Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill [HL]

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 4th June 2019 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Barker]

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert—
“( ) In section 3 (regulations with respect to proceedings for taking census), after subsection (1)(f) insert —“(fa) providing guidance on how the particulars relating to sex and gender identity should be answered, including —(i) whether this should be on the basis of self-identification;(ii) how intersex and non-binary people are expected to address these questions; and(iii) whether gender confirmation surgery or a legal gender recognition process is required.””

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, it is good to be back on this small but none the less important Bill. After Second Reading, I found myself reflecting on the importance of the census. I listened carefully to what the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, said about the fact that these days there are many more sources of data that the Government can call on to establish various aspects of citizens’ identities. She, largely I think on economic grounds, questioned whether there needed to be a census at all. That is a legitimate debate to have, and no doubt we will have it at some later stage. However, from talking to people who watched our debate, there is agreement that the simple process of the Government engaging in an exercise to establish information about their citizens is in itself important. It is an aspect and example of citizenship that has quite a lot of meaning for individuals. However we may come to do this in future, and in whatever mode, for the moment it is important to recognise that, for all citizens, having the right to engage in a meaningful exercise of registering the details of one’s existence with the state is important. That is why, for the very small group of people we are talking about today, it is important to take great care.

In the Bill we are primarily talking about making whether one registers one’s gender identity voluntary and making sure that anyone who wishes not to do so will not face a penalty, as they would for failing to answer mandatory parts of the census. However, we are going into this new area for the census of questioning people about their gender identity, which is a sensitive matter, so we need to do so with great care.

The purpose of the amendment in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire is, in essence, to get to the heart of what is important about the Bill—not the legislation but the guidance that will accompany it and will inform or assist people when they make their return. I should tell the Minister at this stage that I have no intention of pressing my amendment, the purpose of which is to enable us to clarify one or two points on which there may not have been sufficient understanding from our debate at Second Reading.

The first thing I want to establish is whether the question asking a person to say what their sex is will remain binary, as it has been since 1801, and whether it will be the case in 2021—as it has been for the two censuses in the past 20 years, if not before—that people answer on the basis of their lived identity: that which they present to the world. I have to say that I hope that is the case. If not, and we go for a far more limited definition, we run the risk of requiring people to give answers that would contradict those given in good faith in the censuses of 10 or 20 years ago because they have changed their gender and recognise their new gender. If we were to require them to go back to an earlier iteration of their existence, we would confuse the matter. Can the Minister confirm these things?

As I have just demonstrated that these are enormously complicated matters in practice, the second thing to ask is whether the officials testing the questions on sex and gender identity—who have, I believe, consulted civil servants in Scotland engaged in a parallel exercise—might engage quite widely with a number of different groups who have been working on these sorts of issues for some considerable time. There are questions for officials about what they have discovered during the extensive testing already done, and perhaps about the further testing that will need to be done leading up to 2021. That is the basis of my amendment; I hope the Minister will be able to clarify. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I have very little to add. I concur absolutely and reinforce the importance of the census, not just as a purely numerical thing but as rather more. I am sure the Minister will not have heeded too much the pleas of one of his predecessors, the noble Lord, Lord Maude, or the noble Baroness, Lady Finn. We should question whether we have this.

As was clear at Second Reading, we support the census and the initiative in this Bill. However, everyone agrees—this is not new—that it will be key for it to be done correctly with everyone’s confidence, particularly the populations who will now be able to answer questions deeply relevant to them. I also think it means that there should be no surprises when the census appears, either for the relevant groups, for whom this will be a welcome move forward, or for the rest of the form-fillers. There should be no surprise—or, if you like, antagonism—and I do not think there will be from the non-involved groups when these questions appear.

While we need to have the questions tested on those with a particular interest in answering them, we also need to test that they are understandable to those to whom they do not particularly apply. I am sure that the consultation on the questions will take account of this so that even those not interested in answering these questions will understand why they are there. We should not confuse people so we need to test the questions with all those who will fill in the forms.

My second point goes beyond my amendment in this group. We need to make sure that we see a very high completion rate of the census as a whole as well as on these additional questions. A lot of good PR will be needed to achieve that. Explanations and preparations need to be made well before the census form arrives, whether online or through people’s letterboxes. While I realise that this is beyond the scope of the amendment before the Committee, it would be useful if the Minister could say a little about the publicity covering the questions once they have been agreed.

I want to raise only one other point, perhaps a little cheekily because again it is not part of the amendment. At Second Reading we asked about the additional question on military service. Is there any update on how the consultation on that issue is taking place?

