Home Affairs Committee

Wednesday 21st October 2026

(began 1 day, 9 hours ago)

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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Shall I start with that, sir? So it's worth just sort of stating where we are in terms of those numbers. So year on year compared to last year, at this point last year, we'd had just under 37,000 arrivals. To date this year we've had under 21,000. So we're 16,000 fewer individual migrants that had arrived. In terms of boats that have arrived. We've had 305, which compares to 600 boats that arrived at this point last year. So in terms of migrants, it's a 43% reduction. In terms of boats, it's 49.8% reduction. It's almost 50%.

































































 That means that in terms of migrant arrivals, we're at the lowest point that we have been since 2020. And I anticipate with a little bit of touching wood, that by the end of the year, we will come in below 2019. So the lowest numbers really, since the big phenomenon of small boats began. But but to your question, sir, as you might imagine, Border Security Command has now been in existence for two years. And that was the government's intent to try and bring together all of the various systems that looked across the whole of government, and particularly with international partners, to address what I know, you all understand, is a very complicated and complex problem.

















































 And the idea of that was to try and put priorities where the government was, to bring the resources and bring both law enforcement, government departments and other agencies into that fight and really cohere the work with international partners. We break down what we are doing broadly into three areas. Firstly, those things that attract migrants to the UK, and you'll be aware of some of the initiatives that have been placed at the Home Secretary has done to try and make this less attractive to people who would seek to come here illegally. That includes our organised Immigration Crime Task Force, Operation Lock Stream under Deputy Constable Wendy Gunney.



































That has had some great effect in terms of illegal working and some of the pull factors. We then look at the upstream piece where we work with international partners. This is very much about how we deal with the stability in those countries where people would seek to come here. Working with those governments and those along those routes to try and stop migrants making those journeys in the first place. And very much trying to interdict the supply chains where the boats and the equipment and the facilitation take place. We then get into the work that happens in the in the near borders, principally with France, but also with Belgium, with the Netherlands and Germany.





















 And in that regard, what we're trying to do there is obviously stop the migrants coming across, really dig into the facilitators and the illegal criminal gangs and really get into the into the small boats equipment. I'll let Rob talk about some of the detail, but I would offer that we have had huge success now in terms of working with partners to reduce the flow of migrants into Europe in the first place. We have had great success in terms of reducing the supply of equipment and boats, and particularly with our work with France and near border partners, in being able to really do that last line of defence on the beaches where we've seen the French have a 60% success rate in in stopping boat events this year.



And we put those combination of factors together. And that's why we've seen month on month this year a pretty steady and progressive, you know, erosion of their ability to come across.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Thank you. Duncan. So to focus on your point around why, why are we convinced it's something we've done and it's just not other environmental factors. So we've done everything that Duncan has said and we've made this the main effort for the NCA. We've built a response which focuses on five key areas social media, high value targets, equipment, criminal finance, and the movers and shakers that are in northern France. Those people all now get unbearable pressure day in, day out, and that makes them desperate. It makes them change their business model. And we have seen an adaptation because of that pressure and what you have seen this summer, and we will get on to this summer.



























































Some of this later, I'm sure. Is that pressure being exhibited in them, changing their behaviour? There are there are key indicators of our progress. So at any one time we've got around 100 operations running those operations. Use the full suite of tactics available for national security threats. It wasn't always like that with organised immigration crime. There has been a clear demand signal to the system in the UK that this is an effort right across HMG and the policy and the influencing around that system by BSE is really helpful. We have a laser like focus on the operations and what we have seen is we have targeted known suppliers of equipment and then that equipment, after we've targeted those individuals, has no longer appeared in crossings.







































 That's point one, point two. We have seen people finding it much harder to bring together the package of engine, boat, life jacket, migrant at the same time, same place in northern France. And we have intervened with European partners as a direct result of UK intelligence on multiple occasions to prevent what we call a go kit, a car with all of that equipment getting to migrants. And we know that that crossing would have happened if we hadn't dealt with that. All of these things build up the pressure. We have also, last year had a record year in terms of seizures of equipment.





















