European Parliament Elections

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Baroness will be as familiar as I am with the reasons why we might have to go ahead with these elections. After the decision on 29 March not to vote for the withdrawal agreement, it became inevitable that there would be a risk of holding these elections. The Prime Minister has done all that she possibly could to avoid this scenario, and I commend her patience and determination. There is still time to avoid those elections if enough people in another place change their minds and decide to back the deal.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, it is quite clear that we will be fighting these elections, because the Government have not managed to get a deal to which the Commons agrees. In that case, will the Cabinet Office agree to do two things? First, will it alert EU citizens living in this country that they will be able to vote on that day if they are registered by 8 May? Will the Government, for example, remind those on the settled status list of that? Secondly, will the Government ensure that the other 27 Governments alert British citizens resident in their countries that they will be able to vote in those countries on their election dates?

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 15th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbrook]

With respect to the noble Lord, I was not part of that deal so I cannot go into the detail of it. With reference to the Burns report, I have just seen that the Government do not accept the committee’s recommendation that the Prime Minister must now commit to a specific cap on numbers, absolutely limiting appointments in line with the formula proposed. Thus an important element of the Burns report is deemed to be invalid and the major reform which was promised for phase 2 is incomplete.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, it would be helpful if we could intervene from these Benches just once. I have to say that just at the moment I do not feel like a shadow Minister. I feel rather like Alice through the looking glass, as though I had fallen through a door and discovered myself—I will not say at the Mad Hatter’s tea party—somewhere in quite a different century.

On the so-called promise made in 1999, women of my age—or rather six months younger than me—were promised throughout their working lives that they would have a pension at the age of 60; they then discovered, unprepared, and without the money, that it would be 67. This House let that through, so it is quite possible to change what has been promised by an Act of Parliament. It is right to do it by an Act of Parliament rather than any other method, but let us not have any of this, when we consider what has been taken away from women. I am one of the very lucky ones—the last cohort of women who got their pension at 60, which was a long time ago—but a whole swathe of women have lost out.

Along with some colleagues, I met a group of Slovak MPs here in the House earlier this week. As very often when women politicians get together, we fell to discussing female representation in our various Parliaments. I have to say that they were completely mystified as to how this House—with the advantage of appointments and therefore not having to worry about whether the electors always choose equally—had not moved further towards female emancipation. I then pointed out that, with one exception, we had a caucus of 92 men who would always remain here because the system was that, when they left, they would be replaced by another man, and nothing that anyone else could do would alter that. They were a little mystified.

[The Earl of Erroll (CB)]

I am afraid that I have two sons and two daughters, so the two sons would have to go first with no male heir for the daughters to get here; but there are those possibilities and several others here in that position.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

There were several others but, as we know, the figure has gone down from four to one; that is why I said that, with one exception, they are all men. For most on the list, as we have already heard, we are talking about men; in a House of only 400 or 500 active Members, 91 places will always be held for men. That may not make others ashamed, but it makes me ashamed and I am not even one of the people who are here by virtue of my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, great-uncle or anyone else, noble though those people were in their own right. I did not come here having inherited that right through the attributes of some earlier generation. That is what those who stand in the way of this Bill are trying to retain. They are trying to preserve, with some exceptions, the right of sons of people whose attributes 100 or 200 years ago were notable to have a seat in Parliament.

I do not believe that is the right way for us to choose anyone. I do not believe Picasso’s child should be recognised as a top painter simply because their father was. I do not know whether the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, has children, but surely they should not be considered a top ballerina just because their mother was. Yet we think that legislators should be here by virtue of their fathers, grandfathers or earlier forebears. I am not embarrassed by this, but I am embarrassed for those who are here for that reason now—nothing in this Bill will alter the position of those here at the moment—that they should seek to preserve a system whereby, with some exceptions, the sons of people whose forebears were given a seat here should have it, and that they should try to continue this ludicrous system.

We in the Opposition say: this Bill has our support. What we are seeing is a filibuster to try to undermine, talk out and stop the Bill, which will alter something fundamental to our constitution. That is not good enough. It belittles this House, and I think it belittles the hereditaries who are here to vote for the continuation of this system.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

My Lords, perhaps I could intervene briefly at this stage to restate the Government’s position on the Bill. I begin by commending the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, on steering his Bill through the obstacle course in Committee and reaching Report, where there are still a number of hurdles in front of him. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, that I am a life Peer but a hereditary Baronet. I hope that does not confuse his rather binary approach to these issues.

It is clear that many noble Lords wish to see the end of the by-elections, but, despite the oratory of the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, he has not achieved total unanimity. A number of my noble friends, and in earlier exchanges some Cross-Benchers, believe that hereditary Peers should remain, in line with the commitment given at the time, until we have comprehensive reform. I pay tribute to the role that the hereditaries play in our proceedings, as they have a higher participation rate than us lifers.