--- Later in debate ---

I hope that, in sharing the proposed guidance in draft and setting out the process for further developing and refining this guidance, I have reassured both noble Baronesses, who will now feel able to withdraw or not press their amendments.

[Baroness Barker]

My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for that—does he wish to add a further point?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I have received some in-flight refuelling about the pertinent question the noble Baroness asked about the campaign and publicity. She is absolutely right that we have to inform people about what is happening. The ONS will undertake a national campaign as well as local campaigns. It has been working closely with the GEO on the campaigns and it will also work closely with local authorities and the third sector to reach out to all communities to help them fill in the census and to identify as they like.

[Baroness Barker]

I thank the Minister for that; it is extremely helpful. It reflects, albeit in a condensed form, a longer and rather more detailed conversation that we had about these matters.

I stress that this is not only an important matter of civic engagement. As officials from the ONS have been at pains to point out to us in briefings, this is an opportunity to gather data not otherwise available. Therefore, it is extremely important that the data gathered is as true, full and inclusive as possible. Apart from anything else, this data will inform public policy for decades to come. It is therefore important that we enable people. The people I have talked to often struggle to know how to fill in a form. They wish to fill in forms honestly but they struggle to do so, because it is not always clear. Therefore the more that can be done to include people, the better. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that it is important that, in seeking to make this as good as it can possibly be for a minority population, we do not end up confusing everyone else as well. That is not the intention. I welcome the offer to look at this in greater detail over the summer and the autumn as the census rehearsal happens—what an exciting prospect that is.

This is an important matter for us all. I thank the Minister very much and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 1 withdrawn.

Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill [HL]

Baroness Barker Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 13th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the Bill and thank him and his team for the briefing they gave Peers the other day. He is right: this is the first time I have been involved in census legislation. My previous experience of considering the census in great detail was in 1971, when my mum was an enumerator. Most enumerators were women because it was short-term work that working mums could do. She was an enumerator in a working-class area of the west of Scotland. I guess in those days we did not bother to ask about people’s religion because everyone knew what everyone else’s religion was, and if in doubt asked which school they went to.

I am pleased with the provisions of the Bill, which I hope will command general agreement. It is high time our data gathering became more inclusive. The LGBT community has suffered over time, particularly in the provision of public services, because there has been no basic data from which service planners have been able to work. All the information we get these days—patchy though it is—about LGBT people’s use of the NHS is not population data but data about our use of the NHS. That is all there is to go on, whereas for the rest of the population there is basic data from which projections can and should be made.

It is right that the Bill will ensure that it is not compulsory to answer that question—it is voluntary—and that there should be no penalty for not doing so. For many people it is still a matter that they wish to remain private. Other people cannot divulge their sexual orientation because they fear for their safety in the communities in which they live. It is therefore right that we should do this in the way that we will.

I was pleased to read the White Paper and about the great care that has gone into the preparation of the whole census and many of the questions. However, it is not what the Bill is trying to do that is important but what is not said in it. It is not clear what the questions will be and how they will be framed, and that is crucial. My understanding is that while the sexual orientation question has been subject to consultation, the gender identity one has not. I hope there will be extensive consultation with people likely to have to answer that question.

I understood from our briefing the other day that the sex question is likely to be, “What is your sex? Male or female?”—to be answered by everyone over 16—but the gender identity question is likely to be, “Is your gender the same as the sex you were registered under at birth? Yes/No. Please write in the gender or ‘Prefer not to say’”. Working from that, the assumption would be that a transgender woman would tick “Female” for the sex question and tick “No” and write in “Female” for the gender identity question. A non-binary person would tick the sex that they most closely identify with in the sex question and then tick “No” and write “Non-binary” in the gender identity question. A cis person like me would tick the sex assigned at birth in the sex question and “Yes” in the gender identity question. That is the basis on which I am working.

The standard sex question being left as it has been since 1801 causes a problem for people from three different groups: trans people, non-binary people and intersex people. First, trans people have for many years been filling in the census and have done so in their lived-in identity. Is it anticipated that that will happen from now on and that a trans person will respond in their lived-in identity? We have to bear in mind that the Government are currently consulting on a review of the Gender Recognition Act and these two proposals may come in at the same time. Let us remember that gender recognition is a legal process, not a medical process.

Secondly, what do the Government expect non-binary people to do? Whatever the Government expect them to do will have to be written into the guidance that goes along with the question. How are the Government going to consult on that?

