Financial Services Reform

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his question, and I pay tribute to his experience in the industry that he outlined. I do not agree with his view of the industry. I am incredibly proud of the financial services sector in this country: it makes a massive contribution to our economy, and it is incredibly important that we enable it to grow and that that growth feeds through to the real economy so we can see the investment in the real economy that we want to see.

My noble friend talks, perfectly correctly, about finding the right balance between risk and growth. As I say, we are not dismantling any of the architecture that was put in place in the aftermath of the financial crisis, and it is quite right that we do not do that, but we believe that the pendulum has swung too far towards regulating only for risk. It needs to regulate not just for risk but for growth, and that is the right thing to do.

I think my noble friend is wrong to say that we are in any way giving financial advice. We are trying to put in place what has been called a targeted support framework that enables people to access the help they need to make the right financial decisions for them, and that will be ready to support consumers by ISA season next year. It would enable authorised firms, not the Government, to proactively suggest appropriate products or courses of action, using limited information about a customer and their circumstances. That could include helping people to make decisions about how to access their pension, supporting people with excess cash savings to consider investing for the first time. I cannot believe that anyone would think that was anything but a good idea.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, my question follows on from those of the noble Lords, Lord Davies of Brixton and Lord Sikka, both of whom spoke about financialisation. Earlier this year, the head of UNCTAD—UN Trade and Development —Dr Anastasia Nesvetailova wrote a piece on a path out of the “finance curse”. It offered suggestions to global South countries—developing countries—using the UK as a case study of what to be aware of from the finance curse. She wrote that

“financialisation had progressed against the backdrop of deepening asymmetries—sectoral and regional—in incomes, wealth, employment and even access to public services”.

I think we would all have to agree with that. She went on to say that

“the system … appeared to serve the interests of global asset owners rather than those of the people of the United Kingdom”.

How are the Government going to ensure, if indeed their changes have the effect that they desire, that the benefits are going to trickle down to people outside the financial sector? How else is the rest of the economy going to benefit?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I have already made it clear in previous answers that I disagree with that analysis. It is not at all how we see the financial services sector.

How are people going to benefit? I think the 1.2 million people employed in the financial services sector right across the UK will benefit from that. That is a pretty substantial benefit. The noble Baroness will know that we need to get more investment into our economy, and we are not going to get that investment unless we have a growing and thriving financial services sector. So I am very clear that I disagree with the noble Baroness’s analysis.

Tackling Unsustainable Debt

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the global South has suffered for decades, trapped under an ideology imposed from the outside of privatisation, austerity and deregulation. Will the Minister and the Government ensure that future arrangements allow an escape from that ideology towards investment in the essential systems of health, education and democratic engagement?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

That is exactly what our approach is designed to do. As I have said, multilateral action is the right way forward. The G20 common framework remains the best available tool for us to tackle debt vulnerabilities, bringing together traditional and newer creditors to co-ordinate on debt treatment, which is critical given the more diverse creditor landscape that we currently face.

UK Infrastructure: 10-year Strategy

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Tuesday 24th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for the smile; it is always most welcome. On the route of the trans-Pennine route upgrade, she spoke about the importance of transparency. I think the best thing will be to write to her and set it out in full, so that there is no misunderstanding.

In terms of farming, I hope she welcomes the £2.7 billion per year in sustainable farming and nature recovery. I think that is a very substantial investment in the things she spoke about.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, there have been a number of references to NISTA, the National Infrastructure and Service Transformation Authority. The Statement says:

“Based in the Treasury, NISTA brings oversight of infrastructure strategy and delivery together, and integrates assurance, design and delivery assessments”.


The Treasury is not the expert in transport, energy or social housing infrastructure. Many Members of your Lordships’ House often lament the dictatorship of the Treasury over other government decisions. Is this not a further concentration of power within one department in government, when actually we need the people with the expertise and knowledge to have the oversight, not this concentration in the Treasury?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

Well, the noble Baroness might not expect me to agree with her on that; I think the more Treasury, the better, from my point of view. So, no, I disagree with her, but of course NISTA is there to work for the whole Government and not just the Treasury. It has to be based somewhere and it makes sense for it to be based in the Treasury, given the Treasury’s responsibility for the 10-year infrastructure strategy, which it will be overseeing. Of course, NISTA’s expertise will be available to Ministers right across government.

Spending Review 2025

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Thursday 12th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I will do exactly as my noble friend asks and pass that on. The important announcements yesterday that she mentions are incredibly welcome. The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the Chancellor also announced the dormant assets initiative to get more creative industries into more schools, so that the huge advantages and benefits of that kind of creative industry are available no longer only to privileged children but to far more children in state schools.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I can only welcome the 3% increase in NHS funding in real terms, although it is below the long-term average over decades of 3.6% increases. The chief executive of the NHS Confederation has said that this

“won’t be enough to cover the increasing cost of new treatments”.