 We don't just do that. We obviously are seeking to bring people to justice as well. But as we know, an awful lot of that criminality is based overseas. That is why the upstream effort, where we have come away from France further and further upstream with covert tactics to confront this, to empower the goal line defense in France and Belgium. So by the time people have got that far, it's very hard to stop them. We're working way away from that now at scale to prevent them getting to France and to disrupt them. Those factors coming together have contributed to that drop.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Yeah. Without being patronising. Very good question. I mean, we are two years into this journey post-election and the setting up of this organisation, which will be aware, pulled together some of the existing organisations, including mine. When you recall, my predecessor appeared before you this time last year when the Maritime and Small Boats Operation Command and Home Office Intelligence were pulled into into Border Security command, making it just under 3000 people, but bringing a really, you know, key operational intelligence focus to that. And I would offer that, I think two years into this, the relationships and the systems and the convening authority of this appointment, which you'll be aware is enshrined in the Border Security and Asylum Act.



































But but doesn't require that. And I think everyone understanding how they can play their role, you know, whether that's the organisations that Rob has responsibility for or really Crown Prosecution Service, Foreign and Commonwealth Office. And I think it has taken time for all of that to pivot in. So I think the system is working really, really well. We should be really clear, though, if we get to the end of this year below 25,000 arrivals, that's still 25,000 rivals too many. And, you know, not quoting the Home Secretary, but, you know, we are relentless in this.





















 Everyone gets up every morning wanting to drive that down to a level where it's no longer significant. So, you know, there is always more to be done in this regard. I think it was helpful that we managed to sign the deal for the next three years with France. That I think has given certainty in that space. And I think in terms of being able to coalesce around, I think that's good. I do think, you know, direction from previous Prime Minister and this Prime Minister's focus, and you'll be aware he visited us in the summer that he is laser focused on this is helping.







So I think there is still more to do, but it is in a good place. Now. What we have to do, as Rob said, is certainly not claim victory now and none of us are, is make sure that we set the conditions now to stop those people that would seek to travel to the north of France next year and make those and make those contacts.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Just just a couple of points. So there are areas where we've made taken very direct action in relation to illegal migration. And then there are areas. So we're quite advanced in those areas. But there are areas that are important that are catching up in terms of priority. So criminal finance, cash based economy, grey economy, high street, all of those things are relevant in terms of illegal migration, because you don't want somebody to think they're going to come and work for cash in a vape shop in the UK. And so that has spun up our Operation Mechanize, our work with MPC on really, really pressurising what could be seen as a pull factor and making sure that the lies that are told overseas around coming to the UK, where you can melt away and work with impunity, are confronted and people are arrested is really important, and that is coming up to the level of activity that we have in the more direct areas of chasing facilitators, chasing people that are involved in this directly.















































 So the informal value transfer system does. That is really important to us. That's really difficult to deal with because it's hidden from regulation. It's hidden from the reporting regime that we get with suspicious activity reports from banks. So all of these areas are catching up with the more the higher priority areas. And we need those all to be flat out to squeeze this. And with the help of Duncan and the convening power that we've got across Whitehall, that's exactly what we're doing. Everybody's at the table. And that's the important thing. And the other benefit that that I've seen is the legislation that that came through.

























 I've talked before about acts preparatory and going early to to disrupt organised crime at its earliest possible stage, and we're now starting to use that. So the business model that I described was largely legal, ubiquitous social media. It's not illegal to run equipment, not illegal to possess. Using hawala does not illegal unless we can prove a link to it, to criminality. What we now have is the section 13 in BSI allows us to seize equipment that is brilliant. And you've seen some of that recently. You know, 25 vessels seized in the UK under that legislation that would have been 25 vessels with at least 79 people in.



 So criminalising that business model with the new legislation has been important as well. And that's another benefit of of what the Border Security Command has helped with.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Let me start with that one. And and you're right, the intent of the Border Security command that it would was that it would be a system leader across all illegal migration, immigration into the United Kingdom. But but that, as you say, to start with that the clear focus and the clear and present one for us was illegal migration by small boat and the facilitation around it. You recall in the summer when we talked about the common travel area and some of the other perhaps threats that we are interested in that, and I'm sure later on we'll come on to displacement.



