The most difficult question, however, is about the smallest group of people: intersex people born with the characteristics of both sexes. As a result of the current way of not legislating properly for intersex people, they are currently assigned a sex at birth to have their birth recorded. Subsequently their sex may be changed. What are those people supposed to do? I know this all sounds horrendously complicated but I have talked to a number of people involved and they are aware that they are filling in a legal document. They want to do it properly. They do not want to deceive; they just want to know what to do, so it is critical that we get the guidance on this right.

That leads me to my next point, which will perhaps be raised by others, and is about privacy. I understand from the briefing the other day that the data will not be released for up to 100 years. As the Minister will know from our meeting, there is a fear, particularly among the trans community, that while at the moment our society is broadly well disposed towards its members, it may not always be. We are in the middle of a very vicious anti-trans campaign, orchestrated by one or two of our main media outlets. It may be that in 100 years’ time, people may not wish this information about their family to be released. Will the Minister say what might be done with this information in future? It needs to be handled with as much sensitivity as that afforded to religion.

I have two final points. First, this will only ever give us a minimum number because there will be all sorts of reasons why people do not respond to the question. When the statistics are released and show that there are far fewer people than we thought, let us not be surprised about that and let us not base public service provision on what will inevitably be a small number. I took the point made by officials that the census is kept as simple as possible to obtain information that cannot be obtained from other sources. That is why we do not ask every question that people would like to ask.

Secondly, I return to the point I made to the Minister the other day. There is another group of people—men who have never had children—about whom it is extremely difficult to find data. It is possible to work out which women have not had children through their medical records. Why is it important? Currently, 1 million people over the age of 65 do not have children, and we have a health and social care system predicated on the fact that your kids will look after you. It is estimated that by 2030 there will be 2 million people with no children. The trouble is that, because we cannot count them with any degree of accuracy, this significant emerging public policy issue is being ignored. I realise that this matter does not come within this Bill, and I realise, from questions, that the Minister will instantly go away and appoint a working group to look at what I have said. I thought I would throw it in on the off-chance, because I believe it is a significantly overlooked point of public policy. With that, I welcome the Bill very much.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Sorry, did I misspeak? All the questions are compulsory, apart from the religious question and the two questions before us today—corrigendum.

The new question on past service in the Armed Forces is proposed for the 2021 census to identify those who are 16 and over and who are veterans. This will enable us to serve those who have served their country and keep the commitment which we made to them when they joined the Armed Forces. As I said, the detailed question will be determined later in the year.

The term “head of household” has not been used since 1991, so the argument that some noble Lords on the Cross Benches have with their wives as to who is the head of household is unnecessary. It has gone to a more neutral form, either “householder” or “joint householder”.

On the 100-year rule, there is such a rule but of course Parliament could always change that if it wanted to. It has 100 years in which to come to that decision if some of the concerns voiced by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, took place. The noble Baroness asked a number of questions and I will do my best to answer them. One was about what intersex people do. The ONS is recommending that there be a note on the sex question, to advise that a gender question follows and include guidance that those who wish to can use the free-text box on gender identity to write “intersex” or another identity. Engagement by the ONS with the intersex community has not shown any objection to this proposed approach. She asked what we will do with this data and how it will be protected. Public confidence in the security and confidentiality of all information given in the census is paramount, including in particular on the questions that we have referred to today.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Barker and Lady Hayter, asked whether we were going to consult on the guidance. The guidance for the online and paper versions of the census is in development and being informed by research and testing with members of the public, and by input from stakeholders. On an additional point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, we do not use “issue born in marriage” in the census. Just to clarify, responsibility for completion now falls to the householder or joint householder, as I said, which is defined as the person who owns or rents the property, or is financially responsible for day-to-day expenses.

A homeless person would use the address of the establishment—the day or night shelter—where they fill the form in. I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Finn, who worked in the Cabinet Office and helped to move a number of public services online, as that has made the forms much more convenient for the citizen to fill in.

Yes, we have an objective of 75%, which I will come on to in a moment. My noble friend also referred to the value of cross-referencing census data to other data to build a more granular picture of society as a whole.

The 2021 census is part of a wider modernisation programme to transform ONS data collection to provide improved population statistics. As part of this programme and by using data-sharing provisions in the Digital Economy Act, the ONS is exploring how administrative data could replace the need for a decennial census after 2021. As to whether this is the last census, the UK Statistics Authority will make its recommendations on the future of the census in 2023. The ambition remains as set out in 2014: censuses, after 2021, will be conducted using other sources of data and by providing more timely statistical information. How will we hit the 75% target? ONS will provide assistance, including in-person support sessions, for example in schools and libraries. There will be a dedicated census contact centre working with community groups, and also work by census field staff on the doorstep.

