Horizon Europe

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind words about the CEO of ARIA and completely associate myself with them. He makes an important point: we have many collaborations with other scientists across the world. We think that this is very valuable and we want to build on it, but there are many scientific institutions in the EU with which we would also like to co-operate through association to Horizon. Of course, we will look at alternatives and will certainly work with alternatives in other parts of the world.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, subjects such as maths are crucial in ensuring that the UK achieves the Government’s ambition of becoming a science and technology superpower. The Minister has outlined a UK programme but that will not have the power of Horizon in collaborating internationally. How can we ensure that the UK remains attractive as a place for STEM experts to move to and work in, if our reputation and scientific capability suffer due to a lack of association with Horizon?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The main attraction of the UK in terms of collaboration with other parts of the world is our world-leading scientific community—which is why it happens now. We have a number of the best universities and researchers in the world. We are very proud that there are many people of other nationalities who want to come to the UK to continue their research programmes, and we have a considerable investment programme to enable that to happen. We want all that to continue and we will build on that, but we also want to work with our European colleagues, which is why we want to associate to Horizon Europe.

Low-Income Families: Energy Cost Support

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure that pawnbrokers have necessarily arisen just under this Government. However, I totally accept the general point the noble Lord is making: there are many people—actually, on all income levels—who are suffering because of this crisis, which we all know was caused ultimately by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. This is a difficult problem, and there are no simple and easy answers. All the potential solutions are very expensive and need to be looked at closely, and I am sure that the PM will do that.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

Can the Minister please confirm that the Government are still intending to give £400 to all households, regardless of their income, and two or three times that amount if they happen to own two or three properties? Why are they not redistributing that money to those who really need it?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Yes, that is the intention. Again, the reasons for it are long and complex, as I just explained to the noble Baroness. By far the largest package of the support measures that were announced is in fact going to those on the lowest income. Having said that, there is a recognition that those who do not necessarily rely on benefits and are not on the lowest income—perhaps what is referred to as the “just about managing”—are also suffering and deserve some help. It is very difficult with current policies to target support directly at those people. We wanted to get the support out as quickly as possible, and that is the reason why one element of the package was universal—to ensure that support goes to those “just about managing” as well. However, as I said, the majority of the package is targeted at those on the lowest incomes—which is correct.

Winter Heating Initiatives

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a powerful point. I point to the public sector decarbonisation scheme, for which I am responsible, which has already rolled out billions of pounds’ worth of improvements to all our public buildings to help make them more energy efficient.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, £400 to households is surely a profound waste of public money since a lot of it is going to people who really do not need it. Why can the Government not target the money more closely at people who truly need it?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I look forward to seeing the Liberal Democrats campaigning on taking away from people money that has been allocated. It is a universal payment but of course there are considerable extra funds that have been closely targeted. There are shortages and problems across the economy. That is one part of the package but there are many other parts of the package directed at those most in need.

Horizon Europe

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not know if the noble Baroness was listening to the replies that I gave but the Treasury is fully committed to the £6.8 billion announced in the spending review. The Government remain keen to get on with this and associate to Horizon Europe if we can, but we are putting in place alternatives that will be just as effective in terms of international co-operation. We will spend similar amounts of money.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

UK participation in Horizon Europe has been of immeasurable benefit to our researchers but, because of their calibre, it has also been of immeasurable benefit to our one-time EU partners. Producing our own scheme will not be the same. What efforts are the Government putting into negotiations to ensure that we can continue to participate in Horizon to our benefit and that of our Horizon partners, too?

Carers: Unpaid Leave

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The business managers would point out that it probably takes a lot more than a day to deliver important legislation such as this, which includes going through the proper and appropriate scrutiny and procedures. My noble friend has been critical of me in the past when we have brought forward emergency legislation without the appropriate scrutiny.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, if parliamentary time is really the problem, I suggest to the Minister that we scrap the rest of the Schools Bill —which is being trashed from all sides, not least from his own Benches—to give us at least another two and half days in which to debate this important measure.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is asking me questions that are way above my pay grade.

Horizon Europe

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord asks a very good question. I know that the Minister for Science has had productive discussions with the Swiss on that. They have an extremely good, advanced and able scientific programme, and we will be looking to step up our co-operation with Switzerland.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, in headier days the Government assured us that Brexit would not mean leaving either Erasmus or Horizon. One is tempted to ask what went wrong, because it certainly is not all the EU’s fault. If the Government have an alternative, why can they not start spending now?

