Real-Time Bus Information: North-East
(2 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered real time bus information in the North East.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Bardell, and to open this important debate. I am pleased to see colleagues from the north-east here to support the motion. The Minister can rest assured that I will ask him when he last took a bus in the north-east, but I will start by talking about when I last did not take a bus. That was three days ago, when I chose to walk one and a half miles to Newcastle train station dragging a suitcase rather than wait at a bus stop for a bus that might not come. Had I been in London, I could have looked the information up on one of the many apps that show real-time bus information.
For me, the unreliability and unpredictability of bus services in the north-east is a continual frustration, but for many of my constituents, it is a blight on their life—a barrier between them and their work, their loved ones, their studies and their pastimes. It is a form of cruel and unusual punishment and, for some, a matter of life or death.
Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. She will know, as I do, that there are constituents who are left stranded regularly—school children are left standing in the dark; people are missing hospital appointments or, as she did, having to walk; and people in the outer west really struggle or are not able to make a journey into the city centre on foot so have to save up for very expensive taxis just to get to basic necessities like work, hospital appointments and school. Does she agree on how important real-time information is so that people can rely on public transport and we can therefore grow our public transport service because it has a regular customer base who trust it?
Chi Onwurah
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Her passion highlights the importance of this issue for our constituents in Newcastle and across the north-east.
Given that so many people rely on buses, it goes without saying that bus services should be reliable. The bus service improvement plan published just last year by Transport North East recognised that poor performance affects people who rely on the bus service, especially those from low-income households without cars. As my hon. Friend said, a cancelled or late bus can mean a missed doctor’s appointment, trouble at work or even being left stranded, which makes women and girls especially vulnerable. Long waits are also challenging for many disabled people. It is clearly unacceptable and a major barrier to travelling confidently and safely.
People with cars may choose to drive instead, increasing the economic and environmental harms of traffic congestion. We want more people to travel by bus, which means making catching a bus as easy as possible. The difficulty in finding a bus to catch may be why we have seen a downward trend in local bus journeys in the north-east since 2010, and after covid-19 passenger numbers have struggled to climb much beyond 80% of pre-pandemic figures.
In March 2021, the national bus strategy described one basic way to make travelling by bus easier: better real-time information. The strategy said:
“It is too difficult for non-users to find where buses go. Information online is often incomplete, misleading or hard to locate.”
It went on to say:
“None of the most commonly-used public transport journey planning apps and websites yet provide comprehensive, accurate, England-wide local bus information”,
and:
“A number of apps and websites give inaccurate information when tested.”
It also said:
“Information at bus stops is often poor.”
In a November 2021 debate on buses in the north-east secured by my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist), I mentioned a sign in Eldon Square that said, “Working with bus operators to bring you real-time travel information.” I said that the sign had been there for years. After I raised that in the debate, there was immediate action—they took the sign away. That is about all the action we have had under this Government.
As a self-confessed tech evangelist, I like to go on and on about how technology can improve all aspects of our life, including public transport. As an engineer, I know the challenges inherent in technology roll-out. However, this is not rocket science. Indeed, one enterprising Geordie, Mark Nelson, used the time he has spent waiting for buses to develop a bus tracker, which can be found on the SPACE for Heaton website. He told me that there are two key types of data missing that would make it usable by more people: cancelled services and the external factors affecting bus journey times. No matter how long bus companies force him to wait at bus stops, he cannot fix the bad and unreliable information that bus operators provide.
Another commuter into Newcastle Central station tells me that their three-mile journey can take anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour because Stagecoach buses simply do not match the live times on the apps. I waited at a bus stop in Kenton for more than 45 minutes as a succession of Stagecoach buses failed to turn up. Critically, it was only two or three hours before a Newcastle United match, and many fans were debating whether it was better to walk the three miles to the stadium.