As the Bill has proceeded through your Lordships’ House, the Government have not obstructed it, nor will we. On the contrary, my noble friend the Chief Whip has been exceptionally generous in the amount of time he has allocated to this Private Member’s Bill, in a field where there are many contenders. While we have some reservations about the Bill, our position is actually academic, as the chances of it reaching the statute book in this Session are, frankly, small, however many meaningful votes are held. The Government’s view is that our energies would be better spent in taking forward the recommendations of the Burns report, as mentioned by my noble friend Lord Elton, which I believe is a more effective way of getting our numbers down than abolishing the by-elections. The Prime Minister has assisted in this process by showing commendable restraint in her nominations to your Lordships’ House, which has caused a lot of distress among former Members of Parliament.

On this particular amendment, noble Lords will know that the House of Lords Appointment Commission was established in 2000 to make nominations for membership of your Lordships’ House to the Cross Benches. It is also responsible for vetting the propriety of all nominations to this House, including candidates for party-political membership. We believe that it does an excellent job and have no plans to make it statutory. As was said earlier, I do not think that amendment sits easily with the main purpose of the Bill. Having set out the Government’s position, I do not plan to intervene again, unless provoked beyond endurance.

Public Procurement (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Thursday 14th March 2019 Lords Chamber

The other order, the one about electronic invoices, is again something we developed together with other European countries, valuably, but of course it is different in character because it is part of the ongoing work we are engaged in as current members of the EU, rather than being a special provision for EU exit. It introduces, in effect, the EU-wide regulations. It aims to modernise and reduce costs for public procurement invoicing and we certainly support that. It is welcome and has the potential to allow efficiency savings across the public sector, but British companies will lose out on EU funds to implement this if they have not already applied for them. It is not clear to me whether any provision will be made by the Government for those companies that move into this process later, when they can no longer take advantage of the Connecting Europe Facility—the CEF programme—from which funding is currently available for companies engaging in this kind of improvement. This seems to me something that is desirable and to be encouraged and is a reminder that our participation in the European Union has been the source of many benefits which we do not want to throw away: many of us would prefer not to be engaging in this operation at all, but if it is to happen, let us preserve the best of what we have achieved.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I join the congratulations to the Minister for the breadth of expertise he brings each time he does one of these. We will now test him with some questions.

I turn first to the Public Procurement (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations, which, as the Minister set out, require contracting authorities for 18 months after exit to continue to meet the obligations to third countries which have procurement arrangements with the EU. As he said, it is an obligation on which we legislated recently—it was actually in February of this year, just a few weeks ago. That SI also provided for the eight-month period concerning signatories to the WTO government procurement agreement.

I have just three points arising from that. One to which I know he will not want to reply concerns the complete chaos in government which makes this sort of change necessary. We do not know when we are going to leave; we do not know whether there will be a deal; we have no idea what sort of trade agreements will exist, either with the EU or with other countries; and we have absolutely no idea if or when we will see the Trade Bill back in the Commons, let alone on the statute book—and of course it is the Trade Bill that the SI in February would have covered. In fact, now that in this House we have made sure that the Trade Bill rules out being commenced if there were to be no deal—and that we have included in it a requirement for the customs union—I have a funny feeling that the Bill might do a slippery little disappearing trick. In a sense, that is symptomatic of where we are at the moment. We are having to do legislation on the hoof. It is two weeks tomorrow that the Government still seem to think we might be able to leave the EU, and we are still having to do these little amendments.

My second question, to which the Minister will probably be more willing to respond, is on the substance of this SI. I understand the purpose: it is, a bit like the noble Lord, Lord Beith, said, to make up for the botched idea of Messrs Fox, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the others that coming out of the EU was simple and painless. In fact, it raises lots of issues, and my major concern is exactly that mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe. While these regulations preserve the rights of suppliers within the EU system to have fair access to UK procurement, there is nothing in the Explanatory Memorandum to indicate whether reciprocity has been negotiated. Obviously it could not be allowed for in a domestic SI, but we are hoping that it has been negotiated so that our UK suppliers will have equal access to the procurement markets of interest to them during the various transition periods allowed for in these regulations. Could the Minister clarify whether such reciprocal access has been similarly preserved, albeit understandably not in a bit of UK domestic legislation?

If it is not provided for, it looks on the face of it as if these regulations unilaterally maintain the openness of our procurement market to a number of countries across the world—allowing them access to enjoy the benefits of our procurement market, which I appreciate can also be good for our procurers—without any assured obligations in return. It would be a bit like throwing British industry under the proverbial bus, competing with non-UK companies here and unable to compete elsewhere. Given yesterday’s 7 am announcement on tariffs, which is already frightening a number of businesses, some reassurance here would be very welcome. I know that at an earlier stage the Minister in the other place simply said that he would “expect” reciprocity, but a Minister’s expectation is probably not sufficient for those companies that need a degree of certainty on this issue. They need to know whether they are going to be able to bid for outside contracts.

My third point—although I appreciate that it might be only the second to which the Minister wishes to respond—is that we know from the Department for International Trade that the Government are anticipating what they call a short gap between the “in principle” agreed accession to the GPA and the “in law” joining of the GPA by the UK. When we did the earlier SI, I think we were told that the gap was because a number of countries needed to agree to our signing up. Could the Minister update us on how long the Government anticipate that the gap would be? Is it days or weeks? I hope it is not months.

