The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing the debate and on his speech. I completely understand the concerns of those working at the Baron house call centre. It is clear that job losses are a very harsh blow to the people concerned. That is one of the reasons why the coalition Government are working so hard to try to create the right conditions for growth and the creation of new jobs.
Mrs Villiers
Absolutely, in the north-east and right across the country.
Before responding to the hon. Member’s questions, I must first clarify and reiterate the relationship between the Government and the east coast main line operator. East Coast Main Line Ltd is wholly owned by Directly Operated Railways Ltd, which is, as he pointed out, owned by the Government. East Coast and DOR are companies registered under the Companies Act and operate in accordance with their own articles of association and governance. This provides a framework for the operation of the franchise as a free-standing entity in readiness for the return of the franchise to the private sector, a return that was envisaged by the previous Government as well as the current one.
Grahame M. Morris
I am slightly perplexed by that explanation and tempted to think of the situation with the banks. The Chancellor and the Prime Minister have told us that influence is being exerted on the state-owned banks to ensure that they lend to small and medium-sized enterprises. Is the Minister suggesting that such influence cannot be applied on this company with regard to jobs?
Mrs Villiers
I will explain the relationship between East Coast and the Secretary of State. The aim is for that relationship to replicate the arrangements for franchises elsewhere on the network in order to ensure that the principles of private sector operation are embraced and maintained. The reason for that approach is so that the Secretary of State is able to protect the value of the franchise and the taxpayer gets value for money when the franchise returns to the private sector.
If the Department or my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State were to start intervening in the way the operator runs East Coast, for example by overturning decisions based on commercial considerations, they might well have to answer for their decisions in front of the Public Accounts Committee. I am afraid that we do not believe it a viable option to intervene on the basis of political or non-commercial considerations, even if the Secretary of State were minded to do so.
Mr Kevan Jones
On the threat that the Public Accounts Committee is going to question what the Minister does, may I just say as a former Minister that it can question anything a Minister does? So, that argument is a complete nonsense.
Mrs Villiers
The Secretary of State is under a duty to safeguard the assets vested in the Department for Transport. The East Coast operation happens to be one of those assets, so it would be irresponsible to intervene and overturn the operator’s commercial decisions.
Chi Onwurah
I share the consternation and concern of my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) at the approach that the Minister has outlined. East Coast clearly does not have shareholders, as the other franchises do, but a shareholder could and, we hope, would respond to public pressure and outrage if decisions were made that went so against corporate responsibility, so it is only just that the Secretary of State should play a similar role.
Mrs Villiers
As I have made clear, the coalition Government’s adopted approach, which the previous Labour Government espoused, is that the franchise should be operated on a commercial basis by East Coast Ltd. It should not be the subject of political direction from the Secretary of State.
Grahame M. Morris
That is a crucial point if we are arguing about commercial decisions. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) said in an excellent speech, is there not a weight of evidence from banks, insurance companies and various private sector companies that overseas call centres are becoming less and less popular, including with customers, and that therefore any move would damage the potential to sell the franchise to the private sector? Is there not an argument that it would be beneficial to the future sale of the company to keep the call centre at least in the UK, but certainly in the north-east, where it is?
Mrs Villiers
The people best placed to make the decision about what is best for the East Coast operation are the specialist practitioners who run East Coast Ltd, not Ministers, not Members. Those practitioners are the best people to make the best decision about what is in the interests of fare payers and taxpayers. East Coast is confident that the new arrangements will deliver better services for passengers and far better value for money.
Mrs Villiers
As I will outline, should I get the opportunity, the options were fully explored in relation to continuing the relationship between the Baron house call centre and the East Coast operation, but it was found not to be viable in terms of value for money. If East Coast were to ignore value-for-money considerations, not only would the taxpayer suffer, but the fare payer would as well.
Mr Jones
Has the right hon. Lady, as a Minister, looked at the case in detail, taking into account not only the value for money for East Coast, but the cost to the taxpayer in terms of redundancy payments directly from the company and the unemployment benefit that will have to be paid in the north-east of England? Has she actually looked at the case in detail?
Mrs Villiers
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that East Coast has looked in detail at the viable option for the operation of the franchise.
Ian Mearns
The Minister is saying that the people best placed to make those decisions are the people in charge of the commercial considerations at East Coast—the very people who have overseen the running-down of the service and the provision of a very poor service along the east coast main line.
Mrs Villiers
Of course I am well aware of the performance issues on the east coast route at the moment. However, I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the improving performance of the train operator. The bulk of the problems that are currently being experienced are the result of problems with the infrastructure, over which East Coast has no control. I hope that in future, with the McNulty-style reforms, we will see shared incentives and improved performance from Network Rail. It is a mistake for the hon. Gentleman to blame those running the East Coast operation for the current performance problems. They bear a share of the responsibility, but the bulk of it, I am afraid, is Network Rail’s.
Turning to the facts of the case, National Express Services Ltd, or NXSL, was providing call centre services to National Express East Coast—NXEC—before its franchise terminated in 2009. NXSL is a separate commercial entity from NXEC and therefore was not taken over by Directly Operated Railways—DOR—at the handover. To ensure business continuity, contact centre services continued to be provided from Baron house to East Coast Ltd on a temporary basis, but two major problems stood in the way of this arrangement continuing on a longer term basis: first, the cost base of the Newcastle call centre; and secondly, the fact that telesales volumes have been falling rapidly across the rail network as customers switch to internet buying.
Mrs Villiers
I am going to continue for a moment.
In 2006, 11% of East Coast ticket sales were made over the telephone—today, that figure has fallen to just 1.9%—and 50% of East Coast advance ticket sales are now made via the internet.
Following the failure of the NXEC franchise, the services provided by the customer contact centre were reviewed by East Coast and by National Express. That review concluded that it was not commercially viable for the call centre to continue to provide telesales services to the new east coast operator.
Mrs Villiers
No, I have been very generous.
Greater flexibility was sought to enable a better response to sudden peaks in demand for call centre services—for example, as occurred over the winter. A priority for East Coast Ltd was to ensure a stable future for its contact centre services. Due diligence was conducted to establish if it was feasible for DOR to purchase NXSL and the contact centre and operate it as a subsidiary. However, this proposition was not viable because of the significant liabilities associated with the call centre. A working capital injection of approximately £2 million would have been required, plus further investment to turn around a loss-making business.
East Coast worked with National Express to see whether the Newcastle operation could be sold to a third-party expert in call centre services. Bids were received, but they faced the same purchase problems identified by East Coast and fell through when it proved impossible to agree a price. East Coast also considered whether some of the services could be provided in-house, but it is not a telephone contact centre specialist, and it concluded that it did not have the capacity or expertise to provide in-house services to the high standards that its customers wanted and that it was possible to get from a third-party supplier.
Having exhausted all possible options, East Coast concluded that the only viable way forward was to seek a new specialist supplier to provide call centre services. In parallel with National Express’s efforts to secure a third-party purchaser, East Coast initiated an Official Journal of the European Union procurement process to invite bidders to provide contact centre services. The legal requirements of that process meant that East Coast was not permitted to specify the location from which these services were to be provided. The Utilities Contracts Regulations 2006 prevent this unless a particular location is essential for the provision of the service. As the hon. Gentleman said, the outcome of the process was a contract with Intelenet UK for public telesales, group and assisted travel, ticket fulfilment and customer relations, and a further contract with Atos Origin for web support and web ticket fulfilment.
I appreciate that this process has a downside and is a real blow for those working at the National Express call centre, but there is an upside for passengers. I am advised that East Coast believes that the new contract—