With that in mind, it is disappointing that while “public services”, “public finances” and “public debt” appear in the Chancellor’s speech, there is no use of the phrase “public health”. Given that the NHS is under such pressure, surely the Government should look to decrease the demand for healthcare by improving the health of the nation, which is, compared with comparable countries, extremely poor. That would mean measures to deal with water, air and other pollution, our broken food system and the poor quality and lack of green spaces. Will the Government look at making the nation healthier to help the NHS?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

Yes. The noble Baroness says that we are not spending enough on the health service. Over the next five years, £30 billion will be invested in day-to-day spending, with over £5 billion specifically allocated to address the most critical issues. The noble Baroness likes to tell us how she does not believe in economic growth. If we do not have economic growth, how will we find the money to fund our public services? I sat through the national insurance Bill. The noble Baroness opposed it and the additional money that it brought into our National Health Service. She says that this is not enough money. How exactly is she going to find the money? She is mouthing “wealth taxes”. If she thinks a wealth tax is going to raise that many billion pounds, I would love to see her proposals.

British Steel

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Thursday 24th April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gustafsson (Lab)]

Creating an ongoing, viable concern is absolutely the aspiration for the sector, not necessarily with regard to British Steel specifically, but the much broader sector. As I said earlier, we have the immediate-term question of how we make sure that the day-to-day operation of British Steel is ongoing and running. That second longer-term piece is how we make it a financially sustainable industry and one that is able to wash its own face economically. To that part, that is where that steel strategy is really core. With regard to the specifics of what we are spending in the here and now, that is absolutely information that will be made available within part of the department’s accounts when they are published.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the annual volume of steel scrap exported from the UK was 7.22 million tonnes in 2023, 8.24 million tonnes in 2022 and 7.4 million tonnes in 2021. That figure is not going down: it is bobbling around, which is a product of both the supply of scrap steel from within the UK and what is happening in markets to which it is being exported, particularly the Indian subcontinent. My question is about the Government’s long-term vision. That amount of steel would ensure that if we were to recycle that ourselves under the best possible environmental conditions, we would obviously be creating jobs and opportunities to secure a supply of steel for the just transition that we need. Is the Government’s long-term vision a circular economy in steel so we are not exporting scrap steel?

[Baroness Gustafsson (Lab)]

I can confirm that thinking about how we create that circular economy within the steel industry and how we think about scrap steel will absolutely be a key aspect of the steel strategy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Gustafsson (Lab)]

I am more than happy to follow up specifically on that matter with you separately.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the Minister spoke about seeking new private sector involvement in Scunthorpe and the steelworks. We have seen so much private sector involvement in sectors such as the water industry, with essentially the privatisation of profits and cash and the socialisation of debts and costs. Can the noble Baroness assure me that that will not happen here?

[Baroness Gustafsson (Lab)]

I think we have been clear about the best way forward: we would like this to be a commercially run business, with private investment and government acting in support. But we will do whatever it takes to give the UK the best chance to safeguard the future of steel-making. That is why we would talk about the most likely outcome, as the Secretary of State has mentioned, being that of nationalisation.

UK-US Trade and Tariffs

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Thursday 3rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gustafsson (Lab)]

On my noble friend’s question about the impact not just within the UK but outside, if we think about our supply chains, we see that so many are interconnected and have a fierce reliance not just on the UK, the US or Europe but on so many other countries that pass through those supply chains—especially when we think about things such as digital services that we are championing. Making sure that we support those industries, not just to support their economies and those that could be most in need but to support our supply chains, is something that would ultimately benefit both sides of that equation.

I come back to the fact that, today, I am just speculating, because I still do not understand fully how those tariffs will affect our supply chains and some of the sectors within those other countries. Yes, we need to make sure that we have strong and robust supply chains and are supporting those nations that benefit most from the value of that international trade, but I cannot comment further on exactly what the specifics look like at this point in the absence of more detail.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the Minister spoke about strengthening the US-UK relationship further and about a positive trading relationship with the US. This tone reflects the Pollyanna approach that seems to bear no relationship to the reality of we saw last night of the great game show-like display in Washington—an attempt to divide and rule.

The noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Bilimoria, spoke about working with the majority of the world’s trading countries—those countries that want to follow the rule of law and an orderly system—yet what we are hearing from the Government is again and again talk of leaving our long-term economic future in the hands of whether or not we are, from one day to the next, in President Trump’s favour. Surely, we must hear more about defending that rules-based order and working together, as the noble Viscount just said?

Closed-Ended Investment Companies: Cost Disclosure

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, again, for her question. I am not sure that we are going to agree on this specific point. I have already set out the Government’s position very clearly. I recognise that there are frustrations among some noble Lords and in the sector. It is the Government’s view that operationalising this legislation is a matter for industry and the regulator. The Government look forward to seeing the outcomes of the FCA’s consultation in due course.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in an earlier answer, the Minister said that the Government want to encourage savings and think that saving is a good thing. How does the Minister square that with the fact that the Government are planning to increase the supply of credit to households, regarding that as a way to encourage growth? Despite the obvious risks that increasing household credit brings—and the fact that, as the Economics Observatory noted, consumer confidence remains weak, as it has been since the Brexit vote in 2016, and has declined since mid-2024—how do we square up encouraging savings and encouraging credit?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The Government have a very clear objective of increasing living standards in all parts of the country. We want all households to have more money available to spend and to save.

