Spending Review 2020
Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts(3 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Oates (LD)
My Lords, on 23 October 1984 I, like millions of others, watched Michael Buerk’s harrowing report on the Ethiopian famine. The words and images still reverberate with me today, these in particular:
“This three year-old girl was beyond any help: unable to take food, attached to a drip but too late; the drip was taken away. Only minutes later, while we were filming, she died. Her mother had lost all her four children and her husband.”
I was 14 at the time and there was something about that simple statement that overwhelmed me. It was so relatable and so devastating. That is where my politics began.
This spending review takes us back to those days, because then, just like now, the Government were cutting the share of our wealth that we spend on the poorest of the world—from 0.5% of GNI in 1979 to 0.33% in 1984 and just 0.27% in 1990. The lesson is that, once they start cutting the aid budget, they do not stop.
In later years I worked in a number of countries in Africa and saw the impact of our aid: the suffering it alleviated, the huge progress in raising people out of poverty, and the stunning success in tackling disease. So I was immensely proud to be in the Cabinet meeting when it was confirmed that the coalition had met the Liberal Democrat manifesto commitment to spend 0.7% of GNI on development. However, despite that success, we still had not met the Conservative manifesto pledge, which was to put that commitment into law. So, in 2014, my friend Mike Moore and my noble friend Lord Purvis moved decisively to rescue the Conservatives from this failure by introducing a Private Member’s Bill which became the International Development Act 2015, narrowly saving the Tories from betraying their own manifesto commitment.
My noble friends and I intend to provide that service to the Conservative Party once again, by ensuring that the December 2019 Conservative manifesto commitment is upheld, and the shameful policy of penalising the poorest in the world in their hour of greatest need is rejected.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
The noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, has withdrawn, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood.
Lord Inglewood (Non-Afl) [V]
My Lords, looking across the northern business landscape, as I do, from the perspective of chair of the Cumbria Local Enterprise Partnership, the prospect is not cheerful. But the spending review is a start—a real start—on the road to employment and prosperity, which are two sides of the same coin.
Having said that, it is far from a complete solution by itself. Levelling up is hugely important and welcome, and infrastructure projects will play a part—albeit a relatively straightforward and visible part—of a much larger, more complicated and less obviously visible process of dealing with the consequences of Covid-19 and the implications of the end of the Brexit transition period. Whatever the latter may bring, there is agreement across all ranges of opinion that there is going to be real economic turbulence and upheaval, likely in many cases to be exacerbated by the existential implications of Covid having taken focus away from both its problems and its opportunities. As I have said on a number of occasions, if you are in a shipwreck, saving your baggage is low on your list of priorities.
My concern in these remarks, based on my own observations and experience, is the plight of small businesses—one-man bands, family businesses with an employee or two: that part of the economy. They do not have sharp-suited, smooth-talking lobbyists in Whitehall and Westminster. Present initiatives do not appear to be reaching them as hoped. These businesses and families are the bedrock of this country. Many have been ruined or enormously damaged financially; they are frightened by what lies ahead and their morale is low. They need the economic equivalent of what the National Health Service is giving Covid patients; they need genuine, relevant assistance and support, based on actual experience and a pragmatic understanding of the real world, not academia, think tanks or governance and administration—and they need it now. The impact of what is happening will last for years, if not decades, and the survivors of this unprecedented chapter in our history will be the launch pad for the next stage of recovery. The cure for the public finances must not be allowed to kill them, because each and every survivor is part of the future, and we need every one.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
save-line3The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, has withdrawn so I call the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh.
G7 Summit
Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts(3 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, of course I note the points made by the noble Lord. The Prime Minister will give further details on the agenda for the G7 shortly.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
Is the noble Lord, Lord Walney, with us? I do not see him, so I call the noble Baroness, Lady Fall.
Baroness Fall (Con) [V]
My Lords, the G7 started life as a fireside chat between the most powerful people in the world, a chance to resolve some of the most critical issues of the day—at the moment they will be spoiled for choice. If we want to see global action on climate change, Covid, mass migration, combating terrorism, eradicating poverty and dealing with China’s growing influence in the world, the provision of 0.7% is a very good way to start. Will the Minister explain how the cutting of ODA at this particular time, when we are about to take over the leadership of the G7, will prepare for those huge challenges?
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend makes a profoundly important point. Again, within the constraints of not being able to anticipate announcements, I say that further details will come. What I can say to her is that, as she and I are both aware, girls’ education and training have always been a priority for the Prime Minister, and I am certain that he will drive that forward through the G7 discussions.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and answered and we now move to the next Question.