Mathematical Sciences

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I confess that I am not familiar with that legislation but I thank the noble and gallant Lord for his update. We have an excellent record on mathematics tuition and one of the best records in the world on advanced research papers, as shown by the number that have originated in the UK. It is an important area and we are doing well, but I am sure that we could always do better.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, leading on from the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Davies, the leading figures in four mathematical societies are all women: the president of the London Mathematical Society, the vice-president of the Edinburgh Mathematical Society, the chair of the Centre for Mathematical Sciences and the president—and three of the four vice-presidents —of the Royal Statistical Society. As the noble Lord says, however, this is not reflected in the number of female applicants across A-level and degree level. Maths should be fun. What are the Government doing to make it fun for women and girls—and, indeed, for boys and men too?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think boys like fun as much as girls do—sometimes even together. I am delighted to hear about all the excellent leading women who are in top-level positions. We, as the males in this world, will clearly have to do better to compete with their excellent record.

Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 22nd November 2021 Grand Committee

[Noble Lords]

No!

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

I think the noble Viscount is trying to say that he is not moving Amendment 31A. Am I correct?

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

Yes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have brought forward Amendments 35, 36, 44, 45, 46 and 48 in response to your Lordships’ Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s report on the Bill. I take this opportunity to thank the committee very much for its careful consideration of the Bill and the important scrutiny it has provided. One of its recommendations was that the power to make consequential provision currently contained in Clause 10 is too broad and should be omitted. I have reflected on the committee’s position and consequently given notice of my intention to oppose the Question that Clause 10 stand part of the Bill. Amendment 36 would introduce a much narrower and more specific power to make consequential amendments into Clause 8—the only remaining place it would be required.

So I will start by saying that the power to dissolve ARIA through draft affirmative regulations made under Clause 8 is, I believe, an important part of the Bill. Although the DPRRC also raised concerns about this power, there is a strong policy rationale and a clear precedent for this particular delegation of power. As the power can be exercised only 10 years after the Bill receives Royal Assent, I hope that that will give your Lordships sufficient indication of our long-term commitment to ARIA. We have clearly heard that patience will be essential if ARIA is to successfully pursue its most ambitious research and innovation. It must therefore have the opportunity to prove itself before it is judged. I therefore welcome the Commons Science and Technology Committee’s recognition in its report into ARIA that

“these projects will take a long time, potentially 10-15 years, to ‘bear fruit’”.

In terms of precedent, under powers set out in the Public Bodies Act 2011, several bodies established by primary legislation have been dissolved using secondary legislation. The Administrative Justice and Tribunals Council, for example, was created by the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 and abolished using powers in the Public Bodies Act in 2013. I of course recognise that the super-affirmative procedure was applied in such instances, but in that particular case this was appropriate in the context of much broader powers. The Public Bodies Act gave Ministers delegated powers not just to abolish bodies but to merge them or change their governance structure and functions. This was also in the context of widespread public body reform, and it was therefore appropriate that the use of the powers was subject to a higher level of scrutiny.

In contrast, the power in Clause 8 is narrow, such that ARIA can only be dissolved. It cannot be merged or have its functions or governance changed in any way, as set out in my response to the DPRRC last week. I hope I have therefore provided sufficient reassurances that this power is justified.

I turn to the revised power to make consequential provision that Amendment 36 introduces. The first thing to say is that consequential provision could now be made in consequence of regulations made only under Clause 8, rather than any provision of the Bill, which represents a substantial narrowing of the previous power contained in Clause 10, which I will oppose.

The second point to emphasise is that, as a result, the power could be exercised only on one occasion, obviously. ARIA can be dissolved only once, and there would be a single opportunity to make consequential amendments in this way. However, ARIA could not be dissolved for at least 10 years, so at least 10 years’ worth of legislation will be passed or made before the power to make consequential amendments could be exercised. It is likely that there will be references to ARIA in those 10 years of future legislation. This amendment extends the power to make consequential amendments to legislation whenever passed or made, so references to ARIA that might appear in future can be removed, leaving a tidy and orderly statute book. I hope that all noble Lords agree that this is a sensible approach.

The final point to make here is that, as a result of this change to the power to make consequential provision, minor and technical changes to other parts of the Bill are required. Amendments 35, 44, 45, 46 and 48 to Clauses 8(4)(e), 11, 12 and 14 fall into that category. These correct the Clause 8 provisions and those on regulations, interpretation and commencement to reflect the replacement of Clause 10. They are consequential on that substantive change and are therefore necessary.

