Social Media: Non-consensual Sexual Deepfakes

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Wednesday 14th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lloyd of Effra (Lab)]

These are serious offences and the noble Lord is right that there is consensus on this. The decisions on prosecution and sentencing are for the police and courts. They should know that, as we have said, they have our support in taking that action.

[Baroness Keeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s announcement that they are bringing legislation into force this week to tackle this issue, and I welcome the news that Ofcom has launched a formal investigation to determine whether X has complied with its duties under the Online Safety Act. Ofcom should act urgently on this. I also support the Government’s intention to act on gaps identified in our online safety legislation, such as the fact that not all chatbots are covered.

I commend my noble friend Lady Owen of Alderley Edge for her work on banning deepfakes through amendments to the Data (Use and Access) Bill, and her excellent continuing work on this issue. There is an issue about the lack of transparency in how chatbots such as Grok are trained. As I understand it, if an image or multimodal model can generate non-consensual sexual imagery or deepfake pornography, it is certain that the model was trained on large, uncurated web scrapes where such material is common. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that this gives new impetus to the Government tackling the issue of transparency in the training of AI models, which is a matter we are looking at on the Communications and Digital Select Committee in terms of the transparency needed to deal with issues of AI copyright? This is a new and very pressing part of that issue.

[Baroness Lloyd of Effra (Lab)]

My noble friend raises good questions about training and testing. As she will also know, we are bringing forward measures in the Crime and Policing Bill that will allow testing in certain narrow circumstances, so that developers can make sure that the models they bring forward are not able to disseminate these kinds of awful images or CSAM. These are very important things and we are working very carefully with others to find the right regime for these models.

Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Consideration of Lords message
Tuesday 21st May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Richard Thomson]

Perhaps the Minister will be able to deal with that question when he responds to the debate. Certainly the measure might bring a bit more resource, but it will also spread the resource for the CMA that little bit more thinly. The fact that the rules are not working as effectively as they need to has been evidenced in previous debates, when we have heard of obscure charging practices, of pressure to pay with countdown timers, and of the exorbitant end prices that often result.

The Government amendment is fine as far as it goes. It might bring a little more resource to the problem and a more strategic capability when tackling rule-breakers. I also gave two cheers when the Minister announced the promise of an inquiry at the tail end of the previous debate, but the Government are still not taking those practical measures that could be taken today with amendment 104B to clean up the marketplace for secondary ticketing.

Amendment 104B would involve measures such as a requirement to provide proof of purchase or evidence of title for the tickets for sale, which would forbid resellers from selling more tickets than they would legally have been able to purchase from the primary market. It would ensure that the face value and end price paid are clearly visible, along with the name and trading address of those doing the secondary vending. Crucially, it would also allow secondary legislation to be introduced, which could take account of and bring in anything from the inquiry that the Minister has announced, and it would compel the Secretary of State to have concluded that work within nine months. Contrary to what the Minister says, I believe that the measures in Lords amendment 104B are proportionate and add clearly to the existing Bill.

Lord amendment 104B is a bit like Lords amendment 104 which came before it. Indeed, it is almost the holy grail of amendments—it is popular, it does not cost anything, and more to the point it would be effective and do the right things in the right way for the right reasons. I do not think I am speaking out of turn when I say that hardly any Government in these isles, whether Labour in Wales, the SNP in Scotland or the Conservatives at UK level, are so overwhelmed with public support and good will at this time that they can afford to turn down good ideas when they are presented to them on a plate. It is therefore baffling that the Government would seek once again to steer these practical and effective measures off the road and into the ditch.

I will conclude my remarks by remarking on the “Dear Colleague” letter that was sent from the Minister yesterday, in which he expressed a clear desire to get the Bill on to the statue book without delay. Not a single Member of the House looking at the Bill in its totality would want it to be delayed, but we want it to go forward into legislation in as strong a form as it can be. That, for me, clearly means going forward in a way that can tackle the egregious abuses of people’s trust, and the reasonable expectations they have when they participate in the secondary ticketing market. Accepting the Lords amendment would allow everyone to do that, and I hope the Government will take heed of the genuine strength of view that exists on this matter, not just within this House or the other place, but outside and among the population at large, and that they will allow the Bill to progress as amended accordingly.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I rise to support Lords Amendment 104B, which seeks to safeguard fans from the fraudulent abuse that is rife in the secondary ticketing market. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant), I am really disappointed that the Government have repeatedly refused to accept the amendments to the Bill tabled by Lord Moynihan. In fact, for many years before that, they have failed to act as advised by my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) and her colleagues on the all-party parliamentary group on ticket abuse, supported by FanFair Alliance.

The Lords amendment includes the minimum of protection that fans deserve. It would ensure that anyone reselling a ticket has to show evidence that they have bought the ticket in the first place. As we have been hearing, that is a big issue in the secondary market, where ticket touts often list tickets that they do not own. The Lords amendment also aims to stop touts from listing more tickets to an event than they can legally purchase from the primary market.

If the Minister looks at Viagogo’s listings for BBC Radio 1 upcoming Big Weekend, he will see that touts based in Germany are selling more than 10 times as many tickets as can legally be acquired. He has said that measures to do anything about that are unenforceable, but that should not be an excuse. We cannot be standing here in this House and saying that a law that we could pass is unenforceable—it is ridiculous.

Another important measure in the Lords amendment is provision for a review to be published within nine months of the Bill passing. That is an urgent issue, and the Government must be ambitious in acting to tackle it.

