Data Protection and Digital Information Bill

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Viscount Camrose

Committee stage
Wednesday 27th March 2024 Grand Committee

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

Yes, I am happy to commit to that. As I said, we look forward to talking with the noble Baroness and others who take an interest in this important area.

Clause 33 already includes a measure that would allow the Secretary of State to request the ICO to publish a code on any matter that she sees fit, so this is an issue that we could return to in the future, if the evidence supports it, but, as I said, we consider the amendments unnecessary at this time.

Finally, Amendment 252 would place a legislative obligation on the Secretary of State regularly to publish address data maintained by local authorities under open terms—that is, accessible by anyone for any purpose and for free. High-quality, authoritative address data for the UK is currently used by more than 50,000 public and private sector organisations, which demonstrates that current licensing arrangements are not prohibitive. This data is already accessible for a reasonable fee from local authorities and Royal Mail, with prices starting at 1.68p per address or £95 for national coverage.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

Some 50,000 organisations access that information, but does the Government have any data on it? I am not asking for it now, but maybe the Minister could go away and have a look at this. We have heard that other countries have opened up this data. Are they seeing an increase? That is just a number; it does not tell us how many people are denied access to the data.

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

We have some numbers that I will come to, but I am very happy to share deeper analysis of that with all noble Lords.

There is also free access to this data for developers to innovate in the market. The Government also make this data available for free at the point of use to more than 6,000 public sector organisations, as well as postcode, unique identifier and location data available under open terms. The Government explored opening address data in 2016. At that time, it became clear that the Government would have to pay to make this data available openly or to recreate it. That was previously attempted, and the resulting dataset had, I am afraid, critical quality issues. As such, it was determined at that time that the changes would result in significant additional cost to taxpayers and represent low value for money, given the current widespread accessibility of the data. For the reasons I have set out, I hope that the noble Lords will withdraw their amendments.

Medical Research Techniques

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Viscount Camrose

Monday 18th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to promote the use of human-specific medical research techniques, such as “organ-on-a-chip” and computer modelling, in place of animal testing.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (Viscount Camrose) (Con)]

The Government provide significant funding for the development of these technologies through UKRI, primarily to the National Centre for the Replacement, Reduction and Refinement of Animals in Research. We are doubling our investment in this area next year to £20 million and this summer the Government will publish a plan to accelerate the development, validation and uptake of methods to reduce reliance on the use of animals in science.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his Answer, but of course animal testing is not working well. Less than 6% of cancer drugs proceed past the first small phase 1 trials, and more than 99% of Alzheimer’s drugs have failed. There are some very exciting possibilities, such as the liver-on-a-chip device that correctly identified 87% of drugs that caused liver toxicity after they passed animal tests. Many other countries are racing ahead on this: the USA has passed the FDA Modernization Act, the Netherlands has a transition programme and India has new rules for drug trials. Do we not need to go much further and look towards legislative change and a much bigger injection of funds to see real progress if we are to be world-leading in the future in this biotechnology field?

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

That is a wide-ranging question, and I will do my best to cover some of those points. With respect to the effectiveness of clinical trials, on the whole they cannot take place without toxicology trials and most of those, sadly, have to be done on animals. We very much welcome any technology that allows for in silico methods of assessing toxicology and it is true that more of those are emerging, but they have to be validated in order to be assumed safe and usable in clinical trials.

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

Yes, indeed; the economic potential is absolutely enormous. As with any medical devices, they need to be put through proper pharma-covigilance procedures, validation and testing, to make sure that by the time we are ready for clinical trials, all the toxicology testing has been properly done. Where it is possible to find an alternative to animal testing, that should always be followed. We always aim to use the minimum number of animals for the scientific benefit to be achieved and minimise the potential harm to animals for that benefit.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in responding to me the Minister referred to the apparent necessity of animals for toxicity tests. Of course, the case I had cited was one where liver drugs had passed animal toxicity tests and then were found to have problems with a human-specific technology. Canada has passed a Bill to phase out animal-based chemical toxicity testing and the European Commission is committed to developing a road map in that direction. As the noble Baroness on the Front Bench said, human-specific technologies have enormous potential. Will the Government look at getting an Act to provide a framework so that the UK could get ahead in this area and end toxicology testing on animals, as other countries are looking to do?

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

The noble Baroness mentioned an Act—there are widespread protections under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act. We have the three-tier licensing system, including significant training and assessment for licensees, and a range of other safeguards. Different jurisdictions are taking a range of approaches to this; I am not aware of any jurisdiction that has yet been able to set a timeline for the absolute removal of animal tests because, sadly, they do remain critical for the development of medicines.

Research, Development and Innovation Organisational Landscape Report

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Viscount Camrose

Monday 20th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, when talking about research, the Government often seem to be most excited by and focus on the kind of research that generates new profits and services. But very often research is into social innovation: for example, the subject of antimicrobial resistance. Looking for new drugs is something that we need to do, but social innovation and changes in medical practice can reduce the need to produce new drugs and protect the drugs we have now. Will the Minister perhaps look into seeing how we can focus more on that social innovation as well as the profit-making kinds of research?

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

The science and technology framework sets out five priority areas for research and innovation and those areas are then pursued across a mix of public sector, private sector and other bodies, each with their own goals for the research they are conducting. Within that, there is certainly room for all manner of research as the noble Baroness suggests.

EU Programmes

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Viscount Camrose

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for the question. I recognise the issue, and although my ability to fix that is pretty limited, I will of course take that back to my colleagues.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, a number of noble Lords have referred to the stress, pressure and extra work that the scientific community has had to suffer through the years of see-sawing and uncertainty about what is happening with Horizon. On 10 and 11 July, I was with ABX, the Antibiotic Discovery Accelerator Network. On 10 July, the papers were reporting that we were about to sign Horizon, which I told them. Then, on 11 July, I had to say, “No, apparently Rishi Sunak has kiboshed it, so it’s off”. Can the Minister therefore say whether the Government will put in extra resources and support to ensure that the scientific community is in fact able to access this opportunity, which has finally arrived after so many years of waiting?

I have a second question. The Statement refers to what might be described as two of the “buzz” areas of science: fusion, on which we are not joining the EU—I will refrain from commenting on fusion—and artificial intelligence. Can the Minister tell me whether the Government will really focus on and support systems biology, an area of science that the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, referred to—the kind of work that produces agro-ecological methods of producing food and managing our landscapes—and the modern, non-reductive biological sciences, given that the EU is, in many areas, far ahead of us in this research and this practice?

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

To the noble Baroness’s first point, I am pleased to say that the EU has agreed jointly with us to help to publicise the new arrangements with the UK and our association and to make sure that all existing participants become rapidly aware of the opportunities for associating with UK institutions and working with us on programmes. I really welcome that as a positive step towards taking full advantage as quickly as possible. Engineering biology is one of the science and research priorities set out by DSIT and will indeed, therefore, remain very much part of our laser focus.