The second instrument is a deal rather than a no-deal SI about electronic invoicing. Rather like the noble Baroness, we support anything that promotes the uptake of electronic invoicing in public procurement. I will ask only a couple of questions. First, if we leave two weeks tomorrow—although that does not look likely—can we assume that the regulations would apply, albeit on a voluntary basis, until April of next year, and that they would therefore apply immediately on exit, introducing that common standard that was agreed by the BSI in 2017, which would come in immediately as a standard for government, albeit not for the other authorities for another year? Once they have been introduced, whether it is this year for government or over a longer period for other agencies, what would happen if we were outside the EU at that stage and its European standards were reviewed and amended? Does the UK remain a party to discussions that take place on the standards in the European Committee for Standardisation, where the BSI has been Britain’s voice? Will we retain, through the BSI, a role in the standard-setting done by that committee after we have left? Would we then be able, if we wished, to adapt our own standards and the regulations that go with them so that they continue to follow those in the EU, even if we are outside it, in order that suppliers in particular will use the same format for invoicing, whether they are invoicing in our public procurement system or in that of other countries?

Secondly, when my honourable friend asked a question in the other place she received no reply at that stage—but that was a week ago, so I hope that the Minister now has an answer. It touches on the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Beith, on what support might be available for small businesses. At the moment, the Connecting Europe Facility provided, I think, €430 million between 2014 and 2016 to help UK businesses adapt to these types of changes—but, obviously, after we leave that source of funding will not be there. While the regulations will always remain voluntary, so businesses will not have to do that, we also know that if they do not use electronic invoicing, their paper invoices might be settled a little more slowly than if they were able to use it. Therefore, even though these standards will remain voluntary for businesses, it is obviously important for their cash flow and liquidity that they are able to do the e-invoicing and adapt to it, and in particular to the new standards that will come in. Once we leave the EU and do not have access to the Connecting Europe Facility funding, will the Government commit themselves now to replacing that sort of funding for issues such as these, which are, after all, laid down in legislation?

Finally, as a final cheeky little question, will the Minister confirm that the Government always use e-invoicing themselves, including between departments?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. On the last question, the fast ball which the noble Baroness bowled, I shall have to take advice on the extent to which the Government use electronic invoicing when they invoice. Of course, under the regulations, we will be obliged to process e-invoices if they arrive, but it is a good question and I shall make inquiries on the extent to which we are up to speed on e-invoicing.

As I said, I am grateful to all those who have taken part and will try to go through the questions asked—not necessarily in order. The noble Lord, Lord Beith, asked what would happen if there was an agreement. The answer is that the SI would indeed be suspended, probably by the withdrawal Act. It would be switched off, as with a lot of the other no-deal SIs which have already been passed.

The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, asked about the plan for the UK public sector and the arrangements for publication of notices on the OJEU TED. The withdrawal agreement provides for publication of notices on that site. If there is no deal, the UK has developed its own UK e-notification that will be ready for exit date if it is needed. This is called the Find a Tender Service—FATS. Details were set out in the Explanatory Memorandum to the first EU exit instrument and published in a procurement publicity notice, the latest of which was published on 7 February.

My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe asked what the impact of the SI would be. The basic thrust of the SI is to ensure that there is no change, so, to the extent that there already is a problem, it makes it neither worse nor better: it is neutral. On the issue of public consultation, because the SI imposes no new regulatory burdens on UK businesses and as, as I said, its purpose is to maintain, in so far as possible, existing obligations on contracting authorities as regards suppliers, it has no direct impact on the public sector or the private sector, so it has been unnecessary to undertake consultation with industry. I shall come to my noble friend’s other points in a moment.

The noble Lord, Lord Beith, asked why this will come into force immediately before exit day, whereas everything else comes into effect on exit day. This SI comes into force immediately before exit day because it needs to amend the first SI before that one comes into force at the start of exit day, so we need to cancel the SI to which the noble Baroness referred before it comes into effect. That is why that has to be done the day before, but we hope that none of this will be necessary. The provision will expire after 18 months, after which guaranteed access will cease for suppliers from countries with which we have not made a continuity agreement.

My noble friend Lord Arbuthnot asked about last night’s vote. I hope that the Government will respect the decision of the other place. As my noble friend knows, the legal default in UK and EU law remains that the UK will leave the EU without a deal unless something else is agreed. We are planning for all eventualities with this SI, but I very much hope, as I am sure my noble friend does, that there will be an agreement and we will not need to leave without a deal. As former Members of the other place—as are a number of those who contributed to this debate—I am sure that we hope that the view expressed yesterday there will be respected.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and other noble Lords raised the issue of EU funds being available to support. As she said, no small business will be obliged to use e-invoicing. I am afraid that I do not have a direct answer to her question. The Government have guaranteed that certain grants paid out by the EU before we leave will be funded by the Government up to a certain date. I do not have the details to hand to say whether that guarantee applies to this particular funding issue but I undertake to write to noble Lords with the details. On whether certain invoices would go further down the queue if they were not e-invoices but paper ones, we have very strict rules about the prompt payment of invoices, whether they are e-invoices or paper ones. Certainly as far as the Government are concerned, there would be no such discrimination.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

Does that apply to the Cabinet Office, which I gather has a rather bad record on paying promptly?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I did not catch the noble Baroness’s last words, but the Cabinet Office sets the targets so I would hope that it would be the first government department to ensure that it met them. If she has a specific invoice in mind, I will certainly make inquiries.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

For the record, it was noted in the other place—this may well have been because of a glitch—that the Cabinet Office has one of the worst records on this matter. There were assurances that this would change but it is a bit frightening when the department supposed to be leading on prompt payments is not itself very good.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I stand rebuked on behalf of my department. I will make further inquiries about our prompt payment record and write to the noble Baroness and noble Lords who took part in the debate.

