defra to legislate on its behalf, which is why we are including Northern Ireland in the legislation.

I have been talking for some time. I hope that I have covered most of the questions asked by noble Lords; a lot of questions were asked. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, that Defra is determined to make this work; I thank her for her support for these regulations. I hope that I have answered most of the questions asked and trust that noble Lords accept the need for this instrument.

Water Bills

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I assure the noble Baroness that Defra is regularly in contact with the Treasury about all issues such as this, particularly about how to support people going forward. Many of the challenges farmers in particular face—my colleague is at the Oxford Farming Conference today talking to farmers—are to do with long-term security and the ability to bring in long-term investment. Water affordability is an important part of that.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister have the most recent figures for the level of bad debt in the water sector, particularly among vulnerable households? If she does not have the figures, could she release them by letter to the Library? Will she inform the House of how she intends to address the level of bad debt at this time?

Flooding

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I am hoping that we will see it very soon. The target we are working to is that we are hoping to see it some time later this month.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, would the Minister like to take this opportunity to renew her commitment to not building on functional flood plains, such as zone B, which she was kind enough to support in an amendment in my name to an earlier piece of legislation, the levelling-up Bill? I add my congratulations to all the emergency services and others and add the drainage boards and declare an interest as an honorary vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities. Will the Minister explain how many kilometres of minor watercourses she expects to be dredged and maintained during the course of this year?

I recognise the extra funds that the Government have awarded to drainage boards for this purpose. One issue is that we do not currently have a total—totex— budget. As the noble Baroness, Lady Humphries, referred to earlier, the budget is divided between maintenance spending and capital spending, with endless arguments. If there was a total budget such as there is for water companies, which also do some of this work, flood defences and flood maintenance would be in a much better state.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Clearly, drainage is an important part of managing any kind of flood risk. If the water cannot go through the drains, it will sit on the surface and cause problems. It is always difficult keeping drains clear throughout a whole flood event, because water inevitably brings with it things that will cause blockages in drains. But it is important that we manage the drains as effectively as we can ahead of flooding and that we also support internal drainage boards.

Internal drainage boards clearly do important work managing water levels and reducing flood risks to farmers and rural communities. The Government have committed to providing an additional £50 million to internal drainage boards over this year and next, to improve, repair or replace the flood-risk assets. This builds on the £25 million that was already being provided. As I have said, we are committed to continuing our work with internal drainage boards and also with MHCLG. With so much of this, the two departments need to come together to get a consistent and effective approach for the long term.

Rural Economy

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 19th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate on calling this debate and for all his work on rural affairs. I am delighted to sit with him on the rural interest group of the Church of England Synod. I pay tribute to the role of the Church in rural areas in times of crisis, as I witnessed during the foot and mouth outbreak in the early 2000s. I declare my interests: I work with the rural doctors—my father and brother were dispensing doctors—of the Dispensing Doctors’ Association. I am also a patron of Upper Teesdale Agricultural Support Services, honorary president of the Huby and Sutton agricultural show and vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities, which have a role to play in preventing flooding in low lying areas.

As a proud Yorkshire lass, I would say that there is lots to celebrate in the rural economy, not least farming, countryside and food—and the best show in town, the Great Yorkshire Show. There is also a role for auction marts, which set the price and have a presence in market towns. They have a role in the rural economy and the community, playing a specific social function. Farmers are fiercely proud and independent, often visiting the auction mart well into their retirement as well as during their active farming lives. When the auction marts closed during the foot and mouth outbreak, there was really nowhere for the farmers to gather and chat. Country shows show the best local farm produce and educate the next generation in the joys of the countryside and farming. The Great Yorkshire Show showed children livestock first hand, and I am delighted to say that I have attended since I was a schoolgirl in Harrogate.

What are the current barriers to the growth of the rural economy? As others have said, the whole rural economy has been impacted by the employers’ national insurance contribution increase—doctor’s surgeries, care homes, hospices and veterinary practices specifically, and every walk of life. The inheritance tax proposals and the revision of agricultural property relief, as well as the removal of capital grants, will severely impact on the farming community. There is also a shortage of farm workers as a result of a shrinking rural population, poor local transport and the cost of housing. All this could be remedied in part by increasing the number of seasonal workers on farms and the length of time they spend on the farms. Rural broadband and mobile phone coverage is still below par, making farm and rural businesses less efficient and competitive. There is less access to banking services, with bank branches and post offices having closed.

