Brexit

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their current assessment of the prospects for reaching a Brexit agreement with the European Union by March 2019.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, as the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU said when closing the fourth round of negotiations, we have made considerable progress on the issues that matter, increasing certainty for citizens and businesses. Thanks to the constructive and determined manner of both sides in negotiations, we are making decisive steps forward. Both parties want to achieve the best possible outcome and the strongest possible partnership for the future by March 2019.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

Yes, but when are the Government, at long last, going to produce viable proposals for the Irish border which will also be acceptable to the Irish Government and the Dáil?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, there has been a very firm, fair and collaborative discussion about the issue of Northern Ireland. The most recent discussions continue to be constructive and we have made progress in some areas. For example, we have begun drafting joint principles on preserving the common travel area and associated rights, and have continued building on the general principles of ensuring that there is no hindrance at the border.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister give us her current assessment of the prospect of reaching an agreement on Brexit within the Conservative Party by March 2019?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Cabinet has made it clear that it is fully in support of the Prime Minister.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

And that is the way it is going to stay.

[Lord Higgins (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it would speed up negotiations if the British Government put forward quite specific and quantitative proposals with regard to what we think any exit payment ought to be?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks from his background of work in the Treasury. There is a move from the Commission to change the rules of the game. The rules set out at the start of the negotiations were that we should have sufficient progress by this stage. Suddenly, some members and parties are saying that we should have agreed a particular sum. This is more than horse-trading; it is the future of our country. We are having a technical and detailed discussion that will bear fruit.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, going back to Northern Ireland, does the Minister agree that the only way to stop there being any border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is for us to be members of the customs union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is a fact that as we leave the European Union we are not going to cherry pick one or more of the four freedoms—the Commission has made it clear that that is not acceptable and we understand and abide by that. However, we do seek a strong customs partnership. We cannot be in a customs union unless we have all the other freedoms, and, of course, contribute to the budget, without having a say in it: that is not the British way.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister say what effort the Government made before triggering Article 50 to ensure that they would be able to discuss with our partners in the EU the new partnership straightaway? If they did not make any such efforts, was not that a little foolhardy?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, when we triggered Article 50 it was at a time when we had already heard extensive analysis of a range of issues that we knew would be the subject of discussion in reaching an agreement on our withdrawal from the European Union. That includes, as I have mentioned at the Dispatch Box in the past, an analysis of more than 50 sectors of the economy. An extraordinary amount of detailed work has been carried out, which is why we have been able to publish a raft of papers this summer.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister allowed herself to think again about holding an early general election. Why will she therefore not allow people to think again about the advisability of Brexit once they know the facts?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I remind the noble Baroness, who is also a friend, that her party, which stood for that in the last election, got hammered.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that we all have cause to be grateful for the calm, prudent, constructive contribution of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in these talks?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Yes, my Lords. I have seen that close up because I was fortunate enough to be briefed throughout the summer by officials from the Treasury about the patient, technical work that they have been carrying out to ensure that when we are able to reach agreement not only on principles but on practice, the result will be fair for this country as well as for the rest of the European Union.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, as we know, the European Parliament will get a vote on the final deal. It has passed a resolution saying that it does not consider that sufficient progress has been made to go on to the all-important trade negotiations. The Bank of England, agriculture, industry, higher education and UK citizens all want progress. Is it not time to put the national interest first and make real progress on these talks so that we can get on to the deep trade ones?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we have made great progress—we would say sufficient progress—to be able to proceed with the next stage of our negotiations. Of course, as the noble Baroness will certainly recall, Article 50 specifically says that discussions on the withdrawal agreement should be against a background of discussions about the future partnership. We are ready, willing and able, and it is time now for the European Commission to be more flexible to be ready for the next stage.

[Lord Trimble (Con)]

My Lords, to return to the question of the two parts of Ireland, does my noble friend recall that Monsieur Barnier, after publication of Her Majesty’s Government’s proposals, said that the European Union was opposed to an invisible border? Surely there will be no progress on this issue until Europe changes its mind.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my noble friend, who has some of the best experience of the issues of importance to Northern Ireland, raises a crucial point. Flexibility is important from the Commission and also from other members of the European 27. A political decision will ultimately make the difference. It is worth noting that the Motion in the European Parliament to which the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, referred a moment ago proposed that one part of the United Kingdom—Northern Ireland—could remain in the single market and the customs union, thereby breaking up the United Kingdom. That cannot be a way forward.