I point out again to the Minister that action to crack down on ticket touting has significant support from the music industry and fans. Regulating against exploitative secondary ticketing practices is part of the manifestos put forward by music industry bodies including Live music Industry Venues and Entertainment and UK Music.

Many promoters, artist managers, venues and musicians have been highly critical of the market as it currently operates and called on the Government for urgent action to tackle the problem, but it is not just a problem for the music industry; foremost, as we have heard, it is an issue for fans. It is now commonplace for fans to miss out on tickets to sporting and cultural events only to see those same tickets on sale on a secondary ticketing site for far more money than they can afford.

With about a third of UK ticket buyers in the lowest socioeconomic bands, those inflated prices are reinforcing inequalities. The price of a ticket can make a significant difference to social and cultural inclusion, in some cases enabling marginalised or disadvantaged groups the opportunity to access events.

It is important that many venues and artists now endeavour to widen access to tickets by through-ticket pricing to certain groups, but that approach is undermined when touts use software to restrict fans’ access to the primary market and then force them on to resale sites such as Viagogo, which charge prices at the top of what consumers can bear, as we have been hearing. For example—this is disgraceful—I have been told that touts will buy up discounted tickets intended for young people, for people in wheelchairs, for carers and for others, and sell them on at the going rate on the secondary market to increase their profit margins. That has a serious impact on those consumers, who are then refused entry at the door, as well as impacting on the venue or artists that had subsidised tickets, and on the people for whom the lower priced tickets had been intended and who can no longer afford to attend the show.

I have spoken about music so far, but touting also affects other live events such as sport. Most recently, we have seen Viagogo listing up to 100 tickets for the England versus Iceland friendly at Wembley on 7 June, despite the fact that listing football tickets is illegal on unauthorised platforms—including Viagogo’s platform—for reasons of the safety of fans. When The Guardian journalist Rob Davies highlighted the listings on social media, Viagogo took down the tickets straightaway. Resale platforms should not be waiting to be caught out before complying with the law, but that is what we are seeing.

Another example of a secondary resale site having to be pushed into acting by media coverage was a recent BBC “Watchdog” report that raised concerns that some customers have not been able to receive a refund from Viagogo after being sent invalid tickets. Beth from Salisbury told the programme that she had booked a trip to Singapore to see her husband’s favourite band Coldplay as a thank you to him for his unwavering support during her cancer treatment. The two tickets to the show were bought through Viagogo for £500, but when the tickets arrived, the piece of paper said

“this is not a valid ticket”.

When she tried to get a refund, she was refused, despite the fact that Viagogo has a guarantee, apparently. In fact, it only refunded Beth’s money for the faulty ticket after the BBC “Watchdog” report. Given the weight of evidence of market dysfunction, which we have heard here and in the other place, it is disappointing that the Minister insists that the Government are already doing enough. If that is the case, why not agree to the amendment and see what comes out in the review?

[Sir Philip Davies]

The hon. Lady is making a good argument for what the Minister said—ensuring better enforcement of existing regulations. That seems to be the thrust of her argument, and what the Government say that they are delivering.

[Barbara Keeley]

It is just not happening. As we heard the last time we debated this issue a few weeks ago, just six people have been convicted of ticketing fraud—four of them in the past week. The exploitative practices that my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) and I have talked about continue to be rife on resale platforms. The Minister must accept that this derisory and dismal record must not continue. Labour has committed to a range of strong measures to crack down on ticket touts and fix this broken system for fans. Will the Government start to accept the weight of evidence and do the same?

[Mrs Hodgson]

I am thrilled to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), who has done so much work on this matter in the past few years, especially since she took on the brief. She made an excellent speech.

Here we are again. I see that we have been joined by the hon. Member for Shipley (Sir Philip Davies), who back in 2011 did the terrible thing—he might not think it was, but I do—of talking out my private Member’s Bill, the Sale of Tickets (Sporting and Cultural Events) Bill. If it had been passed, we would not be here today, because we would have already fixed this broken market well over a decade ago. I welcome him to his place—I know he likes to keep an eye on his handiwork.

Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 30th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I will just finish this answer. There have been two sentences. Two people got a £6.1 million fine. There were four more successful prosecutions in Leeds Crown court only very recently, and sentence is due to be imposed on those individuals. The hon. Lady raises important points, and did great work on the all-party parliamentary group, and I will always listen to her. We are undertaking a review looking at primary and secondary markets, and she will have every chance to give her input to that review, just as anybody else will. I look forward to hearing her representations.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Government claim that they are doing enough, but that is just not the case. Here is an example for the Minister: on secondary ticketing sites, three tickets for the Taylor Swift show on 21 June are going for £72,000. They had a face value of £170 each. How is the market working?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I agree that some of the examples are shocking. The key question is what measures we will put in place to address them. Ireland, for example, completely banned secondary sales, yet the prices seen on the internet are equivalent to what the hon. Lady describes, so there is no perfect solution that has already been tried. However, we are very happy to look at the evidence, look at what might be done, and do something that is effective, rather than crowd-pleasing. That is what we are committed to doing.

The reality is that some organisers are simply much more successful than others at preventing large-scale unauthorised resales. The ticket market is clearly evolving rapidly. Our review will therefore consider evidence from businesses and platforms operating in ticketing and resale markets, as well as venues, artists, enforcers and consumers. The Government intend the review to take place over nine months, after which we will consider any appropriate further action. [Hon. Members: “You won’t be there.”] Members who are commenting from a sedentary position should beware of overconfidence.