The Government should encourage productive farming. We should not build solar farms on grade 2 or grade 3 productive land, as in the test cases currently in Old Malton and east Yorkshire. Tenant farmers have a particular contribution to make, especially in the uplands. Some 48% of farms in North Yorkshire are tenanted, yet their future is bleak and uncertain, given the Government’s Budget proposals.

I pay tribute to the charities supporting the farming community in rural areas; their role is valuable and, sadly, increasing. I am mindful of the mental ill-health and state of anxiety among farmers, which is now sadly also affecting their children. I am also mindful of the levels of farm vehicle theft and other rural crimes, the impact of marital breakdowns, and the fact that farmers are reluctant to visit their doctor and often neglect their own health.

Others have mentioned tourism, hospitality and leisure in the rural economy, and I support their impact. I am delighted to be the honorary president of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. I hope all noble Peers will take the opportunity to visit it during one of the forthcoming recesses.

The UK is on average only 60% self-sufficient in food, yet only 16% in fruit and vegetables. The power of the supermarkets is great; that of growers and the supply chain is weak. The Groceries Code Adjudicator’s role needs to be addressed to ensure that it can undertake reports on its own initiative and not identify those who seek to make a complaint.

What is the way forward? All government policies should be assessed and rural-proofed. That used to happen in the past; it should happen in the future. We should recognise that farmers are key to growing the rural economy, but they need help in meeting the current challenges, whether climate change, flooding on farmland or the increases in oil prices and in the cost of fertilisers and pesticides. Environmental land management schemes are rolling out at a slower pace than the reduction in basic farm payments, leaving farmers with a huge gap in their income.

I beg the Minister not to play Scrooge, as in A Christmas Carol, but to be as generous as the Government can possibly be to farmers. Farmers face an uncertain future. If you want something done, ask a farmer, but they are asking whether we want them to produce food for us anymore. The future of our food system, our rural communities and even our environment is in question. Their future—for the farmers and for growth of the rural economy—is in the Government’s hands. We look to the Minister to provide answers today.

Domestic Animals: Welfare

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. We are aware that there are some digital challenges within the department, and we are looking at that very carefully.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that not enough is being done about puppy smuggling? How many prosecutions for puppy smuggling and for boiler-house productions have there been following the Animal Welfare Act? Boiler-house puppies could be relieved if the mother—the bitch—was present at the sale of the puppies. Will the Government enforce that?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. On puppy smuggling, we have made a clear commitment to end puppy farming. We are also supporting a Private Member’s Bill in the other place on puppy smuggling, because we are determined to do our best to stop these abhorrent practices.

Avian Flu: Turkeys in Norfolk

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

First, the compensation scheme that we are looking at is the same as previously, in that poultry owners will be compensated for the value of the birds if they were healthy at the time of the cull. We have no plans to change that. Secondly, I am extremely aware of the complications around insurance. When we had the previous outbreak, I met a number of poultry owners who were having real problems with insurance. We are very concerned about this, and we will work with insurance companies to monitor the situation.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I congratulate the Government on their swift response to this outbreak. Will the noble Baroness agree with me about the importance of monitoring potential outbreaks from our neighbouring countries in the European Union? Where are we on a potential sanitary and phytosanitary agreement with EU countries, which is so important in this regard?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Clearly, it is really important that we work closely with our European neighbours. The incidences of avian flu are currently not what we have seen in previous years, but we must not be complacent. Working with our European neighbours to monitor outbreaks is absolutely critical, because wild birds fly very long distances so this is an international problem. Regarding the SPS agreements, all I can say is that we are making progress and continuing discussions with the EU.

Storm Bert: National Preparedness

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 28th November 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the state of national preparedness in advance of Storm Bert and the adequacy of the flood warnings prior to the storm reaching the United Kingdom.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

In begging leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, I refer to my interests as co-chairman of the All-Party Water Group and as honorary vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)]

I am very impressed. Protecting communities from flooding is a priority for this Government. The Government continuously assess preparedness for flooding at local and national levels in England. The Met Office, Environment Agency and Flood Forecasting Centre provide multiple flood forecasting and warning services, work with local resilience forums and partners to inform actions, and will consider the effectiveness of the flood response.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful for that response. Our hearts go out to those who lost their lives in the recent floods. Should we be doing more maintenance and dredging between floods? Also, does the Minister share my concern that there should be a one-stop shop for flood warnings? We are to go to the Environment Agency for all flood warnings apart from surface water, for which we have to go to local councils. Obviously, in a time of deep distress, such as a forthcoming flood, it would be much better if there was just one place to go for both preparedness and the issuing of sandbags and such.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

On the dredging question, the Environment Agency undertakes dredging to manage flood risk where it is technically effective, does not significantly increase flood risk for others down stream and is environmentally acceptable. Some locations will benefit from this and others will not, so it is looked at case by case. On flood warnings, my feeling is that most of the time they work very well. I am signed up for them: we get them by email and text, and we get a phone call. I urge anyone who has not signed up for flood warnings and who lives in a flood area to do so, because they are effective. Regarding having a single place, that is something I can take back to the department to review.