I was at Haymarket bus station one evening when the bus we were waiting for disappeared from both the information board at the station and the app. Some left the queue, others phoned friends for lifts, but I clearly remember one distraught young girl on the phone to her mum trying to figure out how to get home safely. In the recent snow, people were forced to wait at freezing bus stops, even if their homes were only metres away, because they did not have real-time bus info. I hope the Minister agrees that accurate, real-time bus information is a matter of safety and accessibility.
When I asked a written parliamentary question on the topic last October, the then buses Minister, the right hon. Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden), gave a rosy picture. He told me that the Government had launched the bus open data service—BODS—in November 2020, with the legal obligation to publish data coming in from 1 January 2021. He said that 98% of buses have an automatic vehicle location device, and that developers have been able to use BODS to create apps for journey planning in the north-east. If all that is true, why have things gone so wrong? Why are bus operators in the north-east failing in their duty to provide the most basic information on the running of their services—services that are subsidised by public money?
Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)
This is such a hugely important debate. Bus services in the City of Durham are, quite frankly, ridiculous. To add insult to injury, the former buses Minister, who my hon. Friend refers to, is from our patch.
Mary Kelly Foy
Constituents tell me that real-time data is a huge issue, making it impossible for them to accurately plan their journeys, whether for a very rare dental appointment or to get to school on time. It is even worse for those in smaller rural communities where they are often put off using public services due to infrequent or unreliable bus services. It is really affecting them, especially when they are waiting, as my hon. Friend says, for up to an hour for a bus that may or may not turn up. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that we need to see buses in the north-east taken into public control, like in Manchester?
Hannah Bardell (in the Chair)
Order. I remind hon. Members that interventions should be short.
Chi Onwurah
I thank my hon. Friend for her passionate intervention. I agree with her that local accountability would be a huge improvement, which is why I am excited about Labour’s plans to give every local authority the power to franchise their buses and reverse the ban on municipal bus ownership.
This is what I would like to see: when someone gets off the train at Newcastle Central station and puts into an app one of our wonderful destinations—Benwell, Scotswood garden, St James’ park, Blakelaw community centre, Kenton School—I want them to know when a bus will come to take them there. Does the Minister agree that that must be the test? Why is it not happening?
Nexus, the Tyne and Wear passenger transport executive, told me that the real-time systems for passengers in the north-east are
“fragmented and need both investment and harmonisation”.
Each bus company, whether it is Arriva, Stagecoach or Go North East, has an app and real-time feed, created to its own design and specification, decided by corporate headquarters HQ. I was told that the Arriva app is designed in Germany, making integration more challenging. Apparently, they did not know about the disappearing bus bug until I raised it with them, and they have still failed to respond to my letters. Will the Minister encourage them?
Different operators provide their data feeds to different standards. Should the Government not use their levers—guidance, bus service improvement plans, city region sustainable transport settlements and so on—to ensure greater collaboration and standardisation in real-time bus information provision? Nexus tells me there is no specific duty on bus companies around real-time information that it can enforce, but the previous Minister, the right hon. Member for North West Durham, told me that there is a duty to supply data. Does the Minister believe that local or regional decision makers should have the powers to enforce real-time information delivery to an agreed standard?
As I know from my time working in competition regulation, standardisation does not stunt competition but enhances it, by allowing the best, most innovative apps to win out. When people travel across our region they should not have to download 10 apps in order to do so. There is also the problem that the technical systems and infrastructure underpinning those services do not guarantee a high enough standard of information. They are too open to human error—for example, when drivers decide to change their running boards early in their route—and they cannot account for simple things like a bus being at the start of its route. What are the Government doing to enable improvements in infra- structure, after more than a decade of local government cuts?
It should not take MPs to get bus operators and Government working on this issue. Bus operators should be aware of the failings of their services. Where passengers find an issue, there must be a clear avenue to make a complaint and get redress. I note that the accessible information regulation, which applies to journey information while someone is on a bus, will have a clear complaints enforcement process; why can we not have something similar for the information needed before someone gets on the bus?