I very much hope that hon. Members will support the Government’s position today. I especially hope that Members in both Houses will note our movement in two important areas: the Secretary of State’s approval of CMA guidance for the new digital markets regime, and secondary ticketing. These changes are considered and balanced, and I urge Members in the other place to consider their position on the other amendments that our motions today seek to reject. Throughout the Bill’s passage, the Government have listened carefully to the arguments presented, and in response, we have made a series of significant changes where we recognise that improvements could be made. It is important that we now reach full consensus on the Bill’s final form, so that it reaches the statute book without further delay.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Chris Bryant]

I completely agree, and that is Labour party policy. I am used to fallacies being written about me, and I have seen many written about my hon. Friend as well. I am sure we will all get over it. Incidentally, that is why, as I shall come on to say later, it is very important that we have a free press that is able to say what it wants, free from the intervention of state owners from other countries.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course, it is perfectly legitimate for somebody who has bought a couple of tickets for Saturday night and who suddenly finds that they are ill, that they have to go to a family engagement or that they have bought tickets for the wrong night to be able to sell them on at face value, or perhaps for a little bit more simply to cover the cost of administration and things like that. However, this is a market that is not working. It is an example of market failure, not an example of market success.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Sir Chris Bryant]

I feel more fingernails.

[Barbara Keeley]

My fingernails are nothing like as bad. Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem is actually worse than just the prices he quoted, of which he gave some really good and powerful examples, because of the selling of tickets that do not actually exist—fraudulent tickets? I have heard from a number of venues about the selling of tickets that should go to carers or young people. People are turning up at events such as those at the O2 and other venues with these tickets and being turned away, often when they have travelled to London and paid for hotels. So there is all the disappointment and the financial loss of that on top of the ticket prices.

[Sir Chris Bryant]

I completely agree, and my hon. Friend is absolutely right. There are terrible instances of all sorts of different scams, and—this is the honest truth—remarkably few prosecutions. Whether the number is two, four or five, it should be in the hundreds. [Interruption.] Six—half a dozen—great!

The truth is that we all know instances from our constituencies of people who have faced precisely these problems. I have had constituents say to me, “I feel too embarrassed to own up to having bought these tickets.” I remember going past the Millennium stadium in Cardiff, or Arms Park in the old days, and we all despised the ticket touts, just as we did outside a Kate Bush concert or whatever. Sometimes, however, we were just so desperate that we bought the tickets, and they of course turned out to be fraudulent or non-existent, or they were allocated to specific kinds of people that did not include us. All those points are worth making, and I would add this one: all local authorities have trading standards offices but many are now so depleted because of the state of local government finances that it is very difficult for anybody to get proper recompense and a deal.

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[Damian Collins]

My right hon. and learned Friend makes an important point. We could have a digital service provided for free, self-preferenced by a big company, offering a new service to its customers—how could there be a consumer detriment in that? But a consequence of that could be constriction of the market and the driving out of other businesses. The mobile mapping market is a really good example: Google Maps and Apple Maps totally dominate a market that used to have multiple competing companies in it. Now it does not, and there could be future consumer detriment in that.

That is why it is important that this is an ex-ante regime, which anticipates not just the detriment that may exist now, but future consequences. That is such an important principle for digital markets, which have tended to see the consolidation of market power in the hands of a relatively small number of players, who often do not compete against each other directly but dominate certain sections of the market, be it through the mobile ad market, search and retail.

There are only in effect two app stores, and given the lack of interoperability, they are virtually monopolies. We see those things already, and the development of large language model systems and the massive acquisition of data required for AI to run them is consolidating that market largely into the hands of the five or six companies that have enough data to be effective operators within it. That means that, in the future digital market world, any challenger tech developer will have to access its market and customers through the services provided by a relatively small number of companies. That is important.

I would be grateful if the Minister said in winding up whether he believes that the Bill offers a better balance. Has that balance changed, or has it not, and it is just a question of language and interpretation of meaning? What does it mean? I hope we all agree that, through making this change, we are not seeking to open up the legislation to wider judicial challenge, with more ruling through the courts, more lengthy delays and costs to try to bring forward the CMA’s interventions.

[Barbara Keeley]

I rise to speak against the Government motion to disagree with Lords amendment 104. As we have already heard, the amendment seeks to safeguard fans from fraudulent abuse, which is rife in the secondary ticketing market. It is an important amendment on an issue that, as we have heard—it is worth saying again—has had much work invested in it by my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) and her colleagues on the all-party parliamentary group on ticket abuse. It also had great attention in the music industry, which is loud in its support for tackling ticket touting. Anyone who has tried to buy a ticket for a popular concert knows the frustration of losing out on tickets, only then to see the same tickets at 10 times the price on the secondary market.

Touting goes deeper than mere frustrations: it prices fans out of attending music, cultural and sports events; it damages the relationship between venue, artist and fan; and it undermines confidence in our live music industry. Yet, despite the calls of major UK music industry bodies, including UK Music and Live music Industry Venues & Entertainment, the Government have consistently failed to act.

Last year, the Government rejected the recommendations of the Competition and Markets Authority to strengthen legislation and protect UK consumers from illegal practices in the secondary ticketing market. At the time, the CMA warned that unless there was reform, illegal reselling prices would become worse. Lords amendment 104 would implement the recommendations of the Competition and Markets Authority to provide safeguards for consumers. Those are basic protections, such as ensuring that a reseller cannot sell more tickets than they can legally purchase on the primary market, and ensuring that tickets cannot be sold without proof of purchase. It is deeply disappointing that the Government cannot commit even to those basic safeguards.

