Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill

Baroness Benjamin Excerpts

Monday 9th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, I will very briefly illustrate the importance of Amendment 66 from the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson. As I was making a speech in Hull in 2017, when Hull was the City of Culture, a woman came in and, when she saw me, she almost fainted. She buckled. I thought, “That’s very strange”. Anyway, I finished my speech and after everybody had asked for a selfie and an autograph, the woman came towards me and said, “Floella, I’m sorry I reacted that way, but when I was eight, I was fostered. My foster parents had two sons, and every day they used to come home and sexually abuse me. The only thing that got me through it, Floella, was seeing your smiling face. I so wanted to scream out and tell you, but I knew someone out there loved me. I’m now a 48 year-old woman, and every time I go through a dark period in my life, I think of you and so wish I could have told you back then”. That is why it is important that children should know that there is somebody they can speak to about the kinds of abuse that 48 year-old woman is now reliving, because, as I always say, childhood lasts a lifetime.

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, I have Amendment 69A in this group. It speaks for itself. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

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[Baroness Longfield (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, support the amendment and thank noble Lords for putting it forward. This is not a new debate: I called for this change in law many years ago, including when I was Children’s Commissioner for England. I have not changed my view. As we have heard, Sweden outlawed smacking in 1979, and I can remember when the last Labour Government faced the same calls those 20 years ago. We did, of course, banish corporal punishment in schools a long time ago. The moves in Scotland, in Wales and in Ireland over very recent years have all been about closing the loophole, because they all recognise that the defence of reasonable chastisement is outdated and wrong. I believe it is time for England to follow suit: making sure that children have equal protection from adults.

I think that we have moved on considerably in this country over recent years on the issue and that views have changed. It is no longer a particularly contentious issue, I do not think. Most parents no longer believe that hitting children is the right way to improve behaviour or to discipline children: it is much better to support and help parents to support their children with positive behaviour. We should not see this as either a complex or controversial issue or debate. It is not the nanny state or the Government interfering in how parents discipline their children. This amendment makes a sensible and long-overdue change that does no more than provide children with the same right as adults not to be the victims of assault.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, I rise to support Amendment 173 and the passionate speech on child neglect by my noble friend Lady Tyler. Neglect can affect a child right through into adulthood, and we need to address this by giving support to the protection of our children. I also support Amendment 67 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, who spoke so powerfully, and in the name of other noble Lords. In doing so, I declare my interest as vice-president of Barnardo’s.

As we have heard, Barnardo’s, the NSPCC and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, together with over 20 other organisations, including UNICEF, have called for a complete ban on smacking. Almost 70 countries have banned smacking, leaving no ambiguity in the law: it is never okay to “reasonably punish” a child. It is time to join those countries and end physical punishment against children.

There is no evidence that smacking is effective or that it prevents bad behaviour or that it teaches positive behaviour. It can lead to mental health issues in later life and develop a pattern of behaviour of a child learning to use violence to solve problems, to get what they want or even to become a bully.

Smacking can damage parent-child relationships and lead to resentment and fear rather than respect. I have spoken to so many adults who tell me how much they hate their father because of the physical violence that they suffered as a child. It is not only fathers whom they hate but mothers who have inflicted violence on their children.

It is much better to talk a problem through with a child, reason with a child through role play and set good behavioural examples. The earlier that this starts, the better it is in the long term for a happy childhood experience. I wholeheartedly support this amendment.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)]

My Lords, I support the amendments ably introduced by my noble friend Lady Finlay.

They make laws slightly differently in Germany. When a law is made relating to something that affects children, for example, they sometimes insert something in their constitution. I note that in 2000, when the parental right to spank was rescinded in Germany, a new phrase was introduced into the German constitution:

“Children have a right to an upbringing free of violence. Corporal punishment, emotional harm and other humiliating measures are not permissible”.


