Bus Fares: National Cap

Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

Question

14:50

Asked by

[Lord Moylan]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they plan to continue the national £2 cap on bus fares, which is scheduled to end on 31 December.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

Making fares more affordable for bus passengers is one of the Government’s top priorities, as we know how important it is for those passengers. The Government are looking at the future of the national bus fare cap as a matter of urgency and considering the most appropriate and affordable approach for the future of the scheme.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister must know that if a decision is not made very quickly, almost immediately, the bus companies will not be able to implement the policy from 31 December. Is this another one of those questions which is caught up in the pantomime of chaos in Downing Street? Why should passengers suffer because the Government cannot make a timely decision?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

Honestly, I do not recognise any of the pantomime within the Department for Transport. This is one of its top priorities. Extra resource is being put into the department to deal with it. The department knows how important it is that local authorities working with their partners can deliver this and how popular it is. But the noble Lord is right that the scheme finishes in December 2024. The outcome was delayed before the election, but I can assure him that the department is treating this as an absolute top priority.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the numbers travelling by bus outside London have declined significantly in recent years. As a priority, we need to get young people back on buses because they need access to those buses for jobs and education. Does the most appropriate and affordable scheme that the Minister refers to include a standard reduced youth fare, or even a scheme for free fares for young people?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

The most important aspect in taking this forward is that it is for local determination. The money going to local authorities is not ring-fenced; they are able to look at different schemes for their particular localities. In areas where youth schemes have been brought in, they have been very successful—look at how Greater Manchester is moving forward, with an increase in passengers. I hope we can roll it out across the country.

[Lord Patel of Bradford (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, can the Minister say if the Government are taking any particular action with respect to coastal and rural communities? The noble Baroness remarked that young people need access to travel to get to work, and yet the infrastructure is completely destroyed in some of these areas.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

Rural communities come up all the time when we are talking about bus services. I have lived in the wilds of the Yorkshire Dales in the past and I know exactly how important it is. But the important thing is that local determination can highlight priorities, and we know how much the bus cap has helped rural communities over the last few months. This is something that will be of great concern as we consider how we take it forward.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, most of the money that comes to the bus companies in income is derived from the public purse. Will the Minister make sure that we get value for money for the taxpayers and stop bus companies ripping us off?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My noble friend hits on a very sensitive and important issue. Value for money must be driven throughout any scheme that we come up with, and that is one of the top priorities of the work that is happening as we speak.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said that the department was working very hard to get a solution to this important problem. Can she put a better timescale on that, given that there are only a few weeks to go before the current funding scheme comes to an end? Are the Government holding this for a nice, hopeful announcement on Budget Day?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

Of course the Budget is an important consideration as we go forward, and we know that it is coming up very soon. I assure the noble Lord that work is carrying on at the moment. More capacity has gone into the department to deal with this; it knows that the clock is ticking and how important it is that a decision is made.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the previous Government recognised that in rural areas it is sometimes very difficult to have a traditional bus service. That is why we invested millions of pounds in demand-responsive transport. Will the new Labour Government look favourably on that mode of transport?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

At the moment, all options are on the table. The noble Baroness will remember our conversations during Covid about working with the operators and the local authorities. There are so many aspects of this, and nothing is off the table. We are looking at the history and at how we can take things forward.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that, for once, we have had a sensible suggestion from the Opposition Front Bench? Does she agree with me that reducing the £2 fare to £1 and extending it, which would help passengers and bus companies, could very easily be paid for by taking the £2 billion or so needed from the roads budget? This would enable the noble Lord who asked the Question to rattle on again about the war on motorists.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I think it is above my pay grade to talk about the outcome of the Budget discussions that are taking place. This is a critical moment, with the Budget at the end of October. All these factors must be taken into account in looking at value for money and how we can get the best bus services. We must not forget that the reason we are doing this is for the passengers. Buses are so important for our communities. They are lifelines for people going to work and meeting up with their loved ones; they are an essential service which I am afraid has fallen foul of the price of profitability in too many cases.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, will my noble friend try to ensure that, when a decision is made on what kind of bus subsidy we have, there is a long-term element to it? It is very difficult for bus companies and their passengers if the services, frequency and fares change every few months, as they have done in recent years.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that suggestion. I will certainly pass it on to the department for consideration.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Can the Minister confirm that there are no plans to take away special arrangements for elderly passengers on buses or other forms of transport?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I assume that the noble Baroness is referring to the English national concessionary travel scheme. We have absolutely no plans to withdraw it, reduce it or means-test it.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My noble friend said that all options are on the table, which I welcome. Of those options, would she consider using her influence to ensure better co-ordination between buses and railways? I can give her nightmare examples of a lack of co-ordination. It would smooth things for passengers and improve the use of buses.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I completely agree with my noble friend. There is no point in having a regular train service if passengers cannot reach it by bus. It is always about the consideration of the last mile of a journey. If people get into their cars, they tend to stay there. It is a very important aspect that has been picked up by looking at the bus open data service. Bus companies sharing their data has been an enormous problem—anyone in the north of England knows that that helped prevent us bringing in an Oyster-style ticketing service across the north. It is crucial that we get this right and that all companies are obliged to share the information.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Could I press the noble Baroness further? She has given a very positive answer on concessionary fares for the elderly, but her response does not actually give a commitment to continue the £2 fare. Could she give a more positive answer about the timetable and an assurance that there will be no cliff edge from 31 December this year, particularly for young people and those living in rural areas who do not benefit from the concessionary fare, which has played such a positive role in rural transport?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I hope I made it clear that the success of the scheme is well recognised. We have to look at all aspects to make sure that it is sustainable going forward and that we do not have to return to this in the future. So many people depend on this and it is very popular. Of all the schemes that have come into place, this one is very well known; the public actually know about it and this has led to an increase in patronage. People have changed their habits from using other forms of transport to using the bus. In my view, it has been a real success.