I was asked what would happen to this SI in the event of Article 50 being extended. I think I answered that. The withdrawal Act confers powers to enable the Article 50 period to be extended pending further negotiations so that the definition of exit day can align with the date and time that the EU treaties cease to apply.

On the 18-month extension, if no deal with the EU is reached and we do not yet have powers enabling us to give effect to the UK’s obligations under its own international agreements, the 18-month extension of rights would begin from the new exit day.

My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe made the point that we may be more punctilious in enforcement than other countries, and asked how we can guarantee reciprocal access. As I said, the SI makes no change to the terms of trade she referred to, but we are working with other countries to agree continuity agreements. Many of our discussions are at an advanced stage; some have already been agreed. That will ensure that our access is reciprocated. We will also have guaranteed access to markets in GPA countries, which account for the majority of contract opportunities by value to which the UK currently has access. All our agreements contain provisions relating to remedies for suppliers that have been treated unfairly.

I have just received some in-flight refuelling concerning the serious allegation made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, about prompt payment. She is absolutely right that there was a decline in Cabinet Office prompt payment, which was due to the adoption of a new invoicing system—straight out of “Yes Minister”. That problem is common in other departments. I think I updated either her or another Opposition Member in the House on our progress in that regard a couple of weeks ago. In fact, in recent months, we have come back up to standard in the speed of prompt payments, but I would be happy to write to her to set out those figures in detail.

Turning to whether we will still have access to EU procurement markets if we keep EU obligations, after exit, UK businesses will still enjoy guaranteed access to many of the same procurement opportunities in the EU covered by the WTO’s government procurement agreement through the UK’s GPA membership. This provides access to £1.3 trillion of contract opportunities annually. However, the EU-linked continuity obligations, which we are retaining in this instrument, are obligations towards non-EU countries and so do not have a bearing on UK suppliers’ access to public procurement opportunities in the EU.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, asked when we are expecting formally to accede to the GPA. As I think she knows, the GPA committee formally adopted a decision on the UK’s accession to the GPA in its own right at a meeting in Geneva on 27 February. At the moment we are members through our membership of the EU. The Government intend to deposit their instrument of accession by exit day in a no-deal scenario. Once we have deposited the instrument of accession, there will be a period of 30 days before it takes effect. We are exploring solutions to mitigate the impact of any short gap in the UK’s GPA participation. That is the responsible thing to do and it aims to minimise to the greatest extent any impact on business. In fact, the Government are expecting the short gap in participation to have a minimal impact on UK businesses. In many cases, UK suppliers will have similar rights under the domestic laws of the relevant jurisdiction.

I was asked about the BSI and our continued membership of CEN. CEN is a European institution rather than an EU one. I have a press release from the BSI which states that,

“following the decision taken in the general assemblies of both organizations, BSI will continue to be a full member of CEN and CENELEC regardless of the conditions under which the UK leaves the EU, including in the event that the UK leaves the EU without an agreement”.

I hope that gives the noble Baroness the assurance she seeks.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, on CEN and CENELEC, I think the one that dealt with this was the standards one. If it is a different one, perhaps the noble Lord would care to write to me. I refer to the European Committee for Standardization as opposed to CEN and CENELEC, which deal with electrical safety. Some clarification by letter would be helpful.

Duchy of Cornwall Bill [HL]

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 26th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I also congratulate my noble friend Lord Berkeley on his perseverance on this matter, on today’s Bill, and on his fascinating introduction, which was then reinforced by my noble friend Lord Adonis’s speech. Along with the noble Lord, Lord Marks, I am delighted to be able to return to the issue covered in Clause 1 of the Bill because it follows a long discussion that we had back in 2013 when we were dealing with the Succession to the Crown Act prior to the birth of Prince George. Indeed, I have to confess that I was personally rather disappointed by his gender when he appeared as it delayed the impact of the Act to which we had put in a fair number of hours. Nevertheless, the Act does mean that the young Prince Louis does not overtake Princess Charlotte in the batting order, so we achieved something.

It seems eminently sensible to amend the existing rule passing the Duchy of Cornwall title to the eldest male child of the monarch given that at some future date this may no longer be the heir apparent. If the income is indeed needed to help prepare the future sovereign for their role, then surely that and the whole training that goes with running that estate should be with the heir to the throne and not to her younger brother in those particular circumstances.

A very helpful Lords Library research paper reminded us that the then principal private secretary to the Prince of Wales confirmed that the charter could be amended, so this seems an excellent moment to put that in train. I am afraid that when the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, talked about doing something in 20 years’ time or so, my heart failed. We have had enough of kicking tin cans down the road. If something needs fixing, let us fix it now.