That has happened, and similar steps have been taken in 75 countries to date where smacking is not permitted. Many of those countries are in Europe. Almost the whole of Europe forbids smacking. We stand out as an exception in the map of Europe where it is illustrated. Just as Germany, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are not worse places as a result of the banning of smacking, the same will be the situation in the whole of the United Kingdom when England follows Wales, Scotland and, hopefully, Northern Ireland.

Section 58 of the Children Act 2004 is predicated by opposition to smacking, not by encouragement of smacking. As has already been said, it was banned in schools but has been allowed to continue in certain very restricted circumstances in homes. As early as 2007, the Crown Prosecution Service issued a report in which it was opposed to banning smacking altogether but observed that the defence was being used in inappropriate situations and in the wrong kinds of cases. There is absolutely no evidence that the banning of smacking would have any dramatic effect on parents who, like the parents in the countries that I have named, have simply been told, “You can’t smack your children anymore”. I believe that people are ready for that in this country.

The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, in an extremely powerful speech, gave several examples of cases in which the terrible violence that eventually was used against children probably started with the first smack. It is quite wrong that we should allow that sort of situation to develop.

I listened with great care—my synapses were operating in overdrive—while the noble Lord, Lord Jackson, was speaking. However, he is now a bit historical in this argument. I treat his points with respect, of course, but I prefer those that have been made by other noble Lords in this House. Between the noble Lord and the Royal College of Paediatrics, I prefer the royal college.

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I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Barran—as well as the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, who has also signed this amendment—will speak further on this. It is something so obvious and important to address the needs of some of the most vulnerable in our society. I beg to move.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, any parent will tell you that raising children is a difficult job. It is important that all families have access to the support they need to help parents be the best they can. That is why early intervention matters; yet, too often, family support services, such as family hubs or centres, are the first things to be closed when funding is tight.

Recent analysis by Pro Bono Economics, on behalf of Barnardo’s and other leading children’s charities, shows that spending on Sure Start centres has been reduced by £1.4 billion since 2010, resulting in the closure of over 1,000 centres. This is why I support Amendment 68, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, to which I have added my name. It would place a duty on local authorities to provide sufficient family support services, including family hubs, for all children and families. This has been recommended by Barnardo’s and Action for Children, but these charities believe that such a change in the law must be backed by sufficient funding. Otherwise, we will be letting down a whole generation of children and their families, and any hope for their well-being.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 68, 68A, 68B, 169 and 171 in this group. I added my name to Amendment 68 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, because it has been my long-standing position that every community in this country needs preventive family support for social flourishing, in the same way that they need GP surgeries and schools.

When the welfare state was founded in the late 1940s, there was a recognition that health and education would not be able to defeat disadvantage without it. Some 80% of children’s educational attainment is determined by pupil-level factors such as family and community, and only 20% by school-level factors. Health-wise, in 2015, Citizens Advice published a report called A Very General Practice, which found that 92% of GPs said that patients raised personal—often family relationship—problems during consultations. This was the top non-health issue they dealt with, and only 31% of GPs felt able to advise at all adequately in this area.

In 1949, one of the architects of the welfare state, Michael Young, called for child welfare centres to fulfil Beveridge’s principle of the preservation of parental responsibility and deal with the emotional cost to children of high post-war levels of family breakdown. These costs persist today. Compared to those who do not experience family breakdown, children who do are at least twice as likely to be homeless as adults, to be in trouble with the police or spend time in prison, and to underachieve at school.

Young’s child welfare centres began to emerge as family centres in the 1980s. These helped parents of all-aged children, mainly in disadvantaged areas, to prevent the need for social services, or they worked collaboratively with those services. Many were run by voluntary organisations such as National Children’s Home, now Action for Children, and many had significant involvement from local authority social services departments.

Promising beginnings led to the requirement in the Children Act 1989 that local authorities should provide family centres. These would have been a base for local authorities to work from in delivering family support. Buildings on their own are not enough but, even in this digital age, there needs to be a focal point in a community where people can find out about the full range of services and support available.