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[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

As I am sure the noble Lord is aware, we recently announced £60 million to be distributed through the farming recovery fund for the previous floods. It is very important that we support farmers. It is a very difficult time when your land is flooded; it can take a long time to recover and be very expensive. We are currently looking at this.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

On that point, will the Minister look carefully at the criteria that are set? Farmland that is more than a mile from a river has been flooded, and yet the owners are told that they are not eligible for this funding. It all comes back to surface water and building on flood plains. Will the Minister look closely at that criterion?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

At the moment we are reviewing the whole criteria around flood funding, because it is not fit for purpose and certain areas that require funding are not necessarily eligible to get it. We are looking at it in the whole.

Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging and Packaging Waste) Regulations 2024

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 28th November 2024 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)]

My Lords, these regulations were laid in draft before the House on 24 October 2024. They introduce extended producer responsibility for packaging, which I will refer to as pEPR, in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

PEPR is one of the three core pillars of the Government’s ambitious packaging reforms, alongside the forthcoming deposit return scheme and the simpler recycling programme in England. These will overhaul the packaging waste system, introducing the biggest change to policy in a generation. Collectively, the packaging reforms are estimated to deliver carbon savings of more than 46 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent by 2035, valued at more than £10 billion in carbon benefits.

The new system established under these regulations will modernise the producer responsibility system for packaging in the United Kingdom by shifting the costs of managing discarded household packaging from taxpayers to those businesses that supply packaging and by applying the “polluter pays” principle. These regulations also implement international best practice, exemplified by the mature systems of our European neighbours, including Belgium and Germany, where comprehensive EPR schemes have been in place for some time.

I am sure that Members will note that this SI was drawn to the special attention of the House of Lords by the SLSC. I assure Members that this was on the grounds of it being politically or legally important and it giving rise to issues of public policy that are likely to be of interest to the House.

I turn to the benefits of the scheme. The revenue raised by this new system will generate more than £1 billion annually to support local authority collection, recycling and waste disposal services. This will benefit every household in the UK and stimulate much-needed investment in our recycling infrastructure. This will make a substantial contribution to the benefits of the packaging reforms, which together are estimated to support 21,000 jobs in our nations and regions, and will help to stimulate more than £10 billion of investment in recycling capability over the next decade. Revenue from pEPR will create a much-needed injection of resources into local authorities to improve the household kerbside collection system across the UK. In England, this revenue will fund the simpler recycling reforms that will enable consistent collection of all dry packaging materials, ending the postcode lottery for recycling.

Taken together, these reforms will support this mission-driven Government’s ambition to kick-start economic growth and create the foundations required to transition to a circular economy for packaging in the UK, ensuring that resources are kept in use for longer. It is a critical first step in meeting the commitment in our manifesto to transition to a resource-resilient, productive, circular economy that delivers long-term, sustainable growth.

I will now look at the new obligations that the legislation will bring in. First, these regulations introduce an obligation on businesses that supply household packaging, referred to as “producers”, to pay the costs incurred by local authorities in managing that packaging once it has been discarded. Producers will also be obligated for the cost of providing public information about the correct disposal of packaging. Producers will start incurring fees from April 2025, and invoices will be issued from October 2025 for the 2025-26 scheme year.

Additionally, from the second year of the scheme, producer fees will be adjusted to incentivise producers to make more sustainable decisions at the production/design stage, including decisions that make it easier for products to be reused or recycled at the end of life. This will mean that a producer who uses packaging that is not environmentally sustainable, such as packaging that is not widely recycled, will incur higher fees. Conversely, those using packaging that is sustainable and readily recyclable will incur lower fees.

It is right that businesses bear the costs of managing the packaging that they place on the market, but we must also protect the small businesses that are the life and soul of our high streets and the backbone of our economy. That is why only businesses with a turnover of more than £2 million and which supply more than 50 tonnes of packaging per year will have to pay disposal fees under this new system.

To administer this system, the regulations require the appointment of a scheme administrator jointly by the four nations. This body will be responsible for the implementation of pEPR. This will include the setting of producer fees and the apportionment and payment of those fees to local authorities in order to fund their waste management services. This scheme administrator will initially be hosted within Defra.