On the taxation immunities, the other aspect of the Bill that has been well covered, that matter could appropriately go to the constitutional convention that my party has long sought because it deals with some important constitutional issues. That would also reflect the advice of the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, to do these things on a cross-party consensus basis. The difference between us is probably that we think we should get on with it and his feeling was to forget about it for now.

There is one aspect, however, that the Minister could clarify when he comes to respond—one already described about the Duchy’s exemption from the Leasehold Reform Act, which prevents leaseholders buying the lease in the way that they could from any other landlord. Given that the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth, has just announced a review of this very issue of leases on houses, and put them in the very capable hands of our colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Best, who is not in his place at the moment, might this specific case also be referred to that group so that it could be looked at in a timely manner? It involves the individual property rights of UK citizens, so it warrants some close and more urgent scrutiny than perhaps some of the other measures might achieve.

I want to reflect on one of the other issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, which is whether a Private Member’s Bill is the right mechanism for this. When the Government fail to act on something that needs to be done, it is a very appropriate way for your Lordships’ House to do it. Indeed, shortly we will move on to another Bill that seeks to implement something which the Government want to see but cannot find legislative time for, so therefore it is being taken through in a Private Member’s Bill. On occasion it seems highly appropriate to use this mechanism for something that needs to be done. As I say, it is better than waiting another 20 or more years.

I look forward to the Government’s response, in particular on their plans for changing the gender rules as regards the inheritance of this title and therefore its assets so that they will indeed go to the heir to the Throne, especially when the heir is a woman.

Brexit: Civil Service Impartiality

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

As the noble Lord has indicated, I have an interest to declare: I was myself a civil servant in the 1960s, working for such agreeable political masters as George Brown and John Stonehouse. But on the serious issue the noble Lord raises, I agree entirely with what he has just said. I think that Oliver Robbins has the most difficult job in the Civil Service; it is quite wrong that he should be the lightning conductor for those unhappy with the negotiations. I deplore the anonymous allegation that he is following his own agenda, against the wishes of Ministers.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, this may be a sad day for the Civil Service in losing Sir Jeremy Heywood but it is a happy day for us. I am sure that even the Lord Speaker, having commended us on reducing the size of the House, will welcome this exception for our new colleague. We wish him well. The best tribute to him will be if we can continue what he says in his farewell letter: that he has tried,

“to challenge lazy thinking and … to find solutions rather than simply identifying … obstacles”.

Our tribute should be that the Civil Service can continue to do that without being attacked because, rather like saying “Fake news”, those who attack it are doing so to undermine the words that civil servants say. When the Minister reaffirms the independence of the Civil Service, as I am sure he will, will he urge those Brexiteers to play the ball and not the man?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I agree with what the noble Baroness has just said and I am grateful for her tribute to Sir Jeremy. The noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, has best summed up the merits of our Civil Service, speaking of its,

“core values of integrity, propriety, objectivity and appointment on merit, able to transfer its loyalty and expertise from one elected government to the next”.

I agree with the noble Baroness’s final point that, whatever one’s politics, one should play the ball and not the man. Ministers bear responsibility for any difficulties in negotiations, not civil servants.

EU Referendum: Conduct

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The Government followed the precedent of earlier referendums, including those from the 1970s and 1990s, in distributing a leaflet setting out the Government’s view.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, the DCMS Committee in the other place has just published alarming evidence of a so-called “Mainstream Network”, which appears to have spent £250,000 to reach 10 million Facebook users, urging them to lobby their MPs to “chuck Chequers”. Could the Minister ask the Electoral Commission to investigate this because it could fall into a pre-election period, or get his own department to consider whether, if this is not against the law, some regulation is needed if we are not to have just millionaires putting money into our political system?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I understand the concern expressed by the noble Baroness and, indeed, by DCMS. It might be a matter for the Information Commissioner, who has been given new powers under the Data Protection Act, which has recently been passed. She is already investigating the possible misuse of data held by Facebook and used by Cambridge Analytica. We will shortly publish a White Paper on online harm setting out our objective to make the UK the safest place in which to be online.

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 7th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Noble Lords demonstrated their support for Burns in the debate that took place last December. It was also confirmed in a debate that took place a year earlier, which I think my noble friend introduced, where the House voted to take steps to reduce its size. As my noble friend knows, the Burns committee has been reconvened and I hope that progress can be made.

The Prime Minister has maintained her policy of restraint so far as new appointments are concerned, with the lowest number of dissolution honours since 1979 and a smaller House than when she took office. Having restated the Government’s position, I propose to listen with interest and patience to the exchanges on the amendments, intervening only when absolutely necessary or when provoked beyond endurance.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, we will try not to provoke beyond endurance. I regret this amendment to the Motion that we should go into Committee. In a sense, it is another Second Reading and that really is not the way that we deal with Bills. I will say only two things. First, 1999 is nearly 20 years ago; in that time, much has happened and much is happening now. Just down the corridor they are reducing the number of MPs by 50, as if that has no impact on the size of the Government or of this House. It seems extraordinary that when the Government are putting a lot of pressure into doing that, they now sit and say that they will do nothing on this issue. That is regrettable. It is something that we could do.