Family centres paved the way for the national programme of Sure Start and children’s centres, which began in the late 1990s and focused on the pre-school years. Although children’s centres were immensely helpful to many parents at this life stage, the cut-off at the age of five became increasingly contested, with a greater emphasis on early intervention throughout childhood. Finally, in 2020, family hubs became official government policy. After 70 years, the family support infrastructure envisaged by Michael Young as being so important for families of children of all ages seems to be emerging. I declare here my interest as a guarantor of FHN Holding, the not-for-profit owner of the Family Hubs Network Ltd.

I have given this potted history to show that good and well-reasoned intentions several decades ago have been frequently revisited but family support still seems to be on a precarious footing, as we have basically heard already. We await the granularity of the spending review later this week. Moreover, a proper family support system in a local authority is so much bigger than the family hub and the network of buildings, people and services around it. The hub has to sit in a bigger web of relational practice that guides how all support for families, including children’s social care, is run.

The Government have made promising progress in implementing the independent review of children’s social care, with the Families First Partnership programme of preventive family support. The programme aims to transform the whole system of help and protection for families so that the right help is there for every family when needed, and it has a strong emphasis on early intervention to prevent crisis. The Families First (FFP) Partnership Programme Guide gives family hubs a good profile as a place where universal services and community-based early help are delivered, and where emerging problems can be identified at an early stage. My aim in supporting the amendment is to get more information from the Government about how they will ensure a rebalancing away from crisis spending towards early intervention across the age range nought to 19, and nought to 25 for those with special needs, and how they will ensure that prevention becomes embedded, cannot be unravelled and is further developed.

I turn to Amendments 68A and 68B in my name. In the Family Hubs Network’s work with local authorities, we talk to many people who are locally leading the family hubs and Start for Life programme who say they have been somewhat held up by having to implement Start for Life instead of being able to press on with integrating services across the age ranges nought to 19 and nought to 25, as I have said. One council said the family hub part of the programme gets overlooked as the focus has been on Start for Life and on delivering its tight specifications. Some told us that prior to this programme they were doing well on the early years as a legacy of their children’s centres, many of which are still running, albeit that Start for Life funding has enabled them to strengthen this further.

Due to how the funding is structured, some LAs have been in danger of only really shoring up provision in the early years. For family hubs, the greater goal is the provision of family support from pregnancy to 18, 19 or 25 if SEND—as I have said—or care leavers. Boosting family support beyond the early years, vital though these are, must be a key goal, delivered through a range of settings and organisations, the public sector and VCS, with some private sector too, and personal professionals backed by well-trained volunteers.

Amendments 68A and 68B would mean that local authorities with a proven track record were granted more flexibility in how they used central government funding to deliver in their family hubs. Implemented well, family hubs involve a transformation in family support through system change, yet the requirements of the current programme do not adequately prompt local authorities receiving funding to implement system change. They put the focus on funding a minimum offer rather than on a system changed to embed new ways of working using an integrated approach. Collocating services, while beneficial, is not the same as system integration. Without system change, what happens when the funding stops? Mainstreaming any of the funded programmes requires system change.

Another key aspect of family hubs is using funding more effectively, particularly by combining funding pots. Westminster City Council, a pioneer of the first family hubs prior to central government funding, was able to deploy troubled families programme money to develop family hubs because it had earned autonomy from the tight strictures of that programme’s payment-by-results model. If the Government extend funding for family support to the rest of the country beyond the 75 in the family hubs and Start for Life programme, which I very much hope they will, good learning from the original programme suggests that an earned-autonomy approach would greatly help facilitate the desired transformation.

I also support Amendments 169 and 171, already mentioned, as post-removal support for parents to prevent future removals and bereavement support services for children need to be key elements of family support, but they are either vanishingly rare, hard to find or both.