Along with the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and me, the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, welcomed this being a non-controversial debate. I suspect that, had I introduced this provision in 1981 in another place, the debate would have lasted slightly longer than it lasted today. I welcome the support of the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, as a statistician, particularly for his reference to the value of data at a ward level.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, asked when we will get the order. We hope to debate it towards the end of the year, around October. “Later in the year”, my briefing tells me—that is perhaps a broader definition than the one I just used.

A person can tick as many national identity boxes as they like and write another. The noble Lord, if he wants to, can identify himself as English and Yorkshire. I think I have addressed most of the issues raised in the debate.

[Baroness Barker]

On exactly that point, I put two questions to the Minister to which he has not responded. How do the Government expect non-binary people to respond? Are trans people expected, as they do now, to reply to questions going by their lived-in experience? Perhaps the Minister will write to me about the interrelationship between this and the Gender Recognition Act.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

In so far as the compulsory question is concerned—the binary question of male/female—the guidance is minded to say, “Fill in what was on your birth certificate”. If you have changed your gender and have a gender certificate, you would put in that gender. The noble Baroness’s question underlines the importance of the guidance being right, and we propose to consult on it. If she agrees, I will write to her on the other question. Having said all that, I beg to move.

Legislation: Gendered Pronouns

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Monday 25th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The suggestion from my noble friend was that it should be used in all cases. I have conceded that we should use it in some cases, and I cited an example from the Terrorism Act, where we do indeed use the word they in the singular:

“It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that they had a reasonable excuse for their action”.


But to insist that it should be used in every case would be to deprive parliamentary draftsmen—parliamentary drafters—of the flexibility they need.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, trans activists who I know very well do not wish to stop anybody using gender pronouns; they simply wish to add more ways in which people can use terms that describe them more accurately. Private sector companies are way ahead of us and are latching on to this. Will the Government review gender markers which they use in official documents to stop the practice of asking questions out of habit to solicit lots of information that is never used?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I understand the issue that the noble Baroness raises. We will soon be publishing a consultation on the Gender Recognition Act, and we will also be publishing the results from our national LGBT survey, which received over 7,000 responses from non-binary people. I hope that that reassures the noble Baroness that we take this issue seriously.

Surrogacy

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Barker]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have plans to update the law on surrogacy.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, for 30 years this Parliament has shown the world how to legislate and regulate matters regarding human fertilisation and embryology. This House remains indebted to the noble Baroness, Lady Warnock, for her landmark report of 1978, which set out with such clarity the enduring ethical basis upon which parliamentarians, the judiciary, scientists and academics still judge the permissibility and advisability of successive scientific and medical innovations in the treatment of infertility.

The legislation that was drawn up three decades ago was designed with one overarching aim: to prevent the development of commercial surrogacy in the UK. In that respect, it has been successful. The authors of the Warnock report hoped in the 1980s that a restrictive legal climate in the UK would make surrogacy “wither on the vine”. It did not, but it has restricted the development of ethical, altruistic surrogacy. That is what I wish to talk about today.

In the last 30 years there has been considerable change in societal understanding of the composition of families. Parliament has, thoughtfully and rightly, updated the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990, most notably in 2008, to include same-sex parental couples and to regulate new developments in scientific knowledge and medical practice—for example, the banning of sex selection of embryos. However, one element of the legislation was founded on flawed assumptions from the start, the element that dealt with surrogacy. Thirty years on, it is referred to by academic researchers as “the fertility treatment that time forgot” and the law that relates to it as “thoroughly confused”. It should be changed.

The people who say so are judges in the Family Division who repeatedly state in their judgments that they are forced to make rulings that are not in the best interests of the children; intended parents, the people who at every stage intend to give lifelong care to the children; and surrogates. Here it is necessary to address a fundamental confusion that stems from terminology.

Earlier this year, I was privileged to listen to some young women who have been and are surrogates. They are absolutely clear that they are surrogates: they are never surrogate mothers; they are not the mothers of the children. In reality, the protection that the law gives to birth mothers is almost never wanted by surrogates, and it is not in the best interests of newborn children, whose intended parents are labelled as legal strangers, unable to make medical decisions at the early time of a child’s life, close to birth.

Leading researchers include Professor Margaret Brazier from the University of Manchester Law School, who chaired the review of surrogacy arrangements between 1996 and 1998, and others whom noble Lords will know, such as Professor Susan Golombok, Professor of Family Research at Cambridge, and Dr Kirsty Horsey, senior lecturer at Kent School, who has researched surrogacy for 18 years.