 And, you know, if we are successful in the small boats area, is there a demand that then, you know, has to be satisfied by other ways of getting into the United Kingdom? So we are very interested in those things. I have a remit as well for wider national border security. You'll be aware I have the maritime law enforcement maritime capability in the UK that was involved on the boarding of the MV. We facilitated that using our cutters, so we still maintain a persistent presence in that. I own the Joint Maritime Security Centre. We work very closely into the national resilience and critical national infrastructure.























 So that work is still going. I think we are concerned about common travel area. We are concerned about clandestine entry into the UK, and we keep that as a plate that is spinning. Working with Border Force, NCA and other regional police forces to keep that. But but the focus at the moment is definitely on to small boats. But but it cannot be at the expense of of, of not keeping an eye on those things because, you know, you and the Parliament would not thank me if we fix the small boat problem. And all that happens is we get people displaced into other dangerous, you know, modes of entry.





And we all remember the awful situation at Purfleet where people died in a container. So we do. I don't know if you had any thoughts on that.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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So part of obviously the the compact in setting up the Border Security Command is that it would it would act as the system leader, it would run the strategy in the plan, and it would do that by allocating funding to the various endeavours. Obviously, there's the core funding that sets my organisation up, but there's also, I think this year 290 million that is being focused through organisations that have a role and that includes NCA agencies, CPS, we we covered a little of this in our first statutory report, which was published in the summer. We will deal with a lot more of it when we do the one next year.



















 So. So we work through my System Leadership Board where we get all of the the director general level representatives on that, and we monitor the progress in all of those areas. And of course, when we come to the end of this first essentially proper year when we've been doing that, that ongoing assessment process and the bids for what goes on in the future will allow us hopefully, to identify those things that are having the greatest effect and where we want to double down and, and continue to fund on those areas where perhaps we haven't had as much success and that we can pivot the funding and that that process is pretty dynamic.







 I mean, Rob might want to because obviously one of the major parts is the funding that we channel through National Crime Agency to establish the pivot that he talked about and the upstream network to work together. You know, Rob, you might want to talk a little bit about measures of effectiveness in your area.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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So you might want to touch on it later, but be aware, post the one in, one out deal the Home Secretary has, you know, established pull together all the work that's already happening in the small boats task force that is looking at deterrence, potential returns and that element of it. So, you know that we start to build consequence into things. If people do jump the queue and they, you know, and they and they come in here illegally, I think that is an area where I expect the Home Secretary will want to resource using funding from BSE.





































 I think, as Rob said, addressing some of these things upstream with partners in the countries they come from and doing capacity building, and I think critically doing that whole of government. So when we go and we do those negotiations with those countries, we're bringing all the equities across government. It's not just the organised immigration crime, you know, because there's a there's a compact here, isn't it? Do they want things from us? Yes they do. And we need to wrap those in in a way that perhaps didn't happen before. And I think, you know, if we can stop people wanting to leave their countries, we can stop the facilitators exploiting them to cross borders.





















 And critically, we can stop the supply chain. That is far more effective because when people get to the north of France broadly, many of you who've been there, they will keep trying until they're either successful or they die. And that causes all sorts of problems. I would offer that the work we've done with France in in the New Deal, and particularly with the flexibility to, you know, to to look at what we've learned over the last three years and, and before to actually focus on the things that are successful. That is a core part of that, but it is only holding the ground.





 Rob. I mean.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Yeah, and so your, your point around where we're at in, in what works. So it is quite early because we've gone from kind of the build and the uplift to then assessing where we can best place resources. So within the envelope we have, we are constantly looking to see, can we redeploy and get behind something that's had a really tangible impact. And across the areas that I talked about, you know, the five key areas that we operate against the, the, the work on criminal finance for OIC is really interesting because the narrative around following the money and organised crime holds good, right?





































