Covid-19: Co-ordination with Devolved Administrations
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, my advice is that everybody should respect the rules in place. Rules are normally clear in whichever part of the United Kingdom. Further announcements are being made as we go along. My right honourable friend the Transport Secretary made an announcement on travel this morning, for example, and there will be further announcements next Monday. Of course all public health factors are taken into consideration.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab) [V]
Today’s letter in the Lancet from 100 eminent doctors and scientists, including a former Chief Scientific Adviser and the current head of the BMA, whose members will have to pick up the pieces, warns that the 19 July relaxation of restrictions shows the Government
“embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment”
and calls for a pause in the plans. The letter talks of “grave risks”, with
“any strategy that tolerates high levels of infection”
being
“a dangerous and unethical experiment”.
In the light of this, will the Government engage urgently with these experts and the devolved Governments to ensure the safety of all our people across the four nations?
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, the Government naturally respect informed voices. I do not think that the publication place necessarily establishes authority; we have seen recent examples. There are diverging opinions, which Ministers and those in the devolved Administrations have to take into account. There are also divergent issues. The noble Baroness did not mention the impact on the economy, mental health, people’s expectation or children. All these matters have to be taken into account as we reflect on decisions.
Government Departments: Non-Executive Directors
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord True (Con)
Currently, the position is that the appointments are made by Secretaries of State. I hear what the noble Baroness says, and I repeat to the House that, following the interim report of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, consideration is being given to these matters.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
Non-execs are meant to provide external advice to departments, but, as we know, Mrs Coladangelo, who had known the Secretary of State from university, worked on his leadership campaign and was his political adviser, was personally handed a £1,000-a-day job by Mr Hancock, head of the very organisation to which she was meant to provide that independent advice referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Lamont. Can the Minister assure us that, pending the review and response to the Evans report in the autumn, there will be no more jobs for the boys—or girls—in the meantime? There must be proper scrutiny, including of conflicts of interest.
Lord True (Con)
I certainly agree with the noble Baroness that conflicts of interest should be clear and prevented. At the time of the appointment of the person to whom she referred, there was no evidence of any conflict of interest. The former Secretary of State, who strived hard to serve the country, recognised that he did wrong and he has left the Government, as has Ms Coladangelo her appointment.
Emergency Covid Contracts
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)
The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, have withdrawn, so after the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, will be followed by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, we are learning more day by day, are we not? In addition to a VIP fast lane for contracts, we know that Health Ministers had at least 27 undeclared meetings, including with potential contractors, some of whom then went on to win handsome contracts. Why did these meetings take place without civil servants being present, both to advise and to minute? How much did the Permanent Secretary know about this and what advice was given? Most importantly, has this practice now stopped?
The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)
My Lords, I believe the noble Baroness is referring to meetings that took place within the Department of Health and Social Care. I am advised that those meetings were not declared or reported simply because of an administrative error, which has been corrected. Therefore, the implication that this was something intended to hide meetings which were obviously involved in seeking to respond to the Covid crisis and to encourage people, as I understand it, to be involved with assisting the national effort is wrong. Those meetings were regular meetings that took place within the department; they simply were not reported, through an administrative error. As to the specific details of the meetings, although I acknowledge the responsibility to answer on behalf of the Government, I would have to refer to the Department of Health and Social Care for details of their content.
UK Government Union Capability
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, we have heard some heartfelt speeches today, which I hope will nudge the Government to move rather more speedily than thus far, both in replenishing devolution settlements and in safeguarding the union—indeed, creating a better union, in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Howell—because “snail’s pace” best describes the progress so far. The direction may have been acceptable, but not the velocity—though I have to say the picture of the English flag over HMT on Tuesday, with no equivalent Welsh flag earlier, did not really feel like a Government for all the Kingdom.