In May 2016, on “Woman’s Hour”, Baroness Warnock herself admitted that, back in the 1980s, she did not fully understand the motivation of surrogates and that now, as in the intervening years it has proved possible to encourage non-commercial surrogacy, she believes that the law should be changed.

Surrogacy is a subject that suffers greatly from sensationalist journalism and broadcasting. We are very fortunate, therefore, to have the research published by organisations such as Surrogacy UK, which has had a working group on surrogacy law reform. Those researchers admit that, while existing data on surrogacy are inadequate, in so far as it is possible to gather information from passport applications and applications for parental orders, the number of surrogacy arrangements is small but growing. In 2007, fewer than 50 parental orders were granted. In 2011, the number was 149, and of those approximately a quarter took place overseas. It is therefore safe to assume, in a way that the Daily Mail does not, that the majority of surrogacy arrangements are domestic.

The research also showed that only 15% of intended parents were gay male couples. Many intended parents are women who have survived cancer treatment. Happily, they are alive; but unhappily, they either cannot conceive or cannot carry a pregnancy to term, which is what they would wish. The majority of surrogates had been introduced to the intended parents through a surrogacy agency or support group; others were friends or family—as in a case recently in the news. None met through a commercial agency.

Of those who have given birth, 95% remain in contact with the children and the intended parents, which would suggest an openness and an ongoing affection in the relationship. The majority—just under 95%—of surrogates received less than £15,000 compensation. At first glance, that might sound like a significant payment, but when one stops to consider what it may cover—loss of earnings, because some employers do not give maternity pay to surrogates, although the law was recently changed to allow them to do so; rent or mortgage payments; income for the surrogate’s existing children, which many of them have; and travel costs—it soon becomes obvious that those payments rarely cover more than expenses, and they are closely monitored by the courts. Surrogacy UK uses a surrogacy calculator to help surrogate and intended parents to estimate the degree of the likely costs, and that is how most surrogates want it. They are surrogates because they want to help people for whom pregnancy is impossible. Their motivation is much misunderstood, and they can well do without unjust accusations that money is a dominant factor in their decision-making, when for most of them it is not.

Time is short, so I will leave it to more learned noble Lords to explain how the current law on parental orders causes problems not just for families but for the judiciary.

The number of people involved in surrogacy in the UK is small. A few, non-commercial organisations are developing surrogacy. For example, Surrogacy UK runs a Friendship First programme in which potential surrogates and intended parents can meet and, free from pressure, work out whether they could have a successful, enduring relationship—a relationship in which there is openness, transparency and pride for the children, the intended parents and the surrogates.

I suggest to the Minister that the rules on surrogacy-related advertising and its criminalisation could and should be reviewed, but only for not-for-profit organisations. Only charities or social enterprises registered as community interest companies should be allowed to advertise, and they should be required to include evidence of their legal status on all advertising. Nobody who is campaigning for a change in the law today wants the development of commercial surrogacy; all they want is to enable more people who freely choose to do so to be involved in surrogacy.

Noble Lords will be aware of a case that came before the courts recently in which a single person who had entered into a surrogacy arrangement abroad could not be considered the legal parent of a child in this country. That law will have to be reviewed because of incompatibility with the Human Rights Act. I suggest to the Minister that challenges such as that will become more frequent. We could amend this law in a piecemeal fashion, but we really ought to take the opportunity to legislate for surrogacy on an entirely different basis: not as a transaction but as a relationship between surrogates and intended parents.

I know that the noble Baroness has been dropped in to cover at short notice, and I wish her well with that, but I want to ask her some questions. She may choose to write to me; I will understand. Will the Government encourage the Law Commission, whose consultation on this closed on 31 October, to include a review of surrogacy legislation in its next programme of work? Will they commit to review parental orders, including parental orders in cases in which neither partner has been able to use their own gametes—the so-called double donation orders? Will they agree that parental order and surrogacy birth data should be centrally and transparently collected and published annually, and that IVF surrogacy cycles and birth should be accurately recorded by fertility clinics and the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority?

We have shown the world that, in this field of assisted reproduction, it is possible to make laws that reflect the realities of modern life while protecting the best interests of children. Surrogacy is, and will remain, a matter of intense importance to a very few people, many of whom are often misunderstood. I submit that this is an area in which there will never be a widespread, popular clamour for change in the law. It is a matter which needs detailed consideration. It is one in which Members of your Lordships’ House, even those who disagree in principle, should be involved in lengthy debate. Above all, it needs the Government to put their shoulder behind law reform which, in the interests of children, is now urgent.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Tuesday 24th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, set out a hope that, one day, the gracious Speech might contain no legislation at all. I tend to share his view, not because of the speech itself—Her Majesty delivers that with all her customary grace—but because our debate days are so wide and sprawling that taking part in them is about as satisfying as punching a jelly. You might get a point through to the Minister, but something else will disappear.

