European Council

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

In our negotiations, the Spanish Government have been concerned and clear that it is not possible for a country to break away from a member of the European Union and immediately rejoin the European Union—the Barroso doctrine, which has been reaffirmed by the European Commission. As for Scotland, independence would not mean membership of the European Union. Scotland would remain outside the European Union.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Prime Minister will be pleased to know that millions of Labour supporters across the country will be delighted and will share her and my pleasure at the legal decision taken by Parliament. Did the right hon. Lady have any chance at the Council to discuss informally with EU leaders the position of British citizens in other countries? Are those leaders sticking up for our citizens there in the way we are sticking up for their citizens here?

[The Prime Minister]

I have had several discussions with European leaders on that point. That is why I said in response to an earlier question that there is good will on both sides about dealing with the issue and about recognising the needs not only of UK citizens living in other EU member states but of EU citizens living here in the UK. There is good will, but, as has been made clear in the past, no discussion can happen until the negotiations have been formally triggered.

Informal European Council

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. With his particular constituency interest, he is very aware of the issues around migrants being in the camp at Calais and the pressure that that puts on Dover, particularly when people are trying to get through to the United Kingdom. We will make every effort to work with the French Government to ensure that we do not see a return to the sort of camps that we saw last year in Calais before they were cleared.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

Is the Prime Minister disappointed that the mantra of nothing will be agreed until everything is agreed has been adopted as far as EU citizens in all our countries are concerned? Is it not possible for her to have an informal letter with the Prime Ministers of Spain and France to agree informally, as soon as it is technically possible after the start of article 50 negotiations, to bring in that reciprocality?

[The Prime Minister]

It is not the case that people are saying that, in this particular issue, it can only be agreed at the end of the deal when everything else is agreed. What they have said is that they do not believe that negotiations and discussions on it should not start until article 50 has triggered the formal negotiations. I have every expectation, from the good will that I have seen from others, that it will be possible to get an early agreement on this matter to give people the reassurance that they need.

European Council

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

All I would say to my hon. Friend is that, regardless of which side of the debate Members were on before 23 June, we should all accept the voice of the British people and put that into practice.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on her handling of her first European Union summit. I will not ask her whether she enjoyed it, but does she accept that millions of people who voted to leave—including, let us not forget, millions of Labour voters—will only believe that we are really leaving when we invoke article 50? Will she assure the House that she will not be taken in by those who want to delay and delay and delay in the hope that somehow, somewhere, they will get another referendum?

[The Prime Minister]

I have made it very clear that there is no question of another referendum. While I felt that it was right for us to take some time to prepare before the start of the negotiations through the invoking of article 50, it is also true that, as the hon. Lady says, members of the public will want to see article 50 invoked so that they know that this is going to happen. That is why I think that the timetable for invoking it by the end of March 2017 is the right one.

Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady is right to say that the bit of the report that deals with the issue of whether the Government were involved in coercive diplomacy to try to make Iraq go down a different path or whether this was regime change needs very careful reading, but I disagree with her on Libya. It was a humanitarian intervention to stop the slaughter of innocent people. We then assisted as forces in Libya strove to get rid of a man who was a brutal dictator and who had delivered Semtex to the IRA—Semtex is probably still available to some people in Northern Ireland today—so I defend that. However, as I said, we can put all the processes and procedures in place and put money in, as we have done with Libya, and it can still be difficult to get a good outcome.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

Many of us who voted against the war, particularly those on the Government side, remember the day vividly. We remember the arm-twisting and the letters trying to tell us to go and see the Prime Minister or the Foreign Secretary. There was almost hysteria about getting the vote through. One lesson for Parliament and for Members of Parliament on both sides is that, sometimes, your country comes before your party.

[The Prime Minister]

I think your country should always come before your party. I am not a huge believer in arm-twisting, but there are sometimes occasions when you believe a course of action to be profoundly right and you want to try to persuade your colleagues. I persist in the view that it would have been better to take action with the United States against Assad after his use of chemical weapons—when he crossed that red line—and I attempted to persuade my colleagues. I do not think that I physically twisted anybody’s arm—it was more mental persuasion. I was not successful on that occasion, but that does not mean that it was not worth trying.