As we have heard, it took 16 months to publish Dunlop, and even then, there was not the courtesy to share its contents with the Welsh Government in the interim. The review of intergovernmental relations, meanwhile, specifically excluded consideration of the powers or responsibilities of the devolved Administrations and their legislatures, despite the need, so many years after their establishment, to think about possible changes. This was a pity, though it did cover some important areas, such as how the UK Government work within a devolved world.
The noble Lord, Lord Dunlop called for a full-time Cabinet Minister with responsibility for the union. As he said, that would be a test of whether the Government were serious about the sort of change needed to protect the union. Regrettably, the Prime Minister has instead taken to himself the title Minister for the Union—a bit like “President for Life” or “Master of all things” in some less democratic traditions—although, importantly, this is despite the fact that he clearly cannot be working full-time on this issue, as the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, has just noted. Some urgency is definitely needed.
I recently visited the Nero exhibition at the BM. Its theme was that Nero did not actually fiddle while Rome burned. However, if the Prime Minister and, indeed, Mr Gove do not put down their lyres and pick up some real constitutional tools, future historians will ask: what on earth were they doing, even as the devolved nations tired of being ignored, their decision-making rights being undermined and a fair distribution of the country’s wealth and opportunities not being shared? This is not just a Labour view. The noble Lord, Lord Lang, talked of wasted years, and I read on ConservativeHome—my reading of choice—that
“pro-Union Tories are also concerned that … the Government has instead relegated”
the issue of the union
“to a lower priority. They’re squandering the opportunity … the Government is simply offering a series of announcements ‘of varying quality’ and with no obvious theme.”
In his most impressive opening speech, the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, said that this debate was about a major part of the UK’s internal soul. Indeed, many of us feel that. A genuine look at the future of the union should take account not only of the fallout of the Scottish referendum and subsequent developments but of two post-2016 factors. The first is that the different parts of our union did not all take the same view of continuing EU membership. Secondly, the repatriation of former EU powers in areas of devolved competence necessitates a far greater and embedded system of intergovernmental relations.
As the noble Earl reminded us, back in 2017 his committee heard calls for
“fundamental reform … to give the devolved institutions a more formal role in UK decision-making post-Brexit”.
Since then, we have sometimes seen consultation, but no shared decision-making. This led, as pointed out by my noble friend Lord Murphy, the Welsh First Minister to label the very future of the UK “fragile”, because of the UK Government acting too “aggressively” and without regard for the status of the nations and the democratic mandates of their Governments.
This Government’s internal market Act and its expenditure in areas of devolved competence have stretched good relations between the UK’s elected Administrations. Launching his alternative Reforming our Union document to make the UK stronger, Mark Drakeford said that relationships within the UK need to be “reset”, with the union of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland based on “a partnership of equals”. Mr Drakeford said that
“where the UK government acts in an … unilateral way on behalf of the whole UK, without regard for”
the devolved nations, it
“inevitably creates anger and alienation”,
and lacks the essential
“constructive and collaborative relationship between the governments”.
So change is needed if we are to prevent the break-up of the UK.
The UK is a voluntary union of four nations, a “multinational state” in my noble friend Lord McConnell’s choice of words—a successful multinational state. But it is a voluntary union of which devolution is a permanent feature, which cannot be undone without the agreement of the peoples of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Like my noble friend Lord Murphy, Mark Drakeford, the First Minister, called for the House of Lords, provided it represents all four nations, to be given the job of protecting the constitution and devolution.
Wales’s 20-point plan included a constitutional convention, which, as my noble friend Lady Bryan mentioned, was called for in the Conservative manifesto. The UK Government’s response to the Welsh plan said:
“Choosing to prioritise constitutional issues in the middle of a pandemic is an irresponsible and unwanted distraction.”
How wrong, my Lords. It ignores the fact that, since 2017, pre Covid, nothing has been done, but it also reflects a lack of urgency—indeed, a lack of concern that something is amiss in the four-nation relationship and our governance—for a post-Brexit devolved settlement, and a lack of respect for the devolved Administrations. The word “respect” was used by the noble Baroness, Lady Fraser, my noble friend Lord Davies of Brixton and the noble Lord, Lord Dodds— respect for the devolved settlements. I hope the lack of urgency and dismissal by the Government will not be repeated by the Minister as he responds to this debate.