I have listened to so many gracious Speeches that I tend these days to stand back and judge them by one criterion: what if I was a young person, not living in London but somewhere in a poor community? What would I get out of it and what hope would it give me? I think in those terms because I have spent my entire life in the charity and social enterprise sector. I have chosen to work there for two reasons. The first is that the charity and voluntary sector is where problems and issues of society first come to attention, because they are usually experienced by people who are from minorities. Secondly, they are the organisations in which it is possible to be innovative in finding solutions.

The charity sector had an annus horribilis last year. The Charities Aid Foundation has today produced a report that shows a £0.5 billion decrease in individual giving, which is not surprising given what happened last year. The state of funding across the piece for charities is actually quite interesting. Overall, it is up—there has been a very slight increase of about 3.4%. But behind that overall figure there is a story. Large charities—the top 100—are doing rather well, and that is because they are getting very big government contracts. Very small charities are not doing at all well. The charities that are in severe trouble and those that are closing are local and were previously dependent to a large extent on local authority funding. Imagine being the governor of one of these new prisons, with all the powers to do the marvellous and innovative things that you have been charged to do. When you open the doors of your prison, all the people in the organisations who used to be there to help integrate people into society and to sustain them when times are hard are not going to be there any more.

That is an interesting point when one realises that the level of volunteering among young people is increasing. Young people in the millennial cohort are now intent on putting right all the problems that they believe the previous generation—you and me—have caused, and they are busy volunteering much more than was ever the case in the past. Overall, volunteering levels in the whole community remain static but among young people they are up.

I have some questions for the Minister. The National Citizen Service, which has been welcomed but the results of which are as yet unproven, is being put on to a statutory basis and is being given funding. What evidence do the Government have that that is the correct way in which to support the aspirations of young people who want to help in their community? Is it evidence based or is it just a Government trying to secure one bit of their own agenda?

Charities would be churlish not to say thank you to the Government for changing the gift aid donation service. I was one of the people, along with Members of the Bishops’ Benches, who had the great privilege of taking that little piece of legislation through your Lordships’ House. To say that the system was Dickensian would be an understatement, so we are really pleased that it is changing. However, will the Government enable charities to increase their capacity to take digital donations? That is quite important.

One thing that caused a severe shock to the charity system was the Government’s decision to bring in the gagging clause earlier this year. The Government have now thought better of that decision and have agreed to have a review. Who will be engaged in that review and what will its terms be? When will it report, and will there be consultation on it?

Charities and social enterprises in this country have a great deal to give to our society. They have much to bring that is good, innovative and of great value in relation to many of the issues in the gracious Speech, such as adoption and prison reform. This is the Government who started out with a vision of a big society. Of late, they have acted like a big brother towards the charitable sector. Perhaps, with the help of those of us on this side of the House, they will become a big supporter of that very innovative bunch of people.

Elections: Campaigning

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Thursday 5th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I echo the words of the noble and right reverend Lord. I once again thank my noble friend Lord Hodgson for his work and thank the many organisations for the contributions they made to his report. The noble and right reverend Lord is absolutely right: this is a package of measures and we need to consider it carefully. There are 28 different recommendations, 13 of which require changes to primary legislation. This needs to be seen in the light of other reports on the last general election from the Electoral Commission and the Law Commission. We are looking at all these. I am unable to give a date with regard to what further steps may be taken but we are looking carefully at them.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, the transparency of lobbying Act implemented constituency-level controls on nationally declared spending by non-party campaigners. The review by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, endorses this approach. When will the Government make elections fair by introducing a limit on so-called national spending at a constituency level on targeted mail, battle buses and that sort of thing by political parties, including the Minister’s?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

As I say, we are carefully looking at all these recommendations and how they might be applied. Paragraph 6.14, on spending limits, states that:

“The Review found no evidence that the spending of third parties at the 2015 General Election was inhibited by”,

those spending limits. The paragraph continues:

“No third party spent up to the new limit”.

However, there are clearly concerns about this and the Government are considering their position.