Covid-19 Lockdown: Economic Support
Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)
My Lords, my honourable friend the Economic Secretary is in constant dialogue with the banks on how all these schemes operate; he continues to try to help to improve them. If the noble Lord would like to write to me on the specific concern he mentioned, I will ensure that it gets the proper attention.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. I apologise to the noble Baronesses, Lady Redfern and Lady Uddin, who were not able to put their questions.
EU Exit: Negotiations and the Joint Committee
Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)
Well, My Lords, after listening to the submissions from the noble Baronesses opposite, I must say I warm to the smooth, diplomatic talk of Monsieur Barnier.
I have always respected the Liberal Democrat Party’s consistency and determination to keep, then get back, the UK in the European Union of which they are so fond. But I listened—I strained my ears—to hear some acceptance in the submission from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that the British people had set an objective. She asked what the objective is; it is that set by the British people that the United Kingdom shall be an independent nation, free to set its own laws and proceed with mutual respect alongside our European partners. Not one word in the speeches from the parties opposite recognised that. Instead, I heard a litany of criticism of the stance this Government are taking on behalf of the British people. It was not Project Fear—it was, frankly, project invention. I was immensely disappointed by the tone. I think everybody outside this House should take note of the position of the Labour Party: it supports, in no respect, the efforts of the United Kingdom to secure a good deal, and in every respect, parrots the criticisms that come from the European Union.
This Government are intent on securing a good outcome for the United Kingdom. That outcome is the one I have described. I regret the delays and difficulties that have taken place, which were ascribed by the parties opposite entirely to the United Kingdom. In fact, the European Union was willing to undertake negotiations on fewer than half of the days available, it would not engage on all the outstanding issues and, despite what the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said, it has refused to discuss legal text in any area since the summer. It is almost incredible to me that we have reached this point in negotiations without any legal text of any kind. Then, on 15 October, the EU heads of state gathered for the European Council and made the statement they did, and the response from the Prime Minister to that statement was entirely reasonable and predictable in the circumstances.
As my noble friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and others have made clear, this Government are always ready listen to serious approaches, but they have to be serious. This Government will continue to make preparations, as they have done for months, for whichever eventuality arises, whether it is the Australian outcome or, as we would have preferred, the Canada outcome. That work is ongoing. There is engagement with business, as was referred to in the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster spoke to representatives of business yesterday. Across the board, there are ongoing discussions.
I was asked about the goods vehicle IT; we have discussed that in this House before. We are confident that it is proceeding well. The arrangements for border management have been published and updated.
On security, in the last round, there was discussion of law enforcement, which covered a number of capabilities, including Prüm and mutual legal assistance. Security is of course important, but the whole gamut of relations between us and the European Union is important, and people on both sides have to reflect on how they want to see things go forward. The United Kingdom will adjust to any eventuality.
We note, with interest, that the EU’s negotiator, speaking to the European Parliament this morning, has commented in a significant way on the issues behind the current difficulties in our talks. We are carefully studying what was said, and I can tell the House that my noble friend Lord Frost will discuss the situation when he speaks to Monsieur Barnier later today.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, we now come to the 20 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers be brief, so that I can call the maximum number of speakers.
Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
My Lords, the Statement very clearly says that this country should get ready for 1 January 2021 on arrangements that are more like Australia’s—in other words, WTO rules. Does the Minister agree with the 71 trade associations and professional bodies—along with the CBI, of which I am president—representing 190,000 businesses and 7 million employees, calling on politicians on both sides to carve a path towards a deal, followed by the European business groups from France, Germany and Italy also calling for smooth trading conditions and a solution? Does he agree that now is the time for compromise and tenacity and that a deal can be done? If there is a deal, there will be a platform on which to build, for security, movement of people and all other parts of our relationship.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
Questions and answers should be as brief as possible, please, so that we can get through more people.
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, I apologise to the House if I have infringed. I say then to the noble Lord that, whatever the outcome of the negotiations, the UK is leaving the single market and the customs territory, and everybody will have to make arrangements to act in those circumstances.
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, we are more hopeful. The position on third-country listing was extraordinarily disappointing. The statements and threats made in that respect were unacceptable. Goods at risk is an area of discussion in the appropriate committee. I will not foresee the outcome of those discussions.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, I congratulate the Minister and noble Lords on all supplementary questions having been asked and answered.
