Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livingston of Parkhead]

I can very much give that assurance. The groups we consult with in the UK and the steering group used by the EU are a mixture of large and small companies, consumer groups and NGOs. That will continue and we are hearing their voices very strongly. It must be understood that TTIP is going to be most beneficial to consumers, who will see lower prices, and to small companies which find the barriers caused by trade distortions far more difficult to cope with than the global multinationals. This will be the first agreement to have a small business chapter and I welcome that very substantially.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

My Lords, I have listened extremely carefully to the Minister. He said that, provided the Government do not wish our National Health Service to be privatised, it will be protected. Can he give a guarantee that all parts of our current Government do not intend, with or without TTIP, further to privatise our National Health Service, because they have already started doing it?

[Lord Livingston of Parkhead]

Decisions regarding the NHS are made by the commissioning authorities. If I recall correctly, substantial privatisation of the health service took place under the previous Government. It will be a matter for the democratically elected Government and the commissioning authorities as to what may be done by private services and what may not.

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Friday 24th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The apology should be from those who leaked the information. I am saying that I am deeply sorry that I saw the information online and that somebody has leaked it. I am deeply grateful that the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, has made it clear to the House that it was not he.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

Did the noble Baroness, the Chief Whip, apologise to my noble friend Lord Bassam for repeating something that she believed to be true which my noble friend has denied?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have made it clear that there would be an apology from me if I had uttered an untruth. I have not uttered an untruth. What I have said is that I am deeply disappointed that anybody should have leaked that letter. The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, has been able to make it clear that it was not he. I am grateful for that because our relationship has been a proper one in the usual channels and will continue to be so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

First, as I said, the Electoral Commission’s advice so far is provisional. Like me, it realises that the actual question will depend to some extent on the circumstances that obtain at the date of the referendum. I do not regard the question as particularly tendentious. The idea that those who are going to vote will not know, at the end of a referendum campaign, whether we are in the Union or out, is perhaps not the most—

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

Did the noble and learned Lord support Alex Salmond on changing the question for the Scottish people? I have listened very carefully, and with respect, to the noble and learned Lord. He appears not to particularly like the question, not to accept the date and not to accept that this is binding on a future Government. I have two questions for him. If he wishes the British people to take on good faith what emerges from here and from Parliament as a whole, surely he would support a better question? Secondly, why is the date in the Bill not during the lifetime of the next Government, given all that has been said about the large amount of work that the Prime Minister says has to be done before the people know the circumstances in which any question would be put?

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

As I said, the only purpose of the Bill, as I see it, is to provide the British people with an assurance that they will have an “in or out” referendum. Indeed, I think my noble friend said that was the principle of the Bill at the beginning. I have very little difficulty with the question as formulated by the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, and would be perfectly happy with it. However, I do not think it is a really definitive question for the referendum itself because that would be much better looked at when, finally, the referendum actually takes place.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard]

My Lords, the amendment would remove the specific 2017 date from the Bill; it would not, of course, remove the insistence in Clause 1(1) that there should be a referendum but would merely leave open the date.

At Second Reading, in my usual low-key, modest, respectable, Cross-Bencher way, I touched on the reasons why I, as a negotiator, thought it unwise to put our negotiators in the forthcoming renegotiation under time pressure by locking them into a 2017 requirement for the successful completion of a renegotiation, which it seems that we will not start until 2015. Reading Hansard and seeing what I said at Second Reading, I am reminded of Warren Hastings in Westminster Hall at his impeachment, standing amazed at his own moderation.

I am struck by the fact that we do not know what it is that we will be renegotiating. We do not know what we want. The noble Lord, Lord Owen, had a point at Second Reading when he suggested that we should start now trying to win friends and influence people on whatever it is we want to achieve. I rather agree, but we do not know what we want to achieve. We have seen three or four hints in recent weeks. We have been told that we may want to scrap free movement of persons, in Article 3 of the treaty, or to have the EU drop its Charter of Fundamental Rights, in Article 6 of the treaty, and resile from the European Convention on Human Rights.