Security of Ministers’ Offices and Communications
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
The former Secretary of State used his private email account for work, which jeopardises security, accountability and transparency. Did the Permanent Secretary know and what action was taken? How many other Members, including in this House, use private emails? Will all these emails now be copied in to the department’s secure archive and retrieval system? Finally, how many people had access to the CCTV and were they security cleared?
The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)
My Lords, on private emails, government guidance is that official devices, email accounts and communication applications should be used for communicating classified information. Other forms of electronic communication may be used in the course of conducting government business. Each Minister is responsible for ensuring that government information is handled in a secure way. The specific quantitative points the noble Baroness raised I cannot respond to at this point. But, in answer to another of the noble Baroness’s questions, the official information held in private email accounts is subject to FoI.
Civil Society Forum: UK Delegation
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Frost (Con)
My Lords, I certainly agree that the civil society forum, when it is up and running, should seek to draw in as wide a range of expertise and ideas as it possibly can. I certainly agree that it is also important that the Government meet as wide a range of civil society organisations, broadly defined, as possible. I certainly meet business representations weekly from sector to sector. I have met a wide range of civil society representatives in Northern Ireland, and we continue to do so.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, we know that this was discussed at the beginning of the month in the Partnership Council. Indeed, I raised it at the previous Questions to the Minister on 27 May so, as my noble friend just described, it was very nice to get the letter last night. We have a habit of getting letters from Ministers late at night—one of the Minister’s colleagues does the same thing. I know that time might move a bit slowly for the Minister, but can he confirm two things? First, is there beginning to be a list, on paper, about who might sit on the forum? Secondly, does he agree that the domestic advisory group, which should feed into the forum, needs to be up and running before the forum so that that group—in other words, the British section of the forum—can begin meeting, thinking and preparing, so that when it meets its EU counterparts it is equipped to do the job that the forum will be set up to do?
Lord Frost (Con)
My Lords, obviously, a prerequisite for moving this forward has been the first meeting of the Partnership Council to kick it off, which happened only two and half weeks ago, so we are in the early stages of identifying the possible UK representatives. It is for departments to do that, and departments are engaging very actively with the civil society groups they meet. Our intention is absolutely to establish a collective capacity on the UK side to begin the discussions with the European Union. We are at rather an early stage of that process.
UK and EU Relations
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Frost (Con)
My Lords, we are aware of that issue and in discussion with the European Union about it. It is of course consistent with taking back control ourselves that the other party to the treaty also takes back control. That is what the treaty is designed to regulate. We believe that the benefits of having control over our own rules and the opportunities that offers us globally will be best in the long run for this country.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
It was indeed five years ago today that we got the results of the referendum. For five years I have been at this Dispatch Box. I have done the talks, the Statements, the Bills and Questions to the Ministers: the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, the noble Lord, Lord True, and now the noble Lord, Lord Frost. In taking my leave of this portfolio this week—and not before time—I am delighted that my noble friend Lady Chapman will hold the Minister’s feet to the fire in future. She is a welcome addition to our Benches. But before I depart, perhaps the Minister could explain to the House how the deal that he negotiated and advised the Prime Minister to sign has led to quite such a “bumpy ride”—his words—and whether he can persuade the Prime Minister to heed Monsieur Barnier’s advice to respect his signature on the withdrawal agreement.
Lord Frost (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for our sadly brief but enjoyable co-operation. I look forward to standing here at the Dispatch Box and dealing with her successor. On her question, the difficulty is that we did something pretty exceptional as a country in the withdrawal agreement, which was to agree that goods could be controlled in a particular way as they moved within our own country. Self-evidently that can happen only if it is applied with a degree of delicacy, pragmatism and proportionality, which, unfortunately, we are not seeing. That is the core of the difficulty. If we can re-establish the balance, we shall be able to find a satisfactory way forward.