The legislation that created BODS requires that the Government publish a review of the regulations at least every five years. That deadline of July 2025 approaches. Specifically, will the Minister confirm that his officials will respond to the issues raised today, and that members of the public, or their representatives, will be able to provide feedback?
Lastly, I want to question why the previous Minister gave such a rosy picture when I asked my question in October, when we all experience such difficulty in accessing real-time bus information. Does the Minister understand the very real issues that bus passengers in the north-east are experiencing? If so, will he retract and condemn the tone struck by his predecessor? It is disgraceful that, when real-time bus information has been standard in London for years, we in the north-east still do not know when and if a bus is going to turn up. It shows what Tory levelling up really means: Geordies left to shiver at bus stops in the dark, both literally and metaphorically. Does the Minister accept that we need a Labour Government to fix our broken bus services? Finally, when did he last take a bus?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Guy Opperman)
I was delighted only last week to take the 148 into work here in Westminster, having visited the local bus depot in Camberwell.
Guy Opperman
The hon. Lady has had 15 minutes. I have barely finished my first sentence, and she wants to interrupt me.
Guy Opperman
The situation is that the last bus I took was the 148 last week. [Interruption.]
Hannah Bardell (in the Chair)
Order. If Members want to intervene on the Minister, they can do so in the usual way. Shouting from a sedentary position disadvantages not only themselves but the public, who are paying attention to an important debate.
Guy Opperman
The 685 and the 122, which are run by two different organisations, are the buses I take in Northumberland.
I will try to address some of the points raised. Clearly, we accept that buses are, without a shadow of a doubt, the most popular form of public transport in our country. They are essential to our national transport system in both urban and rural areas, and they play a vital part in the economy that we all wish to see thrive. In the year ending March 2023, around 128 million passenger journeys were made by local buses in the north-east. That is an increase of 12% compared with 2022. Following the introduction of the £2 fare cap in January 2023, bus fares in England outside London fell by 6.2% between September 2022 and September 2023. I congratulate the many bus operators in the north-east that have signed up to the subsidised £2 fare cap scheme, and I hope that others can see the benefit of doing so.
I will set out the national bus strategy and the bus service improvement plan in a little detail, and will then come to the more substantial questions of the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah). In March 2021, the Government published England’s national bus strategy, setting out the vision for bus services across the country. It sets out how we will deliver better bus services for passengers through ambitious and far-reaching reform.
As a first step, the Government asked every local authority to work with their bus operators to develop the bus service improvement plan—BSIP for short. Those plans are intended to set out each local authority’s vision for improving bus services in its area and to act as a guide to help design local transport networks that are tailor-made for the communities they serve. The central aim of the national bus strategy—to get more people travelling by bus—can only be achieved by making buses a more practical and attractive option for more people. Strong local plans delivered through enhanced partnerships between local transport authorities and bus operators or franchising operators are crucial to achieving that.
The Government have invested over £4.5 billion to support and improve bus services since March 2020. We have consistently provided funding to subsidise local bus services through other routes. We have provided over £200 million a year through the bus service operators grant directly to operators to help keep fares down and maintain extensive bus networks. A further £42 million is provided to local transport authorities annually from the bus service operators grant to subsidise socially necessary bus services; of the 80 English local transport authorities outside London, Nexus receives almost £1 million a year to subsidise services in the north-east through that route. We are also providing funding to local authorities so that older and disabled people up and down the country can travel on buses for free. That is a concessionary scheme that costs around £1 billion per year.
Further funding of £2 billion has been allocated to prevent reductions to bus services following the pandemic, £1 billion of which was allocated in 2022 to help local authorities deliver their bus service improvement plans. Subsequently, the Prime Minister announced an extra £1 billion in bus service improvement plan funding—redirected from the High Speed 2 decision—to deliver improved bus services in the north and the midlands as part of Network North.