Parliamentary Constituencies Bill
Baroness Garden of Frognal ExcerptsThursday 8th October 2020
(3 years, 7 months ago)
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The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
I have received a request to ask a short question for elucidation from the noble Lord, Lord Cormack.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, I have a very short question for my noble friend, to whom I have listened with great care and considerable sympathy. What can possibly be lost by putting the four constituent countries of the United Kingdom on a similar footing?
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, we now come to the group beginning with Amendment 12. I have to inform your Lordships that we have had three people scratch from this group, the noble Lords, Lord Hain and Lord Cormack, and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. I remind noble Lords that Members other than the mover and the Minister may speak only once, and that short questions of elucidation are discouraged. Anyone wishing to press this, or anything else in this group, to a Division should make that clear in debate.
Amendment 12
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
The noble Lord, Lord Hain, and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, have withdrawn, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Grocott.
Lord Grocott (Lab) [V]
My Lords, I shall speak to my noble friend’s amendment and I agree with every word she said. I do not have a great deal to add. I also agree with much of what the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, said. That emphasises that we are not talking about an issue of principle in any of the amendments in the group but one of degree. It is worth reminding ourselves that there is widespread agreement across the House on most of contents of the Bill. That has been recognised even on a day like today when there have inevitably been Divisions, as there always will be. We are all agreed in our opposition to huge variations in the size of constituencies and that we should aim for equality—not precise arithmetic equality but much greater equality.
As regards my background in fighting elections, if anyone is qualified to speak on the issue of huge variations in constituency size, I can probably, without too much vanity, claim that qualification. At one stage, I represented a seat with an electorate of 57,000 and at another represented a seat with an electorate of 100,000. I therefore bow to no one in my belief that there should be far greater equality in constituency size, and that is agreed across the House.
We also all agree across the House—I include the Government in this—that there is much more to it than the simple question of arithmetic when determining constituency boundaries. We know all the guidance given to the Boundary Commission but in the Bill the Government acknowledge this issue by exempting certain constituencies from the general framework in which boundaries must be drawn. There are five such constituencies, whose inclusion I support but not for the flimsy reason that the Government claim—that they are all in one category. That is true to the extent that they are all islands or groups of islands but there also is a great deal of difference between them. No obvious similarities spring to mind between Anglesey and the Shetlands, or between the Isle of Wight and the Western Isles. Many more geographic issues need to be taken into account than the category of being islands, which is the only one that the Government seem to acknowledge, with all the frailties of that argument.
I agree with my noble friend’s amendment, which seeks greater flexibility and, in particular, has the important characteristic regarding Wales mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and my noble friend Lady Hayter. I do not hesitate to repeat what I said in Committee. I was shocked at the impact of the boundary review proposals that we are considering in the Bill on representation in Wales. The House should walk on the other side on that issue with great care.
In conclusion, there is no great issue of principle that divides the Government from those of us who feel that there should be greater flexibility. All that we are asking is that they should change the rules in the Bill to allow a little more flexibility for the Boundary Commission, and Minister should offer more flexibility when he responds.
Parliamentary Constituencies Bill
Baroness Garden of Frognal ExcerptsTuesday 8th September 2020
(3 years, 8 months ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Parliamentary Constituencies Act 2020 View all Parliamentary Constituencies Act 2020 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: HL Bill 126-II(Rev) Revised Second marshalled list for Grand Committee - (8 Sep 2020)
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, after a short glitch, the Hybrid Grand Committee will now begin. Some Members are here in person, respecting social distancing, others are participating remotely, but all Members will be treated equally. I must ask Members in the Room to wear a face covering except when seated at their desk, to speak sitting down and to wipe down their desk chair and any other touch points before and after use. If the capacity of the Committee Room is exceeded, or other safety requirements are breached, I will immediately adjourn the Committee. If there is a division in the House, the Committee will adjourn for five minutes.
We now come to the Grand Committee on the Parliamentary Constituencies Bill. A participants’ list for the day’s proceedings has been published by the Government Whips’ Office, as have lists of Members who have put their names to the amendments or expressed an interest in speaking on each group. I will call Members to speak in the order listed; Members are not permitted to intervene spontaneously. The Chair calls each speaker. Interventions during speeches or “before the noble Lord sits down” are not permitted. During the debate on each group, I will invite Members, including Members in the Committee Room, to email the clerk if they wish to speak after the Minister, using the Grand Committee address. I will call Members to speak in order of request and will call the Minister to reply each time.