I hope that noble Lords will take a similar view and recognise that, in bringing forward these amendments, we are both taking the right approach and demonstrating the Government’s commitment to engage with and act on the DPRRC’s recommendations. I therefore beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

I draw your Lordships’ attention to the fact that, in this group, government Amendments 44, 45, 46 and 48 do not appear as government amendments on the printed list.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s comments. Without sounding whiny, this would have benefited from a “Dear colleagues” letter in advance. It caused me a little head scratching over the weekend when I was trying to fathom the purpose of these amendments, which the Minister has now told us. I guess it kept me busy.

We are delighted that the Government have accepted one of the two recommendations of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I am speaking to oppose the Question that Clause 8 stand part of the Bill. As the Minister referred to, this is the other recommendation of the DPRRC. That committee was clear in its assessment of the Bill:

“Although ARIA is to be created by Act of Parliament, clause 8 allows Ministers to dissolve it by an affirmative statutory instrument. They cannot do so for another ten years and they must consult ARIA before doing so. They do not have to offer any reasons.”


The DPRRC continues:

“We object to this on principle. If Parliament creates a body, it should be for Parliament to dissolve the body. It should not be for Ministers to dissolve it by statutory instrument, even an affirmative instrument.”


The DPRRC could not be clearer. The Minister’s response to that was simply that he did not agree. We knew he would not agree, but this is a very influential committee and what it says matters.

Although I am calling for Clause 8 not to stand part of the Bill, there are parts of that clause that the Government might want to salvage. This gives the Government an opportunity to come back, perhaps with another lengthy set of amendments on Report. It is a chance for the Minister to accept the view of this influential committee, just as he has on Clause 10.

The Minister will point to the fact that this statutory instrument is affirmative, but he will do so knowing that this is a poor alternative. The dissolution of ARIA will throw up issues—not the sort of issues faced by the organisation that the Minister chose to use as an example of one which a statutory instrument has been used to dissolve in the past. For example, when and if ARIA comes to be dissolved, the fate of assets will be crucial. By then, the taxpayer will probably have poured billions of pounds into creating those assets. Parliament needs a say on how they will be allocated in future yet, as we know, statutory instruments are unamendable—take it or leave it. As I have often rehearsed on other Bills, your Lordships’ House virtually always takes them, sometimes with a touch of regret, but takes them none the less. Primary legislation, however, is amendable. It gives Parliament a role in deciding the fate of the organisation and these assets, which, I remind the Government, the taxpayers have created through their investment. That is just one of the recommendations of the DPRRC. It should be honoured. I beg to move.

Republic of Cameroon: Economic Partnership Agreement

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Tuesday 29th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, the seriousness of the situation in Cameroon urgently demands a road to peace. Any form of general instability, upsurges in violence or atrocities in Africa’s central belt, now stretching into northern Mozambique, could create a correlation between abuses by separatists and government forces, which are accused of killing with impunity, and African jihadist terrorist groups turning Cameroon into a fertile recruiting ground.

While western inertia is worrying, positive engagement between the UN special representative and the Government of Cameroon is of course helpful. Judging by the UN Security Council’s briefing on 7 June, both Russia and China have reiterated their position that this is an internal matter, expressing confidence that Yaoundé can manage. The record suggests otherwise.

Encouragingly, however, the US now appears to be leading on pressurising for peace. Although predominantly francophone, Cameroon is an equal member of the Commonwealth, but it was the anglo content that was the driver for admittance. The Commonwealth ASG recently underlined to us a recognition that it wants to do more but is hindered by the Covid situation. Will the Minister encourage the Commonwealth to follow through on this matter of the utmost urgency, updating us today on this and the latest considerations of the OAU?

Government should also place the anomalies of Cameroon high on the list of French bilateral considerations and address the perception of having largely ignored the situation over a long period. London and Paris—which has more influence on Yaoundé than we do—must rub their minds together to bring urgent resolutions to these atrocities. Franco-Cameroonian relations run deep, with multifaceted security co-operation. However, as with the FCDO, little is heard from the Quai d’Orsay, although it responds to debates in the Assemblée Nationale, setting out sizable budgetary allocations to include security and decentralisation.