Under the Government’s watch, the situation has become much worse. In 2007, there were an estimated 150 full-time ticket touts in the UK. Now there are about 4,000 touts attacking ticket systems for UK events, using bots to harvest tickets in bulk. Instead of being used as a resale platform for fans who can no longer make it to an event, ticketing websites are increasingly being used by large-scale touts who harvest tickets on the primary platform—using bots to skip the queue—and sell them on at many times the original price, sometimes speculatively. Ordinary fans do not stand a chance against that; they are the ones who are losing out. The situation has become so bad that police forces in some areas are having to launch public awareness campaigns warning about ticket touts after hundreds of reports of ticket fraud.

Lloyds Banking Group was recently forced to issue a warning to its customers about the risk of buying resold tickets after 600 of its customers reported being scammed when they tried to buy resale tickets for Taylor Swift’s Eras tour. It has been estimated that resale for the UK leg of that tour alone has led to more than £1 million being lost to fraudsters so far. That is happening despite clear messaging from the promoters of the tour that resale tickets bought outside approved channels will be turned away at the door.

As I said earlier, the Government can claim that they are doing enough, and the Minister seems happy with that, but he should look again at those secondary ticketing sites, where he will see three tickets for Taylor Swift’s show on 21 June going for over £72,000. That obviously shows a completely malfunctioning, dysfunctional market.

The Minister cannot claim that the market is functioning for fans and artists—it is actually functioning for touts and the platforms they use. Lords amendment 104 is just one measure that would begin to counter the damage done by ticket touts. I am glad to say that Labour has now committed to going a step further.

Labour would significantly strengthen consumer rights legislation to restrict the resale of tickets at more than a small set percentage over the price the original purchaser paid for it, including fees. Labour would limit the number of tickets that individual resellers can list to the number that individuals can legitimately buy via the original platform. Labour would make platforms accountable for the accuracy of information about the tickets they list for sale, and would ensure that the Competition and Markets Authority has the powers it needs to take swift and decisive action against platforms and touts in order to protect consumers.

The Minister cannot keep sticking his head in the sand. As the Competition and Markets Authority warned in 2021, illegal reselling practices have become worse due to a lack of action. We are now getting to a situation where artists and venues are on the cusp of losing the ability to sell tickets to genuine fans at an affordable price, and working families are being priced out of seeing their favourite artists or their favourite sports team.

Music, culture and sports events must not just be for the elite—the people who can afford thousands of pounds. How can the Government and the Minister justify their opposition to Lords amendments that would keep open access for fans to sport, to arts and to culture? I hope that he will listen to Opposition Members and not press the motion to disagree with this reasonable and modest amendment.

[Mrs Hodgson]

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate, and it is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), who is doing some great work in this area, formulating our policy for when we will hopefully be in government after the election. I am speaking in the debate in my capacity as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on ticket abuse and to support Lords amendment 104, which relates to the secondary ticketing market.

Before I begin, I reiterate that the sole purpose of the amendment is to protect British consumers from organised crime and to reduce the harm caused by the unlawful and exploitative activities of online ticket touts. Aspects of the amendment have already been recommended by the Competition and Markets Authority, which recognised back in 2021 that the UK needs stronger legislation to tackle the resale of tickets. It is not just me who has been banging on about this since forever—the CMA is also calling for it, having looked at the market for many years.

It has to be said that Lords amendment 104 will not come with any cost to the UK taxpayer either. If it fails to become law, the only beneficiaries will be scammers, fraudsters and the overseas websites that they operate from. So Members will be voting either in the interests of the British public or in the interests of ticket touts.

The Minister said in his opening remarks that all Opposition Members are doing is crowd-pleasing; I am sure I heard his words correctly. I think he will find that the crowd all have votes. This has been a fan-led campaign. Perhaps pleasing the crowd is not always a bad idea. We are here to represent the people, after all. For too long, this Government have allowed an online black market for ticket resale to thrive via websites such as Viagogo, StubHub, Gigsberg, Ticombo and Seatsnet. The public—the crowd, as the Minister called them—are sick to death of it.

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[Kevin Hollinrake]

We believe those provisions are already there. I have quite happily used Viagogo on many occasions, as other people have when reselling tickets. Of course we will keep looking at the primary and secondary markets, and at the interaction between the two, so that we can develop the right way to regulate the market, in a future Parliament.

[Barbara Keeley]

On that point, will the Minister give way?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I will come to the hon. Lady’s points in a moment.

On the things we are doing to hold big tech to account, I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose) that the fire burns brightly in me. I do not think we have moved away in any material way from ensuring that this legislation is fit for purpose and does what it sets out to do. As I said in response to his earlier intervention, we do not believe there is any bleed-across between the merits-based approach to penalties and other regulatory interventions. The revised wording about the countervailing benefits exemption did not change the effects of the clause and did not change the guidance in the explanatory notes.

As my hon. Friend is aware, we are doing a lot of work on regulation. We have engaged on regular occasions to ensure that gets to where he wants. On costs and benefits, he will have noticed we brought forward the growth duty for our economic regulators quite recently, as well as the smart data road map. I know he waits with bated breath for the White Paper that will come forward shortly.

I thank the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) for his support for the legislation. We do not think the change from conduct is indispensable to the benefits; benefits could not be realised without the conduct materially changing the position in any way.

My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) said that we had moved to a different balance. I do not think I said that; I am happy to clarify my remarks about proportionality. We have provided more certainty and clarity around that position, which we always thought was part of the way the CMA would make its decisions. He made points about how the regulator would view, for example, the significant charges made across the Xbox platforms, which both charge 30% to the people who have e-commerce through those payment systems. As he said, businesses might not think that is too much, but we both know that it is not businesses that pay that ultimately, but consumers. The requirement for the CMA to make interventions for the benefit of consumers is in its very DNA, so I think it would act in those situations.