Charities: Government Grants

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have adopted this policy following a lobbying campaign by the Institute of Economic Affairs, according to its 2014 accounts, funded by a source which it declines to disclose. Is it the Government’s intention that charities commissioned by the Government for their expertise will have their ability to influence government policy restricted, while charities funded by anonymous donors, such as tobacco companies, will not?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I slightly dispute the second point. I draw the noble Baroness’s attention to the fact that DCLG has used this clause in 56 contracts since February 2015. For example, the Church Urban Fund, which the noble and right reverend Lord will know, the LGA, Mencap and the Royal College of General Practitioners have all received grants under the new clause. Shelter, likewise, has received a grant, and is currently running its Power to Renters campaign. A number of noble Lords will no doubt have received communications from it as regards the housing Bill.

Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [HL]

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, as the Minister will recall, I had the privilege of chairing the Joint Committee that conducted pre-legislative examination of what was then called the Protection of Charities Bill. I cast my mind back to a year ago, when our committee was still sitting and considering the terms of our report. It is a pleasure to see some members of my committee in the House this afternoon. It is against that background that I pay my own tribute to the Minister and his Bill team for bringing the Bill to this stage: we are now truly at the last lap. One of our main concerns was that there should be no delay in the legislation we were examining. It is a great pleasure to see that matters have been taken this far forward with the changes made.

The only amendment I wish to comment on—I do not want to arouse too much controversy about this—is Amendment 2. I listened with great care to what the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town, said and I appreciate the concern on the point she mentioned. However, the one feature I stress is that we did not as a committee have the chance to examine Clause 9. As the noble Lord said, that was introduced to the Bill on Report. It is the kind of clause that, speaking for myself, we would have wanted to examine with great care because of not only its implications on the point that the noble Baroness made but also its width. It is completely unqualified. If it had been more precisely targeted, we might have been a little more inclined to support it. I rather suspect that a clause as general as this would impose a very great burden on the Charity Commission. To a large extent, because of the protection of charity law generally, the clause would not be needed. I stress that I speak only for myself but I am relieved, against the background of what I have mentioned and having heard the Minister explain the reasons for it, that this amendment has come forward. I very much support it. My main point in rising to speak at all was to express my thanks and appreciation for the fact that we are now at this stage, in effect bringing the matter to an end.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, congratulate the Minister on getting his first piece of legislation through to its conclusion. I thank him also for the way in which he took us through the amendments today.

I will concentrate initially on one aspect of these amendments that has not so far been discussed: Amendments 3, 4 and 5, dealing with matters to do with the rehabilitation of offenders. I and other members of the committee had great sympathy with the case made to us by the charity Unlock about the problems that this Bill would pose particularly for charities that specialise in the rehabilitation of offenders. Their great concern was that up to approximately 50,000 people in this country with past convictions would find themselves now unable to take part in the process of being a trustee, even though they had committed those offences some considerable time ago and had managed to rehabilitate themselves. Last week in court there was a ruling on the matter of the severity of minor offences and their duration in relation to people having to make declarations. I rather suspect that, if that judgment is upheld, this legislation will have to be revisited fairly swiftly. I simply draw that to noble Lords’ attention.

Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [HL]

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Monday 14th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, in the context of the regulation of funding and the regulatory framework for charities, I have a brief question for my noble friend of which I have given him notice. On Report, my noble friend gave a number of commitments to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, myself and the whole House on the question of public benefit. A lot of work has been done on this during the summer. He said that the Charity Commission would issue new guidance on public benefit and running a charity, that it would do further work on public benefit reporting guidance, that the ISC was going to provide guidance, that the Charity Commission would undertake a 12-month research programme and the ISC would launch a website this autumn. All of that would then be subject to a debate a year on, when the House could see how much progress was being made.

It is appropriate to mention to the House that a lot of work has been done. I could not be more grateful personally, and all those interested in the subject will also be grateful to the ISC and the Charity Commission for a very good start. We hope that, as the Opposition Front Benchers made clear during the latter stages of the debate, the website will be proactive regarding the facilities and engagement with local communities and be a point of contact—an effective method of linking with their local communities schools with charitable status and outstanding facilities.

I am certain that noble Lords in all parts of the House will continue to push for change not just in the sports world but in the arts world, and for engagement between schools that are endowed with superb facilities, excellent teachers and coaches, and the wider community. I would therefore be grateful if the Minister took this opportunity to update the House on the work undertaken during the summer and join me in offering congratulations on the good start, although there is clearly a long road to travel before we achieve the sort of developments that are essential to meet the mood expressed in the House in a number of previous debates. We must ensure that we have the material necessary to have a full debate in a year’s time.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, it has been a pretty miserable summer for the charitable sector and it has not been a great summer for the Charity Commission either. It is in the nature of being a charity to go through periods of being tested, and good charities come out the other side a lot stronger. One can but hope that that will happen as a result of what has transpired over the past few months.