We may want to roll back EU competence in labour and social law and change the single market rules to give Whitehall a veto on EU laws on financial services. Indeed, on that, we have been told that the message for the foreigners is, “Reform or we leave”. All that sounds quite big stuff, involving fairly fundamental issues. Putting it as mildly as I can, I warn the House that all that would take time. Perhaps I should touch very briefly on the timetable for treaty revision.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, will the noble Lord please explain to me—if he is able to—when he uses the term “we may”, which “we” is he talking about? Is he talking about “we” meaning the country, “we” meaning the Government or “we” meaning part of the Government?

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard]

I am sorry; I spoke loosely. I was talking about the Government of the day in the United Kingdom seeking treaty renegotiation.

There are four stages to treaty amendment, and the Conservative Party has argued that renegotiation will end in treaty amendment. It has defined success as treaty amendment. Stage one is that one has to find 14 other member state Governments who agree that one’s proposals for change make sense, or at least that they are worth considering in a convention. You have to have a simple majority.

The second stage would be a convention in which the national Parliaments, the European Parliament, the Commission—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dobbs]

I beg the noble Lord’s pardon, but I do not think that he heard what I said. I said that the date could be changed, but it would have to be for a darned good reason, a reason that the people would accept.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords—

[Lord Dobbs]

We have made a great deal of progress today in this House, and perhaps I could express the serious wish that we should set the objective of getting through Committee today, which would be hugely helpful. That means that I am reluctant to take any more interventions because I am so very close to concluding my remarks on this point. If the noble Baroness insists, of course I will give way.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, the noble Lord said that in order to vary the date from before the end of 2017, there would have to be a good reason. I have listened very carefully and have not heard from the noble Lord one very good reason why that particular date has been chosen. While I am on my feet, I ask the noble Lord not to misrepresent those of us who are committed pro-European Union Members who believe that people should, at the appropriate time, be given a chance to express their point of view in a referendum, by sweeping us all aside as people who do not want to listen to the public.

[Lord Dobbs]

Again, if I have given that impression to the noble Baroness, I apologise, but that has never been my intent in this. We know that some in this House have been playing games about this Bill, and I have gone a long way in accepting that the debate we have just had has been serious, sensible and one that I welcome.

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Friday 10th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

My Lords, I place it on record that those of us who wish to consider this Bill properly are not defying the will of the Commons. Also, at least one noble Lord referred to the fact that by agreeing to a Second Reading, the House would accept the principle of the Bill. That is not true. I accept the conventions and accept that this Bill should have a Second Reading. I also believe that it ought to be revised in many ways. All the issues—such as who votes and when the timing of the vote is right—need to be debated in depth by your Lordships.

If there is to be a referendum, some of the most recent speeches would indicate that there needs to be widespread public explanation and debate about the complementary but differing roles of the Council of Europe and the European Union. Far too many people confuse the two. Among those who are asked about continuing membership of the European Union, many of the replies are actually to do with the Council of Europe and not with the Union. I enjoyed the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, enormously. Of course, all the changes that he thought should, might or would be introduced are already protected under the 2011 Act because they involve revision of treaties.

The most important thing that has been debated is the perception of Britain’s allies in the European Union. In a very minor way, I had experience of that—the noble Lord, Lord Bowness, was present—as a founder member of the Committee of the Regions. The first thing I learnt was that to secure agreement in a pan-European forum one had to speak quietly, build alliances, listen to people’s concerns and consider the needs of northern Europe, central Europe, centralised countries, decentralised countries, small countries and large countries. Our Prime Minister will have to do that to secure any sort of hope of getting agreement to changes. That is a painstaking situation. It is not something secured by grandstanding or throwing down the gauntlet in advance.

Like virtually everyone who has spoken, I believe that aspects of current European Union policy and practice do not always work in the interests of this country. However, to look at the interests of this country in a calm, rational way, one has to have regard to the timing of political events. The Bill looks at the timing of political events in this country. We are not alone in having political events; political events are occurring all the time. I cannot find it in my heart to accept any argument that we here ought to agree that other people will fall into line with our timing, our needs and our wishes just to suit a Bill which has not even got the title of a government Bill.

I am pleased to be speaking towards the end of the debate. I did not expect to be in a meeting discussing the details of Tory manifesto commitments, how they were worked out in the past and they will be worked out in future. I would say that I leave this debate pretty startled. I have heard many subjects repeated, rightfully at length, in your Lordships’ Chamber. I ask those noble Lords who have always fought for the interests of the CBI and the financial status of the City of London: where were you?

