Agriculture Bill

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansarad) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansarad): House of Lords
Tuesday 7th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Marlesford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a Suffolk farmer. It must be a matter of real regret that the Second Reading of this important Bill was, in effect, guillotined. Only six hours were allocated for that debate, meaning that some 65 of the 90 Members who wished to speak were able to do so—and they had only four minutes each. Frankly, if there had been another two hours at least the other 30 Members could have been heard.

I am glad that we have my noble friend Lord Gardiner to shepherd us through what will be a complicated and controversial Bill, with this mass of amendments. He is one of the two finest Agriculture Ministers that we have had in the 29 years that I have been a Member of your Lordships’ House, the other being the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, who sorted out the shambles with the Rural Payments Agency, which his predecessors had failed to do. Although I was not one of the lucky ones to speak at Second Reading, I have, of course, read the whole of the debate. This first group of amendments covers a wide spectrum, so I make no apology for focusing on the context in which they should be considered.

The move from the confines of the EU’s CAP is a moment of both opportunity and danger. We should remember that the three objectives when the CAP was first established back in 1962 have not lost their relevance today. They were market unity, protection of that market and the need for financial stability in rural communities. The late Lord Cockfield, who I think was the United Kingdom’s second Commissioner in Brussels, used to describe the CAP as the marriage contract for Europe between France and Germany. France would accept German manufactures and Germany would look after French farmers. Both countries flourished in this marriage: German manufacturers came to dominate Europe, while France led Europe with a highly efficient and constantly modernising agricultural system.

Agriculture has, over the decades, been subjected to huge pressures and swings between prosperity and depression. Much can be learned by following the price of wheat. It had been at dangerously high levels, causing much social distress, in the first half of the 19th century. During the Napoleonic wars it reached £28 a ton, without allowing for inflation. That price was not reached again until 1953. Those high prices were of course helped by the 30 years of protection under the corn laws. After the American Civil War and the railways opening up corn-growing in the Midwest, a great agricultural recession reached Europe by about 1870, with wheat prices reaching as low as £5 a ton by 1894. After a revival to £15 during the First World War, there was another major agricultural depression during the 1930s, already referred to this afternoon, when wheat went back to £6 a ton. After a revival of output during World War II, there was a prolonged period of agricultural prosperity.

Farming has become hugely dependent on the common agricultural policy which, for many medium-sized farms, comes to an average of 70% of any taxable profit. In some years, it is well over 100%, but it is seldom under 35%. The idea that agricultural production can be sustained if a large proportion of this money is—[Inaudible] —schemes is high risk, as far as any sustainability of the food supply is concerned. That is why the basic concept of a Bill that says that public money is payable for public good only, and that food production is not a public good, is dangerous thinking, not just for farming, but for the whole rural economy. Above all—[Inaudible]—must be protected not by tariffs—[Inaudible]—food production or imported food—[Inaudible.]

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) [V]]

The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, has described why it is essential that, although agriculture is devolved, financial support decisions intersect to affect all the UK. Wales has led the way with its legislation to look at the future generations principle, as set out by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford. We must also look to future generations in this legislation, recognising all partners in the legacy of the land and all it produces. The infrastructure to recognise this in practice must be in place.

The approach of the Government, in listening to Wales, has resulted in government amendments that Wales requested and I support. Collaborative working needs to be locked into a framework carried forward for future generations through clear financial arrangements that recognise diversity across the UK. Less favoured areas must be supported, as described by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, because support for variation in activities in farming results in far wider support to the economy in these areas. Devolution requires co-operation, and I hope that we will pursue Amendment 66 further.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

Rather unusually, my Lords, I speak not to support an amendment but to oppose some. I live in Devon, owned Dartmoor ponies and share the concerns of the Dartmoor Pony Society and other Dartmoor groups about some of the amendments to Part 1 on financial assistance. These groups have no criticism of the present clauses and the financial assistance proposed is much welcome. We are concerned, because the amendments should not be accepted. There are two in the first group about which I wish to speak, Amendments 17 and 27.

The effect of these amendments is either to exclude or to reduce the preservation of the semi-wild ponies on Dartmoor. Amendment 17 does not include native ponies, because the definition of wildlife does not include it, so there is a problem with using “conserves”. Amendment 27, by leaving out “native livestock” and “native”, would completely exclude the semi-wild Dartmoor ponies, which are such an iconic part of Devon and English heritage. I therefore hope that these two amendments are not accepted.

Agriculture Bill

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2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 10th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) [V]]

My Lords, this Bill is silent on pesticides and herbicides, yet they are toxic to insects and wildlife. Some may prove carcinogenic, even at a very low dose, and the current regulations on these chemicals need to tighten, not lapse. Several noble Lords have addressed the urgency of this and said that we must value high-quality, ethically farmed UK food. Maintaining current standards and practices will not be enough.