I am not a member of this august committee—I never made it to the shortlist—but I had the great privilege of attending one of its sessions. It was really interesting—one of the most interesting breakfast discussions that I have had for a very long time. While it was absolutely true, as the noble Lord, Lord Leigh of Hurley, said—he was also present on that occasion—that some people still did not quite get it, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, said, a lot of people in the charitable world now absolutely understand that they cannot continue as before and that things must change.

I applaud the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, as it is keeping the pressure up on the issue, but I think that it is premature in terms of process. What was most interesting over the summer was the number of people who wanted to chat to me about the ongoing issues. Time and again, people within the charitable sector talked not just about the severe economic pressures but their wish that that sector could be better than the commercial sector and better regulated than the private sector.

I hope that the report from Sir Stuart Etherington’s committee is hard hitting, not ambiguous in any way and issues a real challenge to charities. I am mindful that charities have to continue to raise funds and that people want to continue to donate to them. Although the reputation of individual charities has taken a battering over the summer, they are still among the most efficient and effective organisations tackling some of the biggest problems in our society.

The Charity Commission has not covered itself in glory this summer either, and I want to think long and hard about what responsibilities were given to it and the reserve powers to oversee fundraising. Charities know about the lives of vulnerable people much better than anybody else, and I want to give them the chance to come forward with a regulatory system that is better than the private sector’s.

I, too, add my congratulations to the Minister, who has conducted himself throughout our proceedings in the most exemplary way. He has been extremely good to work with and I thank him very much. In saying that, I do not want him to accept the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and I ask him to ensure that, when the Bill returns from the Commons, we are given sufficient time, through the usual channels, to pay detailed attention to these matters.

[Lord Low of Dalston (CB)]

My Lords, I refer to my interests, which are declared in the register: I am vice-president of the RNIB and have had a long-standing involvement in the charity sector; and, most recently, I have been asked to chair a commission by ACEVO— the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organisations—on better charity regulation.

I have not taken a large part in the proceedings on this Bill because I felt that its provisions were pretty uncontroversial. Indeed, that has emerged from the debates as the Bill has gone through its various stages. It has been discussed in matters of detail but the proposals have been broadly—indeed, widely—welcomed. I, too, pay tribute to the Minister for how he has conducted the debates on the Bill. He was kind enough to consult me at an early stage to take my views about the Bill. I appreciated that very much, and I appreciate how he has conducted the Bill from the point of view of the Government.

I was not planning to speak today at Third Reading but, listening to the debate, as I have been, I am prompted to make just one remark. It is perfectly true that charities have not had a very good summer, particularly on fundraising, but we have to be careful of tarring all charities with the same brush. I am sure that noble Lords have not intended to do that, but we need to be aware of it—I am sure that Sir Stuart Etherington’s committee will be. The charities sector reflects a good deal of diversity. It is important that we register the point that, as well as the bad practice that has been exposed, there is still quite a lot of good practice among charities. It is important that we retain a sense of perspective in that light.

Kids Company

Baroness Barker Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Barker]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they intend to take as a result of the closure of Kids Company.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

My Lords, the welfare of the young people who used Kids Company services has always been and continues to be our top priority. We are working with local authorities, charities and youth clubs in Lambeth, Southwark, Camden and Bristol to support young people with the services they need. Meanwhile, investigations into Kids Company are being conducted first by the official receiver and then by the Charity Commission.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. A cursory examination of the Kids Company annual reports, which are available on the Charity Commission website, shows that the organisation repeatedly ignored warnings that failure to put money into its reserves was putting the charity at risk. Does the Minister agree that that is a significant failure on the part of the regulator, which had the information and did nothing, and that that should be the subject of a future inquiry, as should the Government’s continued funding of an organisation that was clearly inadequately managed?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

My Lords, I should like to say first that obviously the noble Baroness speaks with a great deal of experience of the sector, so I take great note of what she is saying. She needs no reminding, but I would like to stress that it is ultimately the legal responsibility of a charity’s trustees to protect the charity and its assets. The Charity Commission has neither the legal authority nor the ability to assess the financial health of the more than 160,000 registered charities; that is the job of each charity’s trustees. However, I hear what the noble Baroness is saying. As I have mentioned, the Charity Commission will be conducting a statutory inquiry into Kids Company, and I am sure that it will wish to consider what lessons the sector as a whole and the commission itself might learn from this episode.