Public Procurement (International Trade Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2021
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab) [V]
I thank the Minister for his introduction, but I am afraid the main question I would like to put to him—to which I fear I cannot expect a reply—is whether all those arch- Brexiteers really did all that campaigning just to spend time on a sunny summer afternoon on SIs which simply put in place exactly the same rules that we had before exit day? I do not expect him to answer that.
However, that is what this looks like, as a result of rolling over EU agreements, some large, some small, as the Minister mentioned, with Chile, Switzerland, Israel, the CARIFORUM states, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, central America, Singapore, Korea, Georgia, Kosovo, Ukraine, Japan, North Macedonia, Canada, Mexico, Vietnam, Albania and Serbia—I look forward to the Minister’s response to the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, on that one, given that it does not appear to have gone through CRaG. These regulations simply seem to retain our public procurement rules, in line with those the EU already has with these countries and which therefore applied to us before we left. We are going through all this just to maintain what was there beforehand.
As the Minister said, the Trade Act 2021, which authorises these regulations, covers deals with countries which have trade agreements with the EU—in other words, the ones they are rolling over—so we just continue as before. As he rightly says, we have to agree this to honour the existing deals we have chosen to continue to operate, and to ensure that any UK relevant public authority treats the suppliers of services or economic operators in the countries listed no less favourably than home competitors.
We are where we are, and we are just continuing it. But the interesting question—to which I would prefer an answer over my tease at the start—is that posed by my noble friend Lord Haskel: if, as we keep hearing, the whole point of Brexit was to give us the freedom to sign our own deals, why not add into these a requirement that all public procurement from domestic or overseas suppliers includes sustainability clauses, fairness to SMEs, worker protection and consumer rights?
I do not want the Minister to have given up his nice sunny afternoon in vain, so some thoughts on how the Brexit freedom can be translated into our public procurement would be enlightening. Even as I absolutely signify our acceptance of these uncontroversial regulations, as he called them, it would be interesting to know whether the Government will be a little more ambitious than it appears from this.
Constitution Inquiry
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, I will not anticipate the answer that may or may not come to that question. Given the broad nature of the constitution, we are taking forward the work via a range of workstreams, as my noble friend said. So far as your Lordships’ House is concerned, I have the greatest reverence for this House, and I believe that any institution that does its work well and sticks to its last will gain respect.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
I do not know whether the Minister has read the Haggard and Kaufman book, Backsliding: Democratic Regress in the Contemporary World, but I wonder whether he shares its concern that without care and protection, our democratic strengths and constitution can be undermined by the lack of parliamentary, legal and press scrutiny. If he agrees, does he therefore think that a serious look at how government decisions are taken, in order to increase transparency and accountability, is now well overdue?
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, within that question there are absolutes and particulars. Having had the honour to be elected by my fellow citizens many times in elections, my own view is that accountability to the people is fundamental, and I also believe that transparency and openness are extraordinarily important. In that respect, I agree with the noble Baroness.
UK–EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Meetings of Bodies
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts(2 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Frost (Con)
My Lords, extradition arrangements were indeed the subject of quite a large part of the negotiations, and in our view—the Government’s view—the agreement that we reached with the EU deals with many of the defects that were present in the earlier European arrest warrant system. It is part of the standard way in which extradition arrangements work that member states can, in certain circumstances, refuse to extradite their own nationals, and some member states have made that clear. We continue to discuss this issue with the Commission and all the member states concerned.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, the multi-layered governance structure mentioned by the noble Earl is not the only thing that needs to be set up under the TCA. The civil society forum and the domestic advisory group are vital channels into Government, and the partnership council decisions. The UK cannot by itself set up the joint forum, but it can—and surely should—establish a domestic advisory group to feed into the forum. Can the Minister, who is responsible for getting this going, tell us the date when that will happen, and assure us that preparations go a little beyond what he referred to in his Written Answer to me this week—just to
“engage with business and civil society”?
I think it is time for action now.