EU Council

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend puts it very well. There are a number of informal mechanisms that have grown up, including the counter-terrorism group of countries, mostly from the European Union, and very high-level meetings between our intelligence and security services. There are also quite a lot of now growing mechanisms within the EU, such as the Schengen Information System and the watch lists for people travelling between European Union countries, some of which are very much bound up in EU institutions and rules. People may like that or not, but the fact is they exist and we will have to work out—we can start that now—how to maintain access to as much of that as is possible for our national security.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister explain to the millions of people who voted to leave why, in the next few months while we await a new Prime Minister, this country, using all the professionalism of Her Majesty’s Government, cannot start talking and negotiating—informally perhaps—with Canada, Australia, Malaysia and all those other countries that will be desperately keen to sign up to a trade agreement? Why can we not do some of those things? If we are still paying our full amount into the European Union, will we have to sign up to every single directive that comes through in the next two years?

[The Prime Minister]

On the hon. Lady’s point about Canada, Australia, Malaysia and Indonesia, of course we can start those conversations. It is difficult to start full-on trade negotiations because until we know the relationship between Britain and the European Union single market it would be quite difficult to get into an intensive discussion, but we can certainly have some pathfinding discussions. On the issue of EU directives, we must be very clear that we are members of this organisation and that we pay into this organisation. That continues until the day we leave. Therefore, we have to obey the rules and laws—we would not expect other EU countries suddenly not to obey the rules with respect to us. That is important. On the decisions that have to be made right now, there are those that must be made for legal and practical reasons. There may be some decisions that can be put off for a month or two so that we can get in place a new Government who can think of them in the context of the renegotiation, but we should not do anything that breaks the law.

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

I commend the Prime Minister for the way in which he handled Friday and for the very diplomatic and kind speech he has made today. I ask him to continue to show that leadership over the next month or two, to ensure that some of the hysteria about what is going to happen to our country is kept under control. Will he also condemn very clearly those people who are almost implying that decent people all over this country who voted to leave the European Union are somehow closet racists?

[The Prime Minister]

I have been on the opposite side to the hon. Lady in this debate, but I know that it takes a lot of courage to stand out in the way that she has done. One of my first jobs in politics was as the Conservative candidate’s researcher in the Vauxhall by-election. If I had known then that the hon. Lady would be part of my nemesis, maybe I would have worked even harder. She is right: there are many people on both sides of this debate who have very strong views about tolerance, diversity and all the rest of it, and we need to make sure that that shines through in the coming days.

European Council

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me make a couple of points to my hon. Friend. First, one of the things this renegotiation does is to address some of the principal grudges that I think this country has rightly had: too much of a single currency club, too much political union, too much in terms of migration and lack of respect for welfare systems, not enough competitiveness and removing bureaucracy. Having dealt with some of these grudges, yes, it may be possible to make sure that we get more things done that suit us. I would also agree with something that the Mayor of London said, which is that we need to make sure that we have high-quality British officials in every part of the organisation so that we can help to drive its agenda. My hon. Friend is right that this should be done to settle the issue for a generation. He is also right that we will be publishing the alternatives to membership so that people can see what they are and that there are plans that could be made.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister said that great reform has been granted in the renegotiation. Why, then, did the French President say that the European Union has not granted the United Kingdom any special dispensations from its rules in the deal that has been struck, and go on to say that the Prime Minister had accepted that the City of London would not have special status compared with Europe’s other stock exchanges? Why is there such a difference between what the French President is saying and what the Prime Minister is saying?

[The Prime Minister]

The French Foreign Minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault, said:

“The agreement with the British is a recognition that there is a differentiated Europe”.

I have already quoted the Slovakian and Hungarian Prime Ministers and the former Italian Commissioner, and François Hollande said:

“We have recognised Britain’s position—not in Schengen, not in the Euro Zone, she does not subscribe to the Charter of Fundamental Rights”.

They are recognising that Britain has a special status in Europe.

UK-EU Renegotiation

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The view is that this emergency brake can be brought in under the existing treaties, but only with legislation through the European Parliament. On an accelerated timetable, the leader of one of the major parties said that that could take one, two or three months. That is what makes it clear that we can act in this way not just legally, but—crucially in my view and, I think, in that of the British public— quickly.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

When the Prime Minister meets various EU leaders over the next few months, will he make it clear to them that the result of the referendum is to be decided by the British people, and that they should not try to interfere in any way with the British people’s views? Will he particularly say to the Irish Taoiseach that it was not at all helpful, and indeed it was very uncomplimentary to the people of Northern Ireland, for him to imply that if the people of the United Kingdom decide to leave the European Union, that would threaten the peace process?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree that this decision is for the British people, and the British people alone, and they certainly do not want to hear lectures from other people about that. It is because this affects Britain’s relations with the rest of the world, and other issues, that there may well be people who want to make a positive contribution, and that is a matter for them. I think that the peace process is secure and we must keep going with it, and I believe that the Taoiseach is a friend of the United Kingdom. He spoke up very strongly for Britain at the European Council, and I think he was quite influential in trying to build good will, and saying that we in the European Union should recognise that if a country has a national interest at stake and needs things fixed, we must be a flexible enough organisation, because otherwise we will not be able to sort those things out.