Focusing on issues pertinent to Wales, I thank the Minister and his department for working with the Welsh Government to add to the Bill the powers requested to introduce an agriculture Wales Bill in the next Session. It will allow continuity of support for Welsh farmers and the effective functioning of the UK single market going forward. It will include powers to simplify or improve the basic payment scheme to farmers beyond 2020 and to modify retained direct EU legislation on the financing, management and monitoring of the common agricultural policy and support for rural development.

Schedule 5 to the Bill, the Welsh schedule, will enable Wales’ animal health and welfare framework to be supported by legislation. The framework is based on “prevention is better than cure”, with health improvements through the vet and farm plan that promotes joint working for animal welfare, linked to planned maintenance. The agriculture Wales Bill will echo the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act, with awareness of Wales’ global responsibilities, such as through the network of antibiotic champions to decrease antibiotic use.

The intention behind Clause 27 is to counteract unfair trading practices and to prevent market abuse—that is, larger players in the market exploiting those in relatively weak market positions. However, if this is a reserved power, there must be consent from the Welsh Government because those powers intersect with devolved matters for Wales, including agriculture and agricultural productivity and sustainability. Can the Minister confirm that the Government will strengthen the requirement to engage with the Welsh Government by amendment, as required in the legislative consent Motion, which my noble and learned friend Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd and I support? My noble and learned friend, being unable to speak today, has written to the Minister asking when the draft common framework on agriculture will be available and whether it will contain a dispute resolution mechanism. The UK internal market must function appropriately, enabling the devolved Governments to determine matters such as standards and subsidies.

Although the Explanatory Memorandum recognises that organic production is a devolved competence, the Secretary of State seems to be able to legislate on organics. This confusion needs clarifying by amendment to ensure that the Secretary of State can make organic production regulations falling within devolved competence only with the prior consent of Welsh Ministers.

Regarding the World Trade Organization Agreement on Agriculture, there remains disagreement between the UK Government and the Welsh Government on whether the WTO clause is wholly reserved. Can the Minister confirm that a bilateral agreement has been reached to require the UK Government to consult the devolved Administrations before bringing forward regulations under this power?

Subject to amendments ensuring consultation and such a framework, I hope we can support the Bill.

Direct Payments to Farmers (Crop Diversification Derogation) (England) Regulations 2020

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Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, with a list of this length and such quick speeches, it is not surprising that many of the points I wanted to make have been covered. But I reiterate the point made my noble friends Lady Parminter and Lady Northover: the idea of public money for public good should not be lost.

Diversity in farming has been seen as a good thing; it allows you to hedge your bets. The document in front of us suggests that we can do without diversity because of extreme conditions. Anybody who travelled around the countryside when we were still travelling—my normal journey was through the Thames Valley—will have seen fields under water for months. It is therefore understandable to make certain changes to our support system, but, following on from the point of the noble Earl, Lord Devon, I once again ask: where is the science to back up this decision? We should know that, so that future public debate can be enhanced.

We are trying to change the way we support our farmers to try to avoid the countryside either becoming a monoculture or simply not being used. If we are trying to make sure that it is used for the benefit of the whole of society—not only by providing food but by providing a better environment, and indeed leisure facilities for us—we need to know the grounds on which certain decisions and funding will be changed. Will the Minister take this opportunity to at least set out the grounds on which the changes to any existing regulations will take place and what precedent has been set? Will he give us a better idea of what we can expect, given what look to be increasingly volatile environmental and weather systems over the next few years?

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Finlay of Llandaff) (CB)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Falkner of Margravine, has scratched from the list. I therefore call the noble Earl, Lord Shrewsbury.

--- Later in debate ---

Motion agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker]

My Lords, the Virtual Proceedings will now adjourn until a convenient point after 2.30 pm for the Virtual Committee.

Air Quality

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Tuesday 28th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, obviously this is a matter on which we have to collaborate and we are, with both the Department of Health and the Department for Transport. Another issue for collaboration is that there are times when half the air pollution in this country comes from abroad. I suspect we send some to them. This is why international collaboration is also very important.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister spoke about working with local authorities. Will he be a little more specific about what the Government may outline for local authorities that have schools in very high traffic pollution areas, some of them with playing fields underneath motorway flyover areas?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this is very important. The City of Westminster, for example, is concentrating on stopping idling engines outside schools. This is also an area where, under the Environment Act 1995, local authorities have duties to review and assess local air quality. There are provisions around schools, so this should and can be addressed.

Air Quality

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Monday 24th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords I do not think that the facts bear out what the noble Baroness said. In fact, it was during a Government in which her party was in coalition that £2 billion of taxpayers’ money was diverted: £400 million for ultra-low-emission vehicles, £600 million for the local sustainable transport fund, £224 million invested in cycling and more than £27 million since 2013 to retrofit and clean up more than 3,000 of the oldest vehicles. I hope that she would agree that that was a success during the time that her party was in coalition with mine. That is why £2 billion was diverted to that important subject.