I turn to the detail of the obligations that have been retained from the current producer responsibility system. This instrument revokes and replaces the Packaging Waste (Data Reporting) (England) Regulations 2023, along with the equivalent regulations in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. The requirement for packaging producers to collect and report data on the amount and type of packaging that they supply is carried over from these regulations, as amended. This data is used to calculate producers’ recycling and fee obligations.

This instrument also revokes and replaces the Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging Waste) Regulations 2007 and the equivalent regulations in Northern Ireland. As was the case under these regulations, this instrument places obligations on producers to ensure that a proportion of the amount of packaging that they supply is recycled; it also requires them to provide evidence of this to the regulator. These requirements apply to all packaging, not just packaging likely to be disposed of in local authority household collections. To meet this obligation, producers must demonstrate compliance by obtaining packaging recovery notes and packaging export recovery notes from recycling facilities or those who export packaging waste for recycling.

I turn to compliance and enforcement. This instrument provides the four national regulators with enforcement powers and a duty to monitor compliance. It contains strong enforcement measures, including criminal offences and powers for regulators to impose civil sanctions in cases of non-compliance. As is currently the case, the monitoring and enforcement activity for the producer responsibility regime will be funded by the associated charges in these regulations, such as those for registration and accreditation. These charges operate on a cost-recovery basis; as such, they have been increased from the 2007 regulations to reflect the new duties placed on the regulators and the increased level of monitoring and audit activities.

In conclusion, there is no such place as “away”. It is therefore critical that we create the foundations required to transition to a circular economy for packaging, in order to ensure that resources are kept in use for longer and to secure vital carbon savings. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on and thank her for bringing forward these regulations, which I wholeheartedly support; I also thank her for her clear exposition of what they contain. I have a couple of questions.

The Minister set out the responsibilities, particularly around informing households of what they are required to do. I understand that a lot of the waste that is contaminated cannot be effectively disposed of and recycled. Does the Minister know what percentage of household waste that constitutes, including whether it has gone up or down in, say, the last five or 10 years?

I am grateful to the Wildlife and Countryside Link and the Green Alliance for the joint briefing that they have produced for our use. I am also grateful to the Minister for drawing attention to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report, which gave a very helpful background.

My understanding is that the regulations relate only to recycling. I wonder why the department has focused on recycling and not reuse. I have asked on a number of occasions both the Minister and her noble friend the Minister for Energy, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, what the Government’s policy on energy from waste is. It is a good way of using household waste that has been contaminated and cannot be reused. It also prevents it going to landfill, which I understand is where most of the waste that is not recycled will go. So it not only reduces household waste and disposes of it in an energy-efficient way; it also provides an energy stream that other countries in Europe use to great effect. My late aunt and uncle in Denmark had their household heating provided by energy from waste at a reduced rate, so there was a community interest in taking it up. I have not heard anything from the Government—either this department or the department for energy—as to their views on energy from waste.

The Minister referred to kerbside collections, the cost of which is obviously quite high. I have now lost the page but one of the figures relates to the substantial cost of kerbside collections. Is it the idea that household collections will be performed by local councils, which will be reimbursed under the regulations by the funds raised? I think that the Minister alluded to this; that would seem very sensible indeed.

With those few remarks and questions, I commend the regulations, but I am interested to know how much will go to landfill; why the Government have not looked at reuse; what the percentages are for contaminated materials that cannot be recycled; and what the Government’s views are on any residual household waste going to energy from waste plants.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her extensive introduction to this long-awaited SI. This is a complex issue; it has taken Defra and the Government since 2019 to bring it to this stage. I congratulate both of them on managing to get the devolved Administrations to sign up to more or less the same scheme, which should make things easier. I have received briefings from various producers and had face-to-face meetings for several years, and I was beginning to think that we would never get here. I am grateful to those who provided me this week with briefing material, as well as to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its report.

The opening section of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to implementing the “polluter pays” principle. That is to be welcomed. This is an opportunity to use the extensive powers in the Environment Act 2021 in order to implement the best environmental outcomes and to support the efficacy of reuseable packaging systems.

This SI obliges producers to provide evidence of the type of their recycling to the regulator. However, there is no information on how this is to happen, except that those manufacturers with a turnover of more than £2 million and which produce more than 50 tonnes of packaging will do this once a year. These producers will pay the fees to local authorities. Those with a smaller turnover of more than £1 million will have to report their recycling type but will not have to pay fees. There is nothing about how the information is to be collected by the manufacturer and what the format is for it to be reported.