EU Council

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

No. I very much stand by what we put in our manifesto. The four issues that we are renegotiating were clearly set out there and we need to deliver in each of those four areas.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to give his Ministers a free vote, as Harold Wilson did in 1975, but does he realise that underpinning everything in the referendum is trust? How will the British people trust anything that he brings back, dealing with a European Union that they do not trust and with institutions that they do not trust, if we do not have a proper and fully worked out treaty change?

[The Prime Minister]

I think people can see that this is a process in which they can trust. We promised a referendum; we have legislated for a referendum. We promised a renegotiation; that renegotiation is well on course. This is all from a Government who said they would cut the EU budget—nobody believed us, but we did; who said we would veto a treaty if necessary—nobody believed us, but we did; and who said we would bring back the largest number of powers since Britain joined the EU which, with the Justice and Home Affairs opt-out, we did. This is a Government who have a track record, but in the end it will be for the British people to make their decision about where our future is most secure.

ISIL in Syria

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

I apologise for my voice, Mr Speaker, which is hurting me, but I wanted to speak today. Some 12 years ago, I sat over there listening to a very eloquent and emotional speech from the then Prime Minister. We Back Benchers had a lot of pressure on us in that debate, even more than there has been today. I listened to another eloquent speech from a Prime Minister today. Last time I felt an instinct that what we were doing in Iraq was wrong, and I feel that same instinct today.

I am certainly not a pacifist. I was one of the few people, along with Paddy Ashdown, who called for the bombing in Bosnia long before it was Government policy, and I am certainly not a supporter of terrorism, coming as I do from Northern Ireland. I hope the Prime Minister will apologise to me personally, in private, for accusing people such as me, who might be going to vote against this motion, of being in some way in support of terrorism. I take that very personally.

Lots of Members have cited generals and all sorts of important people, but I wish to mention a constituent of mine who was a soldier for nearly 20 years in the regular Army. He wrote to me to say:

“I view with dismay the current clamour to re-engage”

in this war. He says that when we went into Iraq

“I was assured that we had a superb plan that could not fail”,

that when we went to Afghanistan

“I was told, ‘this is nothing like Iraq’, and when the RAF were sent to bomb Libya they were told ‘this is nothing like Afghanistan.’”

They always get it wrong.

I would not be against bombing to remove Daesh if I really believed it would work, but so many questions need to be answered convincingly and if they cannot be, I believe the action is futile. Do we know who our enemy really is? Is it just Daesh or is it all or many of the multiple jihadi groups? Do we know who our allies are? Is Russia our ally? Is Assad perhaps one now? Is our ally anyone who is against Daesh? Do our allies share our objectives and those of all our other allies? We do not and cannot know that, as it is at least a five-sided war. Can we trust our allies? That shows the trouble with alliances of convenience. What happens when our allies’ interests conflict with ours, as they will? Do we then bomb our allies? Will they bomb us? Are Daesh sufficiently concentrated for us to bomb them without an unacceptable loss of civilian life? Is Daesh under a centralised command structure that can be destroyed through bombing? When Daesh is removed from an area, who will come in to rebuild, repopulate and keep the peace? That issue has been raised by so many people.

[Mr Holloway]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Kate Hoey]

No. Will removing Daesh from Syria by bombing reduce worldwide and, in particular, UK jihadism? Will it increase it, as Muslims react to the deaths? Why do we always have to be the policemen going in first? I have not yet heard a genuinely convincing answer to any of those questions. If they remain unanswered and we still go ahead and bomb civilians, we are being as unthinking and reactionary as some of those people we are fighting.

Daesh is an organisation that has no civilised values. We are fighting a cult that has no moral values whatsoever. Bombing will not change that. We have to look at other, cleverer ways and we have to spend some of the money that we are going to spend on this bombing on guarding our borders and making sure that the work against jihadism and fundamentalism in this country is carried out. There is no moral case for this action and I will be supporting the amendment.