The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) talked about the secondary ticketing position. I hear her points, and the points raised by the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), very clearly.

[Barbara Keeley]

I counsel the Minister against what he is doing. As his colleague in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport team did recently at oral questions, he is repeating the arguments that the platforms use. It is sad to hear Ministers repeating the same lines that a global chief officer of Viagogo came out with when they were over here. In Ireland, fraud activity has not increased—because the legislation is working., and that is why there are no prosecutions in Ireland. We would be in that situation if we had that legislation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West probably wants to point out, it is alright to say that the use of bots is illegal, but nobody is being prosecuted for the illegal use of bots to wholesale-buy tickets; it is happening, so I counsel the Minister and his ministerial colleagues’ against their constant repetitions, which are not plausible to anybody outside.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

The hon. Lady is right to say that there is a difference between legislation and enforcement. We urge the authorities that have responsibility to enforce those provisions to make use of them. In Ireland, where the resale of tickets has been banned, inflated prices are still a feature of the ticket markets. Tickets for Taylor Swift’s Dublin shows are selling well in excess of their face price on the internet in Ireland, but no prosecutions have been made.

Football Index Collapse: Lessons Learned

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2024 Westminster Hall

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate with you in the Chair, Mrs Murray. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) on leading the debate and on her excellent work on this issue. I have two constituents who were affected by the collapse of Football Index in 2021. One told me he had lost £20,000 as a result. He said:

“I am a father and soon-to-be husband whose family has been swindled by the stress, guilt and shame which this has brought me in such an important part of mine and my family’s life. This has put me in some very dark places and I have had thoughts and stress like I’ve never experienced before.”

Failings by a number of organisations led to this impact on customers, which was highlighted in the Government’s independent report into the regulation of Football Index, led by Malcolm Sheehan KC. First, the report found that BetIndex Ltd, which traded as Football Index, did not properly notify the Gambling Commission of the nature of its product in its licence application, and nor did it inform the commission of changes to its product as it should have done.

Secondly, the report found that the Gambling Commission could have responded better, including through better scrutiny of the product offered by BetIndex in 2015, better monitoring of the development of the product, and quicker decision making once it identified in 2019 that BetIndex appeared to be operating outside the scope of its licence. Indeed, as my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon said earlier, if the platform had been taken down in 2019, that would have saved money being lost by a number of the victims. Thirdly, the report identified areas of improvement for the Financial Conduct Authority, including its speed of response to requests from the Gambling Commission and the consistency of messaging on its regulatory responsibilities.

It is welcome that the Government have committed to implementing the review’s recommendations and that, in September 2021, the Gambling Commission and the Financial Conduct Authority agreed an amended memorandum of understanding, including on response timetables and the process for escalation of unresolved issues. However, I understand that people such as my constituents, and so many others, still feel very upset and angry at the loss of capital as a result of the collapse of Football Index.

Some believe that there were further failings by the regulatory bodies that were not identified in that independent review. In particular, people feel misled about the nature of the product they were using. One constituent told me about

“the magnitude of the deception that took place by the Football Index, which positioned and promoted itself as a safe investment with ‘guaranteed yields’.”

They also said:

“This attracted a significant number of users who were wholly misled as to the nature of the Football Index product and the degree of safeguards pertaining to its regulation.”

There is a need to improve financial literacy to help counteract financial products that are purposely misleading and confusing, and aimed at exploiting customers for greater profit. Unless lessons are learned from the collapse of Football Index, there exists a risk that a similar situation could emerge through new platforms.

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon and others present, I am particularly concerned by reports about the new trading platform KiX, which is using Football Index as a proof of concept. The Times has reported that KiX is being advised by the co-founder and chief executive of Football Index, Adam Cole. As we have heard, users of KiX will be able to trade footballers using non-fungible tokens, but because KiX is a decentralised, autonomous organisation underpinned by the blockchain technology used by cryptocurrencies, it is not currently regulated. Its website says that KiX is beginning with football but may expand into other sports if successful. Campaigner David Hammel has called the development of KiX

“a real kick in the teeth”

for all those affected by the collapse of Football Index. I would be interested to hear from the Minister whether the Government have had discussions with regulators about how to protect people from the risks of this latest scheme.

Returning to the issues caused by the collapse of Football Index, it is important that the Government fulfil their intention in the gambling White Paper to protect vulnerable people from gambling harms and financial detriment. This situation should never have been allowed to occur and it must never be repeated, and I look forward to the Minister reassuring us on behalf of our constituents that it will not be.

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[Stuart Andrew]

I was going to come on to that point. I reassure colleagues that the commission will continue to take a very active role in the monitoring of this product, and the FCA is also looking into the KiX business and will take appropriate risk-based action if it identifies that any of its activities fall into the FCA’s remit. However, I will raise this issue with both organisations again to ensure that everything is being done, because, like everybody else here, I do not want this to happen again. I hope I can reassure the House that the commission has been monitoring the market for several years for potential products that attempt to replicate Football Index. It has intervened in several instances. Although it would not be appropriate for me to name those businesses, that demonstrates the commission’s proactive work in this area.

The hon. Member for Blaydon raised the issue of StocksFC. The Gambling Commission is engaged with StocksFC and is monitoring the company at this moment. I will write to the commission for further information on that product and ensure that everything is being done to monitor it.