The groupings are binding: it will not be possible to degroup an amendment for separate debate. A Member intending to move formally an amendment already debated should have given notice in the debate. Leave should be given to withdraw amendments. When putting the question, I will collect voices in the Committee Room only. I remind Members that Divisions cannot take place in Grand Committee. It takes unanimity to amend the Bill, so if a single voice says “Not Content”, an amendment is negatived, and if a single voice says “Content”, a clause stands part. If a Member taking part remotely intends to oppose an amendment expected to be agreed to, they should make this clear when speaking on the group. We will now begin.
Clause 1: Reports of the Boundary Commissions
Amendment 1
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab) [V]
My Lords, it is an honour to move the very first amendment of the first Bill to be taken in Grand Committee in its hybrid form. It is an unexpected pleasure. I wish the Chair luck in dealing with this new configuration.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab) [V]
Amendment 1, which is also in the names of my noble friends Lord Lennie and Lord Grocott, simply re-establishes the existing practice whereby once the Boundary Commissions have done their work, Parliament puts it into legislation. Without this amendment, the Bill provides that the Boundary Commissions’ reviews will be implemented automatically by Order in Council, which, as we know, are not subject to parliamentary approval or any procedure.
There are four reasons to support this amendment. First, there has been no indication of any problem that the Bill seeks to solve with this change. There has been no pre-legislative consultation and no pre-legislative scrutiny of it. We have seen nothing of any debate with the commissions; there has been no suggestion of any demand for such a change and there has been no pre-discussion either with parliamentarians or the political parties, unless within the governing party itself.
Secondly, it is surely clear to the Committee that what happened last time was ample demonstration of the importance of parliamentary oversight to issues that might appear to be merely implementary, but in fact are constitutionally important. The coalition Government decided to reduce the size of the House of Commons to 600, with no reason given for that number. At the same time, they were increasing the size of this House with more unelected politicians. No rationale was given for the number 600 and no account was taken of its implication for Scottish and Welsh seats, or for those in rural or geographically challenged areas. Unsurprisingly, it was, in effect, rejected by the House of Commons. Without that ability of Parliament to have the final say, we would today have only 600 MPs, perhaps with 50 former MPs becoming Peers in compensation. It is proof positive of the need to take the elected House with you when a Government are suddenly seized with an unsustainable notion.
Thirdly, it will be clear from other amendments tabled for today that there is some distrust about the proposed procedure and the ability of the Executive to retain an influence, which under the Bill they will still have, either by the timing of the Order in Council or by the composition of the Boundary Commissions. We might note, therefore, the amendments to be moved by the noble Lords, Lord Cormack and Lord Young of Cookham, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, which we will deal with later.
Furthermore, although our Constitution Committee agrees in principle with the change, it particularly said that the proposed automatic implementation of recommendations of the Boundary Commissions will protect against undue influence only if they are genuinely independent. The committee therefore suggests that the House consider safeguards to ensure the independence and impartiality of the Boundary Commissions and their recommendations. We will come to specific proposals on this later, but the themes underlying this resonate with Amendments 1, 2, 5 to 9, and 12. In other words, both the Constitution Committee and these other amendments are in fact all part of a piece, that the Government—perhaps especially this Government—are capable of a certain flexibility when it comes to decisions that they might seek to influence. Their appointment of their friends—Tony Abbott or others whom I will mention in another group later—or the removal of those whose advice they do not like, and here I cite a swathe of Permanent Secretaries, in addition to the sad loss today of the head of the legal service, indicate a willingness to use subtle pressure to get what they want, or less than subtle pressure, as we witnessed over the attempted Prorogation, the threat to judicial review, and basically the attempt to sideline any whose advice or decisions get in their way. We do, therefore, have a concern that without absolute, very solid safeguards, the ability remains with the Government and not with Parliament.
Fourthly and lastly, there is a vital issue about the role of Parliament vis-à-vis that of a quango. I hear what our Constitution Committee says on that matter, and about the exclusion of Parliament. However, this is about the Executive vis-à-vis Parliament. It is about the Government removing a democratic backstop to an issue where decisions are not black and white but involve judgments, and—vitally—affect communities, devolution and regionalism. These are choices which Parliament cannot shrug off to unaccountable appointees, who may, as the Constitution Committee suggests, be looking to their reappointment.
In brief, we do not need this change. It was not requested; it has not been discussed; and it removes an important backstop role from Parliament. I beg to move.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 2. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate.