I regret to say that this is something of a “get out of jail free” card. Defra and the Government are placing a great deal of trust in those who will pay the fee to provide the evidence of their recycling. The regulations include the principle, at Regulation 62(2)(b), that producers can offset fees for packaging that they market, as well as where they collect and recycle that packaging through self-funded initiatives.

There is a risk that producers could claim they have collected and recycled packaging when this is not the case. Research shows that 70% of soft plastic packaging waste collected by supermarkets for recycling was, in fact, incinerated. Can the Minister say why is there no standardisation of how evidence of recycling is to be provided?

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I hope I have covered most of the questions raised by Members.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I had one quick question about the policy on energy from waste. Obviously, if the Minister needs to write to me on it, I would be very grateful. Also, the regulations clearly state that aims should be achieved around reduction and reuse, but at the moment, the regulations address recycling only. Any thoughts on that in writing would be very helpful.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The fact that there are incentives for producers to reuse is part of the purpose. It is about not just about recycling, but about changing behaviour to encourage producers to have packaging that can be reused. I hope that is the answer to that. I will write to the noble Baroness on energy from waste.

Solar Farms and Food Production

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

As the noble Baroness rightly points out, solar generation can be co-located with farmland. Many projects, for example, are designed so that livestock grazing can continue, and on the point she made on arable, there is some evidence that it can be better for growing and for nature if there is solar generation on the field.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Is the noble Baroness following closely the test case of the tenant farms in Old Malton, bearing in mind that 48% of all farms in North Yorkshire are tenanted? They are about to be thrown off the land in favour of a solar farm, exactly as my noble friend has described. Will she watch this case very carefully and ensure that no land is taken out of productive farm use when solar panels could go on warehouse and other roofs, which are much more appropriate than farmland?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Regarding tenant farming, the noble Baroness I am sure will be aware that we have announced that we are appointing the first ever commissioner for tenant farming. Clearly, part of their role will be ensuring that we have a fair, balanced, collaborative relationship between tenants and landowners. Part of that relationship will be to ensure that we do not have the kinds of scenarios that she refers to—so, absolutely, we will keep a close watching eye.

Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL]

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

3rd reading
Tuesday 26th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roborough (Con)]

My Lords, the core objectives of the Bill were, of course, supported by all sides of your Lordships’ House. The water and sewerage industry has betrayed consumers, and the regulators have consistently failed to bring these companies to book for many years. It is not so much to ask that we should all be able to enjoy clean and healthy rivers, lakes and beaches. On our Benches, we proposed tough action on the companies and executives responsible, and we are pleased that the Bill now places greater responsibility on the industry to clean itself up, while granting greater powers to regulators to enforce those rules.

This Bill is only a short-term move to impose special measures on the industry while we await the results of the commission, which will report next year. Special measures are, by definition, temporary, and the Government must bring forward the next stage of reform urgently. We look forward to reading and debating those reports and engaging fully with the Government to ensure that the right medium to longer-term reforms are put in place to ensure that all stakeholders’ interests are properly recognised and balanced.

I am most grateful to the Minister for listening to the concerns of the House in constructive engagements in this Chamber and in private meetings with her and her excellent officials. Those engagements were always courteous and helpful in airing the issues around each topic of discussion or debate. The best traditions of the House may be frequently mentioned, but this is a very good example, and, in this case, the Bill is much improved as a result.

The House owes thanks to the Minister for the excellent amendments that the Government brought forward. In particular, the pollution incident reporting plans now have teeth and will be a valuable tool in pushing the industry to do better. I also highlight amendments that place much more weight on using nature-based solutions as an alternative to more traditional investment in infrastructure. These amendments will have a measurable impact on nature recovery efforts in this country.

Although this House amended the Bill to improve accountability on debt levels and financial structuring, thanks in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, as well as on the accountability of the Government on the rules being set, it was a little disappointing that the Government would not accept our amendments to protect the consumer in the event of an SAO, nor to enable the Secretary of State to limit water companies’ debt levels when necessary.

Finally, I thank all noble Lords from all Benches of this House who engaged in debates on the Bill and with whom I had many constructive discussions.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I add my congratulations to the Minister on securing her first Bill in this new Parliament, and through her I pass on my thanks to the Bill team for their solicitations throughout the procedure. I would like to tease her on one item if I may. We did not manage to carry the amendment on mandatory requirements for sustainable drains, nor the end to the automatic right to connect, but will she consider voluntarily bringing forward a report in six months’ time on where we are in introducing mandatory requirements for sustainable drains for major new developments?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I am very happy to take that back to the department and to discuss whether that is possible.