Secondly, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, is wrong to say that it is not for us to do. In the very wise words of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, this is our way of showing that it is for this House to begin to do something. If we take a lead on this, it will help to give a fair wind to Burns. If we cannot even do this minor thing—this just puts more men into this House; a very small number—and begin to reduce the numbers, it does not seem to me that we are very interested in bringing this House into the current century.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My noble friend is setting out the position of our party but the Labour Party manifesto at the last election, which both she and I supported, said:

“Our fundamental belief is that the Second Chamber should be democratically elected”.


Can she explain how this Bill advances that cause?

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

This Bill is about something much more immediate. We are not actually in government. It is very nice to say, “If we want to be in government, we could do something about this House”, but we are not there at the moment. The House can do something at the moment with this Bill. It is a very modest proposal and I call on all noble Lords to move with speed today and get the Bill through.

[The Earl of Erroll (CB)]

My Lords, I support this regret Motion and I will support the Motion of the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, as well because it is about democracy. If the other place is reduced by 50 people, I would point out that the proportion of Ministers who are heads of the Executive’s departments will increase in proportion to the number of Back-Bench MPs. The challenge comes because Parliament is here to control the Executive. The danger in the Commons is that if there are too many Ministers who see themselves as more powerful, yet are circumscribed in what they can join in on as Ministers, that weakens parliamentary scrutiny of the Executive. Therefore, the Bill is extremely dangerous because it will reduce the poison pill—us, the hereditaries—but not incentivise further democratic reform, which I have always supported. Both regret Motions are valid. It cannot be piecemeal because once we go, there will not be further reform. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, is therefore absolutely right, apart from his point about moving Parliaments backwards and forwards, which does not work very well with Strasbourg. Apart from that, the democratic effect is vital. If your Lordships really think that there will be further reform if you allow this Bill through, I think that is charmingly naive.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord True]

My Lords, surely this is a matter than can be addressed when we reach the Burns report. I understand the fervour of the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, who is a good old Labour man, to end the procedure that his party agreed on. However, every time he puts his point before the House, I feel that I must repeatedly say, so that the public realise, that the result of this legislation would be the creation in time of an all-appointed House of Lords. That is the effect of this legislation, but the noble Lord never refers to the effect. One of my fundamental objections is that we would, through passing this legislation, create over time an all-appointed House of Lords without the consent of the British people to a manifesto commitment or a Bill brought before Parliament by a Government. That is the proper way to proceed. This House should not, by a hole-in-the-wall procedure masquerading as modernisation, pass legislation that will have the effect in time of creating an all-appointed House for which there is no current democratic consent. Every time the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, makes his point, I will put that point before the public.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, this is an all-appointed House; it is just that some people are here because their fathers, grandfathers or great-grandfathers were appointed by the King or the Queen at the time. It is an all-appointed House.

[The Earl of Erroll]

The difference is that because we are here and that is found objectionable by some people, we might get a democratic House. If we go, we will not. Those of us who are democrats think that there should be democratic authority and legitimacy in the House of Lords for it to survive long term.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Judge (CB)]

Before the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, answers that question, while I am not speaking on behalf of the Cross Benches—because nobody speaks on behalf of us—can the Cross-Benchers be left to look after themselves, please?

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

Perhaps I may make one small point. I apologise to my noble friend, having said that I would stay quiet all day. I want to say one thing about why the Labour Party so supports this amendment. It was never about the political balance in this House. In fact, it has been a Labour Party claim for a long time that the idea that because people whose fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers and sometimes great-great-grandfathers did service for this country and were therefore put in this House, their subsequent children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren should be here is one that we no longer find democratic. That is the reason why we support this Bill. We put the issue of any political balance on the very wide and strong shoulders of the noble Lord, Lord Burns, and when we are able to move to a smaller House, we will deal with it then. This is not the way to do it. The importance of the Bill is that it is incredible that in the 21st century, we are talking about having by-elections for people because of what their ancestors did.

[Lord Adonis]

My Lords, the incredible thing about the proposal before us is that we would entrench a wholly nominated Chamber of Parliament in perpetuity. My noble friend, whom I hugely respect, says that we support this amendment because it is in line with Labour Party policy. My noble friend Lord Grocott gave me a lecture earlier about how my position was inconsistent with that of the party. The Labour Party’s policy at the last election was:

“Our fundamental belief is that the Second Chamber should be democratically elected”.


I keep inviting my noble friend Lord Grocott to say whether he supports the Labour Party’s policy. Does he support a democratically elected House of Lords?

Terrorism: Emergency Communications

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

On Saturday it will be exactly 13 years since the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was doing press conferences and I was awarded my PhD. It turned out to be quite a day for both of us, although not in the same way. I was on the Tube, due to travel via Aldgate to Mile End for the PhD ceremony. For reasons we now know, the Tube was suddenly evacuated. I was one of the lucky ones not only to get off the Tube unaffected but to be able to use my phone to reassure my other half, who was also travelling that way, that both of us were alive and safe.

In different ways, it was a surreal day. What slowly dawns on one is the absolute horror of what has happened, the number of deaths and injuries—and there is also an awareness, even at that level, of the amazing response of all concerned: Transport for London; the emergency services; the taxi driver who took pity on me; Queen Mary University of London, which turned out food, beds, help and advice to parents and graduates; and a host of others whom we know of now and who were centrally or peripherally involved.