Amendment 2
Finance Bill
Baroness Garden of Frognal ExcerptsFriday 17th July 2020
(3 years, 9 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Finance Act 2020 View all Finance Act 2020 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 2 July 2020 - (2 Jul 2020)
Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]
My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord Bourne. Coronavirus is the biggest crisis of our generation and I recognise that the Government have provided constructive financial solutions to address the many emergency economic pressures. They have protected health and the economy with the furlough and measures to help the self-employed, providing many families with some relief, even though millions have faced incredible hardship and had to rely on paltry universal credit and food banks. Countless community efforts have provided families with basic sustenance. I pay tribute to many restaurateurs, including the 5,000 Bangladesh Caterers Association UK members whose earnings have dropped by 90%. Many are finding it impossible to navigate bank loans and other measures. What assessment have the Government made—
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
Lady Uddin, we seem to have lost you. Are you there?
Baroness Uddin [V]
Sorry, I do not know what happened. What assessment have the Government made of the inevitable effect of withdrawing the furlough scheme and Self-employment Income Support Scheme on levels of unemployment, particularly in SMEs including the curry industry?
As the Bill includes no measures focused on increasing employment, could the Minister outline how the Government intend to address this worrying trend, particularly among women, who are often in low-paid, part-time jobs and have been exceptionally affected during this lockdown? Muslim women-led organisations are deeply concerned about the well-being of their members. What actions will the Government take to ensure that Muslim women, among other minorities, do not become further isolated and more permanently out of the job market?
According to the Government’s Social Mobility Commission, 600,000 more children are now living in relative poverty than in 2012. Their plight will be further exacerbated by benefit changes and coronavirus, with 45% from minority communities more likely to live in poverty in comparison to 26% of their white neighbours. Does this period, the most challenging in terms of addressing poverty and social injustice, warrant an equal and absolute commitment to redress the effects of social injustice and prejudice, as well as class, race and faith discriminations? What impact assessment has been made of the Bill on child poverty and the well-being of vulnerable families and people with disabilities and autism in those communities which have excessively experienced hardship?
I welcome the kick-start scheme and the guarantee of apprenticeships for those leaving care. Can this be extended to the 465,000 young people who would not currently be in line to participate in any apprenticeship? Speaking as a witness to the Canary Wharf development and the remaining disconnect with lack of employment opportunities—
The Deputy Speaker
The noble Baroness’s time is up. I call the noble Lord, Lord Addington.
EU: Future Relationship
Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord True
My Lords, we have published a framework text to assist the negotiations on fisheries. It is based on precedent, but arrangements obviously will differ, as it is usual for those sorts of agreements to be tailored to the specific fisheries interests of the coastal states. That will be so in this case.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
Lord Morris of Aberavon? He does not seem to be there so I will move on.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, I congratulate David Frost on reaching out to member states and remind him of the wise words of his late namesake, Sir David Frost, who said:
“Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your way.”
Will the Government encourage Mr Frost to stand up for British values for the benefit of this country, and not just to think about the economy?
I must raise the arbitrary dismissal of Eleanor Sharpston, the British advocate-general at the European Court of Justice. She was sent packing before her term ended, even though her post is not attached to UK membership. If you sack a member of the court, judicial independence is meaningless. This is not a court that we can remain subject to. I hope the Government will make representations on behalf of Eleanor Sharpston.
The Deputy Speaker
My Lords, I apologise to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, and the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, but the time allocated for the Statement is now up. The day’s Virtual Proceedings are complete and are adjourned.
Census (England and Wales) Order 2020
Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts(3 years, 12 months ago)
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The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, the Virtual Proceedings on this Motion are now complete. The Virtual Proceedings will now adjourn until 2.45 pm for the Motions in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bethell.
House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]
Baroness Garden of Frognal ExcerptsFriday 15th March 2019
(5 years, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL] 2017-19 View all House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL] 2017-19 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: HL Bill 144-I(a) Amendment for Report, supplementary to the marshalled list (PDF) - (14 Mar 2019)
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
My Lords, I have to read this very slowly. I am instructed by order of the House to say that the Motion “That the Question be now put” is considered to be a most exceptional procedure and the House will not accept it save in circumstances where it is felt to be the only means of ensuring the proper conduct of the business of the House. Further, if a noble Lord who seeks to move it persists in his intention, the practice of the House is that the Question on the Motion is put without debate. Does the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, wish to pursue his question?