[Barbara Keeley]

I want to emphasise the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon made, but I also want to pose a question: what credibility does the Minister think the Gambling Commission has now, given that so many people have lost so much money? As for the commission posing the question of KiX, “Is it gambling?”, if it is based on the Football Index proof of concept and the expertise going into it is from Football Index, it is Football Index mark 2 in a different form. Hon. Members have all outlined how much this was not an investment and how much it was gambling. In fact, questions of compensation are affected by that, in that Ministers have said that taxpayers’ money should not be used to compensate people for gambling losses. So it seems to me that it is a bit of a joke to ask, “Is it gambling?” Do we have to ask that when it so obviously is?

[Stuart Andrew]

I understand the hon. Lady’s point, but it is important that these things are looked at properly, under the remit of the existing legislation. The Gambling Commission has done a lot of work in this space to try to deal with the grey area that the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan) mentioned. I want to come on to that point, because the cryptoasset side of things brings in another area of work.

I assure Members here that I will speak to my Treasury colleagues to highlight this issue, and to ensure that we do not find ourselves in a position like this again and address each of these issues. I am confident that the relationship between the Gambling Commission and the FCA is much improved and that the regular meetings between the two organisations will ensure that there is not a slip again. However, in order to get this right, I am more than happy to speak to colleagues in other Departments to ensure that no cracks still exist.

Post Office Horizon: Compensation and Legislation

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Monday 26th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

It is fair to say that we can all now see a significant body of evidence showing that these were wrongful convictions, which is why we are acting in this unprecedented way. If the hon. Lady is referring to the Capture cases, we do not have that body of evidence thus far. We think the DWP cases are a different cohort because of the evidential standard. We are acting in this way because we do not think the evidential standard for Horizon was of the right level, and clearly a number of different factors were involved in these convictions. The DWP cases are different. There are around 70 to 100 cases in the DWP cohort, which means that the vast majority of the 983 convictions will be overturned by this legislation.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I want to raise again with the Minister the shortcomings of the Horizon shortfall scheme. My constituent, Mr Pennington, was a sub-postmaster for over 20 years, and for 11 of those years he had the stress and worry of continually having to pay back shortfalls generated in error by the Horizon system. He has not received back all that he was forced to pay in, and he was offered only a derisory £1,500 for 11 years of stress and financial distress. I wrote to the Minister about this case five weeks ago, and I have still not received a response. Last week, the Business Secretary said that I will receive a letter very soon. How long will Mr Pennington have to wait for answers to his questions after so many years of financial stress and worry?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I will chase that correspondence as soon as I leave the Chamber. I thought I had signed the correspondence, and I apologise if the hon. Lady has not received it. I will ensure that she receives it at the earliest possible opportunity.

I am familiar with the hon. Lady’s case, having read about it and about the times she has raised it in the House and elsewhere. I am keen to look at this. The advisory board made recommendations about how we can make sure everyone feels that their settlement is fair. We are looking at those recommendations, and I will get the letter to her as soon as I can.

Post Office Governance and Horizon Compensation Schemes

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

First, I have not said that thousands of people knew that Henry Staunton was being sacked; I said that there are thousands of people who work in the Department, and it could have been anybody who put that out there. It is important that we stick to what has been said on the record. The hon. Lady mentions that these scandals go over decades, and I remind her that the Horizon scandal started under a Labour Government; it is this Government who are beginning to fix it.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On the shortcomings of the Horizon scheme, I raise with the Secretary of State the case of my constituent Mr Pennington, a sub-postmaster for 20 years, who went through 10 years of financial distress paying back shortfall amounts generated by errors in the Horizon system. The poorly designed Horizon scheme has paid back only part of the shortfalls of possibly £100,000—and only a paltry £1,500 for 10 years of financial stress and worry. I wrote to the postal affairs Minister four weeks ago and have not had a response. When will the shortcomings of the Horizon scheme be reviewed, so that sub-postmasters such as Mr Pennington receive full—not part—compensation for all those years of distress?

[Kemi Badenoch]

The hon. Lady is right to raise that matter. We are aware of the problem. We are working with the advisory board to see how we can fix it and ensure that people get proper compensation. I have just been told by the postal affairs Minister that the letter she is expecting should be with her shortly.

Post Office Ltd

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Monday 29th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

That is a good point. In the past, the relationship between Post Office Ltd and sub-postmasters has not been where it should have been. It is important that that changes. There has been much work on this: 100 area managers have been appointed to help build that relationship, and some of the past conduct and culture of the Post Office has changed. However, we know that it needs to change further. That is the job of the board; we need the right leader of the board in order to do that—hence the action that we took over the weekend.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Poor leadership and governance of the Post Office led to the badly designed Horizon shortfall scheme, which other Members have referred to. I have to say to the Minister that there has been massive under-compensation of sub-postmasters, including my constituent Mr Pennington. For 10 years, he was forced to find shortfall amounts totalling a possible £100,000 because of the Horizon system. He and his wife had to use their own savings, sell shares and even jewellery, and remortgage their house twice.

The stress and worry of finding those shortfalls over 10 years was immense, and Mr Pennington had a mini-stroke shortly after selling the business in 2012 because he could not stand paying the shortfalls any more. Yet the Horizon shortfall scheme has paid out a paltry £1,500 for those 10 years of stress and worry, and has compensated only half the shortfalls. Even the tax top-up promised in November has not yet materialised. I have written to the Minister about that case, but what action can he promise now to ensure that my constituent is finally compensated for those years of distress to him and his wife?