On the question of how we will proceed, as I said, this is a short delay in the timetable, because we have purdah requirements. That is the advice that I have received. I fully acknowledge that this is a public health issue. That is one reason why considerable sums of money are being invested in it, why we will continue to do so and why we in the department very much want to bring forward these plans after the general election.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Has the public health issue been part of the submission to the courts, because as well as adults, there is now strong evidence that atmospheric pollution impairs the development and growth of children’s lungs, which means that you are storing up big problems into the next generation? What have the Government done to ensure that enforcement powers are used when vehicles on the road are belching out pollutants because they have not been properly serviced or there is a fault? Quite a lot of them could be deemed as in the public service, including taxis, buses, and so on. Sometimes they are belching out vast quantities of grey, stinking smoke.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I thank the noble Baroness because that plays into why retrofitting is so important, why there has been investment since 2013 of £27 million to retrofit and clean up 3,000 of the oldest vehicles and why we have sought to introduce low-emission buses, taxis and alternative fuels. As I said, this is a very important issue which will need a partnership of us all, whether local authorities, the devolved Administrations, the Mayor of London or us, to mitigate. I have found it interesting how small features—the changing of a traffic light or turning engines off—can change pollution levels and create considerable advances.

Air Quality

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Wednesday 24th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

I cannot, my Lords, but I can say that the critical issue for achieving the EU targets is principally in the area of diesel vehicles.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

Given that poor air quality and particulate matter during pregnancy and for newborns in particular is known to increase the susceptibility to allergic disease later on in life, what work is being done to plot air quality with the use of health services by those who have severe allergic diseases and to plot the cost to the NHS of that air pollution?

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, I cannot answer the noble Baroness specifically. I will, if I may, write to her. I can confirm that in general terms we agree with her. Air pollution, particularly diesel emissions, as I have just mentioned, can be extremely harmful to health generally. It can aggravate existing heart and lung conditions, and better awareness of the health impacts from air pollution is important for the public so that we all know what we can do to protect ourselves.

Environment: Litter and Waste

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Wednesday 7th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

My Lords, are the Government giving consideration to the decision taken by the Welsh Government to charge for plastic bags from 1 October, to encourage the reuse of bags and of good old-fashioned shopping bags?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I have not always been the greatest fan of devolution but one of its great advantages is that we can profit from lessons learnt in other countries. We will certainly look carefully at what they are doing in Wales and keep an eye on that. The noble Baroness is quite right to talk about what she referred to as “good, old-fashioned shopping bags” or the bags made available by supermarkets at a cost to encourage reuse of them. Often the problem with those is that one ends up buying too many. I have a very large stack of those bags at home waiting to be reused.

Public Bodies Bill [HL]

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Wednesday 9th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sanderson of Bowden]

My Lords, I had not intended to take part in this debate because I come from Scotland. However, I was encouraged by the noble Lord, Lord Nickson, putting his foot in the water. I appeal to the Minister, whom I know from times past has had a very successful time in party politics, to think very carefully before he jumps into this deep water. I remember only too well the times when Lord Whitelaw was dealing with this very tricky issue. Something about Lord Whitelaw that we all appreciated was that he would say: “Hold on a minute, let us see what the outcome is going to be. If there is a real case to be answered, let us hear it”. He heard it and took his decision thereafter—and persuaded the Prime Minister, Mrs Thatcher, to take the same view. I urge the Minister, in the words of the Scottish anthem, “tae think again”.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

My Lords, I will speak briefly. The history and complexities of the issue have been eloquently outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris, and by others. As a non-Welsh-speaking person who adores living in Wales, I impress on the Minister that this goes beyond language. It concerns the cohesiveness of the people living in Wales. I watch S4C. I do not understand all the language but I love some of the programmes. They provide a unique opportunity for people to start and develop their careers. They provide a sense of community and society that you do not get in any other television broadcast in the UK. There is something quite special in the depth of the culture that comes through, which is far beyond language. My concern is that if we look only at the language, we will miss some of the essence of the feelings expressed in this debate.

[Baroness Gale]

My Lords, it gives me great pleasure to speak in the debate. I say to all noble Lords who have taken part a great big diolch yn fawr. I am not a Welsh speaker, unfortunately, and can only say little things like that. However, I am sure that the Minister will appreciate the strength of feeling in the passionate speeches that we heard from so many experienced noble Lords from Wales and elsewhere. It has been good to hear them.

S4C is a unique example of public service broadcasting devoted to representing Wales through the medium of the Welsh language. The status of the language and culture of Wales is of great importance to Welsh speakers and non-Welsh speakers alike. My noble friend Lady Morgan of Ely spoke of the importance of the Welsh language channel for young people.

Food: Labelling

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Monday 1st November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

Are the Government considering using clearer labelling on food that contains nuts, as was recommended by the committee on allergy which I chaired, given the number of cases of anaphylaxis that occur when people are unaware that there is a nut content in food?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I understand that work is being undertaken in this area. I also understand that all packets of nuts have a serious health warning on them saying, “Warning—this packet might contain nuts”, which should be of help to noble Lords as well as to others. More seriously, the noble Baroness makes a very important point, as nut allergies are increasingly common and that needs to be addressed. We need to make sure that any food that contains nuts has the appropriate warning on it.