Catherine McKinnell
I thank the Minister for giving way. My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) raised some specific issues about real-time information. I hope the Minister will not talk the debate out without addressing them. The Minister will also know that there are issues across the entire north-east regional network. He should bear in mind that providing more information could hugely increase tourism. For example, tourists come to our region, explore the beautiful Northumberland coast, walk halfway up it and get a bus back; I do so regularly, but relatively recently I stood for 45 minutes in the freezing cold, waiting for a bus to turn up in Bamburgh.
Guy Opperman
I was coming to the issue of real-time information on what is called the bus open data service. The Public Service Vehicles (Accessible Information) Regulations 2023, which were formulated in collaboration with local authorities, Guide Dogs and various other disability organisations, came into force on 1 October 2023, so the idea that we are not doing anything is, with respect, wrong. When it comes to real-time information, there are apps such as Google Maps, Trainline, Apple Maps, Citymapper and Moovit in every major region across England.
Guy Opperman
I am trying to respond to the points raised by the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell). Is this a work in progress? Yes, it is, but it gives passengers control over how they travel on buses. The app helps them save time and plan their journeys.
Guy Opperman
One second. I cannot be accused of not answering the point when I am trying to answer the questions asked by both the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central and the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North.
In 2020, we launched the bus open data service to support the digital transformation of bus services. It requires all bus operators of local services in England to open up high-quality, accurate and up-to-date passenger information, including timetables, fares, tickets and vehicle location information. Those improvements are clearly designed to give a better journey experience and provide people with the information they need to plan. That is clearly in all our interests.
Chi Onwurah
But the Minister is not answering my questions, and I fear—if it is in order, I will put it in this way—that he may be unintentionally misleading the House: he said that the Google app and other apps give people the information necessary to plan and control their journeys. Google does not provide real-time bus information in the north-east. If the Minister is not aware of that, he needs to spend more time on the buses and less time answering questions without giving the facts.
Guy Opperman
Clearly, there is a five-year review that comes through in 2025, as the hon. Lady identified. All aspects will be considered. She mentioned the shortage of bus drivers. We have a plan to address that, and we are working on trying to get—
Chi Onwurah
I did not mention bus drivers once. I do not know whether the Minister is reading from a previous speech, but I did not mention a shortage of bus drivers. The debate is on real-time information in the north-east. Can the Minister possibility speak to that?
Guy Opperman
The hon. Lady criticised the fact that buses were not there at the appropriate time. There is a common problem: it is unquestionably the case that bus operators up and down the country have a driver shortage. If there was a full complement of drivers, they would be more able to fill the gaps that occur from time to time. Doing that requires more drivers, which is why there is a plan, with local jobcentres and skills bootcamps, to train them up and ensure that we have a full complement—without a shadow of a doubt. That would enable bus operators to provide more regular services and not have gaps, which unquestionably exist. Does that help in terms of real-time information? Clearly, gaps makes it difficult. I am acutely conscious that there are problems with the roll-out. The service was introduced only in the last couple of years, and it is being rolled forward and improved on a daily basis.
Let me address some of the other points raised by the hon. Lady. Franchising is a matter for the Labour party to pursue if it wishes to do so, but the evidence seems to show that it will lead to fewer services, not more. Clearly, the matter of how the Labour party is going to pay for that prospect is an interesting one. It is unquestionably the case that we want to see greater collaboration between the apps, and that it something that we are happy to do.
I am also happy to write to the hon. Lady to address any point in relation to the enforcement of the Public Service Vehicles (Accessible Information) Regulations 2023 by local bus companies. It is unquestionably the case that the regulations apply from, in the final instance, October 2026. They require the majority of local bus and coach service to incorporate audible and visible route, destination and upcoming stop announcements, which are particularly important for disabled people; we hope that they will be welcomed.
Finally, I stress that we have commissioned research to understand disabled people’s experience of bus services and the infrastructure serving them. That is important. I acknowledge and appreciate that there are ongoing problems, although they are being slowly but surely addressed by the change in the regulations and the rules. We want to ensure that all people in society have the opportunity to use a bus on a regular basis.
Question put and agreed to.