Post Office Horizon Scandal

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Wednesday 10th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I would be delighted to meet Noel Thomas. A key part of the excellent dramatisation “Mr Bates vs The Post Office” and of “Mr Bates vs The Post Office: The Real Story”, which sits behind it and which people can also watch, features Mr Thomas. His story was incredibly moving and anybody who saw it would be moved by it, so of course I will meet him. I am keen to ensure that he gets not only the apology he deserves, but the redress he deserves, and I am sure we can discuss that when we meet. The Government are keen to make sure that the compensation schemes work as effectively as possible, to make sure that Mr Thomas gets the compensation he needs and he is able to move on with his life.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Following the excellent ITV drama, whose makers I congratulate, there is a clear belief, expressed by my constituents, that sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses must have their names cleared and be fully compensated. There is also a view that those responsible for this appalling miscarriage of justice should be held to account, which is what we need to see unfolding in the next months. One of my constituents has said:

“The whole affair has made me ashamed of the Post Office hierarchy, the Government and the UK legal system.”

What are the Minister and the Government going to do to restore public trust? Will he expand on the timescale of action to ensure that justice and the fullest redress is given to all those affected?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Having dealt with a number of different redress schemes over the years, including those following some of the banking scandals, my experience with victims—the same applies in respect of the Post Office—is that they want two things: compensation and people being held to account. That is not least because, if people are held to account the chances of the same thing happening again might be reduced, as everyone would know that they will be held to account. That acts as a deterrent, in addition to its being something that people want to see to make sure that justice is served. Of course, the Government are not in charge of prosecutions, which are done by the various people in charge of prosecutions—the police and the CPS. I am sure they are looking closely at the evidence that is already out there and will look at the further evidence that comes to light through the inquiry. It is due to complete by the end of the year and hopes to report soon after. That deals with the inquiry side of things. As for compensation, we are keen to deliver all compensation by August, but we hope to do so sooner.

Horizon: Compensation and Convictions

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend for all his work on the Select Committee, of which he is a long-standing member. We are very concerned about the people who will not come forward for whatever reason. The best way to tackle that is to make it easier to get compensation. That is one of the reasons why we brought forward the fixed-sum award route for overturned convictions—there is no requirement to submit a detailed claim to access that £600,000—and made it easier generally to overturn convictions by making those two routes easier. We think that is the best way to convince people to come forward. The message should go out loud and clear from every Member of this House to the people affected: “Please come forward, because you will be treated fairly and you will be compensated quickly.”

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I am raising points from constituents who have been moved by the ITV drama on the Horizon scandal. I want to reiterate the points made by my hon. Friends and hon. Members on the Government Benches about the value of such a drama in bringing home the extent of the scandal to a much wider audience. I congratulate all those involved in making the drama, and the investigation work that went into it. May I add my voice to that of my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) to support the review of private prosecutions? That is the power that allowed the Post Office to be a supposed victim, investigator and prosecutor. Finally, my constituents are deeply concerned about the delay in paying compensation to victims. Can the Minister expedite the payments in any way?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I share the hon. Lady’s point that the dramatisation was invaluable in raising awareness and in making sure that we bring forward measures as quickly as possible—all things that she mentioned. As I said, private prosecution is something that I discussed with the Lord Chancellor today, and he is keen to look at that in the general context. I am sure that he will report to the House in due course. I agree with the hon. Lady entirely on delays. We want to expedite this process of overturning convictions and paying compensation, to make it much quicker and easier. That is the best way to resolve these issues and ensure that as many people as possible are confident to come forward.

Tackling Loneliness and Connecting Communities

Baroness Keeley Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I start by drawing attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as an unpaid trustee of a local charity. It is a pleasure to speak in this debate with you in the Chair, Dr Huq. I thank the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) for securing this debate and for her work on loneliness, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen (Kim Leadbeater). I do mean those thanks because, as the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Glenrothes (Peter Grant), just said, both Members should be thanked greatly for the work that they do. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed.

Loneliness has been classed among the greatest public health threats of our age. Millions of adults and young people in the UK regularly feel lonely and at risk of experiencing a severe impact on their mental and physical health as a result. My hon. Friends the Members for Bury South (Christian Wakeford) and for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) have talked about the impacts, but those impacts are not felt equally.

The most recent Government data from last year shows that people who live in more deprived areas are more than twice as likely to experience chronic loneliness compared with people who live in less deprived areas. The difference is even more stark among children with different economic backgrounds. Some 28% of children aged 10 to 15 who receive free school meals said they were often lonely, compared with 6% of those who did not have free school meals.

Meanwhile, research from Age UK shows that almost 1 million older people in the UK often feel lonely. My hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley talked about that quite extensively. Carers UK research shows that unpaid carers are seven times more likely than the general population to say they are always or often lonely. These issues have been present for many years. Brilliant campaigners such as our former colleague Jo Cox have raised them again and again, and I am glad that that work is being carried on, but as we pass the seventh year since she established the Commission on Loneliness, it feels to me as though tackling loneliness and promoting connectivity is more pressing than ever.

Even before the covid pandemic, the way we were used to interacting was changing. Increased digital connectivity and rapid technological change has led to a change in the social dynamics that exclude many people without access to the internet. Then of course the pandemic struck, and separation became a defining characteristic of our lives in the early 2020s. We were prevented, as many Members in this debate have said, from seeing our friends and family due to the strong desire to protect one another. Our shared spaces were closed, including libraries, museums, art centres and theatres.