As I said, I managed to use my phone just before it went down. What I then watched, of course, was the students arriving, ready to be gowned up, and the parents ready with their cameras to beam down with pride on their children. In the absence of mobile phones there were terrible gaps: some parents arriving but not the graduates, some graduates arriving but not the parents. As we finally sat down, there were gaps on many seats. Given our proximity to Aldgate, our alarm is easy to understand. Fortunately, we learned—although not until the next day—that nobody, despite where we were, had been affected by that.

Of course, at the time, little did I know about all the issues of the attack, which we now know far more about—nor about the wise words and the content of the report of my noble friend Lord Harris. By the way, I knew him when he was getting ready for his first degree—supposedly, anyway, but I think he spent rather more of his time then as chairman of the Cambridge Fabian Society than studying, as he should have been. However, he has grown a lot since then.

[Noble Lords]

Oh.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

I did not mean—well, when you are in a hole, stop digging.

Both my noble friend’s report and his speech today gave us much food for thought—or indeed gloom, if I may use the word of the noble Lord, Lord Arbuthnot. I will highlight two issues. The first is the robustness of the infrastructure and governance of the systems now emerging. The other is the public. This issue has been touched on already, in all the various scenarios.

On infrastructure, my noble friend’s questions leave one slightly less reassured than is good for one’s blood pressure. I do not know whether he was trying to discomfit us, but the more he spoke, the more I realised the size of the unanswered questions. As he spelled out some of those, it made one realise the seriousness of what we are doing.

As my noble friend Lord Harris says, unlike Airwave the proposed new emergency services network will not have its own exclusive part of the spectrum but will share it with the 4G network—putting our communications, as he said, in one basket, with a single point of failure. He hopes that the 4G never goes down. I also hope—like the noble Lord, Lord Arbuthnot, and the noble Earl, Lord Attlee—that we never have a widespread power failure.

It is not, however, just the noble Lord, Lord Harris, or indeed the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, who have concerns about this. The NAO pointed out the high risk, given that the ESN approach has not yet been used nationwide anywhere in the world and there are currently no suitable handheld and vehicle-mounted devices that will work with it. Some reassurance, therefore, is needed today, provided that it is genuine and not just warm words. That would be appreciated.

How people’s own mobiles work in an emergency is also crucial, as is the question of whether they will give way to emergency personnel with higher priority than a mere member of the public—as I was in those days. As we have heard, emergency personnel may have priority over new calls from the public while still allowing heavy-usage calls already in progress to continue unabated. That was the question posed by my noble friend, to which we look forward to an answer.

The second issue is the public’s access to a network, or to information, during an emergency. That draws on the examples of Grenfell and Oxford Street and of other countries’ experiences—in Nice, Belgium and elsewhere—as well as 7/7. We must recognise people’s need to contact friends and relatives, and for reliable information at such times. I was particularly struck, in the Cabinet Office’s Civil Contingencies Act enhancement programme’s comments on communicating with the public, not simply about the guidance on warnings and providing advice in a timely manner—though that was a strong recommendation—but about the need to provide such information not just at the beginning but throughout the emergency, and at its conclusion. The latter point—something I had not realised or thought about—is crucial: it can be very easy to wind down at that stage and forget that other people do not know that the emergency is over.

The Cabinet Office research also demonstrates the importance of understanding people’s drive to maintain family contact: it is an important issue. We also need to prepare and understand the public’s mindset when faced by such events, as was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Rees. Research and understanding of that area is crucial to a successful emergency system. That understanding should be built into all the systems planning and rank high with the relevant leadership at each event. I am not referring to the kind of highly confidential information described by the noble Viscount, Lord Brookeborough, but to the information that people need at that time to know what to do.

Clearly it is easy to say that, but difficult questions arise over priorities—not only in access to communication systems but in the ranking of who gets told what and when. Those are issues for government, so I would also like to know who leads on it. I also ask the Minister for some assurance that even if the public as a whole cannot be involved in the planning and design of such systems, then civil society, consumer groups or communications experts are part and parcel at every step, so that the public’s needs are not an add-on, too late to influence the decision-making infrastructure and management system. I also ask that professional expertise on how to communicate—as was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Rees—is central to the planning, and not left to people who do not understand such ways of communicating. It is vital that it is built in throughout the planning system: the pre-warning and the training, whether we are talking about outward alerts from the police to mobile phones—really, the equivalent of what I remember as sirens when I was little—or the other issues. I hope that this will be built into our development of new systems and their governance.

These are serious issues and we already have a lot to be thankful for in what is being done in this way. I hope that today’s debate might serve to nudge the Cabinet Office to move a little faster on this vital issue and that my noble friend Lord Harris might be further involved, given that he seems to know rather more about this than I ever wanted to have to know about it.

Official Statistics Order 2018

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the purpose of this draft instrument is to update the list of non-Crown organisations that produce official statistics, as defined in the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 and within the scope of the Code of Practice for Statistics. Statistics are part of the lifeblood of democratic debate. They are a foundation of society, supporting the decisions we make. The Code of Practice for Statistics plays an essential role in ensuring that statistics published by government command public confidence through demonstrating trustworthiness and providing high-quality data that enhances public value.

