Wednesday 9th November 2022
(2 years ago)
Public Bill CommitteesCarer's Leave Act 2023 Read Hansard Text
This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Carer's Leave Act 2023 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife on this important Bill and on making an excellent contribution. As I said not too long ago when my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central introduced another important Bill, it is very difficult for private Members’ Bills to get to this stage. Any hon. Member who manages that is worthy of tribute, as I am sure the Committee will agree. I also congratulate other hon. Members who have contributed today, some with their personal experiences, but all making an excellent case. The House is at its best when it comes together, and this is such an important issue.
The Opposition welcome and support the Bill. We welcome the support that it will provide for thousands of unpaid carers across the country. I pay tribute to and thank Carers UK for all its work in this area. As rightly pointed out by the hon. Member for North East Fife and by my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham, 5 million people are working as carers as well as being in full-time employment; 2.5 million people have been forced out of work because of their caring responsibilities; and more than 2 million people have been forced to reduce their hours. That is clearly an unacceptable situation.
For far too long, unpaid carers have had to rely on the goodwill of their employers or have had to take annual leave to fulfil their caring responsibilities. It is therefore right that this wrong is being addressed in the Bill. However, we lament that it has taken so long for such a Bill to appear before Parliament, given that the Government have promised to legislate on the matter for a number of years. As has been mentioned, they set out an intention for such legislation in their 2017 manifesto and again in their 2019 manifesto. It has taken five years —and only by their supporting a Back-Bench MP’s private Member’s Bill—for legislation finally to get to the Floor of the House. That should not be the case; it should have been a Government measure as part of a much broader employment Bill, which the Government have promised on a number of occasions, but it remains in a place of “in due course”, which we never see.
I am disappointed that the Bill seeks to legislate only to create a statutory right to unpaid carer’s leave, not paid carer’s leave, as Labour’s new deal for working people would do and for which we will legislate under the next Labour Government. I absolutely recognise, however, the restraint of the hon. Member for North East Fife in drafting the Bill, knowing that it must have strong support from the Government even to progress to this stage, much less to be introduced and entered on to the statute book. It has therefore been necessary to draft a Bill with a smaller scope to ensure that it is not blocked by Ministers. That is in no way to suggest that this is not a huge step in the right direction.
This is very much an enabling Bill, which will require further regulations to enact the relevant laws to benefit carers. I urge the Minister to give a timescale for and certainty about implementing such regulations. We support the Bill and we hope to see it return to the House on Report and Third Reading as soon as possible.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Kevin Hollinrake)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley.
I thank my several predecessors who have done a lot of work on this, including my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough in her time looking after the legislation. Most of all, I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife for her work on the Bill and for her explanation to the Committee of the various clauses and schedules. It was interesting to listen to her comments—reflected by those of my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport—about the fact that most people providing care, such as her husband, do not even recognise themselves as carers. Reflecting on that, we have all—or people of my age might have—been in situations where we have provided care and support on an informal basis at times. There are armies of people out there doing a wonderful job for their relatives and their dependants, with lots of other benefits for society as a result.
There were some excellent contributions from Members on both sides of the Committee. Lots of people in our constituencies are in need of such support, so it is hugely important that this piece of legislation has been introduced.
Improving carer’s leave through the Bill will mean that unpaid carers who are balancing caring alongside paid employment will have greater flexibility to take time out of work if required. On Second Reading, Members on both sides of the House, some of whom are serving on this Committee, related their personal experiences of caring. I thank them all for sharing their personal stories in heartfelt contributions. The Government recognise the important contribution made by unpaid carers and the considerable challenges they face in balancing work with their caring responsibilities. I am pleased to be here today to reiterate that the Government fully support the Bill.
The Chair
Kevin Hollinrake
That was a wonderful piece of self-promotion, but I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s comments and will address the points he made.