G8 Meeting

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The recent tragic events earlier this year in Algeria and Mali showed that different nations have different expertise that they can bring to the table. It is obvious that wherever there are ungoverned spaces, that is where the threat of extremism starts to rise. We have seen that in Mali. The discussions at this G8 will be about how we can harness that expertise from different nations and bring it together to be able to come forward with solutions for these areas which are proving to be extremely challenging.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

Would the Minister care to give an assurance about movement towards the principle of paying a living, fair and minimum wage in those countries which they intend to assist with inward development? Will she tell her colleagues that some of us despair about the way the Government are tackling the results of many major companies—this has been referred to today—which fail to pay a living wage to their employees and the governments cut the benefits? There are companies that do not pay their tax and the benefits of their employees are being cut by the government, but in fact the fault lies with the multinational companies.

[Baroness Warsi]

I repeat to the noble Baroness the point I made at the outset. If these companies are not paying tax off the back of their profits, it means that developed nations and developing nations cannot provide the public services and support that is needed. It will be a key part of what we are doing at the G8 to say to companies, “You have to be transparent about who owns you, about where you are owned and about the tax you are paying”, because it cannot be right. I do not know whether noble Lords saw the fantastic article in Prospect, but apparently Jersey is now the world’s largest exporter of bananas. We know that that is not true and we need to get behind that.

Russian Federation: Council of Europe

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Tuesday 30th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

I do not seek to distance myself from any Conservative Members of this House or another place. However, Parliamentary Assembly Members, who are cross-party and not representative of any single Government, have their views and opinions, and in those circumstances we cannot enforce government views. However, what we can do—and the noble Baroness is quite right to raise this—is to engage with them and put forward the Government’s position.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, would the Minister care to reconsider—

[Noble Lords]

Next Question.

Council of Europe

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, I declare an interest as an honorary vice-president of the Standing Conference of Local and Regional Authorities of Europe. Will the Minister please give an assurance that during their presidency our Government will do everything to ensure that citizenship education includes the rights of Roma, Gypsy and Traveller populations within the countries of Europe? There is terrible discrimination in Council of Europe countries against these groups.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right that discrimination against Roma and concerns for the position of Roma are very important issues. As she knows, the secretary-general of the Council of Europe convened a high-level meeting way back in October of not last year but the year before. That was after the really chilling example of the French deportations of Roma and it produced the Strasbourg declaration on the treatment of the Roma. However, I fully agree with the noble Baroness that this issue should remain at the top of the agenda, and it is one that we should examine and promote very carefully and assiduously during our chairmanship.

EU: Hungarian Presidency

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

As for bailout provisions, after 2013 we will be under no obligation to do that sort of thing unless we voluntarily wish to do so or it makes sense from our national interest to do so. Before 2013, it is, of course, a fact that we are bound by decisions of the previous Government and are bound to be involved to some extent.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that one of our priorities in the European Union will be to help to encourage and insist on fair treatment for minorities in all EU countries, particularly the Roma people, who suffer massive discrimination in many member countries of the EU?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Baroness is quite right to raise this concern about the Roma. We want to encourage the presidency to focus on practical co-operation between member states. Indeed, we have been working on practical co-operation ourselves with Romania on this issue. The Hungarian presidency is drawing up a framework strategy on Roma inclusion. We have strong and effective legislation ourselves and policies to tackle racial discrimination and to promote race equality, so we would not be in favour of further legislation, but very detailed practical co-operation to meet this particular minority problem is certainly very much at the top of the agenda.

Iraq: Camp Ashraf

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I am assured—I have checked this carefully—that all basic and medical supplies are getting in. There is a hospital facility in the camp. Although some items—bicycles and beds, oddly enough—have been prevented from entering the camp, all basic material and food supplies, and the basic essentials of life, are getting into the camp and will continue to do so. The UN is very concerned to see that this situation is maintained.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, can the Minister assure us that visits on behalf of Britain are unannounced and that there is an insistence on meeting people without security guards being present? We all know that there is a danger that a prepared route is available and that prisoners are often too frightened to speak out.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have not had any clear information about there being a difficulty on that front so far. The visits have been regular and occasionally irregular and therefore unannounced and unplanned for. I do not think that there has been any difficulty, but I will watch out for that carefully in the future to see that these are genuine visits, where evidence is presented and not covered up.