 So there is impact, but the, the money and the way the money flows work in relation to organised immigration crime, it's a much smaller pot of money. It's much more organic. And the system, because it's based on trust, is harder to penetrate and disrupt. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's finding the right place to target it. So those are the areas that are catching up with other other elements that we do. And when we get through next year, we'll have a much better place to to get behind what we think is most effective.

















 All of those areas are productive. I see benefit in all of them. If there was a wider effort, it would be upstream. You know, the big issues that draw people to the UK that push people to the UK and , and some of those some of those issues are beyond the NCA in terms of dealing with them. We know we're tackling the organised crime, but dealing with the causes of this and making sure that the UK is not an attractive target for smuggling gangs, and we have an efficient and effective system which we support by undermining the organised crime is is the price.



 So you do need to keep looking further and further away from the UK for the causes of this, and try and tackle it as far away from France as you can. As Duncan said.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Can I make one further quick point? It sort of pays back to your previous point. I think communications and perception is an area that we are doing quite a lot in, but can do more. As Rob said, this is unlike most other crimes which try and stay under the radar. This is over. It is on TikTok, it's on, you know, it's on all of these these apps working to try and with those companies and also to try and put deterrence into this, but not just in northern France, in the countries where people are coming from.

























That is an area we we have developed this year, and I think we can do more. We're working with the French now in the camps to try and go and have communications with them. We do dialogue under a thing called aspire, where we try and explain the realities of what it means. You know, we're trying to drive down people risking their lives. I think there's a big piece we can do there, you know, to try and bring some truth to the perception of it. You saw some of the work that we did with the French, actually, for the first time, using some other imagery to show people that might come that the reality is not what they think, particularly if you come from Horn of Africa, you're going to go through, you know, countries in Sahel, you're going to be exploited, all of those kind of things.







 I think that is an area. And working with our, you know, ambassadors and high commissioners in those countries that we can do a lot more in. And that's one of the areas I want to develop next year.
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None Portrait Speaker 3
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Thank you.
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None Portrait Speaker 3
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Yeah.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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So Duncan, if you want to come in, an initial response to that is they do adapt, but of course, we're thinking about their next move and we're thinking about that now. I don't want to telegraph where we go next because I want to be ahead. I'm waiting when they change. But the symptoms that we see are higher. Number of attempts. That's great in the business model. That's really, really good. The fact that there are more migrants in northern France is not a good thing, but it shows the intent is high, but it shows they are struggling to make the crossing.

























































 The fact that events have plummeted by, you know, in the region of 50%, the number of times people are successful. All of those are really important facts for communities that understandably feel threatened by this. The assurance I can give is that we have seen that business model starting to shake, and we are actively working to understand where it goes next. If it does displace, to get ahead of that and be ahead and waiting. So there is not an infinite number of possibilities for the small boats model. You know, you've seen attempts to use larger vessels.









































 You've seen attempts to evade the French patrols by going out of the areas where the French have got very tight control. You've seen them try Belgium. But the thing about small boats, it depends on specialist equipment. It depends on just in time logistics model, and it depends on people being able to bring all of that together at the right time, right place. That's it's vulnerability. The strength of it is that it was low cost, but we are increasing the cost because we're increasing the risk. We're increasing the cost, not just financially to to ocgs who up till now have absorbed a lot of that and tried to absorb it.





















But they can't do that forever because they're driven by profit. But we've increased the cost to them in terms of risk. It's more likely than ever that you're going to get arrested. It's more likely than ever that your equipment is going to be seized. And every time that happens, they need to go again. So the small, the organised immigration, crime and people smuggling people will continue to attempt that. Attempting it in the English Channel is getting riskier and riskier for everybody that's involved in it. And we just need to continue with that and stay flat out on that till that viability is no longer there.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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It's a very good question. I think the things that worry me most this year have been the increasing size of the boats and the increasing occupancy you'll have seen this year. We had a boat with 230 people in it. Extraordinary. And and I just it ought to be put on record that it is only a matter of time till we have a mass casualty event in the channel. It is extraordinary that that has not happened so far. You'll be aware that my officers were involved in a rescue with the French in French waters, where we rescued 168 people.





























