Numerous groups of people will benefit from the entitlement conferred by this Bill, including older workers, women and those with disabilities or long-term health conditions. Whether they are providing care or in need of care, the Bill represents an important step forward in supporting their needs and giving them a better chance of remaining in work. There is also a strong business case to be made for employers supporting unpaid carers in their workforce, and some employers already provide excellent examples of this. The hon. Member for North East Fife pointed out that there are big benefits for employers in helping employees to enjoy their workplace and strengthening the connection between employer and employee. Many employers already provide carers’ rights without needing legislation requiring them to do so.
As the hon. Lady set out, the Bill is straightforward. The detail of the entitlement is contained in the schedule. The clauses and schedule give the Secretary of State new powers to make regulations entitling an employee to be absent from work in order to provide or arrange care for a dependant with a long-term care need. I will briefly explain the Government’s policy and how the regulations will be used, which was set out in the Government’s response to the consultation on carer’s leave published in September 2021.
Eligible employees will be entitled to one week of unpaid leave per year. This will be available to take flexibly, in single or half-days, to best meet the needs of unpaid carers. Reference is made in the Bill to regulations that in particular provide that an employer cannot require an employee to supply evidence in relation to a request for leave. I agree that employees should not be required to provide evidence to demonstrate their eligibility to take carer’s leave, and this will be reflected in the regulations.
The Bill provides a power to make regulations relating to notices and other procedures. Our position, set out in the Government response to the consultation, is that employees making a request to take carer’s leave should give notice to their employer. Our policy is to align the notice provision with that for annual leave—twice the duration of leave requested, plus one day, subject to a minimum of three days’ notice. The regulations will also allow employers to postpone but not deny a leave request.
I reiterate the Government’s support or the Bill, and again thank the hon. Member for North East Fife for her work in getting it to this stage. I agree that clauses 1 to 3 and parts 1 and 2 of the schedule should stand part of the Bill.
To respond to some of the comments made, the hon. Member for Stockton North talked about making the leave paid. I understand his view, but point out that this is a minimum entitlement, which sends a signal to employers who are currently not demonstrating that degree of compassion to people in need. I think many employees would provide paid leave as a matter of course. One benefit of the leave being unpaid is that it gives more flexibility about how that leave can be taken, including half-days and single days.
I would point out—I think the hon. Member for Rotherham reflected on this—the cost to business. As set out in the explanatory notes, the cost to businesses is £4.7 million in set-up costs and then £40 million per annum to provide the leave. As she said, businesses are facing a pretty hard time right now and we have to be cognisant of the pressures they are under. If businesses do not pay for this, the cost would fall on taxpayers, who are also having a pretty hard time right now, but I think the Bill strikes the right balance between flexibility and affordability.
The hon. Member for Rotherham also pointed out that there are savings for all of us in the legislation. It is good for society, good for the taxpayer, good for businesses, and it is obviously good for people in need of care.
The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Bradford East, pointed out that the legislation has taken time to come forward, which is a fair point. We did commit to it in our 2019 manifesto—he was right to say that—but we needed to consult on these matters because other people are affected, including employers. The consultation finished in 2021. It talked about wider employment measures, and we are bringing forward various pieces of legislation. Only last week I sat on the Protection from Redundancy (Pregnancy and Family Leave) Bill Committee with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central. We have the Employment Relations (Flexible Working) Bill, the Neonatal Care (Leave and Pay) Bill, and the Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill, so there is a raft of legislation we are supporting that will improve terms and conditions for employees.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye spoke touchingly of her personal experience of looking after her father in very difficult circumstances. I think many of us can share her emotions. The hon. Member for Sheffield Central talked about the incredible work that younger carers do and the impacts of that both socially and in education. He made a very fair point because that is another area that we need to look at in greater detail.
The Government continue to support measures to provide unpaid carers in work with much-needed flexibility to manage their caring responsibilities alongside remaining in work. Supporting the Bill is in line with our ongoing commitment to support workers and build a high-skilled, high-productivity, high-wage economy. I look forward to continuing to work with the hon. Member for North East Fife to support the passage of the Bill. I conclude by thanking the hon. Member for North Antrim for his excellent chairing of today’s Committee.