The Office for National Statistics estimated that, over the covid pandemic years, the number of people experiencing loneliness rose from 5% to 7%. Research shows that the most profound disruption from the restrictions was felt by people who are most at risk of loneliness, including women, older people, people with disabilities, people experiencing unemployment and young people. Now, we have a cost of living crisis. As we have heard in the debate, that is reducing people’s ability to socialise and connect. Financial instability can provoke or deepen feelings of loneliness, for all the reasons we have talked about. People are unable to get out or to invite people round. In turn, loneliness can exacerbate the feelings of stress brought on by those circumstances. My hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen discussed that point.

Two fifths of respondents in British Red Cross research said they had restricted how much they socialised this last winter because of the increased cost of living. Age UK research shows that more than 4 million people aged over 60 are cutting back on their social and leisure activities just to make ends meet. It is not surprising that, according to the Jo Cox Foundation, more than a quarter of people surveyed are feeling lonelier due to the cost of living crisis.

As we have heard today, the challenges facing individuals and organisations are great, but we have rightly focused on the brilliant initiatives that are finding ways to maintain and strengthen connections. In my constituency of Worsley and Eccles South, a charity called Dancing with Dementia holds weekly dance events in non-clinical spaces for people to socialise, dance and listen to a live band. Guests are then welcome to come together for a healthy lunch. The event was originally only for people with dementia and their carers but has now expanded to include anyone that feels low-spirited, in an attempt to promote connection among people who are at risk of developing dementia.

In Carers Week, I met two carers from Salford, Claire and Justine, who talked about the support they had had as carers from a project of Age UK Salford called “Empowered Connectors”, a support group that aims to give family carers a wider voice and the chance to influence positive change. I am looking forward to meeting that group in the summer.

I want to mention the new food distribution charity, Salford Families in Need Meals Project, of which I am proud to be a trustee. Today, as every Wednesday, the charity’s volunteers will be packing and distributing much-needed food to local people and families in Salford. Not only does the charity distribute food, but it is now seeking to connect with people, beyond the food service. I must mention Julie Larkinson, who helps by taking cooking sessions to help people find more ways to cook the food that is distributed.

Finally, it is Armed Forces Week, and I had a newsletter from Allotments for Veterans this morning. I know that veterans in my constituency feel that having that allotment space makes a huge difference to their mental health and it is very much supported by the veterans who go there.

Another charity working to connect communities in my constituency is called START Inspiring Minds. It is a mental health support project that uses art as therapy in group settings, to reduce isolation. One of those services is an arts-on-prescription service that consists of up to a year of weekly, studio-based creative workshops for people experiencing poor mental health. It encourages members to try a range of art forms to build their confidence and self-esteem, with the aim of helping people to reconnect with their local community.

That is just one example of an organisation using the arts to tackle loneliness and promote connection, and I want to expand briefly on the benefits of experiencing the arts and culture. Not only does engaging with the arts and culture help spark conversations with those around us, but arts and culture can empower us to voice our own perspectives and empathise with other people’s narratives, resulting in a feeling of broader connectedness with the world around us.

Research from Imperial College London found robust evidence about the preventive benefits against loneliness for older people engaging with museums, galleries, exhibitions or community art centres. The benefits from participation in the arts are found to last for as long as 10 years, and there is strong evidence out there that makes the case for arts and culture on those grounds. I hope the Government are listening and that the Minister will do all he can to work with colleagues to support and promote visits to our museums and galleries and community art centres, and to encourage participatory art activities—it is important that it is participatory—for older people and other groups who may be lonely.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley talked about the revival of choirs in her area, and that is to be commended. The research I referred to found that choirs very much had this preventive benefit.

The organisations that we have heard about today are doing important work, but that work must not be taken for granted. This week is Small Charities Week. The 800 small charities that make up the Connection Coalition formed by the Jo Cox Foundation in 2020 have been hit hard by the cost of living crisis. A survey by the Jo Cox Foundation in February showed that more than 80% of members had concerns about the ongoing viability of their organisation over the next year. One third of members anticipated the need to cut back on the services they provide, and members also anticipated that the cost of living crisis would have a negative impact on the communities they serve, which would then increase the demand on their services.

We have reflected in the debate on the danger that our excellent small charities and voluntary organisations will go under because of the cost of living crisis. I hope the Minister will set out what his Department is doing to ensure that long-term financial support is available for voluntary sector organisations to help them deliver their vital work. Given small charities’ concerns about volunteer recruitment and retention, will the Minister also update us on what he is doing to support charities and voluntary organisations to grow and develop their volunteer management capacity?

It is testament to the work of the loneliness commission, led first by Jo Cox, then Seema Kennedy, later by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) and then taken up by my hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen, that much has been done already to tackle loneliness. Yet a strategy and ministerial oversight, which are good things, can only go so far when vital community infrastructure is being undermined by the hollowing out of public services. Sadly, austerity measures brought in through the coalition years have had a concerning impact on the number of permanent closures of libraries, youth centres, community halls and other shared spaces. In addition, and as I have mentioned, the very charities addressing loneliness are now facing further restraints because of cost of living pressures. I urge the Minister to ensure that those vital organisations continue to be supported.

Support for mental health also to be strengthened. A couple of hon. Members have referred to mental health issues and we know that mental health services are critically overstretched. Although we have not often politicised issues in this debate, it is worth saying that under a Labour Government, mental health treatment would be revolutionised by recruiting 8,500 new mental health professionals and Labour would guarantee mental health treatment within four weeks for anyone who needs it. That is the level of commitment that is needed to start addressing the problems facing people who experience chronic loneliness. There is no quick fix to tackling loneliness, but with leadership and determination, inspired by Jo Cox, we can build towards a kinder, fairer and more connected world.