 None of them drowned. Quite an extraordinary thing on one of the the Western launches. I think that that worries me. The displacement into Belgium and down to the western beaches and particularly Normandy. You'll probably want to do in a bit of detail that I think represents the fact that they are. Find it more difficult to launch around Dunkirk and Calais. Not impossible, but more difficult. To give an example of the displacement into Belgium. That was a real fear of mine. At the beginning of the year, we set a taskforce up with the Belgians to address that.















































 Not only have we pretty much shut that route down, but actually the increased cooperation between France and Belgium and Belgium and the Netherlands. Noting that the Belgians have far more permissive use of number plate recognition. Facial recognition, I know you're aware of has had the has had the bigger effect of making it much more difficult for the boats and the engines to be moved from broadly where they were being stored in in the border , Germany, Netherlands, Venlo area through in time, as Rob said, with a with a ready pack that that has made it much more difficult and is part of the contributing factors.



































So actually that cooperation has been effective. The Western launches again, I think that is much more difficult for the criminal gangs to operate in that part of France. It is a very long way. They have to get the migrants to move down there. They have to move the boats and the engines. So as you can imagine, we're working very closely with the French to deal with that. I would just offer that one of the things that has made a big difference this year is the French changing their on water maritime posture. They have physically interdicted 15 boats on the water and of course, their view.























And I and I share this is that that hasn't just had a direct effect. It's had a deterrent effect. So we have had seen boats giving up rather than, you know, being, being stopped by the French. And that has addressed principally the taxi boat methodology. When there are fewer people in the boat, when they go and pick people up, and that is one of the other displacements that was was difficult. But I think, you know, it. The risk of not going on there are there are a lot of things. We think about it very closely.









 We work very closely with the French on this because most of it in that space. But you'll understand the difficulties. It is France, and we have to work with the French in the way that they do it, but offering every bit of support and intelligence that we can.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Could I offer, sir, I mean, I think bringing home office intelligence into the Border Security Command and pivoting that organization's efforts to focus on organised immigration, crime and small boats has been very effective. I think, as Rob alluded to, working with international partners. And this is not just you get this is not just a UK problem, this is a worldwide problem, and it is destabilizing the countries that are losing their people don't want to lose their brightest and their best. And no one wants to pay for facilitators who are, you know, in some cases , criminal and are doing bad things with the money that they are getting from this.























So I think, you know, there is a shared zone of, of, of interest in that. And actually we do a lot of reciprocal work, both on the law enforcement side and on the prevention side with those partners. And I do think we've moved into a space now where we are better able to share intelligence in a way that we couldn't. And even if it's not intelligence, information, awareness, some of the debriefing stuff we do, we can track that all the way back through the migrant journey using the taskforce approach. But what we're trying to do, as Rob said, is take this much more to not haphazard, but intelligence led, really focused, using all of the sources we have, including the powers to look at magnetic media phones, also open source intelligence, which is a massive area because all of this is happening, you know, in plain sight all the way through those journeys.





So, so an improving picture, but one that we need to keep working.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Do that? So it's worth being really clear here that 98% of the rescues of small boat migrants are done by Border Security Command, by the Maritime and Small Boats Organisation. Only 2% of rescues of small boats, to be really clear, 2% are done by the RNLI who do an amazing job. But but you know, should not be pulled into this unless they have to be. I arrived in this role at the end of 2022 and we had we had just established the contract for crew transfer vessels. Now these essentially are the vessels that are normally used to take crews out to the the wind farms.

































 We have adapted those to be able to rescue small boat migrants. No boat apart from a lifeboat is designed to do rescues. In most cases, there's a May day and somebody will go and assist. But of course you need a boat that can actually do that. These have been designed or modified specifically to be able to to come alongside small boats and be able to rescue them. So the high profile incidents on the Normandy launches into Portsmouth were RNLI because they covered that area. We have a plan in place to stop them having to do that now and I.















I deal very closely with RNLI and the chief executive is actually a personal friend of mine and to procure an additional crew transfer vessel to allow us to be able to do that. The reason that was set up was twofold. Firstly, to be able to ensure that actually we could fulfill our safety of life at sea responsibilities, which is as a as a signatory of the maritime conventions, we have to do. But secondly, to to provide control for people coming into the United Kingdom.