Capital Investment and Share Ownership

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right. He is far more expert in these matters than I am, but I absolutely agree with him. Clearly, the public sector needs to be an intelligent client when it is negotiating with the private sector. That skill set is vital both within the Civil Service and in the skills we can draw on. As I mentioned, the Chancellor has established the British Infrastructure Taskforce to try to help with skills and advice. It is made up of some of the UK’s biggest financial companies, and it will support the Government’s infrastructure goals and ensure that the strategy is credible and deliverable.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the disastrous Blair PFI NHS hospitals scheme. I do not think there is much awareness that about half the money is still to be paid off. The noble Lord, Lord Fox, referred to the cost to local government. The Minister is probably aware of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research figure: local government is paying £13.5 billion. The institute also found that £1 billion had been made in pre-tax profit by a handful of companies, often registered in Guernsey and Jersey. Is PFI not simply a benefit to the financial sector?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I think it was probably a benefit to the people who were able to be treated in the 100 hospitals that were built as a result of it. As I say, the private finance initiative was a specific public/private partnership model that was developed 20 years ago. The Government are actively managing the legacy PFI portfolio, and we are learning lessons from that.

London Stock Exchange: Decline in UK Funds

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

Thursday 13th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question, and once again, I pay tribute to her for her campaigning on this issue. The Government absolutely recognise the key role the investment company sector plays in the UK economy; it represents over 30% of the FTSE 250 and invests in assets that support the Government’s growth agenda. We have listened carefully to the noble Baroness’s concerns, not least through her campaigning in the previous Parliament and her Private Member’s Bill in this Parliament. Last year we legislated, I think as a direct result of her campaigning, to reform retail disclosure, with the FCA launching a consultation on an entire replacement regime in December.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware that the tax-dodging fast-fashion firm Shein, having been rejected in New York, is now apparently seeking to list on the London Stock Exchange. Does the Minister agree with Liam Byrne, the chair of the Business and Trade Committee, who wrote to LSE asking if it agreed that it was important that firms seeking to list on the exchange have safeguards against forced labour in their products?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The decision on whether a firm can list in the UK is a matter for the independent regulator, the FCA, subject to a firm meeting its listing rules and relevant disclosure requirements.

Crown Estate (Wales) Bill [HL]

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 7th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes, and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, on bringing before us this important and timely Bill. We have a sense of unfinished business here. It is not too late, as we have heard, for the Government to pick this up with their own Crown Estate Bill, and we saw the possibility of that happening demonstrated earlier today in your Lordships’ House.

It is worth noting the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, that we are talking here about land resources that are the result of conquest. It is interesting that in the current global position, it is a Green principle to believe in self-determination and democracy. I know that the Wales Green Party has been campaigning very strongly in favour of the step that the Bill delivers, and I am sure I will be talking about it with its members when I visit Cardiff next weekend.

I hope that everyone will agree that if we want to discuss British values, self-determination and the right for people to democratically decide their own governance and to have control over their own resources are indeed British values. The Bill is timely because currently these are issues of great concern to the people of Greenland and Panama, as they are to the people of Wales. If we believe in the increasingly battered principle of an international rules-based order and if we are to stand up against powerful forces opposed to that, working at speed to smash them both in their home countries and abroad, this Bill takes us in the right direction.

It is also worth looking at the context of much that is discussed in your Lordships’ House, such as the recent Channel 4 report on Generation Z, identified as those aged 13 to 27. The headline said that a majority of young people want the country to be a dictatorship. When you actually look into the detail of the questions that were asked, it is a little more complex than that. They were asked whether they favoured a strong leader

“who does not have to bother with Parliament and elections”.

I note that these young people are perhaps reflecting what we are hearing from the Government and the governing classes, given that we have just seen the abolition of a large number of elections being delivered by the Government and a great deal of talk about elected mayors being strong leaders. So we might want to look at where these ideas are coming from.

Before we give up on democracy, we should think about trying it. This Bill delivers democracy for the people of Wales. Democracy is not just about voting; it is about deliberating, being in control, being able to collectively make decisions and the people most affected being able to make them, and benefiting from their own resources. As has been commented on by multiple noble Lords, I believe it is the policy of the Labour Party in Wales to support the Bill.

It is worth noting the very relevant context. Report stage of the Great British Energy Bill will be with your Lordships’ House next week and I understand that the Government have finally made a concession on supporting community energy, something that your Lordships’ House has fought for and backed again and again. I reserve the right for final judgment until I have seen the detail; none the less, this is a positive sign. The Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, would enable much more community control and community energy to be delivered in Wales rather than by giant multinational companies operating with far distant commissioners.

Finally, if this Bill was delivered, it would really highlight the remaining lack of democracy around the whole Crown Estate structure for England.

The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, said that the Bill might delay. I suggest that it would greatly enhance and speed up the possibility of delivering that community and democratic energy. There is the strongest possible Green support for this and I very much hope that the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, is able to hear from the Minister that this is all going to power ahead.