Elections Bill

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Adonis

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Committee stage
Monday 21st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

I respectfully respond to the noble Lord that, whether it was the choice of the local authorities or not, it harms the quality of the evidence before us.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

If I may intervene, I knew where the pilots had taken place, but they were not nearly proportionate to the scale of the reforms being introduced. We do not know anything about their likely impact on voter turnout or the administrative issues that will be raised by the nationwide introduction of this reform. The very small, selective pilots were not even in representative areas. The issue of piloting is still very much there. If this is to be a nationwide reform—we are talking about parliamentary elections—this should be piloted in many constituencies before we move in this direction.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

That is a fundamental point. They were piloted in local elections. The scale of the pilots has not been nearly proportionate to the scale of the proposed reform.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

I thank both noble Lords, who have contributed greatly to my argument.

I come back to the question of people who own voter ID but do not happen to have it on them and to the experience of Sheffield on this particular occasion. One of the people I spoke to was a man who came speed-walking up to me, puffing slightly, and said: “Huh, do I have to have voter ID?” I said, “No, it is all right; you do not need it here.” He said, “Okay”, and dashed into the polling station.

What if I had had to say yes to that man? He was obviously having a very busy day, as many of us do—some people have to maintain two or three jobs to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head, and some people have caring responsibilities. Voting is on a Thursday, which is a working day for very many people. All these are reasons why voting can be difficult to access. Maybe a little window has opened up in your day—say you are a care worker who moves between different houses, and suddenly you have an opportunity to go past the polling station but you do not have your passport on you. Say you are a student, not living at home; perhaps you have left your passport with your parents for safekeeping because you do not travel overseas very often. You go to vote where your student residence is. Did you remember from when you heard two months ago that an election was coming? Maybe you did not even know that an election was coming, and two months ago you left your passport at home.

We have not looked enough at the facts. It is not just about people who do not own this ID. People do not have to. The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, made a very powerful point that the European case studies do not match up. If you live in a country where a police officer or other official can stop you at any time and ask where your ID is, you will always have your ID on you. That is not the case in the UK.

My concluding point covers this group of amendments and many others. A lot of this Bill and the direction of the Government suggests that we have a problem with voters in the UK. I do not think we have any problem with the voters; we have huge problems with our failed political system.

Business of the House (Virtual Proceedings and Topical Questions for Written Answer)

Debate between Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle and Lord Adonis

Tuesday 21st April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, I join the noble Lord, Lord Newby, and my noble friend Lady Hayter in paying tribute to the officials of the House for the enormous amount of hard work that has gone in to making virtual proceedings a reality. Of course we welcome that, and I also very much associate myself with my noble friend’s remarks about our noble friend Lord Gordon of Strathblane.

Obviously this is work in progress, as the noble Lord, Lord Newby said, but some elements of the arrangements are causing acute concern, not just to noble Lords but to the public at large. The one that causes most concern is the fact that the virtual proceedings will not be broadcast and that until at least two weeks’ time it will not be possible for the public to observe what is going on, which is a breach of all precedent in parliamentary proceedings and a matter of very great concern. Will the Chief Whip tell the House the intention of the Government and the Procedure Committee in respect of the publication and broadcast of the virtual proceedings?

I assume, although it does not feature in what are effectively the new Standing Orders, that all proceedings of the virtual House will be published in Hansard in the normal way the following day. Will the Chief Whip clarify that that will be the case? Will he also say whether it is the case that the reason why the proceedings cannot be broadcast at the start of the virtual House in two hours’ time is that we are using Microsoft Teams rather than Zoom, and that if we were using Zoom, as the House of Commons is doing, it would be possible to broadcast the proceedings? If that is the case, what is the mechanism by which broadcasting will be possible in a fortnight’s time, assuming that that is the intention? Does the Chief Whip agree that for anything other than a very short period while technical difficulties are sorted out, it is absolutely unacceptable that the proceedings of this House are not broadcast and are not open to members of the public at the time that they take place?

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the staff, in particular, who are operating under such difficult conditions, as we know the whole of society is at the moment, and also Members of your Lordships’ House who have worked very hard on this. I particularly applaud the arrival of the new topical Written Questions. That is an excellent innovation that I hope will continue into the future.

I am sure that over the recess most noble Lords have, like me, been learning a whole new alphabet soup of videoconferencing technologies. I have been holding a great many meetings with local Green parties, explaining the work of the House of Lords. One of the things I explain when I do that is that, although they might not know it, the House of Lords is actually an anarchist collective. I am of course referring to the fact that when we are conducting Oral Questions and Private Notice Questions it is not a chair who decides who speaks; the whole House makes the decision collectively. That brings me to two points that I would perhaps have tabled as amendments under different circumstances. That is obviously not practical today, but I would like to put them on record.

The Green group and the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, who cannot be here today, have jointly put forward proposals for the allocation of Oral Questions. It is obvious that we cannot operate in the same manner as we do in the House, but it would maintain some of the democratic nature of traditional Oral Questions if those asking supplementaries were voted for by the whole House, rather than being selected by the usual channels—the term “usual channels” is one we might want to reflect on. That is something we might look at in our new procedures.

The other thing I wanted to raise is of particular concern to the Green group, although I suspect that it is an issue for other groups, too. On Oral Questions, the guidance says that for each session:

“Non-affiliated peers and Bishops will be allocated 1 question”.


I clarified with the Whips Office that “each session” refers to each Question. Can that be confirmed?

Secondly, I point to the rather odd grouping, even within the traditions of your Lordships’ House, of Lords spiritual and temporal together. Your Lordships’ House often enjoys the benefits of hearing from the spiritual Lords, whatever I might think of their presence here, but if they come in on an Oral Statement, that leaves no space for the Green group, for Plaid or for other non-aligned Peers. That is a problem that those changing our future procedures should take a look at.

I thank everyone for their work. It is a work in progress and I ask that we consult widely to make sure that what we have is as democratic as possible and that we do not see the coronavirus taking away what democracy we have in this House.