 So it's twofold. But but yeah, just just to be.
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None Portrait Speaker 3
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So would you like.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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So it was an extremely busy day on the water. The surveillance conditions were really, really difficult. So we have a networked system of surveillance and intelligence. We map them with the Coast Guard coming off the beach. We have crude surveillance aircraft, we have drones, and then we have coastal surveillance towers. And that all comes together and networks into a system that then queues the assets. So it was a particularly busy day with multiple rescues going on. The boat was identified about four kilometres off the beach. So it was too, too late by that stage to get a crew transfer vessel to meet it.

























 It was met on the beach with well by law enforcement immediately, then supported by our officers. In one case there were five people on one boat and the other one then I think the subsequent day had 21. I won't go into detail. There are a couple of procedural issues which we identified in terms of the notifications that came off the system, and I'm confident that any errors that happened have been have been identified. But but we should really clear it wasn't that they were not detected. It's just they were not controlled on the water, but it represents an exceptionally small number.









 And that is why when a lot of people say, well, you're acting as a taxi service, we intercept them on the water because we do not want them getting to the beach. And some of you who've been in this a long time will recall when this started off, people would get onto the beaches. They would then get into the hinterland of the UK with none of the checks that we've discussed today. So I'm not blazing, man, but I'm very focused.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Right. I mean, I, I have been very, very keen to open our doors and show people more of what we do. And it's slightly plays to the humanity of, you know, of, of what we are trying to do, you know, the efforts that we're making, the protection we're trying to put in there. Because I do think, you know, there will be people that you will never persuade, but there'll be those that perhaps just don't know. And we could do with informing, I think, some of the work that we've done this year, working with the French, because you'll have seen some of the, you know, the quite difficult, you know, coverage that people's perception would be that we'd be overrun.



















Not that we're nearly 50% down. So I would like, I would like to do more. I think we we have been able to do more. I think we've been able to publicize more the work that we're doing. And I think for those people that actually would like to understand this better, then I think there's more there's more that we can do. And there are there are very sensible journalists out there that have covered this in a very straight way, actually, and have been have been honest and have been involved with the Home Secretary, went out to, to, to deal with this.









And a lot of them are very are very good in terms of, you know, there's a there's a story, but but they're very honest in terms of there are others that it's always, it's always a story. They're always. You might imagine for my people, it's pretty difficult at times. I'm not looking for sympathy, but we would just like it to be a more, even a more even story.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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If I start with pre-planned operations on organised crime, and then if you want to come in around the task forces. So we have developed our presence in in Europol, and we work in operational task forces and in joint investigation teams to work on judicial investigations with partners. And that has resulted in a number of successes in Europe, particularly in Germany, where we've had large days of action with hundreds of officers out on the ground to seize equipment that is on its way to France. So the way this model works is obviously there is a lay up point before materials are called down.





























 So targeting that with European colleagues has worked and that has had an impact on crossings. And that is an important part of what what we do, as well as cooperating, cooperating in Europe with judicial investigations. We have bilateral relationships in all of the source countries for migrants and will target facilitators in those countries, as well as money launderers and the controlling minds. And we do that at a scale that we've never done before, and that is important to us. So the dealing with the the equipment and the supply of equipment in Europe, dealing with the middlemen in France, with colleagues in Altium, in France and with other French units, as well as dealing bilaterally in some of the source countries.









And we've spoken publicly about work in Iraq and elsewhere to try and stem the flow and work on that. So that's if you like. That's the high level view of that. It's difficult to go into specific operations that are still running, and there are many that are running today, which will come to fruition. And we will talk about those when we can.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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With .
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Illegally, and .
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Exactly. Okay.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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A genuine asylum .
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None Portrait Speaker 4
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Boat are .
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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To do it. So .
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None Portrait Speaker 4
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You .
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None Portrait Speaker 4
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A .
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None Portrait Speaker 4
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Never done before.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Anything to add?
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