The draft Official Statistics Order 2018 will revoke and replace the Official Statistics Order 2013, updating the list of UK non-Crown bodies that may produce official statistics and whose statistical activities will be monitored, scrutinised and reported on by the authority.

The Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 established the Statistics Board, the non-ministerial department known as the UK Statistics Authority, as an independent statutory body to promote and safeguard the production and publication of official statistics that serve the public good. Under the Act, official statistics are those produced by Crown bodies, such as government departments, as well as non-Crown statistics specified by an official statistics order.

The authority will work with bodies designated as producers of official statistics to promote good practice, and will monitor and report on the production and publication of official statistics. The authority will also assess the treatment by producers of official statistics against the Code of Practice for Statistics and publish the results of these assessments. If statistics comply with the code, the authority will designate them as “national statistics”.

There have been four previous UK orders, in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2013. Updating the orders regularly ensures that the scope of official statistics remains accurate and relevant in light of the establishment, abolition and name changes of public bodies. There have been equivalent Welsh orders in 2013 and 2017, Scotland orders in 2008 and 2010, and Northern Ireland in 2012. The Scottish Government are in the process of updating their own order, expected to be completed later this year. Northern Ireland began the process of updating its own order, but this process is currently stalled, pending resumption of the Northern Ireland Executive.

I am sure that noble Lords will agree that it is important to designate these bodies as producers of official statistics to bring them within the scope of the Code of Practice for Statistics. The code is consistent with the UN’s Fundamental Principles of Official Statistics, which were adopted by the UN General Assembly in 2014, emphasising the high recognition at a global political level and the importance of good statistics for decision-making in democratic society. Compliance with the code of practice provides assurance that the statistics produced are trustworthy, of high quality and of public value.

This statutory instrument makes a small number of sensible changes to reflect changes to non-Crown bodies since 2013. It is important to note that although the order covers a wide range of bodies, the vast majority of bodies were already designated under the previous order, so this order represents a relatively minor adjustment. The statutory instrument adds four new bodies to the list contained in the 2013 order. These are Monitor, the National Health Service Trust Development Authority, the Office for Students and the Service Complaints Ombudsman. Monitor and the National Health Service Trust Development Authority are the main organisations that make up NHS Improvement. The instrument also alters the name of one body contained in the 2013 order, following a legal change to the body’s name. The Rail Passengers’ Council was renamed the Passengers’ Council by order in 2010. The instrument removes no bodies from the existing list. The UK Statistics Authority has been consulted in preparing this order, in accordance with the Statistics and Registration Service Act, and is content for it to be laid.

In summary, the order updates the list of bodies that are subject to the UK Statistics Authority’s oversight. Those bodies listed on the order will be expected to work to the Code of Practice for Statistics, and their statistics will have the potential to be nominated for formal assessment by the authority to be national statistics. This House agreeing the order is a vital part of maintaining public confidence in official and national statistics and the integrity of the official statistics system. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for such a clear explanation, even if he did not manage to make it sound zippy or a lot of fun. It is an important and non-contentious draft order to which we are happy to give our support. Indeed, we welcome the additions to the schedule of organisations providing official statistics; the more, the better, and especially the better-monitored statistics we have, the better for all of us—the public, the press and politicians—so that we can judge the performance of the Government.

The system that has evolved in this country, particularly the requirement that has been mentioned to abide by a code, in how statistics are kept and how and when they are published, is one that we applaud. As mentioned, the UK Statistics Authority, an independent authority, has the statutory objective of promoting and safeguarding the production and the publication of official statistics. That is a key part of the system although of course it depends on all of the organisations on that schedule and particularly the Government abiding by the code.

The Minister described UKSA’s objective of serving the public good so as to mobilise the power of data to improve decision-making. That accountability includes:

“Informing the public about social and environmental matters, assisting in the development and evaluation of public policy”,


and,

“regulating quality and publicly challenging the misuse of statistics”.

This latter task of monitoring, and in particular when necessary challenging, the use of statistics is particularly important when we see the Government sometimes being a little too free and easy over their handling of data.

Legislation: Gendered Pronouns

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 25th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 says that:

“In any Act, unless the contrary intention appears,—(a) words importing the masculine gender include the feminine; (b) words importing the feminine gender include the masculine; (c) words in the singular include the plural and words in the plural include the singular”.


That remains on the statute book in order to assist the interpretation of legislation before 2007. After 2007, as I said earlier, all new legislation has been drafted using gender-neutral language.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, it did seem at that point that the Minister was competing with the Clerk Assistant for long explanations. I return the Minister to grammar, which he mentioned earlier. An area over which he has some authority is Hansard. Whenever I say “the Government has” done something, it is reported as “the Government have”. This is a great inconvenience for a number of noble Lords. Might the Minister look, not at my words, but at all the stuff that we write which is still, I think, grammatically incorrect?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

If there is one group of people who have listened to what the noble Baroness has just said, it is Hansard. I am sure they will take on board the proposal that she has just put to the House.