Today is the opportunity to be informed of the strategy of the UK Government. We owe it to anglo Cameroon, which was let down from the start. The French Foreign Minister recently noted that a whole generation has been sacrificed, that targeted sanctions of asset freezes and travel bans for both sides should be advanced and that an unstable Cameroon is bad for the whole region. I would add to the mix any sanctions that might focus on the development of Cameroon’s offshore gas deposits, particularly the use of LNG facilities in Equatorial Guinea.

During a recent parliamentary Session, the French Government addressed the anglophone crisis, with one deputy accusing the Government of supporting the dictatorial regime of President Biya. He is quoted as saying:

“The French postcolonial denial is very worrying and these old methods of Francafrique lead us into the wall vis-à-vis Africa and Europe”.


He added that it is very worrying for France to remain silent about pertinent issues in Africa, and intimated that the UK has the same historical responsibility.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, has withdrawn, so I now call the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, although I disagree with him entirely about the impact of trade historically and in the present day. I quote Professor Patrick Greiner from Vanderbilt University:

“Since … the 1400s, problems of resource scarcity have been managed through colonial conquest and economic integration. These approaches impoverished Global South nations, robbing them of their natural wealth … The result has been development in the Global North, destabilization and impoverishment in much of the Global South and climate change for all.”


I thank both noble Lords for securing this debate and offer the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, the Green group’s support for his regret Motion, which addresses human rights abuses specifically. I would say that the political structures that have arisen and allowed this to be are long-term colonial and post-colonial relationships.

The world has agreed to the sustainable development goals, which imagine a different kind of future and interrelationship. I do not think that these two agreements meet or follow that SDG approach. The Government’s own assessment in both these reports refers very narrowly to a different 2015 rapid evidence assessment of the impact of trade between developed and developing nations. The conclusion is that it did

“not provide conclusive guidance on the overall impact … due to a few significant gaps in coverage, particularly regarding the revenue, distributional and social/environmental effects of FTAs.”

To take a quick glance at what trade has done in Ghana and Cameroon, I turn to a World Health Organization report that talks about a tsunami of electronic waste being imported into Ghana and notes:

“A child who eats just one chicken egg from Agbogbloshie, a waste site in Ghana, will absorb 220 times the European Food Safety Authority daily limit for intake of chlorinated dioxins.”


The noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, referred to the environmental riches of Cameroon. The east and south were once heavily forested, with ebony, sapele and African cherry, among others. A lot of that has gone to musical instruments. Both Cameroon and Ghana have huge deforestation, relating particularly to what is known in Ghana as “galamsey”—craft informal mining, particularly for gold. Among tropical countries, Ghana has suffered among the highest levels of deforestation. There are now 1.6 million hectares of forest in Ghana, down from 8.2 million hectares in 1900.

We are talking about doing more trade on the old kind of terms. We have seen the impacts. Let us stop doing the same things and getting the same results.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The noble Lord, Lord Hannan of Kingsclere, has withdrawn, so I now call the noble Lord, Lord Hannay of Chiswick.

Professional Qualifications Bill [HL]

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the issue on which I speak will be brief and parallels what I said earlier on Clause 13. It is important to keep this Bill as defined as possible. This amendment tries to do that by forcing the Government to explain why the relatively simple issues on Wales cannot be dealt with in the Bill. If there is a real need for the consent of Ministers of the Crown for Welsh Ministers to exercise powers, can a reason be given?

As the Minister knows from her own experience, the Welsh devolution settlement is extremely complicated, and all this part of the Bill does is make it even more complicated again. I can see no reason why the consent of Ministers of the Crown is required for just two regulators in Wales. Therefore, if there is no real need for these powers, this clause should not be in the Bill. Otherwise, I entirely agree with what has been said by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and my noble friend Lady Finlay of Llandaff. I hope the Government can explain why this clause is needed and, if there is no satisfactory explanation, remove it.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, in the face of such Welsh expertise, I rise apprehensively as an Englishwoman to add my support to the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, and my noble friend Lady Randerson, and to support Wales and the Welsh Assembly. We all recognise that the Scottish Parliament, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Welsh Assembly have different powers, remits and terms of reference. However, it seems strange that the Welsh Assembly is the only one to require the consent of a Minister of the Crown before being able to act, whereas the others do not. If devolution is truly to mean that the different nations have mastery over their countries, this surely cannot be necessary. The noble Baroness has already pointed out that Wales has prestigious bodies which could undertake these tasks.